Anyone using the 30cal. 225's or 230's? Need Info

jrob300

jrob300

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 7, 2009
2,492
6
Montana
#1
Hornady 225 gr BTHP
Berger 230 gr Tactical Hybrid OTM
Berger 230 gr Target Hybrid

<span style="font-weight: bold">I changed the title to hopefully get a little more response.</span>

I started to ask this question in the Hornady BTHP thread and realized that a separate thread would be more productive.

Looking for real world ELR data on these three bullets (for the uninitiated there are *two* Berger 230 Hybrids. OTM Tactical, G1 .711, G7 .364, and the Target G1 .743, G7 .380).

My son is having a 30" 300WM built by Mike Bush @ BlackOps Precision. The sole purpose of this rifle is to hit steel as far away as possible with a 300WM. We are in the data collection phase of having a custom reamer built. Looking for any and all data (even if from a different cartridge)available on these three projectiles. Accuracy. Load data. Ease of load development. Transition through transonic. Maximum range. Etc. All the stuff you would want to know...

We will be disappointed if this rifle is not capable of repeatable hits on steel at 2500+ yds.

Not looking for naysayers or shit disturbers. You will be reported to the mods immediately. If you haven't shot extensively over at least a mile with one or more of these bullets, this is probably the wrong thread for you. Looking purely for data, facts, and anything helpful towards the stated goal.

Thanks in advance for your help.

John
 
#2
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Looking for real world ELR data on these three bullets (for the uninitiated there are *two* Berger 230 Hybrids. OTM Tactical, G1 .771, G7 .364, and the Target G1 .743, G7 .380).

John </div></div>
John,
Not trying to shit stir but the B.C. numbers above look odd.
According to the numbers above, the target bullet has a higher G7 B.C. but the OTM has a higher G1 B.C.?????
Typo?
 
#3
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wadcutter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Looking for real world ELR data on these three bullets (for the uninitiated there are *two* Berger 230 Hybrids. OTM Tactical, G1 .771, G7 .364, and the Target G1 .743, G7 .380).

John </div></div>
John,
Not trying to shit stir but the B.C. numbers above look odd.
According to the numbers above, the target bullet has a higher G7 B.C. but the OTM has a higher G1 B.C.?????
Typo? </div></div>

Yup... typo. Good catch. The OTM Tactical G1 is .711.

Thanks.

John
 
#5
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nay say

Nay say

Shit stirr
Shit stirr...
</div></div>

I'm tellin' my mommy
cry.gif


Thanks, Josh... We won't know if we don't try. With the small but encouraging amount of data we have with my short barreled 300 with the 208's at nearly 2300, I can't imagine 200 more yards is going to be anything more than an elevation challenge for the sighting system, but we shall see.
wink.gif
This is of course predicated on the assumption that these bullets retain their composure while going transonic.

John
 
#7
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

No I haven't. We just reconfigured it back in the OEM stock with a light hunting scope for deer/elk season for one of my twins to use, so it's outta commission for a bit, but maybe after hunting season I'll load some up to see what kind of velocity I can get. When I ran the math before using QL estimates, it appeared that the short barrel made best use of the 208's, but we'll have to try the heavies to know for sure.

Let me know how you like that rifle.

John
 
#11
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Been gone hunting for a few weeks, & just found this thread. I have had the Hor 225's out to 2K a few times with repaetable results.
300Wm
28" Kreiger 1:10"
WW brass
WLRM
74.1 gr H-1000 gives 2840 fps.
100 yd 5 rnd group measures .192"
The bullet is supersonic to about 1600+/- @ my ASL, & goes past that with ease, & on target.
I don't have my book right now, so I can't get any hard data, but IIRC I was using 85 moa for 1950yd from a 100 yd zero.
That was @ a DA of about 2000', but don't quote me. I can give the actual data when I get back from elk season.
 
#12
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

BW,

You were one of the guys I figured would respond. Thanks for the info. I guessed that of the three new heavy .30's, the Hornady had the best chance of going transonic with grace.

How much freebore are you running in your chamber, how far are you jumping/what is your COAL for that load? Also, have you had a chance to try either of the 230's and compare them to the 225's?

Thanks again,

John
 
#13
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

I have a short chamber. My load is only 2.772" to the ogive which is .007" from the lands. I do a little crunching when I seat the bullets, & I have to use a long drop tube, but I have had great results with this load.
I have not tried the Bergers.(I won't pay $50.00/box when I can get the same for $30.00)
I'm guessing that the Bergers might have a small edge in overall performance, but for the money you can't beat the hornady's. I have also had to find my own BC, as the published one is grossly underestimated. I tried the posted BC of .670 with my MV, & was hitting almost 2 feet high @ 700yd. I'm now using the .711 BC of the Bergers, & it has been right on.
 
#14
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

The throat on my current chamber is about .100" longer than yours and the 225 is *still* in the case. Interesting feedback about the BC on the Hornadys.

Thanks,

John
 
#15
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Yeah the B.C. Can't be right. Neither I nor anyone I have heard from has been able to use the posted B.C. Of .670. They have all needed better for the solution to work.
 
#16
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

John, My son has been shooting the 230 Bergers from his Win Mag with great results. We only tested to 1000 yards so far as this is primaraly a hunting rifle, but the G1 BC of .711 seems to be good with a MV of 2775 fps. He took antelope in WY at 734 yards and 600 yards with good placement of first shots and terminal preformance was good as well.

Jeff
 
#17
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

I haven't shot the Bergers but finally got a load for the 225 Hornadys--77 gns Retumbo/Fed gmm primer/Win brass-in the lands about .005. Shot 4 shots at 940 yds-- max on our range-1.5 inch vertcal and 6 inch horizontal. The wind was gusting 10-20 mph all day. Been using H1000 with mediocre results and was about to go back to Berger 210s but tried the Retumbo and the results are pretty decent considering the wind. May have to get some of the Bergers to see how they compare. I will shoot the 225s again on a calmer day to really see how they do but so far impressed with this load.
 
#18
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Jeff, Phoneman,

Thanks for the info. Phoneman, be interesting to see if you run into pressure issues with Retumbo as others have, including Jeff IIRC:

http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2824546#Post2824546

This was a little discouraging as we were hoping to get a little more velocity from Retumbo in the 30" barrel than with H1000, but if this is a common occurrence, we'll stick with what we know and H1000 has been perfect so far in my WM.

Jeff, hope to get out there when this build is complete and play with you guys on the big boy range.

John
 
#19
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

jrob-this gun has a 26 inch fluted Hart barrell with a vais brake and the speed looked to be around 2875-2900 without any pressure. I actually started with 78 gns which put it over 2900 consistenly with only slight pressure. I tried H1000 at 77 grns down to 74 gns with good speed and good groups at 940 with the 74 grn load but even that load would have the erratic flyer 3-6 inches above the group. I'm hoping this load holds up as I intentionally bought this gun to shoot the 225s.
 
#20
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phoneman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> jrob-this gun has a 26 inch fluted Hart barrell with a vais brake and the speed looked to be around 2875-2900 without any pressure. I actually started with 78 gns which put it over 2900 consistenly with only slight pressure. I tried H1000 at 77 grns down to 74 gns with good speed and good groups at 940 with the 74 grn load but even that load would have the erratic flyer 3-6 inches above the group. I'm hoping this load holds up as I intentionally bought this gun to shoot the 225s. </div></div>

Phoneman, sorry if I missed this , but what caliber is your rifle chambered in?
Thanks
Jeff
 
#22
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phoneman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 300 win mag </div></div>

Thank you, and wow, those are some smokin velocoities with 225 / 230's, especially from a 26". They are even higher than we can safely get from a 28" with a 210 Berger and H-1000, even up here at 4200' alt.

Jeff
 
#23
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phoneman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 300 win mag </div></div>

Thank you, and wow, those are some smokin velocoities with 225 / 230's, especially from a 26". They are even higher than we can safely get from a 28" with a 210 Berger and H-1000, even up here at 4200' alt.

Jeff </div></div>

One of my shooting partners is getting 2950 from 208's with his 26", but it's a pretty hot load. We saw pressure immediately if we went any higher. But COAL is 3.60".

Phoneman, what is your COAL for that load? Is that chamber throated long?

John
 
#24
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Well, I have a meeting Wednesday AM with Mike to discuss the chamber reamer and I keep waffling back and forth on how to proceed. I thought I'd get some thoughts from you guys, pros v. cons.

I was originally inclined to set this chamber up for the 230 Target Hybrid as it has the best BC. By that I mean cut the throat long enough that the top of the BT is even with the bottom of the neck to maximize powder capacity and get the bullet out of the powder column. VERY LONG. But if I do that it will shove the Hornady 225 back into the case, somewhat neutering maximum performance from that bullet. The Hornady is a LOT cheaper and they have a rep of going transonic very well. Jury is still out on the 230 TH's. But if I optimize for the 225 (even LONGER throat), then either of the 230 Bergers is going to have a substantial jump. How much exactly I don't know as I left the bullets with Mike.

FWIW, the throat on my current WM is cut so that a 208 AMAX round is 3.665 @ .020" off the lands. If I load rds. with the Berger they are over .100" further into the case and the 225 is even further. A standard reamer would really hamper all of these heavy bullets.

Thoughts? Comments?

I'm sure that Mike will have some wisdom in that meeting that will be compelling, but I'd also like to have this fully thought through before I walk in the door.

John
 
#25
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

FWIW
BC on the 230 Hornady at Std atmosphere is G1.668 G7.336 These are hard accurate numbers.
I would highly recommend using the G7 function past 1K. Much more accurate. G1 drag function shouldn't even be in the conversation.
 
#26
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Jrob--I'm not sure what the oal ended up being as I'm not where I can get to my book. I was a little surprised at the speed also and I'm not entirely positive we were getting truthful numbers from the chrono we were using even though we have checked this chrono against an oehler and it tested reliable every time. I do know it hit a lot higher than the load with H1000 using the same zero and the same dope. A really long throat would be nice as there is a lot of bullet way down in the case. I'll be shooting this load again this weekend so I get to really see if it holds up. I haven't used Retumbo before so I'm interested how it does in temp changes. Those 225s knock the snot out our plate hanging at 500--it's 18x24 and probably weighs 100 lbs or more.
 
#27
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW
I would highly recommend using the G7 function past 1K. Much more accurate. G1 drag function shouldn't even be in the conversation.
</div></div>

I agree the G7 is the best choice past 1000. But if you are going to send them way out there, like we did the last time we shot jrob, I have found multiple stepped velocity limited BC's are the way to go. In this instance I have found good results with either G1 or G7 BC's. It is a commitment to gather good solid data, at like or near like field conditions, but once you have it you can then model a curve that is spot on to .25 or .5 moa. Then first round hits become a reality even at 2000. Not saying every time, but often enough to make you smile.

Jeff
 
#28
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

That's interesting stuff, Jeff. Are you referring to the different G1's for different speed ranges, like the data Sierra gives and then you track velocities at ranges to plot elevation? I thought that was the whole purpose of G7? Or did I not understand that? Are "Litz's numbers" in JBM essentially the same thing you're doing?
 
#29
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Jeff

My opinion, and we all have one based on our own experiences and what works for us, is based on doppler radar data. Actual vs calculated velocities varied greatly. Using the G1 function velocities were off 80-90 FPS @1500M. Take that on out past 2K and imagine the results.Using the G7 function the difference was down in the 10 FPS range. Basically nothing with all the other factors. Now with that sorted out we can fine tune the other side of the data need to get first round hits at distance. That's where each of us through our experiences make adjustments on the fly. I started this ELR stuff back in the mid 90's. We had one ballistic program and one scope to work with until NF came out with there 5.5-22.
 
#30
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW
I would highly recommend using the G7 function past 1K. Much more accurate. G1 drag function shouldn't even be in the conversation.
</div></div>

I agree the G7 is the best choice past 1000. But if you are going to send them way out there, like we did the last time we shot jrob, I have found multiple stepped velocity limited BC's are the way to go. In this instance I have found good results with either G1 or G7 BC's. It is a commitment to gather good solid data, at like or near like field conditions, but once you have it you can then model a curve that is spot on to .25 or .5 moa. Then first round hits become a reality even at 2000. Not saying every time, but often enough to make you smile.

Jeff </div></div>

Be careful there Broz, I though they were gonna lynch me over on the LRH site when I claimed that actually shooting the rifle is required. Predictive computations are great and the basis for what we do at ELR but without the best possible data it cannot be perfect. I guess I should not have sand bagged by with holding that I was using stepped BCs, even though I hinted at it very strongly. In fact I hinted so strongly I was very surprised that some of the experts could ignore statements like "my starting BC." or "my first BC". That experience let me know I should not even discuss BCs, especially when under the influence of strong pain killers, and this will be my only post on the subject, I hope.

Truth be told IMO BCs unless over doppler are going to be very difficult to ascertain because so many things can mask and maybe even vary BC errors. Conversely, so many things can lead you to believe that correct BCs are in error. In the end it still boils down to me as just some numbers I feed a program to make it's predictions closely match my actual drop date collected from shooting the rifle. I will leave it to the engineers to do those things beyond my reasoning.
 
#31
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Broz said:
Dave Tooley said:
FWIW
In the end it still boils down to me as just some numbers I feed a program to make it's predictions closely match my actual drop date collected from shooting the rifle. I will leave it to the engineers to do those things beyond my reasoning. </div></div>

Eddybo, I will never claim to be an intelligent person, or even close to being good at math. But what I will claim is to shoot my rifles alot and much of that is beyond 1000 yards. So I guess what I did could be refered to as "tuning for Dummies" I simply found a spot on the ranch here where there was a mile of fence line on a flat plane. This way I didn't have to worry about the programs ability to dope up or down hill. Then I set up a 4'x 4' target with a 3" orange dot for point of aim. I shot 3, 3 shot groups at 300, 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1450, 1550, 1650, and 1750 yards. All groups were shot in good field conditions when wind was low or non detectable. If a group under 1500 was not under .5 moa it was discarded and also if it was more than .5 moa high or low it was re-shot to get what I call a "spot on" groups and dial in for elevation at that distance. 1 moa was used from 1500 on out. Last group at 1750 was 10". As you could imagine this took time and some dedication. Then I shot aditional groups at different targets at 1900 and 2005 yards. I did my best to do it on flat ground again and with similar field conditions. Once I had all my data logged, I spent a few evenings ploting the results with both G1 and G7 BC's. I found multiple stepped BC's with a minimum velocity limit were needed to get all drops "spot on" with in .25 moa, at all distances. I seen little difference in using G1 or G7 BC's. But I did use G7 to get it corrected. That said I will not argue if only one velocity and BC is to be used the G7 is a better choice. But it is limited by distance. I will also add I had some help and input from a well know engineer while I worked this out. Now, again this may be a backwoods way of doing this, and I am not an expert. But I doubt anyone would want to give me a cold bore shot at their new 42" plazma TV in good conditions. But who knows, I could easily miss as the human error is still there.

For what it's worth,

Jeff
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
#32
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I though they were gonna lynch me over on the LRH site </div></div>

The only place I find more entertaining than "Beyond 1000 yds." If I'm feeling down I read over there for a bit for a good laugh, if I can't get it here.
wink.gif


John
 
#33
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's interesting stuff, Jeff. Are you referring to the different G1's for different speed ranges, like the data Sierra gives and then you track velocities at ranges to plot elevation? I thought that was the whole purpose of G7? Or did I not understand that? Are "Litz's numbers" in JBM essentially the same thing you're doing? </div></div>

jrob300, Again, this is just my personal method and what I have been able to make work for me when all the internet posts and proven principals didn't. Remember, I am a hunter that shoots alot. Not a shooter that hunts, so this is why first round dope to within .25 moa is so important to me. I want the first hit as close to point of aim as I can get within the error limits of my rifle, ammo and my ability.

But yes, the BC of a bullet has to change with velocity. Most shooters will be fine with a single G7 BC and a muzzle velocity. But when a nut like me decides to push the envelope past ,lets say 1200 yards, and they want a dial up within .25 moa they need to work it out to a finer proven dope.

I also believe that all rifles are different just like bullets and loads. No one can give this to you for your rifle. It needs to be proven and reproven. Not on a rock either, on paper where actual hits can be measured on a vertical target to point of aim and the errors of the dope are easy to measure.

Jeff
 
#34
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Most shooters will be fine with a single G7 BC and a muzzle velocity. But when a nut like me decides to push the envelope past ,lets say 1200 yards, and they want a dial up within .25 moa they need to work it out to a finer proven dope.

</div></div>

I think that is the gist of the matter.
 
#35
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Dummy round with the 225 Hornady (next to one of my 208 Amax ELR rounds, which is .020" off the lands in my rifle) off to have the reamer cut. Both rounds are single-feed only.

IMG_0772-1.jpg


We were going to evaluate the Hornady 225 vs. the Berger 230 Target Hybrid and make a decision on reamer design based on what we saw, but Berger made my decision quite simple by not following through with the promised sample.

John
 
#36
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We were going to evaluate the Hornady 225 vs. the Berger 230 Target Hybrid and make a decision on reamer design based on what we saw, but Berger made my decision quite simple by not following through with the promised sample.

John </div></div>

John, Just a thought. But judging from what I have seen from both the 300 Berger Hybrid and now what we have seen from the 230 Hybrids, I would maybe reconsider. I can't tell you a thing about the Hornadays and they might be a great bullet. But I can tell you we are very happy with the Bergers. I would not let one sample bullet possibly keep me from having the best.

Jeff
 
#37
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Jeff,

Steve123 is sending me one. If we can make a small adjustment, I'd rather be able to do both. His preliminary report at 2200 yds. was not encouraging though. Have you shot them transonic?

John
 
#38
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

The 230's I have not. But did with the 300 Hybrids and were very encouraged. My son is coming up to hunt soon, maybe we will slip over to our spot and send some afar.

Jeff
 
#39
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Jeff,

Are you guys shooting the 230 Tactical OTM Hybrids or the 230 Target Hybrids?

I am more than a little curious about why Berger would go to the trouble of releasing two bullets that are different, but so close in design. I understand that one was designed for mag tolerant use, but I would think that transonic stability would be mandatory for the Target Hybrid or the additional BC would be of little practical consequence.

John
 
#40
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff,

Are you guys shooting the 230 Tactical OTM Hybrids or the 230 Target Hybrids?

I am more than a little curious about why Berger would go to the trouble of releasing two bullets that are different, but so close in design. I understand that one was designed for mag tolerant use, but I would think that transonic stability would be mandatory for the Target Hybrid or the additional BC would be of little practical consequence.

John </div></div>

I got to thinking about shooting at 2200Y with the 230 HB's. There were some guys shooting some 338 Edges with 285 Hornady's that weren't having much,if any more success hitting the same plate that day(I think?). I'll see if I can get a hold of them and ask how they did ?
 
#41
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Yeah, that <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">was </span></span>only one data point. Not conclusive by any means. Looking forward to your 2400 yd. results.

John
 
#42
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am more than a little curious about why Berger would go to the trouble of releasing two bullets that are different, but so close in design. I understand that one was designed for mag tolerant use, but I would think that transonic stability would be mandatory for the Target Hybrid or the additional BC would be of little practical consequence.</div></div>

This might be of interest to you regarding that question:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
.30 Cal 185 gr Juggernaut OTM Tactical (designed as a <span style="text-decoration: underline">transonic-stable</span> option for the 300 Win Mag.)
.30 Cal 230 gr Hybrid OTM Tactical (designed as a <span style="text-decoration: underline">supersonic</span> option for the 300 Win Mag.)
</div></div>

...from the Daily Bulletin over @ AccurateShooter.com
 
#44
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

Don't forget altitude lets some bullets slip transonic smoothly, that wouldn't make the transit near sea-level.

In other words, you don't know for sure what a bullet can do, until you try it in your local conditions.
 
#45
Re: 225 Hornady BTHP vs. Berger's 230 Hybrids (both)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff,

Are you guys shooting the 230 Tactical OTM Hybrids or the 230 Target Hybrids?

I am more than a little curious about why Berger would go to the trouble of releasing two bullets that are different, but so close in design. I understand that one was designed for mag tolerant use, but I would think that transonic stability would be mandatory for the Target Hybrid or the additional BC would be of little practical consequence.

John </div></div>

I got to thinking about shooting at 2200Y with the 230 HB's. There were some guys shooting some 338 Edges with 285 Hornady's that weren't having much,if any more success hitting the same plate that day(I think?). I'll see if I can get a hold of them and ask how they did ? </div></div>

It turns out that they were having trouble hitting the plate on Sunday when I was trying but the day before they were doing well with the 285's in less wind.Like 4-5 hits out of ten. We shoot off the edge of a bluff with the wind coming at us from 1-4 o'clock most of the time. I think it throws off the vertical when the wind is up.
 
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