Bergara sucks ass, buyer beware.
- Thread starter redneckbmxer24
- Start date
I'm familiar with all of those. I didn't have to do the homework though, my girlfriend who's a PE did it for me. Is she wrong too?
Or do you just need me to better explain to you how that works with the screws CLAMPING the rail down and COMPRESSING the rail on the pad and action?
When you run a bronze brush through the bore, do you feel any rough areas or areas of greater resistance or is it smooth and perfectly uniform from chamber to crown?
All I have is that bergara strikes me as the MIMber of the rifle world. Some guys fall for, and pay for the big marketing budgets pushing mediocre guns at higher prices and then are feverishly defensive of their purchases. If you're happy that's all that matters. If you're not, return it and use your money to buy higher quality instead of paying for the marketing bullshit.
Ok. And to be clear there is about 0.06” of jbWeld as a “spacer” to epoxy the forward section base down? Or do I have reading comprehension issues?
Once you get all of the copper out which is a process in itself it's smooth. Tight fitting patches also go down the bore very smooth once clean.
I was mistaken on that, the gap measured .0365" with the rear of the base snugged down. JB Kwik was used as it has a higher compression strength.
Have not read all the replies but I have a 18" premier in 308 that has been flawless, got it on sale for $1100. Also have a buddy that has a B-14 that has been the same. Mine is 5 years old, his is about 3. Both shoot under a 1" all day.
I'll take that duck gun standing overwatch for those Spanish rifles.
Maybe my source is not as good?
Website lists:
JB Weld tensile strength 5020 PSI
KwikWeld tensile strength 3127 PSI
And I'm the one that needs to go do my homework on the differences between compression strength, tensile strength, and shear strength.
Jesus christ.
Are you guys fucking with me with these types of replies, or is this for real?
Mike was just one of the guys who shot HardRock with us, and was on here before scout. His rodeos are his, not mine. I'm not digging a hole, court room facts, are just that. In fact I hope you do go to court to try and recoup what you say you have standing in.
You said tensile strength was like 9000 PSI.
I’m seeing that tensile strength is about 1/3 of what you claimed. And weaker than the original weld.
Either way I don’t think the JBWeld is the problem. I think I see the problem…
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Facts aren't applicable here, get with the program dammit
JB weld is "steel reinforced". Says "steel" right on the black tube. That's what makes it soooo gooooood.
I've had my round stock machined by a beaver many thousands of times. Some times are better than others, but I never saw a need to complain.
Holeee fuck, glad this is in the pit, more hilarity for all
Looks like you have three options: fight with Bergara, cryo the barreled action, or rebarrel. The last one is a proven winner. The first one will give you a stroke. The middle one might work and is cheap, especially since you think it’s a stress issue.
I did?
Here's the post you quoted to refresh your memory:
I know this not to be the issue based on the compression strength of the pad, but let’s just assume for a moment that this is indeed causing the accuracy problems.
So I’ll ask you too, when the receiver is so out of spec that there has to be bedding built up to not warp the rail and in turn not bend the scope tube and fuck up mounting, what are you supposed to do? This has been common practice for decades and as I’ve said I’ve done it hundreds of times without issue.
Are you expected to have a gunsmith make a custom mount for a rifle that’s advertised as being compatible with R700 bases?
Even if you want to look at it from that angle it still points back to the fucking rifle being defective.
Back to the “issue” of the bedding pad on the front of the rail that has over 9000psi of compression strength, those two little 6-48 screws in the front have about 800psi of clamping force combined. I know it’s probably hard for your little brain to understand how both of these work but if you try really hard you might understand how those screws giving in some way (especially from stress from pulling the rail down and NOT being bedded) would cause an issue long before the bedding pad. Those little screws are the standard on R700’s and a lot of other rifles and other than in severe circumstances quite clearly are enough. Not to mention that front pad is also bonded to the action and has over 3100psi of tensile strength holding it together, or nearly 4 times the strength of those two little screws.
So please tell me more about how that bedding pad is causing my problems
So I'll ask again. Are you fucking with me or are you for real?
Yes you were
I use metal infused epoxies almost everyday, inspection and engineering would balk at a .0365" bond line, they want to see a single layer at .006"
Would you accept a custom rifle that the front of the receiver was that far out of spec.
In fact, does anyone have a 700/Clone/Bergara drawing?
I just spent an hour reading through this fucker waiting for it to ho to Legendary Status. So close, yet so far. Refund please!
Perhaps you should take your own advice and get back to me since you clearly don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
There's simply no way to achieve .006" fitment across applications like this. If you take a bunch of R700's and several high quality bases you'll see an average of .010-.020" gap under the rear of the rail. I can't remember mounting a single rail on a R700 that didn't have a gap. Add into that the tolerances and specs of all the different actions that take R700 stuff and then the different rail manufacturers...
This isn't a custom rifle and that would never be acceptable on one. On what's really a low-mid grade factory rifle I can forgive stuff like that because I've seen enough of the same problem and remedied them all with positive outcomes that it's not of concern to me. It's not worth it to try to get the manufacturer to do something about that when they'll just blame it on the aftermarket rail and say their rifle is fine. Also like the excessive paint buildup in the inlet wasn't of concern because I can fix that too. Should I have to? Probably not but that's the way it is in the world of consumer goods making shit as cheap as possible for max profit. You either pay the price for top shelf shit or buy cheaper stuff with the understanding that it's probably not going to be perfect and hope you at least get a polishable turd.
You just negated the ranting argument of your entire thread with this one post. Polish your turd and move on to top shelf - as you said, that's the way it is in the world of consumer goods.
If I couldn’t have bought a rail that actually fit the action, then I would have manufactured my own pic rail that actually fit, from scratch, from stress relieved bar stock.
Would have re drilled and tapped the action to take larger screws also.
And would not have relied on a girlfriend for info.
Then I might have done homework on what replacement barrel I would get.
Serious question, did you see the build of paint on the inlet under the action that I have read about several times in researching this problem?
I haven't had a factory 700/7 action in years, I do have quite a few Defiance actions on builds and plenty of X-Bolts. I bed every single picatinny rail or now my favorite mounts for the lightweight X-Bolt rifles, Warne 2 piece and I don't see this issue manifest itself.
I also think a .010" + gap is excessive, but I don't have the experience to say verbatim it is, I only know what I have personal experience with. I know that I wouldn't accept that and I damn sure would not accept a .036" + gap.
I would like to see you buy a Bergara picatinny rail and give it a go, would eliminate the issue and at least mimic the conditions under which Bergara tested the rifle.
I haven't had a factory 700/7 action in years, I do have quite a few Defiance actions on builds and plenty of X-Bolts. I bed every single picatinny rail or now my favorite mounts for the lightweight X-Bolt rifles, Warne 2 piece and I don't see this issue manifest itself.
I also think a .010" + gap is excessive, but I don't have the experience to say verbatim it is, I only know what I have personal experience with. I know that I wouldn't accept that and I damn sure would not accept a .036" + gap.
I would like to see you buy a Bergara picatinny rail and give it a go, would eliminate the issue and at least mimic the conditions under which Bergara tested the rifle.
So I’m your world it’s ok for a rifle guaranteed to shoot MOA to not. I didn’t negate a fucking thing, if a rifle has an accuracy guarantee it should meet it. Minor fitment issues here and there are completely irrelevant to that.
Totally unreasonable to have to machine a custom fit rail to an action advertised to work with standard R700 stuff. Rebarreling a $900 factory rifle is also retarded when you can buy an Origin or CDG for that.
It’s quite handy having a girlfriend that’s a PE at times. You’re clearly not an engineer either.
The paint buildup has been covered at least a few times. How many times do I need to repeat the same shit for people to still not get it?
If you think a $300-$400 custom fit rail on a rifle advertised to accept R700 rails and rebarreling a factory rifle that has an MOA guarantee that it won't meet is the answer or even remotely logical then you're a bigger idiot than I previously thought.
Your are right, I have never heard of anyone rebarreling an action. Nope. Not common at all.
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Maybe if your girlfriend is so awesome in all this you can hold her purse so she can show you how to shoot it
He is the one that fixes the engineers drawing to actually be able to make said thing.
I have had to bed about 30% of the remington 700 bases I have seen. That would be 3 out 10. 3 warped actions out of 10 for me. Yes, base bedding or actions or bases that need it are pretty common.
So, rebarrel a rifle that won't shoot with a 1moa guarantee....that about as stupid as expecting to buy it cheap.
You think it's fine hecouldgoalltheway buy if for brand new price. Show us how good it shoots. Put your money where mouth is.
I am surprised to see a legitimate complaint moved to the pit rather than banning the jack asses fucking around in the wrong section.
I've never bedded one in my life. I own a dozen as a write this. I've owned several dozen. It's an unnecessary step for any rifle I've ever owned. But hey, if it helps you, rock on. To pretend he's done hundreds is bullshit. Did he pay you to come here and defend him, or is there another reason? Maybe you're just bored.
If he sent it in, they sent it back saying it shot less than MOA, what else is there to do other than sell it or rebuild it to something that shoots to his satisfaction? Going to small claims court will cause more pain and hassle in time, money and emotional baggage than just taking a turd and making it what is wanted. If Bergara kept records and can show that it did indeed shoot to inside MOA, regardless of what another gunsmith says, its going to be a losing battle that will only cause more consternation on the OP's part. The best outcome is that they refund his money without any further issue, but they could give him a replacement and down the hole he goes again, making a fourth Bergara and another emotional rollercoaster.
You may think my post is nothing more than hot air - it isn't. I'm actually trying to give some advice that reduces pain and maybe some small degree of satisfaction after the dust settles with a rifle that he finds acceptable. Others have done the same. But each person has to find the limits of the battles they chose to fight and deal with all the price that comes with it, at least that's the path of a mature individual.
Ummmm, exactly what he is doing take it a qualified Smith and take them to small claims.
Unfortunately instead of waiting for the results people decided to shit up the thread for 6 pages like a bunch of jack asses.
Ownership doest imply competence. As far as I know you couldn't find your ass with both hands.
So 2k for his rifle correct. You got pay pal ready?
I have no dog in this fight, recently bought a 22 Bergara HMR. That’s the only reason I even looked at this thread.
But…. I gotta know, how the Fug did you release JB weld with a damn heat gun?
I’ve used JB weld in some places that get pretty damn hot. It does not come off.
But…. I gotta know, how the Fug did you release JB weld with a damn heat gun?
I’ve used JB weld in some places that get pretty damn hot. It does not come off.
A lot of heat guns will do 1000+ degrees. Not sure where you used it, but not a lot of stuff gets that hot.
Given your level of intelligence I’m not the least bit surprised that you wouldn’t realize such an issue if it had horns and flashing lights.
Just because you can’t fathom someone owning hundreds of guns and setting up lots of guns for people doesn’t make it bullshit. It just means you’re small time and that’s ok, but at least pull your head out of your ass and realize that there’s more than just your little world.
I don’t even know that guy and he doesn’t know me, but that’s an interesting conclusion that you come to when someone has an opposing view to yours because they’re not a fucking idiot.
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