British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

#101
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NachtKracht</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sandwarrior,

there is a HUGE difference between a standard 338lm with a 250 grain scenar which the Brits are using, or a 408 with a 419 grain cnc bullit...
And the BC difference is just the small part; .675 compared to the .915 or more (depending on the bullit).

The AWM really is a great weapon system, but in its own range.

If someone is saying he can hit 3 cans of coke at 300m with 3 consecutive shots out of a 9mm MP5 he would be called a damned liar. If the same person would say the same thing but with a 308 bolt action (any half moa rifle) than every body would go...hm, yeah, that might be do-able.

Apples and peers.

NK.</div></div>



Nachtkracht,

I'm fully aware of the difference in ballistic capabilities of the AI 8.59mm that the British sniper was using and the .408 Cheytac and .416 Barrett. The Lapua bullets that I've shot do tend to remain on course better than than most I've fired through the trans-sonic range. I didn't believe it very much until I got to go see it first hand. I'm saying that with an accurate rifle it's possible. I also said there is a whole helluva lot of luck involved.

And, FWIW, the MP5's that I shot when I was in, with a good optic attached, could hit a pop can 3-for3 if the right shooter was involved from a prone/bench supported firing position. And if you can't hit a pop can 3-for-3 @ 300 with a .308 you need to quit calling yourself a serious shooter.

Edit:

BTW, your spelling/inability to think sucks... The phrase is apples and oranges not pears. You spell it p-e-a-r not p-e-e-r.

Edit II:

Here's another one for ya. Why don't you try filling out your profile before addressing me.
 
#102
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, your spelling/inability to think sucks...</div></div>

You might be justified in your criticism if English is the poster's native language. I suspect that it's not.
 
#103
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, your spelling/inability to think sucks...</div></div>

You might be justified in your criticism if English is the poster's native language. I suspect that it's not.
</div></div>

Thus the subsequent "Edit II"
 
#104
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchduck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One shot luck.


THREE SHOTS B.S. </div></div>

Roger that!
Here is a link to the British Sniper School just to show that there is nothing special about their training in comparison to any other school you might have to go to.

One shot @ TWO THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED FOUR meters raises eye brow.

Two shots @ TWO THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED FOUR meters; bs...

Three shots @ TWO THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED FOUR mters; alot of bs...


</div></div>

I will agree that I don't think the whole story is being told here. In that regard it could make an outstanding shot/shots complete BS. Just like anyone who may have seen combat decides when he gets home and drunk to "expound upon the truth". Once you lose credibility, it's gone. Better to stick to the truth as you saw it.

That said, the British sniper school isn't any more demanding than most of the demanding courses internationally. But,we had a saying in A&P school that I think pertains to most all schools. It's a license to learn. There is no way a school can teach what exactly is going on out there in the field. They can give you an overview and some practical experience. But, until you experience the real thing and succeed at it. And, know why you were successful. You really don't know enough to be the formative expert on the case.

So, as no doubt with most schools, you learn a ton at the school, you become proficient enough to go out in the world, and with the help of the senior people doing this job. Become even more proficient. Until in a case like this your work actually becomes "the" statistic people are looking to best.
 
#105
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

First off, my apologies for my english writing, but yes, it is not my native language, i'll trie toe run it froegh a tekst spelling proogrem next time...

And your wright, in English it is Apples and Oranges, my bad, in our language however the phrase is "apples and peArs" but the meaning is the same, thank you for the lesson in spelling.

Filling in my profile to have permission to adress you, SIR, sounds a bit arrogant, but again, that might be due to my lack of proper knowledge of the english language, or of the rules of this forum, if so, my apologies.

For what it is worth; been shooting long range sticks since 1992, both in our military and later on aswell in our L.E. Mostly 308w and 338lm (with the same setup as our Brit colleagues have) and a few more exotic types.

Back on topic; with an accurate rifle purposely build for extreme long range shooting with a 338, you might be able to reach that far, i agree (the 3 out of 3 still not done). But that would have to be with a longer barrel and faster twist than whats on the current AWM, and the bullits would need higher BC's than the current used Lapua scenars.
And last but not least, the scope would need more elevation than the one they have, and the base would need a more foreward angle.
If he did shoot the way he did with this set-up, he would have needed to turn the elevation knob al the way up, and still need to aim high above his target using alot of his mildots.
So, even with all the luck in the world, the mentioned shots with the used british set-up, aiming not on the target but holding off, from a bipod of a wall, it is and will still not be possible, period.

I have the highest respect for our british colleagues, i train yearly with them and they are good shooters. The ones i know are not of the exaggerating type.

Shooting 3 out of 3 cans with a 308 is peanuts, again, i totally agree. Shooting the same with a 9mm out of a mp5 at 300m??? hmmm....i guess i must be a lousy shot than, even after al those years.

NK.
 
#106
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

NK:

Filing out your profile on this site is only necessary if you are selling something.

However, it can be helpful to let people know where you are. I looked at your email address, which gave me a clue that you might not be a U.S. native.

Your language and writing are, frankly, no worse than a lot of Americans, which unfortunately says bad things about our school systems.

With respect to the topic at hand, personally, I think those shots are highly unlikely to have been made as described.

However, in the almost 64 years I've been on this planet, I have seen many unlikely events.
 
#107
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchduck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One shot luck.


THREE SHOTS B.S. </div></div>

Roger that!
Here is a link to the British Sniper School just to show that there is nothing special about their training in comparison to any other school you might have to go to.

One shot @ TWO THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED FOUR meters raises eye brow.

Two shots @ TWO THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED FOUR meters; bs...

Three shots @ TWO THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED FOUR mters; alot of bs...


</div></div>

I will agree that I don't think the whole story is being told here. In that regard it could make an outstanding shot/shots complete BS. Just like anyone who may have seen combat decides when he gets home and drunk to "expound upon the truth". Once you lose credibility, it's gone. Better to stick to the truth as you saw it.

That said, the British sniper school isn't any more demanding than most of the demanding courses internationally. But,we had a saying in A&P school that I think pertains to most all schools. It's a license to learn. There is no way a school can teach what exactly is going on out there in the field. They can give you an overview and some practical experience. But, until you experience the real thing and succeed at it. And, know why you were successful. You really don't know enough to be the formative expert on the case.

So, as no doubt with most schools, you learn a ton at the school, you become proficient enough to go out in the world, and with the help of the senior people doing this job. Become even more proficient. Until in a case like this your work actually becomes "the" statistic people are looking to best. </div></div>

I think some folks misunderstand the Brit way of instructing. We do not have a 'sniper school' within the Armed forces. Sniper instructors are now taught in one location, having been themselves badged snipers often for many years. This is to give them the appropriate qualification to run sniper training AND to be able to plan and brief sniper deployment at Battle group level.Sniper teams are taught at the unit level by Battalion cadres; some as short as six week others up to ten weeks. All unit dependent.
 
#109
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

Do I doubt the weapons systems capabilities,no. Do I doubt the operators capabilities,no. Do I doubt peoples capabilities to give correct concise accounts of what happens in high stress group situations,yes. As for the press well we all know how that it is. What has me scratching my head is that a trained and dedicated long range hitter didn't know the record. And the fact that both events aren't recent and there were no rumors or I heard about this stories around. Because lets face the truth that people talk regardless of what security regulations are in place. As for the 5 in 28,I'll refrain from comment.
 
#110
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

So many new tools in on this one now. Changing the subject like my wife does when we argue.

He didn't hit 3/3 at that range end of story good game. If you don't like it because you are a brit to bad.
 
#111
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NachtKracht</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, my apologies for my english writing, but yes, it is not my native language, i'll trie toe run it froegh a tekst spelling proogrem next time...

And your wright, in English it is Apples and Oranges, my bad, in our language however the phrase is "apples and peArs" but the meaning is the same, thank you for the lesson in spelling.

Filling in my profile to have permission to adress you, SIR, sounds a bit arrogant, but again, that might be due to my lack of proper knowledge of the english language, or of the rules of this forum, if so, my apologies.

For what it is worth; been shooting long range sticks since 1992, both in our military and later on aswell in our L.E. Mostly 308w and 338lm (with the same setup as our Brit colleagues have) and a few more exotic types.

Back on topic; with an accurate rifle purposely build for extreme long range shooting with a 338, you might be able to reach that far, i agree (the 3 out of 3 still not done). But that would have to be with a longer barrel and faster twist than whats on the current AWM, and the bullits would need higher BC's than the current used Lapua scenars.
And last but not least, the scope would need more elevation than the one they have, and the base would need a more foreward angle.
If he did shoot the way he did with this set-up, he would have needed to turn the elevation knob al the way up, and still need to aim high above his target using alot of his mildots.
So, even with all the luck in the world, the mentioned shots with the used british set-up, aiming not on the target but holding off, from a bipod of a wall, it is and will still not be possible, period.

I have the highest respect for our british colleagues, i train yearly with them and they are good shooters. The ones i know are not of the exaggerating type.

Shooting 3 out of 3 cans with a 308 is peanuts, again, i totally agree. Shooting the same with a 9mm out of a mp5 at 300m??? hmmm....i guess i must be a lousy shot than, even after al those years.

NK.</div></div>

NachtFracht,

My apologies. I got snappy about this when I shouldn't have, and just found something to nit-pick at. Your comparison of apples to oranges/pears is relatively fair one. I understand the .338 Lapua doesn't have the transonic range of the .408 or the .416. Or the overall range for that matter. to me it's more like two different kinds of apples.

I am saying that if conditions are right and the bullet gets through the transonic range without too much disturbance it COULD hit two targets in a row. And as I noted we've seen rounds hitting at 2500 yds. making a 14" group.

As for the MP5 being able to hit a pop can @ 300m, it's a difficult task no doubt. And you're probably not a bad shooter. Just your MP5's probably had a lot more rounds through them than ours did back in the early 80's. We only took our out on special occasions. They didn't at all normally see field use. Or a ton of rounds put through them when we did go.
 
#112
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NachtKracht</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And last but not least, the scope would need more elevation than the one they have, and the base would need a more foreward angle.
If he did shoot the way he did with this set-up, he would have needed to turn the elevation knob al the way up, and still need to aim high above his target using alot of his mildots.
NK. </div></div>

As far as I know, Brits are using 5-25 SB with P4 reticle in their 338 system. With P4, hash marks make accurate aiming itself possible -thats not the problem IMHO.
Problem is that in order to get/see enough hash marks in field of view, magnification must be cranked down to about 8x or less. IF rifle is zeroed at 100meters.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NachtKracht</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Shooting 3 out of 3 cans with a 308 is peanuts, again, i totally agree. Shooting the same with a 9mm out of a mp5 at 300m??? hmmm....i guess i must be a lousy shot than, even after al those years.
NK. </div></div>

happened to try that with MP5/Aimpoint yesterday- target 1.5yds x 1.5yds...30 shots, 3 hits.
mad.gif
blush.gif

With spotter and scope...

Still, fun it was!
 
#115
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

All,

I'm in southern Afghanistan; I saw a post about this incident on another forum and asked my S-2 NCO to see what he could find out on it. He was able to pull up the patrol report for the incident in question from a database.

The location is correct, the shooter is correct, the weapon is correct, the basic outline of the story is correct. The report says absolutely nothing about making the 2 kills with only two shots, or about disabling the machine gun. The 2 kills are verified, as well as the location of the shooter and the location of the kills. There is quite likely a lot of exaggeration in the media stories( the report doesn't say how many rounds the sniper fired, he may have fired half his basic load for all we know at this point), but that the sniper made 2 kills at that range appears to be fact.

Mike
 
#117
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

That article in Wikipedia is an <span style="font-style: italic">opinion</span> of the person who wrote that article, and then those who edited it. It is no more authoritative than those on this web site.

The only persons who are an authoritative source of the facts of this incident are those who were <span style="font-style: italic">there</span>, and may be restricted to the guy behind the rifle.

Idle speculation is welcome here - were it not, there wouldn't be much traffic on this board - but it ought to be recognized for what it is.

 
#118
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

Mike, that makes it at least a bit more plausible. Still would like to know what kind of holdoff he used if it is true.

Official reports shoud reach the training units pretty soon, maybe that will make an end to all propaganda exagerations.

NK.
 
#119
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NachtKracht said:
As for the MP5 being able to hit a pop can @ 300m, it's a difficult task no doubt. And you're probably not a bad shooter. Just your MP5's probably had a lot more rounds through them than ours did back in the early 80's. We only took our out on special occasions. </div></div>


I have stayed quiet in this thread, but my BS alarm goes off when someone tells me that they are hitting soda cans at 300yards with an MP5 consistently. Sorry not gonna happen. Not consistently anyway. A typical 9mm round zeroed at 25yards has dropped over 130inches at 300yards and dropping like a free falling rock. With a an average BC of 0.15 and low velocity a 9mm round doesnt lend it self well to long range accuracy.


A standard soda can is ~2.5" wide and ~4.5" long. Assuming the soda can is sitting upright you still have to shoot sub-MOA width wise and 1.5MOA length wise to hit it at 300yards. Still not "peanuts" by any means. Of course a good rifle and shooter can do that. But lets not make it sound like you can point and shoot a soda can at 300yards. So to say that with an Mp5 you hit soda cans at 300yards consistently makes my BS alarm go off. No offense meant just saying.
Click to expand...
 
#120
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rob Furlong admited to connect on the <span style="font-weight: bold">third</span> shot, and the 50 BMG (750 A-Max) was still in the supersonic range... lots of luck (and skill of course) involved but credible. The leupold Mk4 16X has lots of elevation available, even with a close range zero. And the rifle is still on display to check anything.

Now this is at longer range with a 338 LM, 250 Lock Base, waaay past transonic range (we know the lapuas make the transition well, though), <span style="font-weight: bold">hitting on the FIRST shot, then another, and then yet another on a MG (less than 0.25 MOA target)!!!</span> What are the odds? And with the driver as a spotter!

The brits normally have a 29 MOA base and 5-25X scope with P4F reticle, and as others have explained above the power should zoom down to 8X (or perhaps 12X at high altitude) to get the neccesary come ups.

Quite different, and IMO strechs the limits of credibility. </div></div>

Should be 45 MOA base unless they've ordered some special base from AI for their L115A3's..
 
#121
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike504</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All,

I'm in southern Afghanistan; I saw a post about this incident on another forum and asked my S-2 NCO to see what he could find out on it. He was able to pull up the patrol report for the incident in question from a database.

The location is correct, the shooter is correct, the weapon is correct, the basic outline of the story is correct. The report says absolutely nothing about making the 2 kills with only two shots, or about disabling the machine gun. The 2 kills are verified, as well as the location of the shooter and the location of the kills. There is quite likely a lot of exaggeration in the media stories( the report doesn't say how many rounds the sniper fired, he may have fired half his basic load for all we know at this point), but that the sniper made 2 kills at that range appears to be fact.

Mike </div></div>

I'm guessing you're right, since everyone seems to have credited this for being the "new" record (wikipedia, Accuracy International, media etc.) Most likely the rubbish in this story is produced by media rather than the sniper team themselves.. 3 out of 3 seems just to good to be true, but 2 out of X, or first shot luck is obviously something we all could accept.

Question - what is used in Afghanistan by the brits, 100 m or 300 m zero?
 
#122
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

I watched the show on the History channel today, after "Axemen" of course, with various sniper encounters. The last one is the Furlong encounter. Pretty amazing stuff. Then as the second part of that segment, McMillan, (son of one of the stockmaker McMillan's) tried it out in the desert in AZ. They couldn't even see the trace through all the mirage. They were impressed. It was too tough of a shot to even come close to that day in AZ.
 
#123
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

Cazorp,

I don't know what range zero the British Army is using in Afghanistan. I know that the American Army has taught for a long time to use a 300m zero as a general rule on the M24 and Leupold 10x. I recall that the USMC for years taught to use a 600 yard zero (approx 550m) on their M40s and Unertl 10x. Current practice for sniper teams over here I don't know. Personally I have an SPR upper receiver that when I hike into a position where I can range out a decent distance, I push the pins and swap from my M4 14.5" bbl to a match grade 18.5" bbl that is freefloated. When I first got over here I was using a 4x ACOG, and making consistent hits to 800m under ideal conditions with MK262, and regular hits on water filled #10 cans(approximating the size of a human head)out to 400m. I have since switched over to a 2.5-10x (I am using a 500m zero; I decided that the chances are good that if a target presented itself closer I would probably still have the M4 upper on the weapon) and feel comfortable engaging out to 800m with the potential to get lucky to a 1000m. When I knew we were deploying here I had a workshop at my base in the United States make some armorplate E type targets (full silhouette), F type targets (head and shoulders), pepper poppers, and 4 inch, 6 inch, 8 inch, and 10 inch round plates. When I got here I and my boys constructed a range with targets out to 1350m. It's not perfect, but it's the best setup in southern Afghanistan.

Mike
 
#124
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That article in Wikipedia is an <span style="font-style: italic">opinion</span> of the person who wrote that article, and then those who edited it. It is no more authoritative than those on this web site.

The only persons who are an authoritative source of the facts of this incident are those who were <span style="font-style: italic">there</span>, and may be restricted to the guy behind the rifle.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Idle speculation is welcome here - were it not, there wouldn't be much traffic on this board</span> - but it ought to be recognized for what it is.

</div></div>

Too funny and too right!
 
#125
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Question - what is used in Afghanistan by the brits, 100 m or 300 m zero? </div></div>

Not sure how our snipers work now over there, but when I was in, (it was a while ago) it was standard to zero our SLR's for 300m...IIRC we would zero them high at 100m and then confirm they were on at 300m...

Not sure how our snipers work, but I can't imagine them going for a 100m zero in that particular operational theatre.
 
#126
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NachtKracht said:
As for the MP5 being able to hit a pop can @ 300m, it's a difficult task no doubt. And you're probably not a bad shooter. Just your MP5's probably had a lot more rounds through them than ours did back in the early 80's. We only took our out on special occasions. </div></div>


I have stayed quiet in this thread, but my BS alarm goes off when someone tells me that they are hitting soda cans at 300yards with an MP5 consistently. Sorry not gonna happen. Not consistently anyway. A typical 9mm round zeroed at 25yards has dropped over 130inches at 300yards and dropping like a free falling rock. With a an average BC of 0.15 and low velocity a 9mm round doesnt lend it self well to long range accuracy.


<span style="font-weight: bold">A standard soda can is ~2.5" wide and ~4.5" long. Assuming the soda can is sitting upright you still have to shoot sub-MOA width wise and 1.5MOA length wise to hit it at 300yards. Still not "peanuts" by any means. Of course a good rifle and shooter can do that. But lets not make it sound like you can point and shoot a soda can at 300yards. So to say that with an Mp5 you hit soda cans at 300yards consistently makes my BS alarm go off. No offense meant just saying. </span> </div></div>

I didn't say "point and shoot" I said from a prone supported, or even better, from a bench. You know, put it on sandbags so you get a more stable rest? I'm sure you've heard of doing that. Put a good scope on it? So you can see better? Ever hear of that? FWIW, I can't even shoot my best rifle that good just pointing and shooting. But I can sure do it from a bench or in the prone. And I said it can be done. I didn't say it was always a sure bet. I had it proven to me specifically for a reason I don't care to discuss here. It was merely to prove that an MP5 could hit a man size target @ 300m. And when it was proven the group size was about that of a pop can. And, it was more than three rounds. So, if given ideal conditions it can be done.

While you're at the math, why don't you tell me a .300 whisper won't hit that consistently at 300 m. when fired at about 1050 fps. It drops 5 ft. I know my T/C 14" 7mm TCU will shoot a 2 1/4" group fired from a rest on a bench at 300. You gonna tell me that don't happen either...cause the bullets going slow and drops a lot? Maybe they haven't been knocking over steel rams @ 500 either all these years. 'Cause the boolits just too slow to hit something. Sure glad to have someone like you on board to say it can't ever happen.

Now, to tie this in to the OP's original intent of the thread and how we got off on this tangent. It was said that comparing a .408/416 to a .338 was apples to pears/(oranges as we say here). As many people may know when a bullet goes transonic it gets disrupted in flight. Some bullets recover better. Others don't. Lapua bullets in general do tend to re-stabilize better. It is my opinion that comparing the .408/.416 to the .338 is like comparing two different apples. Comparing a rifle to an MP5 is like comparing apples to pears/oranges. 300m is within damn near every 'off the shelf' rifle's ability to hit. I still say it's a damn tall order to hit pop cans @ 300m with an MP5, but it can be done.
Click to expand...
 
#127
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

I'll admit I’m going a bit off-topic now, but;
the 3 out of 3 story already made my eyebrows raise way over their stretch limit, but reading this 9mm stuff, they are raised way passed the top of my head, I’m telling ya, they are hurtin.
wink.gif


My intentions are not to become to personal, and maybe, again, I am misreading or misunderstanding the English writing, however Sandwarrior, unless you had a different kind of H&K Mp5 back in your days, or your versions had way longer barrels on them instead of the normal 8.9 inch, (and I mean waaaayyy longer, like 26 inch long) I not only totally agree with Alphas reply, I know for fact that it cannot be done what you implied. Because I did not want to offend anyone straight away, I carefully implied that it must have been my bad shooting skills that makes me not being able to consistently hit soda cans at 300m with a mp5…

But gladly I am not the only one who’s eyebrows were stretched to their limits.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, Sandwarrior, but maybe because for the sake of winning the argument you accidently exaggerated the 9mm story?

Anyways, I have been involved in testing the Mp5Ns effective range limit because over here they wanted to know if it was possible to make consistently headshots with an improved Mp5N. With the regular Mp5N it was not possible. Yes, our best shooters could hit a head sized target many times, but not every time, so they could not guarantee that every shot would hit, sometimes because of the weather, the wind, or lighting conditions but mostly because of the setup; Regular Mp5N, with retractable stock, aimpoint, and shooting off a sandbag.

So, what we did, was “improving” the gun;
retractable stock replaced by standard fixed stock
standard hand guard replaced by quadrail
aimpoint replaced by S&B 3-12x56 scope (later on replaced by S&B 1-4 shortdot)
installed Harris HRBMS bipod
replaced standard 9mm ammo with special long range 9mm (higher muzzle velocity).
The rifle now looked ridiculous, but precision shooting was way improved.

@ 100m our best shooters, shooting this improved version either from the sandbag or off the bipod, now could guarantee headshots, every shot. So out of 25 shots, all 25 would hit the target. Shooting was done inside an indoor range (with climate control) and on an open outside range with different weather conditions.
That sounds ok, but mind you, our head sized target is 9 inch high and 6 inch wide, average grouping with the 9mm was 3 moa at best. So shooting a soda can @ 100m can be done, and yes, under easy conditions (indoor range with climate control) even consistently. But @ 100m’s, not @ 200, and most definitely not on 300m.

Same goes for the 338 BS story. Our 338s shoot at a 1000m a 5 shot group of an average 30cm’s, the smallest groups sometimes are in the 10cm range, but mostly around the 25-35cm range.
That s done with Ruag ammo, because they tend to group better than the lapua ammo, in our humble experience.
That is a nice consistently 1 moa real world grouping. At 1200m you can still hit a man-sized target, and a good shooter on a good day will even hit that target at 1500m. Consistently? NO.
1200m is our maximum effective range. 1 moa means a 5 shot group of 30 cm’s @ 1000m and 60cm @ 2000m…in theory. In the real world the standard 338 250grain scenar will not hit any target beyond the 1500m consistently…unless the target is a 747 boeingg….standing vertical on its nose….

Again, maybe we are lousy shooters…

So am I calling you a liar, NO. Am I calling your 9mm story BullShit? No, at best I am calling your 9mm story exaggerated. But I would advise you not to come back with more of these type of stories, because they are not good for your credibility. Anyone with real trigger time, will see right through them. And they don’t have to be Special ops, Swat or have many years of trigger time as a Sniper, any rifle shooting competitor who shoots and competes a lot, will know when they smell the shit of a male cow too.

I am glad i kept this story short...
cool.gif


Yours truly,

NK.
 
#128
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

Hitting targets at 1800-1900 yards consistently with the 338LM is not the issue. The issue is the wind. On a calm day, and good day, you can hit targets 1.5 MOA targets at that range consistently. However, when the wind kicks up a notch or two, then it really doesn't matter if you are engaging target at 1500 yards or longer, getting consistent hits on a 1.5 MOA target will be extremely difficult at best.
 
#129
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NachtKracht</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">At 1200m you can still hit a man-sized target, and a good shooter on a good day will even hit that target at 1500m. Consistently? NO.</span></span>
1200m is our maximum effective range. 1 moa means a 5 shot group of 30 cm’s @ 1000m and 60cm @ 2000m…in theory. In the real world the standard 338 250grain scenar will not hit any target beyond the 1500m consistently…unless the target is a 747 boeingg….standing vertical on its nose….

</div></div>


My maximal effective range for my 300 WM is about 1500 yards. I can hit it very consistent. No, the target is NOT a 747 standing on its nose either. Target is about 2 MOA size. So, I am certain that my 338 LM is more consistent than at 1200 Meter range. Last time I was out with a couple friends who are also Hide members too, we engaged 1550 yards targets with regular consistency that we decided to move back to 1800 and 1900 yards. The wind was gusting any where from 15-20 mph, And we managed to hit our targets. However, it's not the level of consistency that we want, but nontheless, we were able to hit out targets. So, engaging a soft target at 1 mile range give and take is not an issue for the 338 LM in my book. What I would like to know is the condition under which it was engaged that makes it possible or not.
 
#130
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

I've never done any shooting over 1000 yards.....so my experience with this caliber (.338) and distance (2700 yds.) is purely limited to the internet & a ballistic computer.
laugh.gif


But the article quotes the shooter as saying that there was no wind that day. Maybe not, but in my experience....there is always either a slight/small/quick breeze or there is gonna be atleast a 1 mph wind SOMEWHERE across 2700 yards!


Taking that into consideration and running some numbers through a ballistic computer using a .338 Lapua 250 gr. Scenar at 3000 fps, shows that a 1 mph wind (full value) will push the bullet 35 inches at 2700 yards......if that wind is simply 2 mph instead of 1 mph.....then it blows the bullet more than 71 inches off target.......

Missing a wind call by 1 mph seems to increase the margin of missing your target by quite a large amount.....I surely have no standing to question this soldiers account, but it seems that if it's true, he caught lighting in a bottle 3 times in a row......
 
#131
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

I agree that even with no wind, there is wind somewhere between shooter and target. So yes, you always have to take into account for that.

In all honesty, the media probably got the whole thing mixed up. For all we know, there might have been more than one shot taken per target, but never made it to the newspaper. Nevertheless, I don't want to discount the ability of the shooter to neutralize the target at that range. That's still awesome in my book, whether it took him ten shots or whatever # of shots to finish the targets.
 
#132
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NachtKracht</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll admit I’m going a bit off-topic now, but;
the 3 out of 3 story already made my eyebrows raise way over their stretch limit, but reading this 9mm stuff, they are raised way passed the top of my head, I’m telling ya, they are hurtin.
wink.gif


My intentions are not to become to personal, and maybe, again, I am misreading or misunderstanding the English writing, however Sandwarrior, unless you had a different kind of H&K Mp5 back in your days, or your versions had way longer barrels on them instead of the normal 8.9 inch, (and I mean waaaayyy longer, like 26 inch long) I not only totally agree with Alphas reply, I know for fact that it cannot be done what you implied. Because I did not want to offend anyone straight away, I carefully implied that it must have been my bad shooting skills that makes me not being able to consistently hit soda cans at 300m with a mp5…

But gladly I am not the only one who’s eyebrows were stretched to their limits.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, Sandwarrior, but maybe because for the sake of winning the argument you accidently exaggerated the 9mm story?

Anyways, I have been involved in testing the Mp5Ns effective range limit because over here they wanted to know if it was possible to make consistently headshots with an improved Mp5N. With the regular Mp5N it was not possible. Yes, our best shooters could hit a head sized target many times, but not every time, so they could not guarantee that every shot would hit, sometimes because of the weather, the wind, or lighting conditions but mostly because of the setup; Regular Mp5N, with retractable stock, aimpoint, and shooting off a sandbag.

So, what we did, was “improving” the gun;
retractable stock replaced by standard fixed stock
standard hand guard replaced by quadrail
aimpoint replaced by S&B 3-12x56 scope (later on replaced by S&B 1-4 shortdot)
installed Harris HRBMS bipod
replaced standard 9mm ammo with special long range 9mm (higher muzzle velocity).
The rifle now looked ridiculous, but precision shooting was way improved.

@ 100m our best shooters, shooting this improved version either from the sandbag or off the bipod, now could guarantee headshots, every shot. So out of 25 shots, all 25 would hit the target. Shooting was done inside an indoor range (with climate control) and on an open outside range with different weather conditions.
That sounds ok, but mind you, our head sized target is 9 inch high and 6 inch wide, average grouping with the 9mm was 3 moa at best. So shooting a soda can @ 100m can be done, and yes, under easy conditions (indoor range with climate control) even consistently. But @ 100m’s, not @ 200, and most definitely not on 300m.

Same goes for the 338 BS story. Our 338s shoot at a 1000m a 5 shot group of an average 30cm’s, the smallest groups sometimes are in the 10cm range, but mostly around the 25-35cm range.
That s done with Ruag ammo, because they tend to group better than the lapua ammo, in our humble experience.
That is a nice consistently 1 moa real world grouping. At 1200m you can still hit a man-sized target, and a good shooter on a good day will even hit that target at 1500m. Consistently? NO.
1200m is our maximum effective range. 1 moa means a 5 shot group of 30 cm’s @ 1000m and 60cm @ 2000m…in theory. In the real world the standard 338 250grain scenar will not hit any target beyond the 1500m consistently…unless the target is a 747 boeingg….standing vertical on its nose….

Again, maybe we are lousy shooters…

So am I calling you a liar, NO. Am I calling your 9mm story BullShit? No, at best I am calling your 9mm story exaggerated. But I would advise you not to come back with more of these type of stories, because they are not good for your credibility. Anyone with real trigger time, will see right through them. And they don’t have to be Special ops, Swat or have many years of trigger time as a Sniper, any rifle shooting competitor who shoots and competes a lot, will know when they smell the shit of a male cow too.

I am glad i kept this story short...
cool.gif


Yours truly,

NK.
</div></div>

Ok, so here it is. I don't really care how good or bad a shot you are with YOUR MP5. You don't believe it can be done, so it can't. Call bullshit on me. I don't care. I saw what I saw. For the record why don't you call bullshit on the 7mm TCU and the .300 Whisper as well. Too much drop for them to hit anything at long range too. You're the one who brought it up.

And Again, I will point out to you trying to compare a high powered rifle with an MP5 <span style="text-decoration: underline">is</span> comparing apples and pears (as you like, since you want to call it that). I say comparing a .338 Lapua to a .408/.416 is a little more like comparing one kind of apple to another. On a great day, with everything going for you it <span style="text-decoration: underline">can</span> be done. This doesn't get done on an everyday or even yearly basis. The last record stood from about 1967 to 2002. As many operators know, conditions are almost never good enough to shoot even half that far.


Seems we've had some kind of verification already. Not much, but if it's real it is pretty damned amazing. I know I can't shoot that good. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Since you didn't see it happen maybe you should continue to call bullshit on it like some others here.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">NO ONE HERE, including myself</span></span>, seems to think the whole story is being told. Not at least without a whole lot of luck and maybe/probably some more rounds being fired... I am personally thinking the press distorted this. If the story isn't generally true, I'm pretty sure the British Army would have made a statement to the contrary by now. At least if this happened last fall as reported.

In the end, what happened? Two more taliban got their lights turned off. Great shooting! It would make me happier if we nailed a field commander or some guy @ 200m with a number in his pocket that turns out to be a bank account # that we could trace to some other $#!^head. Tap him....AND!...head off a bunch of money bound to buy arms for the taliban. That would be even better. But, for now? I'll take the two dead taliban.

Anything more is just speculation.
 
#133
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

See no reason to start any discussion about the .300 whisper or any calibre of that type. Again apples and pears...comparing a mp5 type 9mm with a 200 or 220 grain 308 bullit is useless. That whisper will reach 300m with ease, even subsonic. But that's being shot out of a barrel at least twice as long as the 8,9 inch of the mp5 and the bullit has a how many times higher b.c.?

About the apple stuf...i never compared the 408 round to the 338 round...i compared the 408 to the Accuracy AWSM in combination with the 338 round as being used in this bed-time sesamestreet story. That the brit shot those guys, sure, no prob, alot of the brit snipers have racked up some impressive hit numbers overthere. That he did it at the mentioned distance...that starts to become iffy in my book with that set-up. That he did it the way it is being told, with no sighters, 3 out of 3...ok, that is the thing i am calling BS, same as the magical 300m sodacan hitting 9mm bullits.

Hitting a target at those ranges is not impossible, a 338 bullit will fly 7000m if shot at an angle of 30-35 degrees. Hitting a man sized target (let alone a machinegun lying on the floor) at that mentioned range of more than 2400m...maybe once, and with a whole lot of more sighters than mentioned (0), but again, what you like to forget for the sake of "it might be possible" is the set-up the brits are using.

@Deserthk; You can hit a nice man sized still standing target at 1900 yards with your 338, no probs with that...but did your rifle have a 27 inch barrel, with 1-11 twist, and a max 90+ moa scope like the brits, or did your rig have a longer barrel and your scope enough elevation to aim dead on? Because the brit sure as hell was not able to aim dead on at the mentioned range...and making those hits as decribed in the story, by using the holdover methode...that must have made you scratch your head?

NK.
 
#134
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<span style="font-weight: bold">Hotshot sniper in one-and-a-half mile double kill</span>


A BRITISH Army sniper has set a new sharpshooting distance record by killing two Taliban machinegunners in Afghanistan from more than a mile away.

Craig Harrison, a member of the Household Cavalry, killed the insurgents with consecutive shots — even though they were <span style="color: #FF0000">3,000ft beyond the most effective range of his rifle</span>.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">“The first round hit a machinegunner in the stomach and killed him outright,” said Harrison, a Corporal of Horse. “He went straight down and didn’t move.

“The second insurgent grabbed the weapon and turned as my second shot hit him in the side. He went down, too. They were both dead.”</span> </span>

The shooting — which took place while Harrison’s colleagues came under attack — was at such extreme range that the <span style="color: #FF0000">8.59mm bullets took almost three seconds to reach their target</span> after leaving the barrel of the rifle at almost three times the speed of sound.

The distance to Harrison’s two targets was measured by a <span style="color: #FF0000">GPS system at 8,120ft, or 1.54 miles. The previous record for a sniper kill is 7,972ft,</span> set by a Canadian soldier who shot dead an Al-Qaeda gunman in March 2002.

In a remarkable tour of duty, Harrison cheated death a few weeks later when a Taliban bullet pierced his helmet but was deflected away from his skull. He later broke both arms when his army vehicle was hit by a roadside bomb.

Harrison was sent back to the UK for treatment, but insisted on returning to the front line after making a full recovery.

“I was lucky that my physical fitness levels were very high before my arms were fractured and after six weeks in plaster I was still in pretty good shape,” he said. “It hasn’t affected my ability as a sniper.”

Harrison, from Gloucestershire, was reunited in Britain with his wife Tanya and daughter Dani, 16, last month. Recalling his shooting prowess in Helmand province, he said: “It was just unlucky for the Taliban that conditions were so good and we could see them so clearly.”

<span style="color: #FF0000">Harrison and his colleagues were in open-topped Jackal 4x4 vehicles providing cover for an Afghan national army patrol south of Musa Qala in November last year. When the Afghan soldiers and Harrison’s troop commander came under enemy fire, the sniper, whose vehicle was further back on a ridge, trained his sights on a Taliban compound in the distance. His L115A3 long-range rifle, the army’s most powerful sniper weapon, is designed to be effective at up to 4,921ft and supposedly capable of only “harassing fire” beyond that range.</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">“We saw two insurgents running through its courtyard, one in a black dishdasha, one in green,” he said. “They came forward carrying a PKM machinegun, set it up and opened fire on the commander’s wagon.

“Conditions were perfect, no wind, mild weather, clear visibility. I rested the bipod of my weapon on a compound wall and aimed for the gunner firing the machinegun.

“The driver of my Jackal, Trooper Cliff O’Farrell, spotted for me, providing all the information needed for the shot, which was at the extreme range of the weapon.” </span>Harrison killed one machinegunner with his first attempt and felled the other with his next shot. He then let off a final round to knock the enemy weapon out of action.

Harrison discovered that he had set a new record only on his return to UK barracks nine days ago. The previous record was held by Corporal Rob Furlong, of Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, who was using a 12.7mm McMillan TAC-50 rifle.

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Tom Irwin, a director of Accuracy International, the British manufacturer of the L115A3 rifle, said: “It is still fairly accurate beyond 4,921ft, but at that distance luck plays as much of a part as anything.”</span> </span>

News of Harrison’s success comes amid concern over a rival insurgent sharpshooter who in a five-month spree has killed up to seven British soldiers, including a sniper, in and around the Taliban stronghold of Sangin.

In a later incident during the tour, Harrison’s patrol vehicle was hit 36 times during a Taliban ambush. “One round hit my helmet behind the right ear and came out of the top,” he said. “Two more rounds went through the strap across my chest. We were all very, very lucky not to get hurt.”


Funny distance for a overwatch position heh? 3000 fu'n ft beyond the weapons max effective range. Also just so happens to be that these shots were just over Rob Furlong's record which I did not buy either. But this one by Craig Harrison takes the prize. What a crock of shit. It would be believable if he said he shot 10 times and finally scored a kill shot. But the 3 shots 2 kills one which disabled the machine gun. Get the hell out of here. I mean common.

I think I will take out my M4 on next patrol I have outside the COP here and I will make a ridiculous claim. Why not make it the new world record but add like 1000 meters.

Way beyond the max effective range of the weapon but by god it's definately inside the max range of the weapon system!! My 4x ACOG should be just fine.

Pisses me off people are actually buying into this bs.
 
#135
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

I would like to hear a interveiw with this shooter not some second hand reporters story.Is what he did possible? I say anything is possable and unless you were there you really don't know. I'm not saying yes or no.But to call bullshit from the saftey of your keyboard is a chickenshit move.I have seen some shit I would not belive unless I was there.Luck or skill who knows. Reporters dressing up the story probally, but how much?I find it a shame to take cheap shots at a man that is putting his ass on the line. I hope it is true and is proven beond a shadow of a doubt. And he dose it over and over agian. The more of those scumbags in the ground the better at what ever range possible!!!
Scot
 
#136
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

That's all I'm saying. It COULD have happened. There is no way any one of us can prove right or wrong. Not even the best of the best of us here at our keyboards can prove or disprove what happened. We weren't there. Many here may know the specific capabilities of that rifle. But under the given conditions? And you not being there?

The London Times came out with the story. Even though the facts seem a little too good to be true. If it isn't true, maybe the British Army could be good enough to come along and clear that up.
 
#137
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's all I'm saying. It COULD have happened. There is no way any one of us can prove right or wrong. Not even the best of the best of us here at our keyboards can prove or disprove what happened. We weren't there. Many here may know the specific capabilities of that rifle. But under the given conditions? And you not being there?

The London Times came out with the story. Even though the facts seem a little too good to be true. If it isn't true, maybe the British Army could be good enough to come along and clear that up. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">-----------------------------------------</span>

Yes; ANYTHING could of happened... But get real; for reals? I mean really; are people really that gullable credulous, trusting, and naive? He could of backed off another 1000 meters and everyone would of belived the same. It <span style="color: #006600">COULD</span> of happend.

What also COULD of also POSSIBLY happened:
1.Dusty Range finder that was read "incorrectly" oops
2.Taken shots from a lot closer and drove somewhere else?
3.He was possessed by a demon sniper who assisted the shot..?

I mean you can't say none of those are possible because you are not here?

Going to make a new sig soon. Check it out! It will say something like this:

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 20pt">Anna Nicole Smith married for love, The U.S went to war to find WMD and Corporal Craig Harrison scored 3/4 hits at 3,000' beyond the max effective range of his weapons system.</span></span>

One might find the 1st two much more logical than the last.

Someone answer me this since we have a few mathematician's in here. Tell me what the difference would be between where his <span style="color: #3333FF">cold bore</span> shot would place compared to his <span style="color: #CC0000">next shot</span> at over 2,700+ meters? Say his first shot hit center mass. Next shot is going to hit a lot higher at that range mathematicaly speaking at that range correct?

For all the believers who THINK this is possible you can go to this website where there is also other things possible:

http://www.bigfootforums.com/

I mean he could be out there? We have thermal imagery now; dogs that can smell out any animal for miles, helicopters, thousands of thousands of believers looking for Harry Henderson. But he <span style="color: #FF0000">COULD</span> exist!! However we could better say highly illogical?


<span style="font-style: italic">This is Paul Harvey</span>: Gooood day,

Lw
 
#138
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonewolf&#8207;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's all I'm saying. It COULD have happened. There is no way any one of us can prove right or wrong. Not even the best of the best of us here at our keyboards can prove or disprove what happened. We weren't there. Many here may know the specific capabilities of that rifle. But under the given conditions? And you not being there?

The London Times came out with the story. Even though the facts seem a little too good to be true. If it isn't true, maybe the British Army could be good enough to come along and clear that up. </div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">-----------------------------------------</span>

Yes; ANYTHING could of happened... But get real; for reals? I mean really; are people really that gullable credulous, trusting, and naive? He could of backed off another 1000 meters and everyone would of belived the same. It <span style="color: #006600">COULD</span> of happend.

What also COULD of also POSSIBLY happened:
1.Dusty Range finder that was read "incorrectly" oops
2.Taken shots from a lot closer and drove somewhere else?
3.He was possessed by a demon sniper who assisted the shot..?

I mean you can't say none of those are possible because you are not here?

Going to make a new sig soon. Check it out! It will say something like this:

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 20pt">Anna Nicole Smith married for love, The U.S went to war to find WMD and Corporal Craig Harrison scored 3/4 hits at 3,000' beyond the max effective range of his weapons system.</span></span>

One might find the 1st two much more logical than the last.

Someone answer me this since we have a few mathematician's in here. Tell me what the difference would be between where his <span style="color: #3333FF">cold bore</span> shot would place compared to his <span style="color: #CC0000">next shot</span> at over 2,700+ meters? Say his first shot hit center mass. Next shot is going to hit a lot higher at that range mathematicaly speaking at that range correct?

For all the believers who THINK this is possible you can go to this website where there is also other things possible:

http://www.bigfootforums.com/

I mean he could be out there? We have thermal imagery now; dogs that can smell out any animal for miles, helicopters, thousands of thousands of believers looking for Harry Henderson. But he <span style="color: #FF0000">COULD</span> exist!! However we could better say highly illogical?


<span style="font-style: italic">This is Paul Harvey</span>: Gooood day,

Lw</div></div>

<span style="font-size: 20pt">The London Times came out with the story. Even though the facts seem a little too good to be true. If it isn't true, maybe the British Army could be good enough to come along and clear that up.</span>

Call them out on it then. I wasn't there as said before. It's possible to do.
 
#139
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

Lonewolf&#8207 Someone answer me this since we have a few mathematician's in here. Tell me what the difference would be between where his <span style="color: #3333FF">cold bore</span> shot would place compared to his <span style="color: #CC0000">next shot</span> at over 2 said:
Devil's advocate here-
Who said his first shot was cold bore?
Click to expand...
 
#141
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

Lonewolf, I think if you are so sure this gentelmen is full of shit you should go see him in person and tell him so.I hope for your sake he has a sence of humor or really is full of shit or else yoy will have a hell of a time getting out of range!!!I'm sorry but when you start using lines from movies to make a point you cheapen your theroy.Lets just put this in perspective. They were making 1000 yard hits with blackpowder 45-70 type weapons 100 years ago using iron sights. Service rifles (5.56) compete at 600m with iron sights.But a trained sniper with state of the art equiptment can't make 3 hits because you don't belive it.Maybe GOD was mad at the camel jockeys that day. But you probally don't belive in GOD because nobody can prove he is real with a ballistic chart.You are beating this to death!!! Perhaps if you take the time you have put into trying to discreadit a brother warrior and go to the range and practice you may devolope you own shills to the level that people will call bs on your shooting skills.
Scot
 
#142
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

As its reported Crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kyshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm glad I'm not the only one who was having that thought.

And, he was shooting with his "bipod rested on a compound wall."

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm...and he shot the machine gun as well on the third shot????

So that's 3 hits in a row at 2706 yards with the third making a 1/8 MOA hit.
crazy.gif




</div></div> </div></div>
 
#143
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets just put this in perspective. They were making 1000 yard hits with blackpowder 45-70 type weapons 100 years ago using iron sights. Service rifles (5.56) compete at 600m with iron sights. </div></div>

how about Carlos Hathcock's confirmed record of 2500 yards shot with a Browning M2 mounting with a telescopic sight? And we all know how accurate those Browing M2 can be right?
 
#145
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets just put this in perspective. They were making 1000 yard hits with blackpowder 45-70 type weapons 100 years ago using iron sights. Service rifles (5.56) compete at 600m with iron sights. </div></div>

how about Carlos Hathcock's confirmed record of 2500 yards shot with a Browning M2 mounting with a telescopic sight? And we all know how accurate those Browing M2 can be right? </div></div>

But that is history, and history can never be questioned..
History is fables agreed upon /Voltaire
wink.gif
 
#146
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

Im sure the odds of such three shots are astronomically high. But look at the mega millions lottery, the odds of winning are in the hundreds of millions if not billions; yet people still win.
 
#147
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

The odds of winning the lottery are infinitesimal for one person, yet millions of people play many times and somebody eventually wins.

How many people even try these super-duper-long range shots? Not many, not often. That's why scoring three out of three "impossible" shots in a row (the third one "mega-impossible"), specially in the conditions related by the article, raises many an eyebrow... not absolutely impossible, but extremely unlikely.

I is not my intention to not call BS or anything, but we can discuss it here and everybody decides for himself what to believe
wink.gif
 
#148
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets just put this in perspective. They were making 1000 yard hits with blackpowder 45-70 type weapons 100 years ago using iron sights. Service rifles (5.56) compete at 600m with iron sights. </div></div>

how about Carlos Hathcock's confirmed record of 2500 yards shot with a Browning M2 mounting with a telescopic sight? And we all know how accurate those Browing M2 can be right? </div></div>

I've heard this one for years. Then I saw the Hathcock interview. The thing that nobody ever talks about is that he would have missed had the NVA not stood up just as Hathcock fired the shot. The round would have flown right over his bent over form.

Apparently NVA wandered right onto the spot that he had zeroed his weapon for and bent over. Carlos fired the shot, NVA stood up... the rest is history. Still an AMAZING shot and I've the utmost respect for the man. You should check out the videos on YouTube.

Wonder when the rest of the "facts" will come out on THIS very interesting story.

John
 
#149
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

I have learned one thing from this thread...to recognize those who know what they are talkin about, and those who don't. Period.

Thread is no longer interesting with so much "but it could be possible" BS comparisons based on nothing or interesting info to back it actually up.

Should have known, to bad.

NK, out.
 
#150
Re: British sniper breaks Rob Furlong's record

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NachtKracht</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have learned one thing from this thread...to recognize those who know what they are talkin about, and those who don't. Period.

Thread is no longer interesting with so much "but it could be possible" BS comparisons based on nothing or interesting info to back it actually up.

Should have known, to bad.

NK, out.</div></div>

I hate to tell you this but your posts all seem to stem from what you can do with any given weapons system. Not what other people can do.

Maybe, just maybe, other people are more talented that you are.

If you will, go back to my second post from which I exchanged 'issues' with you. You will see there that I apologized and stated I maybe didn't stop to think who you were.

Now, turn that around and take a look at the situation from an open end, not your end. If you say it can't be done, I say I can't do it either. I know I'm a pretty good shot. But, I also know there are not only better shooters here than me but better stalkers, better operational specialists, and people just in general more knowledgeable than I.

Stop and think for a moment just exactly how this could be done. I will tell you I was hitting somewhat accurately at 2000 yds. on a good day with my 7mm WSM at altitude. If this guy is better than me (as I'm sure he is), I'm sure he can put 'em right in there 700 yds farther with a round designed to go farther.

FTR, I did a google Earth lookaround of the area South of the City and it runs about 3500 ft. elevation at the river bed. I will assume that the temperature is cold in November there and that the altitude, if that low won't be that high. Some surrounding ridges went as high as 5000 ft. in that general area. But I don't know where the action took place.

Piece by piece we can dissect this and it still won't matter. The London Times printed their story and the British Army isn't saying anything to the contrary.
 
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