Buddies 22 creed blew up…. Any ideas

[brianf]

It’s not about pressure signs and particular rifles.

When people say their particular rifle…it means nothing unless your under the max sammi pressure.

The weakness is the brass

No matter what a rifle is designed to withstand…the brass will let go when pushed to far.

And almost all brass on the market…because it’s only brass…85k is too much

 

[Kiba]

Assuming a 26" barrel, 44gr of Varget and a 62grain bullet at 4150 fps, with some rough Quickload calculations....

Somewhere north of 85k PSI.

Don't forget the controlled chaos is a solid copper bullet, so increase the start pressure in Quick Load over the default for jacketed lead bullets-- that might bump the pressure even higher than the 85ksi estimate.

Scary pics, but it does give me confidence in Ted's design and steel and heat treating choices for the ARC actions.

 

[HOOFER]

I hit 3980fps with a 75GR eld-m with it. 4150 with that light of a bullet would be easy.

I would guess this was old brass… not new OCD.

What powder. Maybe he will wanna try it….

 

[Krob95]

I hit 3980fps with a 75GR eld-m with it. 4150 with that light of a bullet would be easy.

I would guess this was old brass… not new OCD. The old stuff couldn’t even hit 3300fps without showing tons of pressure.

Valid point. Still absolutely insane for both scenarios. And testimony to the OCD stuff over their older brass

 

[orkan]

Previous shot

Yeah… that’s why every one of my videos tells people just because you can’t see pressure on alpha, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Thank your buddy… because now I have a real life example to use.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Define proficient.

 

[HOOFER]

Define proficient.

I think we acknowledged that was a miswording on my part.

 

[SD Carpenter]

Possible 100k free torture test lol

 

[Travis224]

I'm running h4895 and 60 vmax, I think I'm in the upper 30's. Glad it wasn't worse.

 

[DIBBS]

DAYUMMMNNNNNN !!!!

I would scrap that action and put it on a plaque above the reloading bench.

PF lucky to have survived.

 

[jbuck88]

Here I was trying to decide on a ARC archimedes Or another action. Im sure I'm ordering a Archimedes now.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Assuming a 26" barrel, 44gr of Varget and a 62grain bullet at 4150 fps, with some rough Quickload calculations....

Somewhere north of 85k PSI.

That's certainly more than enough evidence to seriously call into question the Reloader's "proficiency".......

Jeebuz.....

 

[tomcatfan]

It’s good to see what an insane amount of over pressure looks like on a nuke. It’s even better to not see it personally.

 

[acudaowner]

bad bad firearm abuse .
had to add god don't like your friend any more lol he's mean to his guns .....

 

[Evintos]

@karagias @Jon_ARC

 

[TxWelder35]

I’m surprised that that brass hid the pressure signs. Sure the primer is super flat, but I would have expected to see ejector Marks long before it would let go like this.

 

[just browsing]

SHEESH

 

[CamoWhamo]

Before I even opened the thread I was betting he'd fired 6mm Creedmoor ammo in the .22 Creedmoor.

But after reading the OP's first post my next 2 thoughts were 44gn of VARGET is way too much and on top of that he's shooting what I think is a MONOLITHIC COPPER bullet.

The pressures must have been way up there.

 

[mi223]

I guess I am a little shocked that he went from supposed no or little pressure signs to complete rifle Carnage. It just seems like he would of pierced a primer or had a stuck case in 50 rounds before the gun went to peices

 

[Devildog]

That was an expensive lesson! Glad your buddy is ok.

 

[Steel head]

That poor Nuke!
I’m reporting him to Nuke protective services!!!

 

[Captrjc]

How far off bullet jam was he normally running? If he was running real close, a small screw up coupled with running super hot could cause a spike like a MOAB over Afghanistan

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Good judgment comes from experience. And most of that comes from bad judgement. - Will Rodgers

 

[whatsupdoc]

There is no way the shooter loaded 50 rounds with 44gr of varget and went through most of them without incident.

 

[Gohring65]

I’m lecturing him now… he was running them at 4150…..

Got a pic of the dude so I know who it is?
I wanna stay completely away from him when he’s at the range.
My father in law likes pushing the envelope, we get completely away from his fire breathing dragons when he shoots. Lol
But seriously, it could happen to any of us, hopefully your lecture works.
A fun hobby could’ve killed him.

 

[308pirate]

he will now be using a micrometer above the extractor groove. And maybe some quick load….

Maybe he should buy some loading manuals and read them while he's at it.

I get pushing beyond published max..........but you gotta have a fucking clue first.

 

[celltech]

Would love to see some pics of the remaining brass he has cut in half...must be paper thin at the web.

 

[308pirate]

View attachment 7759894

 

[DJL2]

Buddy was doing some load testing.. “very proficient reloader”.
My first thought was a double charge of powder.. or an overage.
He Was shooting 44 grains of Varget which he had shot previously… with no pressure signs.
Bullet hit gong. So I think it rules out an obstruction.
Sheared extractor off bolt and case head separation? Brass failure?
Brass was twice fired copper creek 22 creed brass.
62 grain controlled chaos bullets.
Criterion barrel
Luckily the action contained all the shrapnel and he just got a wake up call and a little fire ball.
Gun had 200 rounds through it.

Thanks to your buddy for illustrating why "no pressure signs" is bullshit. 44 grains of Varget? I guaran-fucking-tee there was pressure, and a lot of it. I can also guarantee that the case doesn't have the capacity to double charge - hell, I'd be surprised if 44 grains didn't crunch when he seated the projo. My suspicion is he was right on the ragged edge of what his gun/brass could handle, and for whatever reason this particular round was "the one." Might be a little heavy on charge weight, little high on engraving force... and presto.

 

[Steel head]

View attachment 7760103

Well played!

 

[orkan]

Thanks to your buddy for illustrating why "no pressure signs" is bullshit. 44 grains of Varget? I guaran-fucking-tee there was pressure, and a lot of it. I can also guarantee that the case doesn't have the capacity to double charge - hell, I'd be surprised if 44 grains didn't crunch when he seated the projo. My suspicion is he was right on the ragged edge of what his gun/brass could handle, and for whatever reason this particular round was "the one." Might be a little heavy on charge weight, little high on engraving force... and presto.

Repeated stress does unpleasant things to metal.

That's why when you're running proof loads (which is exactly what this guy was doing) you don't run 500. You run 1-3. lol


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[JBoomhauer]

22 Creedmoor Criterion barrel for sale. 50 rounds on it. Custom fluting. No lowballs. I know what I have.

 

[SD Carpenter]

The ol butter knife technique, fill the case full and wipe the top off.

 

[Chickentoast]

Repeated stress does unpleasant things to metal.

That's why when you're running proof loads (which is exactly what this guy was doing) you don't run 500. You run 1-3. lol

Just read this again last night... with all the talk of better and better brass, more and more care needs to be taken around maximums, as those signs we used to lean on as safety measures simply aren't as apparent anymore.

Understanding Pressure :: Primal Rights, Inc

Reading pressure is a required skill that all shooters must have. Whether you are shooting factory ammunition or your own handloads, you absolutely must be able to detect and interpret pressure signs on your fired brass.

www.primalrights.com

 

[Ledzep]

I can't find any published load data for 22 creed, but a 60-65gr 6mm Creed data with Varget has ~44gr as a MAX in a SAAMI chamber with Hornady brass. Necking down to .22 is definitely going to increase pressure. Hornady to a thicker brass is going to increase pressure. I'm going to ballpark guess 3-4gr over sanity.

 

[Yaremkiv]

I’m lecturing him now… he was running them at 4150…..

They never "just blow up". Glad you guys got if figured out atleast.

 

[HOOFER]

They never "just blow up". Glad you guys got if figured out atleast.

Well it’s pretty apparent that’s exactly what happened… lol it just blew up

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Pretty close to a frontal lobotomy.
That would have been a poos&wees moment.

 

[srt-4_uk]

I can't find any published load data for 22 creed, but a 60-65gr 6mm Creed data with Varget has ~44gr as a MAX in a SAAMI chamber with Hornady brass. Necking down to .22 is definitely going to increase pressure. Hornady to a thicker brass is going to increase pressure. I'm going to ballpark guess 3-4gr over sanity.

Don't forget the grenade also used a 62gr solid copper bullet...

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Probably seats them .01 off the lands with his proficiency give or take a few thou.

 

[cas6969]

"the front fell off"

Waiting for traditional pressure signs is often like waiting for your heart attack to know there's a problem.

 

[slowworm]

But seriously, it could happen to any of us, hopefully your lecture works.

Nope, some of us have tools on hand like reloading manuals, GRT and Quickload and know how to use them.

I think you meant to say it could happen to any fool who thinks he knows more than he does.

 

[Wannashootit]

Don't forget the grenade also used a 62gr solid copper bullet...

Missed that part...
Was the "lucky one" previously shooting jacketed? Running jacketed bullets on the ragged edge- and then switching to a solid would certainly be enough to turn it into that grenade.

 

[Gohring65]

Nope, some of us have tools on hand like reloading manuals, GRT and Quickload and know how to use them.

I think you meant to say it could happen to any fool who thinks he knows more than he does.

I would never get to cocky and say it could never happen to me. Things happen. This dude was being deliberate, but I some how mixed up a remington 22-250 case in with my lot of Winchester cases. I shot the rifle, it was louder and felt more recoil, I had to hammer the bolt open and the primer was gone. I haven’t even shot remington 22-250 ammo so I don’t know how I ended up with it, probably a range pick up.

 

[slowworm]

I would never get to cocky and say it could never happen to me. Things happen. This dude was being deliberate, but I some how mixed up a remington 22-250 case in with my lot of Winchester cases. I shot the rifle, it was louder and felt more recoil, I had to hammer the bolt open and the primer was gone. I haven’t even shot remington 22-250 ammo so I don’t know how I ended up with it, probably a range pick up.

Very good point, and I won't say I've never made a mistake, because I certainly have.

That said, there is a huge difference between an inadvertent slip when trying to do the right thing the right way and screwing up, and building a grenade that every data point says will be a kaboom.

 

[Gohring65]

Very good point, and I won't say I've never made a mistake, because I certainly have.

That said, there is a huge difference between an inadvertent slip when trying to do the right thing the right way and screwing up, and building a grenade that every data point says will be a kaboom.

I absolutely agree.

 

[Wannashootit]

I know there's a pressure differential between jacketed and solids.
I'm puzzled about the posts stating this was an obvious and "stupid" overcharge at 80 to over 100 KPSI.

Now, I know a 60 Sierra HP isn't a 62 grain solid- but Hodgdon's reloading data, which I've always regarded as conservative- shows 44.2 grains Varget as max load w/velocity of near 3900 and pressure under 60 KPSI.

WTF am I missing here?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

WTF am I missing here?

For starters you are looking up 6mm data.

 

[Krob95]

 

[JBoomhauer]

For starters you are looking up 6mm data.

I wonder if that is what caused this whole mess.