Thank you for the info. Besides the trigger is there anything else you plan to change out to make the gun more field-suitable?
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Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?
- Thread starter TacosGigante
- Start date
Thanks everyone for the info. For the record I own two Savages, and have no doubt about their accuracy.
right now, no. but i will change out the barrel if the groups do not improve with a fine tuned load and the new trigger. i think the new trigger will help alot. a smooth consistent break on the trigger is a must for precision rifle. i choose timney because i used them before on remingtons and bighorn actions. i have heard good things about the rifle basix trigger too.
the reason i bought a savage was , accuracy and more options for lefties. i have had no issues with the bolt or anything like that. i am rough on rifles , i shoot in the rain , in the mud and from a lot tactical precision rifle barricades. i cannot recommend the mcrees chassis enough.
the reason i bought a savage was , accuracy and more options for lefties. i have had no issues with the bolt or anything like that. i am rough on rifles , i shoot in the rain , in the mud and from a lot tactical precision rifle barricades. i cannot recommend the mcrees chassis enough.
So no extraction issues? I have heard that is another major fail point on Savages if they are run hard.
The best way to tell is to buy one, run it and see if it meets your expectations.
I've got several Savages but don't compete with rifles. But I do enjoy shooting for beers with buddies.
If I were to start running comps, and was serious, and had the skills, I'd invest in a quality build on a 700 platform or similar high end off the shelf (Sako, AI, etc). The keys to a competition gun in my mind are:
1. Function
2. Consistency
If the gun won't run, nothing else matters. If it runs, I want to be the only point of possible inconsistency in the system, not the rifle or optics. And while I do enjoy my Savages, I do see flaws in the system. While these flaws don't hinder my current useage, I would chose not to have those in a competition gun.
That being said, every platform has some flaws, it just depends on which ones you can live/work with for your particular needs.
Also, if you are going to seriously take up tactical competitions, your rifle will be the cheapest part of your system over the long run, so do it right the first time and move forward getting comfortable with your system.
I've got several Savages but don't compete with rifles. But I do enjoy shooting for beers with buddies.
If I were to start running comps, and was serious, and had the skills, I'd invest in a quality build on a 700 platform or similar high end off the shelf (Sako, AI, etc). The keys to a competition gun in my mind are:
1. Function
2. Consistency
If the gun won't run, nothing else matters. If it runs, I want to be the only point of possible inconsistency in the system, not the rifle or optics. And while I do enjoy my Savages, I do see flaws in the system. While these flaws don't hinder my current useage, I would chose not to have those in a competition gun.
That being said, every platform has some flaws, it just depends on which ones you can live/work with for your particular needs.
Also, if you are going to seriously take up tactical competitions, your rifle will be the cheapest part of your system over the long run, so do it right the first time and move forward getting comfortable with your system.
Thank you for the info. Right now I am trending towards getting a remington, if I can get the trade values to work without hurting too badly.
I will say that Savages are great rifles for trying out cartridges with the fast barrel and bolt head swaps, square range shooting, hunting and all around fun with minimal effort and cost. They do shoot well for a factory rifle (but Tikka are great out of the box too). Best of luck.
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QUOTE=tylerw02;3038213]DID if you have quarter MOA savage rifles you better take up bench rest and start kicking ass. Hell, you could probably be an FClass champ.
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First place and second place taken by my Savage 243AI at two separate IBS600yd Benchrest matches in 2010. I was shooting against guys that run in the top 10 in the country in the 600yds game. One of whom was Richard Schatz. He took 1st place at nationals that year and is always in the top shooters when he competes. Sorry, couldn't resist.
If I still shot benchrest I would probably be running a custom action just because when you get to a certain age(which all the bench rest guys are at) you desire a bit of refinement in your equipment. Doesn't always mean it'll shoot better. A Savage can definitely be made into a competent tactical rifle. I still own a lot of Savages but my pet rifles are currently a Shilen barreled Tikka 223 and a Kreiger barreled Rem700/McMillan stocked 243AI all 100%built by myself. The Savage wasn't built in my bathrobe, but I may have had my slippers on.
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First place and second place taken by my Savage 243AI at two separate IBS600yd Benchrest matches in 2010. I was shooting against guys that run in the top 10 in the country in the 600yds game. One of whom was Richard Schatz. He took 1st place at nationals that year and is always in the top shooters when he competes. Sorry, couldn't resist.
If I still shot benchrest I would probably be running a custom action just because when you get to a certain age(which all the bench rest guys are at) you desire a bit of refinement in your equipment. Doesn't always mean it'll shoot better. A Savage can definitely be made into a competent tactical rifle. I still own a lot of Savages but my pet rifles are currently a Shilen barreled Tikka 223 and a Kreiger barreled Rem700/McMillan stocked 243AI all 100%built by myself. The Savage wasn't built in my bathrobe, but I may have had my slippers on.
I just recently learned this lesson the hard way. Trigger design that is just plain inferior, no matter what aftermarket trigger you throw at it, hit and miss feeding, and just general crude functioning in general. It was extremely accurate, and if that is all that matters to you, they are great. For matches and/or reliability, dont walk, RUN.
Have a new AI AX and there is no turning back from such an incredible machine. I am now ruined for anything else.
Have a new AI AX and there is no turning back from such an incredible machine. I am now ruined for anything else.
Good shooting but once you rebarrel, it's not a savage factory rifle anymore.
What barrel were you runnin?
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What barrel were you runnin?
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I ran my factory 10PC in .308 at one of Woody's matches pretty hard, never had a problem other than the nut behind the trigger.
It was just trued had a 6.5CM barrel installed by Fred @ SSS, last stop is at Manners now getting a stock fitted. Might be a bit before I can give another report. I have no doubt that it will run with other types of actions in any type of shooting.
Factory remington rifles do nothing for me, the only part I would use would be the action and it would go to a smith for machine work.
It was just trued had a 6.5CM barrel installed by Fred @ SSS, last stop is at Manners now getting a stock fitted. Might be a bit before I can give another report. I have no doubt that it will run with other types of actions in any type of shooting.
Factory remington rifles do nothing for me, the only part I would use would be the action and it would go to a smith for machine work.
Yeah, but that's also true with the majority of most Savage owners and builders. Keep the action, throw everything else away and replace it.
mmm remington says it took all the things that make a rifle accurate and reliable and put it in the new model 783, damn if it don't look like a savage?
straight from the horses mouth. don't need to say anything else.
straight from the horses mouth. don't need to say anything else.
783s are cheap pieces of crap made to replace their wal-mart special 710/770 rifles.
What does this thread have to do with Remington?
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What does this thread have to do with Remington?
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Just to be clear, 783 is a derivative of Marlin XS7 series and in my experience have been great rifles.
Nothing can "replace" 770; but just like Star Wars Xmas Special - you KNOW it's out there!
FWIW, I had a savage precision carbine in 308/ I've had $8k custom rifles and for some reason that thing was one of my favorites. It was just a laser, right out of the box. I remember shooting 5 shot groups wondering where my shots were, and finding they were in one hole. No joke. Now, it wouldn't do it from a bipod. Actually, the groups were terrible from a bipod. I think this was due to the shitty stock. But from a bench on sandbags, I had this little $900 gun hitting 4" groups at 850 yards along side guys with $6k custom rifles. I know there are some who don't believe this, in this very thread. But if these guys were here they would tell you the same thing. On the other hand my brothers savage 111 270 won't group for shit regardless of the method of fire, so go figure.
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I don't think anyone is saying Savages aren't accurate, because they are. But that is only part of the equation of being a competition rifle, especially tactical matches where function trumps all. If it won't run and run fast, it's a liability.
Something ain't right with your logic - I really don't see a whole lot of AK47s being employed.
Savage design is solid, especially from reliability point of view. There are some things that have to be properly adjusted and regularly maintained - but it is not out of norm for any rifle.
I've started and ran two threads about Savage and Remington actions - let me tell you, the only real difference from operator's point of view has to do with bolt lift: are you willing to deal with heavy bolt lift as the price for insane locktime?
Barrel nut, trigger, extraction, ejection - are all trivial, but fanboys like to make it sound like such a big deal one way or another.
MoBoost said:
I like Savages probably more than the next guy...but extraction and ejection aren't what I would call "trivial".
Spiting-hairs accuracy might not determine the winner, but you MUST have enough accuracy to engage the targets - hard to win with 0 points for a miss. "I wish my rig wasn't so damn accurate" said no one ever!
Both can be addressed with a bit of know-how - spacer here and there - it is indeed trivial. The fact that it is not properly addressed from the factory every time is pretty annoying.
Agreed. Again, I never said accuracy wasn't a highly important factor. Where you may rank accuracy #1, I would rank function #1. To each his own.. run what you like.
Might possibly have something to do with the top tactical shooters using custom actions.
The ability of a Savage action to "be made into a competent tactical gun" isn't necessarily dismissed by a lack of them winning 'significant tactical matches'.
Absolutely if you ask me if I would put my life on the line with a savage YES I WOULD especially this one
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Very true. What I was getting at was I could have went with a 700 but decided to put money into the Savage since I liked it so much out of the box. I've had a few custom 700s and some out of the box turds, those turds are what turned me on to Savage. Not saying I won't ever own a 700 again but doubt it.
If this "new" rifle doesn't run like it should, I will go through the process of finding out what it needs. If still not up to par then, more than likely will try a TRG for a comp gun and cut down the Savage for a deer rifle.
When one looks at the "top 50" results from the PRS, some things do stand out. Surgeon and Defiance 39 of the 50 spots, Trued Remington 700s had 5 spots, Tikka T3 was tied with AI both having 2 spots. Just as important are the stocks used by the pros. A lot of guys buy all kinds of "super stocks" but they are not found on any of the top shooters rifles, you have to ask "what makes them super"? Caliber, If the vast majority of the winners are shooter a handful of calibers, why would anyone want to shoot a round that is not winning? In the world of bare-stock rifles, Savage has shown themselves to be quite competitive in F class (again bare-bone-stock). But based on what the winners use, if you aren't running a Surgeon or Defiance action, in a 6mm flavor, a Mc Stock, you're not winning.
Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?
His logic is quite sound. Yours is not.
An AK doesn't have the trajectory or accuracy required.
If accuracy were the primary requirement, you'd see bench rest rifles on the lines. You don't, though. Why? Perhaps rethink what the post you quoted meant.
Guns that don't function don't do well. If you make one hit out of the gate and then have feeding, extraction, and ejection problems, you don't do so well. However if you can shoot 1 MOA in every position and do it under time, you'll win every match you go to. Accuracy isn't the limiting factor with any of the quality bolt guns. Some guys have Savage actions that run well. If you so, rock on.
Serious question for you, have you ever shot PRS style matches?
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His logic is quite sound. Yours is not.
An AK doesn't have the trajectory or accuracy required.
If accuracy were the primary requirement, you'd see bench rest rifles on the lines. You don't, though. Why? Perhaps rethink what the post you quoted meant.
Guns that don't function don't do well. If you make one hit out of the gate and then have feeding, extraction, and ejection problems, you don't do so well. However if you can shoot 1 MOA in every position and do it under time, you'll win every match you go to. Accuracy isn't the limiting factor with any of the quality bolt guns. Some guys have Savage actions that run well. If you so, rock on.
Serious question for you, have you ever shot PRS style matches?
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I do not shoot PRS-style matches for various reasons, equipment snobbery would be high on my list.
I know match directors try their damnedest to make the skill count but the sport surely grew quickly into the most outrageous equipment race: like someone mentioned above - if you ain't shooting a $8k stick you are not a contender; I assure you, parts and work that goes into building those is by all means "benchrest" quality and then some.
Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?
I'd say your quite delusional. You see a quite a few guys with more like 3k rigs than 8k.
It's about the shooter and reliable gear. Most of the top guys could win with factory rifles over guts with 8k rigs that can't utilize them. Yeah lots of those guys could win with a factory Savage so long as it runs right, same with Remington, Tikka, Howa, etc. Nobody chooses Savage if they can get something else. This is called a clue.
If a Savage is just as good, why would it be an equipment race to win? You can't have it both ways. I have my own problems with the way some of the PRS stuff is run, too, but overall its cool stuff. There are also similarly run matches all over that aren't PRS affiliated. From my experience the majority of the people are awesome guys, they let you play with their gear, are willing to help with tips and advice, and are just generally fun to be around. There are some guys that take things way too seriously and get in their zone, but that isn't the norm. I haven't seen ANYBODY that was a gear snob that put somebody down for their gear. So if you haven't been, how can you make such statements? I think that's just your cop-out to get by with outlandish statements. You don't get a pass.
I find the advice from guys that have never shot these type of matches funny. Maybe you guys could offer med students advice on how to perform heart surgery?
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I'd say your quite delusional. You see a quite a few guys with more like 3k rigs than 8k.
It's about the shooter and reliable gear. Most of the top guys could win with factory rifles over guts with 8k rigs that can't utilize them. Yeah lots of those guys could win with a factory Savage so long as it runs right, same with Remington, Tikka, Howa, etc. Nobody chooses Savage if they can get something else. This is called a clue.
If a Savage is just as good, why would it be an equipment race to win? You can't have it both ways. I have my own problems with the way some of the PRS stuff is run, too, but overall its cool stuff. There are also similarly run matches all over that aren't PRS affiliated. From my experience the majority of the people are awesome guys, they let you play with their gear, are willing to help with tips and advice, and are just generally fun to be around. There are some guys that take things way too seriously and get in their zone, but that isn't the norm. I haven't seen ANYBODY that was a gear snob that put somebody down for their gear. So if you haven't been, how can you make such statements? I think that's just your cop-out to get by with outlandish statements. You don't get a pass.
I find the advice from guys that have never shot these type of matches funny. Maybe you guys could offer med students advice on how to perform heart surgery?
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I am sure there are plenty $3k rifles - there is a huge gap between participating and winning though.
Nobody?! What about all those guys who posted pictures of their Savages in this thread?
Except for you just did ....
You're really showing your ignorance. You've never even BEEN so how can you say anything? You're ignorant of the subject at hand. Last match I saw Gardner shooting in, he had his Templar action, Bartlein barrel, Manners T3, PTG bottom metal, and a Bushnell HDMR. Figure its a $1000 action, $400 stock, $100 bottom metal, and $1300 scope. I don't know the trigger or rings, but I think it was a Remington trigger. A far cry from an $8k rig. I'd wager, even if you included what smithing would cost, a guy could duplicate it for well under $4k.
Most of the guys in this thread aren't PRS competitors are they? I'll bet you could ask most of the people here and they wouldn't pick Savage if they had an unlimited budget. I'll wager that most guys that have Savage actions is that they started with a $600 or $700 factory rifle and eventually ditched the stock, barrel, bottom metal, etc. to get to where they are. A few may like them just because they like to tinker themselves. If you're buying a complete Savage, how much are you saving over sourcing out the parts and a custom action from the get go?
Who did I put down? What did I say that put them down? I didn't put anybody down, actually. The best shooters choose something, but no matter what their choice, they are the best shooters---those guys choose the gear they do because its the easiest route to get what they need and desire. Those guys will out-shoot you with a Howa, Savage, Remington, Tikka, etc so long as they have a rifle that functions. The shooter is the most important element followed by gear that is durable and functions.
Its not "snobbery" that keeps you from showing up. Its your fragile ego that can't accept that there are guys that shoot better than you. Its easier to cry from the sidelines that its the gear that makes the man---"if only I had an 8k rig I would be a top competitor". Bull....
So again, which is it? Savage is just as good OR is it all an arms race? Tell me or let your hypocrisy stand.
Tyler, he's a blithering idiot. Best advice I could give you is to add him to your ignore list like I did.
Top shooters get sponsored or are gun smiths themselves which is why they all have Surgeons and defiance actions. If I had the ability to shoot well enough to get the PRS finals with a semi stock savage or remington, I bet you one of the top builders would offer me a sponsorship and I would be stupid not to shoot their rifles for free. The only way I would not accept a sponsorship from them is if Savage offered me more to shoot for them. In PRS unlike benchrest, it's more about the shooter than the gun. They aren't shooting for groups and correct me if I'm wrong, none of their targets require more than MOA of accuracy. It's about hitting targets at all distances on the first shot from all kinds of weird positions while running around.
You are talking about Garnder, the George Gardner, the "GAP" George Gardner? What you described is basically a Crusader; that rifle base price is $4k before muzzle brake, magazines, trigger and glass. You might have Joe-Blow thow something together for under $4k before glass ... but it ain't going to be George's rifle by a long shot.
I shoot 5 different matches EVERY single month year around, and sometimes 6 (like this month). My ego is fine. Of course shooter is the most important part, but at equal skill level equipment makes HUGE difference - if you don't see it, you might open your horizons like shooting USPSA or three-gun. Right now PRS is setup in "OPEN" format - which forces the money fed arms race, if your equipment is not upto par you have NO chance of winning. And why compete if you are not trying to win? Just go bang some steel and save the entry fee money.
The question wasn't if Savage is as good as the best GAP has to offer - that's a ridicules and insulting notion. The question was if Savage can be a competent tactical rifle - and those who did said yes, and those who can't get the Remington's nutsuck taste out of their mouth refuse to acknowledge it - AKA being snobs.
Lol it takes 1 MOA to win, Savage is competent? But it takes an arms race to win. Oh and using a Remington or clone makes you a snob.
The idiot is now ignored.
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A lot of the savage are already a competent tactical rifle to start with!!
The model 10fcp-sr even has a 20 moa base and 10 round AI style mag out if the box!!
I am not saying it is a gap! However I will take 12lrp over any rem 700 any day!
The model 10fcp-sr even has a 20 moa base and 10 round AI style mag out if the box!!
I am not saying it is a gap! However I will take 12lrp over any rem 700 any day!
This is the single biggest bone headed mentality shit on this website.
ONCE AGAIN, what you and many here fail to understand is......1 or 2 or even 10 guns are not a representative sample of Tens or Hundreds of thousands of guns. Any Mouth breather in a high school level statistics class will tell you there is almost a zero level of confidence in such a small sample.
There are people out there who had Ford/BridgeStone combos that did not blow out and kill their family.
There are people out there who have Counter Sniper scopes that work for them
There are people out there that had reliable YUGO's
There are people out there who have shitty products who either don't hit the statistical lottery or they don't use it hard/fast/voluminous enough to see those problems creep up as the statistical pendulum swings.
SO GREAT, you have a rifle thats 50 years old (that has craftsmanship, material and attention to detail that does not to compare to current shitty, mass produced MIM and rough parts) that has been used as a hunting gun (shot a few times each hunting season.... I have 1 year old AR's and AK's that have 10 times the round count of your 50 year old rifle) and that now somehow related to how a current savage will stack up to heavy use/comp guns?
L O L
Absolutely if you ask me if I would put my life on the line with a savage YES I WOULD especially this one
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Not everyones lives are worth the same..........
I hate Remington actions.........but they are superior in every way to Savage.
Ask ANY of the competent and renowened LR/Precision Shooting instructors what their thoughts on savages are. You know, the guys that see 6-12 new rifles every week or other week for years.....people from all walks of life bringing every brand of gear made...........
EVERY SINGLE ONE, I have spoken with, has said that they are absolute junk. A handfull of them even claimed, they have yet to see 1 (One, UNO) make it through one of their classes without seizing up or having a parts failure. That is all you need to know about savage.
Do they make accurate, cheap rifles? Yea. Are they find for most hunters who only need to shoot 5-10 MOA? Yea......................are they pieces of shit compared to quality actions like Tikka, Howa, M70 or a Printed M700? Yep
Only a FOOL would trust his life or his lively hood to one. Good thing fools lives aren't worth much.
Wow a real live savagesphobe!!! Man there is something seriously wrong with you
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