Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?

[TacosGigante]

What I learned is that I am better off with a Ruger.

Seriously though. I apologize for being careless. I didn't mean for the threat to become a Ford vs. Chevy screaming match and should have phrased the question more carefully. That said, I think I got some excellent info and appreciate everyone's insight.

So was the original question ever answered???

 

[tylerw02]

Can a Savage be made into a competent tactical gun?

Next threads: Glock vs 1911.

Can a 1911 be made into a competent duty gun?

Can a Choate Ultimate Sniper Stock be used to win?

Can a Honda Civic be made into a competent Rally car?

Can I lose weight eating nothin but McDonalds?



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[E. Bryant]

Blah blah blah

Man, you got me - I don't have the name-calling A-game to compete with you.

Now, can you please contribute to the topic with your own relevant experiences and observations (not grade-school trash-talking, and not simple regurgitation of a chart or graph that someone else put together)?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

So was the original question ever answered???

Yes, but it is down to two different arguments. No it is a POS. Yes it is a POS. I say Yes. Some people say No. I made a few mistakes along the way.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Next threads: Glock vs 1911.

Can a 1911 be made into a competent duty gun?

Can a Choate Ultimate Sniper Stock be used to win?

Can a Honda Civic be made into a competent Rally car?

Can I lose weight eating nothin but McDonalds?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, I'm not the only one that noticed the title of threads lately.

 

[finbox]

I own multiple Rem 700s and use a Sako TRG .260 as my main match rifle. I have 10k+ rounds under my belt.

The best 100 yard 5 round group I have ever shot (.387 measured from edge to edge, it was one hole) was with a friends stock savage .308 with hand loads.

 

[silver-duck]

I own two savage's that I shoot in F-class.I am not a very experienced shooter.Both my .223 and 6.5CM have Shilen barrels that I put on them.
In Feb. I shot a 600 yard match with the 6.5 using copper creek 139 L.S. ammo.It was the first match with this gun.
196-8x 197-6x 195-6x =588-20X this say;s that out of 60 rounds, 20 were in a 3"group@ 600 yards
I think Savages shoot fine[my .223 has a lot of rounds through it with zero problems.

 

[MoBoost]

That's far more important than your fragile ego, arguing to support your choice of shooting a savage, rem, tikka, or whatever.

Serious question - why did you sell $4000 GAP and bought a $6000 AI?

I have re-read the thread and have to apologize for calling you a "douche" since it was obviously not your intention. I might sound ignorant to you because I've never shot PRS match; you sound ignorant to me because you don't know anything about Savages or lower end market in general (starting with 783 comment).

Here is the OP: My question is: with the increased amount of aftermarket parts could you turn a savage action into a competent tactical gun, or are there inherent and inescapable weaknesses to the system?

I believe with my experience in the field and non-tactical matches WITH SAVAGES gives me full right to express my opinions while you have no leg to stand on other than ignorance aka "I haven't seen", "show it to me", "I've heard they are unreliable", etc etc etc.

 

[pawprint2]

If using well researched data (and well presented) is to make ones point isn't up to edna Bryant's standards, well that just speaks for itself-there are always some that just hate to be faced with facts! Edna still hasn't responded to the stupid, and ill-informed post, where he/she? believes the PRS only has 50 competitors-and they all live in the same region. In his/her twisted mind, I'm sure they all live in the same commune! This is not the case, just the ramblings of a social outcast with a superiority complex.

 

[BoilerUP]

This thread:

The factual, objective answer to the OP's question is: YES, a Savage can be made into a competent tactical gun.

Accuracy is important, but reliability is paramount in a "working" gun...and objectively speaking a 700 has fewer issues with reliability (which I consider to be feeding, extraction and ejection) than a Savage Well, until the bolt handle breaks off the 700 anyway, in which case you're left with a more competent tactical club. And if I'm carrying a rifle into combat, give me an AI that is plenty accurate enough yet overbuilt in typical British fashion for the sake of reliability under duress.

But PRS isn't combat, and neither is hunting, banging steel, punching holes in paper or any other type competition. And with a little bit of work by a competent gunsmith like Rayhill or Moreo, a Savage can easily be as reliable in those disciplines as any trued 700. Well, until the 700's bolt handle breaks off anyway, in which case you're left with a tactical club.

Which only serves to reinforce the point that having a smith check out your shit and evaluate it for stuff that needs addressing is the best thing one can do to make any rifle they have "more reliable".

Bottom line? Arguing on the internet about this stuff is stupid - buy what you want without two shits given about what some guy on the internet says about it. Shoot it, objectively learn its strengths and weaknesses for yourself, and decide if it meets your needs. If so great, if not move it down the road and chalk it up to experience (which is vital in this vocation).

 

[tylerw02]

Experience is a great teacher, but a fool learns no other way. That's what my father used to tell me.


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[MoBoost]

Well now that this thread has deteriorated into name-calling, people acting like victims, and all the rest...

I changed my mind - you are a DOUCHE!!!! You started name calling (post #144), and now behaving like a victim .... with "hug your kids" and "my daddy told me" sentimental crap.

Stick to the point - do you own a Savage?

 

[bmt]

this thread:

The factual, objective answer to the op's question is: Yes, a savage can be made into a competent tactical gun.

Accuracy is important, but reliability is paramount in a "working" gun...and objectively speaking a 700 has fewer issues with reliability (which i consider to be feeding, extraction and ejection) than a savage well, until the bolt handle breaks off the 700 anyway, in which case you're left with a more competent tactical club. And if i'm carrying a rifle into combat, give me an ai that is plenty accurate enough yet overbuilt in typical british fashion for the sake of reliability under duress.

But prs isn't combat, and neither is hunting, banging steel, punching holes in paper or any other type competition. And with a little bit of work by a competent gunsmith like rayhill or moreo, a savage can easily be as reliable in those disciplines as any trued 700. Well, until the 700's bolt handle breaks off anyway, in which case you're left with a tactical club.

Which only serves to reinforce the point that having a smith check out your shit and evaluate it for stuff that needs addressing is the best thing one can do to make any rifle they have "more reliable".

Bottom line? Arguing on the internet about this stuff is stupid - buy what you want without two shits given about what some guy on the internet says about it. Shoot it, objectively learn its strengths and weaknesses for yourself, and decide if it meets your needs. If so great, if not move it down the road and chalk it up to experience (which is vital in this vocation).

winner

 

[MoBoost]

Bottom line? Arguing on the internet about this stuff is stupid - buy what you want without two shits given about what some guy on the internet says about it. Shoot it, objectively learn its strengths and weaknesses for yourself, and decide if it meets your needs. If so great, if not move it down the road and chalk it up to experience (which is vital in this vocation).

Well, isn't the whole point of this site is to share said experiences (not assumptions and hearsay)

 

[Bender]

 

[Deleted member 10043]

The OP said he has a Ruger. Shit! To stay consistent anyone without Ruger needs to start shitting on Ruger rifles. I have a No. 1 so I'm out.

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[tylerw02]

I've got or have had pretty much all of them. Guess I can't crap on my crappy Ruger?

Well, one thing I can say, despite it being inaccurate, having a sloppy trigger, it always feeds and the bolt handle hasn't come off yet.


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[TacosGigante]

I don't own a Ruger, it was a joke. I used to own a Ruger M77 hunting rifle. It was fine.

The OP said he has a Ruger. Shit! To stay consistent anyone without Ruger needs to start shitting on Ruger rifles. I have a No. 1 so I'm out.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Why did you post something on the Internet that is not true.

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[TacosGigante]

Ah, I said that I was better off with one, not that I had one. I am rarely if ever better off.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I like your style.

BTW, my Ruger has a hammer and anvil trigger system and appears to be designed to take out a Rhino at about 100 feet.

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[TacosGigante]

Perfect for a live action version of "The Ghost and the Darkness"

I like your style.

BTW, my Ruger has a hammer and anvil trigger system and appears to be designed to take out a Rhino at about 100 feet.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

 

[E. Bryant]

If using well researched data (and well presented) is to make ones point isn't up to edna Bryant's standards, well that just speaks for itself-there are always some that just hate to be faced with facts! Edna still hasn't responded to the stupid, and ill-informed post, where he/she? believes the PRS only has 50 competitors-and they all live in the same region. In his/her twisted mind, I'm sure they all live in the same commune! This is not the case, just the ramblings of a social outcast with a superiority complex.

Understood - you've got nothing but name-calling and verbal insults.

Any other tired retreads you'd like to throw out there, or do you actually want to talk about your own experiences shooting?

 

[ahhshoot]

I'm posting because... we've all been through a lot together on this thread and... well.. I guess I just don't want to see it die

 

[sav338lapua]

hey everybody buy what they want and go have fun shooting!!!! and if your not having fun maybe you need to find something else to do lol lol lol lol

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I'm posting because... we've all been through a lot together on this thread and... well.. I guess I just don't want to see it die

Well, I guess it's not like it used to be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jREUrbGGrgM

 

[bmt]

I'm posting because... we've all been through a lot together on this thread and... well.. I guess I just don't want to see it die

Are we getting to the part where the drunk says "I love you guys".

BMT

 

[AXEMAN]

I ant believe I read this whole thread. but I like that post with The Band. did you know the guy singing and playing drums is the old man in Shooter?

and man there sure are some name droppers in this thread huh?

 

[ArmyJerry]

Weak poing on the Remmy is accuracy out of the box as well as the bolt handle, only weak point I have ever experienced on a Savage is Extraction / Ejection issues, and that is on every one I own. I m considering getting rid of a few of my savages and going over to the remmy action because of the extraction ejection issue.

This thread:

The factual, objective answer to the OP's question is: YES, a Savage can be made into a competent tactical gun.

Accuracy is important, but reliability is paramount in a "working" gun...and objectively speaking a 700 has fewer issues with reliability (which I consider to be feeding, extraction and ejection) than a Savage Well, until the bolt handle breaks off the 700 anyway, in which case you're left with a more competent tactical club. And if I'm carrying a rifle into combat, give me an AI that is plenty accurate enough yet overbuilt in typical British fashion for the sake of reliability under duress.

But PRS isn't combat, and neither is hunting, banging steel, punching holes in paper or any other type competition. And with a little bit of work by a competent gunsmith like Rayhill or Moreo, a Savage can easily be as reliable in those disciplines as any trued 700. Well, until the 700's bolt handle breaks off anyway, in which case you're left with a tactical club.

Which only serves to reinforce the point that having a smith check out your shit and evaluate it for stuff that needs addressing is the best thing one can do to make any rifle they have "more reliable".

Bottom line? Arguing on the internet about this stuff is stupid - buy what you want without two shits given about what some guy on the internet says about it. Shoot it, objectively learn its strengths and weaknesses for yourself, and decide if it meets your needs. If so great, if not move it down the road and chalk it up to experience (which is vital in this vocation).

 

[bmt]

Weak poing on the Remmy is accuracy out of the box as well as the bolt handle, only weak point I have ever experienced on a Savage is Extraction / Ejection issues, and that is on every one I own. I m considering getting rid of a few of my savages and going over to the remmy action because of the extraction ejection issue.

On the Savage, clean the Bolt inside and out with Brake Cleaner. Do not lube the bolt

100% solution in my guns.

BMT

 

[ahhshoot]

Well, I guess it's not like it used to be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jREUrbGGrgM

This is awesome. Zac Brown Band does a great version of this tune as well

 

[lead ƒarmer]

On the Savage, clean the Bolt inside and out with Brake Cleaner. Do not lube the bolt

100% solution in my guns.

BMT

No lube anywhere? Not even the lugs? I ask because I've had some issues with extraction

sent from my POS phone

 

[silver-duck]

I clean and lube the bolt's on my Savages before every match. ZERO PROBLEM'S!

 

[7magsavage]

When people talk about reliability issues with savages, what are they talking about?

I mean specifically?

 

[memilanuk]

In my experience, typically extraction/ejection. My 12 F/TR (s) & Palma (s) in .308 & .223 spit cases out as reliably as I could wish for. My 10 PC-SR in .308 is pretty good that way too.

My 12LRP in 6.5CM... has been a trial, being particularly sensitive to the undersized extractor groove on some batches of Hornady brass. Pretty sure that with 'normal' brass the problem would disappear, but until I have time to test...

The factory ejector & spring need some TLC; one real hot load will usually kill the stock spring.

The funny thing is that I can remember having to do similar DIY fixes to the ejector spring on Rem700s back when I used to run those....

Sent from my Samsung S4

 

[BoilerUP]

In my experience, typically extraction/ejection.

Yup...as has been mentioned multiple times upthread.

Sharp Shooter Supply sells an enhanced extraction/ejection kit for $8 that has a larger detent ball for the extractor, modified ejector and new ejector spring and fixes many of the issues people experience.

Many others have experienced feed issues (mine have been with older staggerfeed short actions, no issues with centerfeed short actions) and some have issue with the trigger but I am admittedly ignorant as to that particular gripe.

 

[shoots100]

When people talk about reliability issues with savages, what are they talking about?

I mean specifically?

Their talking about comparing the reliability of a savage rifle to an AI or custom rifle, which a stock rifle from any manufacturer can't compare to either.
Mostly it's because a Savage isn't a Remington.
All of the savage "issues" can be taken care of cheaply and without the need of a gunsmith, so it's not really an issue as far as I'm concerned.
Most of the issues are user preference or cosmetic issues.
Some don't like the bolt lockup time, or the look of the barrel nut, or that Savage won't sponsor them.
Savage has had Extractor and feed issues, which I had on some of my custom builds too, but I'm not the typical whiner ass hat tactical ninja shooter and called the builder, searched the forums + the web and fixed it myself.
I could've come on this forum and bitched, but I'd have to stand in line and I'd rather be out shooting.
Not everyone can afford a custom build and a savage fits the bill until you can.
The cost savings will let you buy better optics, which can always be switched to a better rifle.

 

[bmt]

No lube anywhere? Not even the lugs? I ask because I've had some issues with extraction

sent from my POS phone

Does the spent case come out of the chamber? If so, then it is an EJECTION problem. I find that guys let the ejector plunger and spring get gummed up. Brake cleaner fixes it fast.

 

[bmt]

I clean and lube the bolt's on my Savages before every match. ZERO PROBLEM'S!

That is what I would expect, no gunk, no problems!

BMT

 

[darth_ritis]

I find this thread interesting, not only because I have both brands in the safe, but also because the Savage is my project gun this year.

 

[siscoe308]

I wrote off Savage for good when I saw the bolt on my dads 308 scout rifle break in half. They overnighted him the replacement parts tho & Offered to pay for a full inspect and sent him a bunch of swag but still it was scary thing. New rifle with 200-300 factory loads down the tube, good shooting rifle, freak story I'm sure. My 2 cents

 

[memilanuk]

Freak story or not, seeing that firsthand would shake confidence in any brand.

Sent from my Samsung S4

 

[BoilerUP]

Evidently an unmodified Savage 10PC won Top 308 at the Snipers Hide Cup this year...

 

[D_TROS]

Evidently an unmodified Savage 10PC won Top 308 at the Snipers Hide Cup this year...

Was just going to comment on this. He is my friend and shot in my squad. Its not a stock savage. AND he had extraction issues that nearly cost him top 308 (won by 1 pt). On the movers he went 4 for 4 before he got a spent case stuck in action and had to stop. He did win a sweet rifle and Im very proud of his accomplishment, but you can rest assured he wont shoot that rifle in a competition anymore!!

With custom rifles you pay for consistency. What that is worth is up to you.

Regards,
DT

 

[ArmyJerry]

Says the remmy fan boy hehehehe. J/K

Glad the Savage and your friend won, wondering what he had done to the rifle?

Was just going to comment on this. He is my friend and shot in my squad. Its not a stock savage. AND he had extraction issues that nearly cost him top 308 (won by 1 pt). On the movers he went 4 for 4 before he got a spent case stuck in action and had to stop. He did win a sweet rifle and Im very proud of his accomplishment, but you can rest assured he wont shoot that rifle in a competition anymore!!

With custom rifles you pay for consistency. What that is worth is up to you.

Regards,
DT

 

[BoilerUP]

Its not a stock savage.

In the AAR thread, he posted "Savage model 10, precision carbine, no after market mods". Did state he used Dark Eagle 10rd magazines, but factory barrel, Accustock and Accutrigger.

Given that, I too am curious how it wasn't "stock".

I am also curious if your friend's malfunction was the only time a rifle of any make had a mechanical issue during the Cup, and if his issue was a result of overpressure or a failure in the bolt head.

His 10PC may not have been 'optimal' for competition...but the results indicate it does seem to have been 'competent'.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Reference to my posts above dealing with ejection issues, I talked to Kevin at stockade and Kif at PTG, Skip confirms that the PTG bolt head is tighter tolerance and will cure the ejection issue. I ordered two for my 223 and 308, if they work I will send them out to get worked over by Kevin or Larry Racine. If they dont work I will be getting some remmy actions and sending them into Chad at LRI to get the full monty, the 260 he did for me works great and is as smooth as warm butter.

 

[D_TROS]

In the AAR thread, he posted "Savage model 10, precision carbine, no after market mods". Did state he used Dark Eagle 10rd magazines, but factory barrel, Accustock and Accutrigger.

Given that, I too am curious how it wasn't "stock".

I am also curious if your friend's malfunction was the only time a rifle of any make had a mechanical issue during the Cup, and if his issue was a result of overpressure or a failure in the bolt head.

His 10PC may not have been 'optimal' for competition...but the results indicate it does seem to have been 'competent'.

Hmmm will text him. Knew about mags, but for some reason I thought his stock and trigger had been worked on. Wont be the first time I was wrong (yikes!)

As to the malfunction, I know of several malfunctions during the match, my trigger included. Lucky I had a spare. You implying me insinuating only savages go down is misunderstood. Just stating some facts not drawing any conclusions as I owe more to shooter ability than any gear.

And even tho not clearly written, I was saying him using a savage and beating others who had customs was a fantastic accomplishment (esp due to several bringing custom 308's with intent to win the free rifle)

As to stuck case, there was little to no pressure signs and the extraction issues were sporadic. Our guess was more due to case irregularities than anything. Don't think he had any issues the last day.

Regards,
Remmy Fanboy


eta - the mags ARE a very significant modification, esp in a match with time constraints and min 10rnd stages. If he didn't have that mod he wouldn't have placed half as high as he did. That's another fact to chew on

 

[BoilerUP]

You implying me insinuating only savages go down is misunderstood.

I wasn't trying to imply that, but I understand how it could have been taken that way.

Throughout this thread, a number of people have lamented the relative unreliability of the Savage action in a tactical and/or competitive situation - myself included. Then, when a Savage wins an award at a major tactical competition, you (and another gentleman in the AAR thread) immediately mention the stuck case and it seemed as if that stuck case verified the inherent unreliability of the Savage action relative to other options. It is that reason that I asked about other rifle malfunctions...as I was genuinely curious if other action types also went down in the course of the match or if it was the Savage alone.

Other rifles going down too doesn't mean the complaints about a Savage's weaknesses aren't valid (I own 3 and they most certainly are) but simply that other models aren't necessarily the sewing machines some make them out to be.

Ergo, competence.

And you're right about the shooter's performance being fantastic...

 

[bmt]

H

And even tho not clearly written, I was saying him using a savage and beating others who had customs was a fantastic accomplishment (esp due to several bringing custom 308's with intent to win the free rifle)

Therefore, a Savage DOES make a competent tactical rifle.

BMT