Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!

#5,251
.
Terry Cross said:
No adjustable latch on the Mk1 or Gen II M5 DBMs . . . . yet.

The body of the latch is already oversized to take the mods which are being ironed out for a competition version of the Zealot chassis. Whenever the Adj. Latches are out, they will be direct swap capable with the current fixed latches on the KMW DBMs.

We honestly aren't having any issues with the AW mags running under Defiance, Impact and MacBros receivers with the non adjustable latches.
The 3 lug BF on the CDG should scoop rounds up quite well compared to a 2 lug.

*I have sold DBMs to owners of CDG but have no clue if they are running AWs
**As with any DBM system, the vertical offset/pillar height is crucial. It is doubly crucial if running AW mags and 2 lug BFs.
*** All the KMW DBMs now have the Captv-Mag tabs at the top of the mag box housing to keep mags from skewing or pushing into the bolt path enough to bind however this feature only works as designed with AICS pattern mags. AW mags will run in them but the Captv-Mag tabs do not limit the AW body like the AICS body.

Thanks for asking.

.
Click to expand...
Your captv-mag feature looks a lot like the aics height limiter inside a rem700 atx chassis. I had to remove it for aw mags to latch up in the chassis.
 
#5,254
4O6shootist said:
.
Your captv-mag feature looks a lot like the aics height limiter inside a rem700 atx chassis. I had to remove it for aw mags to latch up in the chassis.
Click to expand...
Same idea with different execution.
Mine are integral to the DBM or chassis instead of bolted on. Mine also allow AW mags to lock in without interference.

We were seeing too many people induce feeding malfunctions or binding their bolt when pushing into barricades, hoods, windows, and even when supporting off-hand via the bottom of the magazine. Wanted something a user could fit to a conventional stock and prevent the issues. Worked so well that I migrated the CAD over to the Zealot chassis.

.
 
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#5,255
Baron23 said:
Wow, Terry....thanks for taking the time to write such a complete response.

I do have a friend who has a rifle built by Joe Walls and I handled it last year. It had you DBM and I thought it was just beautifully made. Now, this was AICS and it worked perfectly.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Thank you sir.
Joe Walls is the shit.

I think his new brand is going to do quite well.
.
 
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#5,256
Quasi CDG question. I have a bore guide from Mike Lucas for a Bore tech rod. 24" barrel on the CDG. I'm about to order a Bore Stix from them. Lengths are 40 44 50 56 60 inches. Anyone can suggest a good length on such a setup? I could guess based on sheer measures, but I suspect first hand experience here will trump my guess. Thanks!
 
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#5,257
Sentinel89 said:
Here you go.
And beauty pics, while the barrel is on order..
OI8Sj6P.jpg
Click to expand...

I put in a request for them to utilize the polymer mag well from the Kraken that takes DSSF 338 mags. I'm no engineer but it seems like that's the whole point of their interchangeable poly mag well system. #options
 
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#5,258
fmorelli said:
Quasi CDG question. I have a bore guide from Mike Lucas for a Bore tech rod. 24" barrel on the CDG. I'm about to order a Bore Stix from them. Lengths are 40 44 50 56 60 inches. Anyone can suggest a good length on such a setup? I could guess based on sheer measures, but I suspect first hand experience here will trump my guess. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Pretty sure 44” will work. I just ordered a rod and I have a 26” barrel.
 
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#5,259
poorboah said:
Looking for some insight for an issue I’m having with my CDG. Getting light primer strikes. I’m pretty confident I have the trigger hanger set up correctly, no drop or cock on close. I watched and rewatched Teds video on how to set it up.
as perfect as I try to make everything, I’m not, so if someone sees something I’m doing incorrectly or plain stupid, by all means I want to here about it.

History of rifle goes as stated:
First dev/break in load of 25 rounds
Hornady virgin brass
33 grains Varget
109 ELDM
CCI BR4 primers
2 of 25 rounds did not fire, both rounds I recocked the rifle and tried again with no detonation.
At this point I made the mistake of blaming the primers, I had very similar striking marks as a fired round. I assume since I tried it twice the firing pin was able to make a deeper divot on the second attempt, there for making them visually similar to a fired round.
My second dev/break in load I did 50 rounds exactly the same as the first 25 (I was looking to test the primers to see how many wouldn’t fire at this point). 3rd round of 50 didn’t fire initially, I cocked the rifle again and it went. 4th fired. 5th did not after trying it twice. After inspecting the primer is when I noticed the light strike, so I took the rifle out of the chassis and proceeded to adjust the trigger hanger, my buddy and I determined that I pushed the trigger hanger to far back, essentially over adjusting it. So I loosened the set screw, overthinking it. 6th round didn’t go off after trying it twice. I stopped playing with it and went back home to figure out what was going on.
I have 3 ways to problem solve:
1. I can try using federal SR match primers, I’ve been told they’re a softer primer. Correct me if I’m wrong.
2. Order the next 2 heaviest firing pin springs from ARC, standard is roughly 16lbs, next heaviest is about 18lbs, and the last is roughly 22lbs. Test them using my currently loaded CCI BR4 primers
3. I can make a spacer to shim my current firing pin spring to potentially increase the weight. I’m leaning away from this idea because I won’t know what the weight would be therefore I wouldn’t be able to decide which spring I should order as I would not want to continually run with a homemade spacer.

For those going to ask rifle set up is:
6GT
26in preferred 1:7.5 barrel
MDT ESS chassis
AW mag with mag latch filed ~5-6 thou shorter
Razor gen 3 in Mbrace mount
Deadair sandman S

Of the groups I was able to shoot I came up with a .38 moa 5 shot.
View attachment 8198388
Click to expand...
Have you disassembled and cleaned the bolt and striker?
 
#5,261
fmorelli said:
Quasi CDG question. I have a bore guide from Mike Lucas for a Bore tech rod. 24" barrel on the CDG. I'm about to order a Bore Stix from them. Lengths are 40 44 50 56 60 inches. Anyone can suggest a good length on such a setup? I could guess based on sheer measures, but I suspect first hand experience here will trump my guess. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I guess that depends. For example, if using a folder chassis it can be far shorter than otherwise, right?

My view is that I want it long enough to poke out the end of the muzzle and still have the handle behind the butt pad. I have fixed (not folder). So for me, it was (all very approx) LOP plus length of action plus length of barrel.

Nothing unique about the CDG for this issue....I use a 50" BT rod with a couple of 6.5 CM rifles in OG JAE chassis. One with a Defiance action and one with Seekins Havak action. 50" is perfect for me.

Too long may be inconvenient. Too short and its worthless.

Cheers
 
#5,262
Baron23 said:
I guess that depends. For example, if using a folder chassis it can be far shorter than otherwise, right?

My view is that I want it long enough to poke out the end of the muzzle and still have the handle behind the butt pad. I have fixed (not folder). So for me, it was (all very approx) LOP plus length of action plus length of barrel.

Nothing unique about the CDG for this issue....I use a 50" BT rod with a couple of 6.5 CM rifles in OG JAE chassis. One with a Defiance action and one with Seekins Havak action. 50" is perfect for me.

Too long may be inconvenient. Too short and its worthless.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Fixed chassis. I'll go with 50" ... thanks!
 
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#5,265
fmorelli said:
Quasi CDG question. I have a bore guide from Mike Lucas for a Bore tech rod. 24" barrel on the CDG. I'm about to order a Bore Stix from them. Lengths are 40 44 50 56 60 inches. Anyone can suggest a good length on such a setup? I could guess based on sheer measures, but I suspect first hand experience here will trump my guess. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I have a 44” rod I use with a Lucas bore guide. It is long enough for my 28” barrel and CDG.
 
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#5,266
So, glad we’re all getting our parts now — I’ve got everything I need for my build! Dry fit everything, and just waiting on my new vise to show up (don’t ask what happened to the old one).

After timing and setting the rear set screw on the trigger hanger for a TriggerTech Primary, Single Stage, (yes it’s as buttery smooth as promised!), I noticed there’s still a side-to-side wobble/rocking of the trigger that has me slightly concerned, even when installed. Things are stiffer when the bolt is forward & cocked, and the seer is engaged, as you would expect — but… I don’t know how much of an issue to make of this.

I’m considering shimming it in the hangar to eliminate side-to-side motion, or possibly getting/making some fatter pins. The pins that came with my CDG hangar move very freely and will fall out without assistance if tilted to the side (again, even with trigger installed). I’m used to punching pins, so this hangar to action interface design is very very nice, but I would also expect a little bit of static friction when pins are placed/installed to keep things tight.

I like things to be solid, particularly the fire control mechanism (hence TT primary).

1. Is this an issue? (or have I botched something obvious)
2. Has anyone else noticed an issue like this?
3. How have you resolved it (or not)?
 
Last edited:
#5,267
M0AR said:
1. Is this an issue? (or have I botched something obvious)
2. Has anyone else noticed an issue like this?
3. How have you resolved it (or not)?
Click to expand...

Yes I've noticed this installing mine. Once the hanger is installed, the trigger pins are captured and act as guides for the adj hanger's path. Perhaps they float in the hanger to prevent binding in the hanger slot on the action? I've left it this way and it's been fine for 300 rounds.
 
#5,268
M0AR said:
So, glad we’re all getting our parts now — I’ve got everything I need for my build! Dry fit everything, and just waiting on my new vise to show up (don’t ask what happened to the old one).

After timing and setting the rear set screw on the trigger hanger for a TriggerTech Primary, Single Stage, (yes it’s as buttery smooth as promised!), I noticed there’s still a side-to-side wobble/rocking of the trigger that has me slightly concerned, even when installed. Things are stiffer when the bolt is forward & cocked, and the seer is engaged, as you would expect — but… I don’t know how much of an issue to make of this.

I’m considering shimming it in the hangar to eliminate side-to-side motion, or possibly getting/making some fatter pins. The pins that came with my CDG hangar move very freely and will fall out without assistance if tilted to the side (again, even with trigger installed). I’m used to punching pins, so this hangar to action interface design is very very nice, but I would also expect a little bit of static friction when pins are placed/installed to keep things tight.

I like things to be solid, particularly the fire control mechanism (hence TT primary).

1. Is this an issue? (or have I botched something obvious)
2. Has anyone else noticed an issue like this?
3. How have you resolved it (or not)?
Click to expand...
Mine has some side to side movement as well. I didn't try to "fix" it and it hasn't given me any issues in almost 500 rounds. Not an issue IMO.
 
#5,269
M0AR said:
So, glad we’re all getting our parts now — I’ve got everything I need for my build! Dry fit everything, and just waiting on my new vise to show up (don’t ask what happened to the old one).

After timing and setting the rear set screw on the trigger hanger for a TriggerTech Primary, Single Stage, (yes it’s as buttery smooth as promised!), I noticed there’s still a side-to-side wobble/rocking of the trigger that has me slightly concerned, even when installed. Things are stiffer when the bolt is forward & cocked, and the seer is engaged, as you would expect — but… I don’t know how much of an issue to make of this.

I’m considering shimming it in the hangar to eliminate side-to-side motion, or possibly getting/making some fatter pins. The pins that came with my CDG hangar move very freely and will fall out without assistance if tilted to the side (again, even with trigger installed). I’m used to punching pins, so this hangar to action interface design is very very nice, but I would also expect a little bit of static friction when pins are placed/installed to keep things tight.

I like things to be solid, particularly the fire control mechanism (hence TT primary).

1. Is this an issue? (or have I botched something obvious)
2. Has anyone else noticed an issue like this?
3. How have you resolved it (or not)?
Click to expand...
Just put together mine, and noticed it too. It only wobbles when not cocked. I took it all apart as I was worried the set screw came loose, but it is all good. The hanger is tight, it is the trigger moving in the hanger. (TT special)
 
#5,271
M0AR said:
So, glad we’re all getting our parts now — I’ve got everything I need for my build! Dry fit everything, and just waiting on my new vise to show up (don’t ask what happened to the old one).

After timing and setting the rear set screw on the trigger hanger for a TriggerTech Primary, Single Stage, (yes it’s as buttery smooth as promised!), I noticed there’s still a side-to-side wobble/rocking of the trigger that has me slightly concerned, even when installed. Things are stiffer when the bolt is forward & cocked, and the seer is engaged, as you would expect — but… I don’t know how much of an issue to make of this.

I’m considering shimming it in the hangar to eliminate side-to-side motion, or possibly getting/making some fatter pins. The pins that came with my CDG hangar move very freely and will fall out without assistance if tilted to the side (again, even with trigger installed). I’m used to punching pins, so this hangar to action interface design is very very nice, but I would also expect a little bit of static friction when pins are placed/installed to keep things tight.

I like things to be solid, particularly the fire control mechanism (hence TT primary).

1. Is this an issue? (or have I botched something obvious)
2. Has anyone else noticed an issue like this?
3. How have you resolved it (or not)?
Click to expand...
I put some tape on the side of mine to fill the void. It works.
 
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#5,272
My first centerfire rifle and the first rifle I have built, so thoughts welcome!

IMG_9034.jpg


- ARC CDG w/ 20 MOA rail, pivoting bolt head (sourced from PBB - they had the model I had on pre-order in stock, so I cancelled my ARC order)
- PBB 24" in 6.5 CM with .850 taperless contour and .160 FB / Alpha Munitions reamer. Also wrench flats, threaded muzzle
- KRG X-Ray
- Triggertech Special 2-stage
- Leica Amplus 2.5-15x50 with the Ballistic BDC reticle (on massive sale because that reticle has been discontinued)
- AW Mags

Notes:

1. Modifying the KRG X-Ray to accept the trigger hanger was trivial. If I had a shorter file (something like 4") it would have been even easier. Still, things are very tight in there, so I used an ultra-low profile screw to attach the front of the trigger guard, and even that I chose to grind down a bit.

2. AW Mags work perfectly with the stock KRG mag release. I literally did nothing except tweaked the fore end for appropriate mag tightness. They click right in and feed beautifully (although the bolt will not close on an empty mag — guessing that's a standard design feature of AW mags? I could change the follower maybe to one that will allow it?)

3. I went with the ARC M-10 rings because I like the look better vs M-Brace. The hinge pins fall out when they're not under load, FYI for other noobs like me.

Finally, I'll say that the cheek riser on the X-Ray does not go far enough back for my preferred LOP, so ... balls.

Total weight is 11lb 4oz, which is about a pound heavier than I was aiming for.

Would love to hear how you guys think I should further trick it out. I have to build myself a bench before I can zero in the scope and break in the barrel, but will update with some groups when I have them.
 
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#5,273
Sentinel89 said:
Here you go.

53Ys6EX.jpg


And beauty pics, while the barrel is on order..
OI8Sj6P.jpg

AdMIrM1.jpg
Click to expand...
Hi Sentinel!

Perfect! Thank you very much for the photos!!

Your rifle sure is sweet!!! Did you order the standard Remington 700 chassis or their R7 chassis (apparently the R7 adds more clearance for the charging bolt handle )? When you fold the stock does it clear the charging bolt handle without any interference? I'm dying to get mine on order!

Thanks for your time and help!

Edited to remove my stupid AR15 mistake. :rolleyes::LOL:
 
Last edited:
#5,274
pingunit said:
Hi Sentinel!

Perfect! Thank you very much for the photos!!

Your rifle sure is sweet!!! Did you order the standard Remington 700 chassis or their R7 chassis (apparently the R7 adds more clearance for the charging handle)? When you fold the stock does it clear the charging handle without any interference? I'm dying to get mine on order!

Thanks for your time and help!
Click to expand...
Charging handle??? ;-)
 
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#5,280
Im2bent said:
Does it close on a field gauge?
Click to expand...
Just put the gauges in my .223 trainer and it closes on the No-Go like it's not there. So yes, having that issue here as well ...

I broke down and ordered a Field Go gauge, so we'll see, but slightly concerned. Haven't tried the 6.5 barrel yet.

Not sure how tight CDG prefits are supposed to be, but I can see action threads when looking through the ejection port.

Anyone got some pics of theirs that gauge properly, for reference?

As for the trigger wobble, I'm now using some nylon washers to shim the pins between the trigger & hangar.
 
#5,285
githop said:
Torqued the action to 100 lb feet - extremely dismayed to see the action easily close on the no-go gauge (manson reamers). Has anyone else here had similar issues?
Click to expand...

Yes. PVA prefits here. Added a piece of scotch magic tape (810, supposedly just 2.2 mils thick) to my No-Go gauge and the bolt no longer closed.

Still waiting on field gauge to placate my OCD.
 

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#5,286
M0AR said:
Just put the gauges in my .223 trainer and it closes on the No-Go like it's not there. So yes, having that issue here as well ...

I broke down and ordered a Field Go gauge, so we'll see, but slightly concerned. Haven't tried the 6.5 barrel yet.

Not sure how tight CDG prefits are supposed to be, but I can see action threads when looking through the ejection port.

Anyone got some pics of theirs that gauge properly, for reference?

As for the trigger wobble, I'm now using some nylon washers to shim the pins between the trigger & hangar.
Click to expand...
What’s your barrel torqued to?
 
#5,291
M0AR said:
Just 95 - my beefier torque wrench is out on loan, so there is that. I'd like to bring it up closer to Ted's recommended 150. But I did some additional testing and I don't think I'm really worried anymore either. See above re: scotch tape.
Click to expand...
50 VS 150 isn't going to change headspace, it's only going to change thread position.
 
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#5,292
Is the general consensus that pivoting or non-pivoting bolt handles are preferred?

I played with a pivoting one and couldn’t really tell any appreciable difference in bolt lift or extraction, but they were not over-pressure loads.
 
#5,293
just browsing said:
Is the general consensus that pivoting or non-pivoting bolt handles are preferred?

I played with a pivoting one and couldn’t really tell any appreciable difference in bolt lift or extraction, but they were not over-pressure loads.
Click to expand...
Like many things, I see it as better to have and not need than to need and not have.
 
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#5,294
I'd always use the pivoting handle just for the large assist it provides in the event you ever have a stuck case, unless you're using a very sensitive, very lightly set trigger that will occasionally not catch the firing pin when running the bolt quickly. In that case I'd use the fixed handle.
 
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#5,298
fmorelli said:
Quasi CDG question. I have a bore guide from Mike Lucas for a Bore tech rod. 24" barrel on the CDG. I'm about to order a Bore Stix from them. Lengths are 40 44 50 56 60 inches. Anyone can suggest a good length on such a setup? I could guess based on sheer measures, but I suspect first hand experience here will trump my guess. Thanks!
Click to expand...

jetjock07 said:
Pretty sure 44” will work. I just ordered a rod and I have a 26” barrel.
Click to expand...

MilSpecOkie said:
I have a 44” rod I use with a Lucas bore guide. It is long enough for my 28” barrel and CDG
Click to expand...
Glad to hear the last… I have 44” in its mailing tube out in the sitting room. I have the Lucas guide too. BT checked with me before shipping, suggesting I’d probably want a 50”. I remeasured and stuck with my 44”. I wanted it to fit in my bag just in case I wanted it with me at the range. Good on them for looking out for me, but I stuck with my choice.
 
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