Has anyone with one of these screwed on a shouldered Nucleus or Archimedes barrel in .308 bolt family with AICS mags and had luck? I was put off by needing all new barrels, but I don't plan on using a AW mags on this. Trying to decide if I'm hunting down a used Nuke or if I can just order one of these.
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Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!
- Thread starter karagias
- Start date
I have been dry firing dummy 6mm Creed rounds into a Savage barrel nut shank "normal" breech barrel, I sit and run the same 5 dummies, from 75 gr to 108's (made for measuring purposes, no powder or primers) different weight bullets. I have probably made more than 100 cycles with no fail to feed or chamber smoothly, actually better than I have on my Mausingfield or Nucleus. I am feeding from an AW Mag though.
My pleasure! Thanks for watching! I freaking live this action!!Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Got the update from PBB this afternoon, my barrel went into production. Hopefully I'll have it and the action in hand in the next couple weeks.
I was surprised last week when my stock showed up early. Didn't expect it till mid-December. Maybe that was my reward for not bitching and complaining, and constantly asking when my stuff will show up. LOL Action got here a week or two before that (ordered on day 2 of sale to avoid the chaos) Already had the scope here waiting, so ordered a set of M-Brace rings to get this thing together.
This is my first rifle "build" (more like assembly). CDG, PVA 6.5CM Marksman profile, XLR Element 4 MG, TT Special. Installed trigger as per Ted's video. Went just as he described. Adjusted it to butter smooth. Torqued barrel to 125. Verified with go/no go gauges. Adjusted mag catch for the AW mags. Ran a mag full of dummy rounds through action, fed perfectly. Could my first ever build really have gone this easily?? We'll see...
Now I just need to find some range time, but so far, great experience. Love this action at this point. Hopefully it won't disappoint going forward.
This is my first rifle "build" (more like assembly). CDG, PVA 6.5CM Marksman profile, XLR Element 4 MG, TT Special. Installed trigger as per Ted's video. Went just as he described. Adjusted it to butter smooth. Torqued barrel to 125. Verified with go/no go gauges. Adjusted mag catch for the AW mags. Ran a mag full of dummy rounds through action, fed perfectly. Could my first ever build really have gone this easily?? We'll see...
Now I just need to find some range time, but so far, great experience. Love this action at this point. Hopefully it won't disappoint going forward.
If this is the future of rifles, I’m perfectly ok with that! I love the adult legos expanding! Let us know how it shoots!
Yes. Essentially, other than for true custom builds, this industry is becoming more of a commodity industry. Like most that become more mature over time.
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Just curious, can a CDG barrel be used on a Nucleus or Archimedes? I know people have used Nuke barrels on CDGs.
Not if it's coned, the coned tenon is longer and will likely hit the bolt or bottom out in the action before the shoulder on the barrel contacts the action.
Long project for me. I shot a PRS match with my TRG-22 in 2021 and knew I wanted to do more but with a purose built gun. Got the Bartlein blank in 2021. Then a Manson reamer, brass and dies in 2022. After spending a year trying to decide between an Archimedes or something like a Terminus Zeuss I saw the pre-sale for the Coup de Grace and ordered along with the Xylo this February. Action and chassis came this summer and have been sitting until I could get shop time. I knew I wanted a 6mm and decided on the 6 GT due to the talk about being designed to feed better than Dasher or others.
In the same timeframe I also finally added an Autotrickler V3 as it was becoming apparent that I wouldn't be able to get to the next level of Palma without more accurate charges.
I've built a few rifles. I've had pretty good success, but never like this. After finally getting everything together, with the only bullets I had on hand (ELD-M) I just threw some loads together starting at 33.0 grains of Varget and bore sighted the scope before heading to the range. First round on cardboard was 2.5 mils high and left, so I adjusted, and cleaning every round shot this group with the remaining 4 rounds.
Well that blew my mind. When I say I've had good success, I mean that eventually I'm able to find a load or a couple loads where with the right bullet, seating length and charge, I've gotten .75" or less groups at 100. A couple rifles below .5". Never have I built a rifle/load combo that did 1 hole groups consistently (nearly always had a flyer which I now attribute to the variance in charge weights) but that said, certainly never the first group out of a new barrel, new rifle, new to me caliber, with a random starting load particularly cleaning between each shot. So I got some more bullets and went back to the range with a variety of loads.
It's like I can't put a load together that DOESNT shoot <.5"
And feeding? It feeds better and smoother than any other bolt gun I own, custom or OEM. Better than my Borden/Eliseo tube gun in 308. Better than my TRG. I love everything about this gun and have started wondering what the hell I even need my other ones for.
So, thanks Hide, for all the info I got here that helped me put this together. Thanks ARC for designing what seems to be an amazing action. Thanks Bartlein for a fantastic barrel, my first Bartlein but certainly not my last.
In the same timeframe I also finally added an Autotrickler V3 as it was becoming apparent that I wouldn't be able to get to the next level of Palma without more accurate charges.
I've built a few rifles. I've had pretty good success, but never like this. After finally getting everything together, with the only bullets I had on hand (ELD-M) I just threw some loads together starting at 33.0 grains of Varget and bore sighted the scope before heading to the range. First round on cardboard was 2.5 mils high and left, so I adjusted, and cleaning every round shot this group with the remaining 4 rounds.
Well that blew my mind. When I say I've had good success, I mean that eventually I'm able to find a load or a couple loads where with the right bullet, seating length and charge, I've gotten .75" or less groups at 100. A couple rifles below .5". Never have I built a rifle/load combo that did 1 hole groups consistently (nearly always had a flyer which I now attribute to the variance in charge weights) but that said, certainly never the first group out of a new barrel, new rifle, new to me caliber, with a random starting load particularly cleaning between each shot. So I got some more bullets and went back to the range with a variety of loads.
It's like I can't put a load together that DOESNT shoot <.5"
And feeding? It feeds better and smoother than any other bolt gun I own, custom or OEM. Better than my Borden/Eliseo tube gun in 308. Better than my TRG. I love everything about this gun and have started wondering what the hell I even need my other ones for.
So, thanks Hide, for all the info I got here that helped me put this together. Thanks ARC for designing what seems to be an amazing action. Thanks Bartlein for a fantastic barrel, my first Bartlein but certainly not my last.
@kuraki, we might be a little rude sometimes but we are better than any sort of wife or mistress or hooker in helping you spend your last penny lol…apart from jokes, glad to read your story, very similar to what’s happening here. All my other rigs are now safe queens, amen.
I have to say I'm very impressed with the CDG action! I don't own very many bolt actions, but this thing is smooooooth!
I ran the CDG in the Major Land Match this past weekend. I used the 14 round extended AW for the entire match. It wasn't needed for this match as no stages were over 8 rifle. I just wanted to proof it for reliability. Everything ran flawless aside from the nut pressing the trigger.
@karagias - Any thoughts on adjusting the ejection pattern.
My only gripe is that the damn thing throws brass forward about 2 o'clock unless run really slow (308 Win.). I'd say about 35% of my new Norma brass was lost at this match due to throwing it over the front of platforms etc. This is really the only bugaboo I see with this action, but for comp shooting it's a pretty annoying characteristic.
I purchased a spare extractor from ARC to try modification on ejection pattern. My first attempt was to change the angle of the blade (now hits outer edge of rim first) and shortened it slightly. This made zero difference in the pattern. I'm thinking it may need the spring tension increased on the extractor to allow the case to flip more to the side before letting go. I will try that next.
Cleaning will start with a blow gun this evening.
@karagias - Any thoughts on adjusting the ejection pattern.
My only gripe is that the damn thing throws brass forward about 2 o'clock unless run really slow (308 Win.). I'd say about 35% of my new Norma brass was lost at this match due to throwing it over the front of platforms etc. This is really the only bugaboo I see with this action, but for comp shooting it's a pretty annoying characteristic.
I purchased a spare extractor from ARC to try modification on ejection pattern. My first attempt was to change the angle of the blade (now hits outer edge of rim first) and shortened it slightly. This made zero difference in the pattern. I'm thinking it may need the spring tension increased on the extractor to allow the case to flip more to the side before letting go. I will try that next.
Cleaning will start with a blow gun this evening.
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I modified it. Not a simple diy. It is outlined in this thread somewhere. I did it while waiting for the action so a ways back in this thread prior to first shippments. A lot of comp guys were asking about it this weekend.
If I can get a program worked out for my little bench-top CNC I may try to do a small run of them. It's not going to be a profitable venture for myself or even if someone like Area 419 did it. Just to much work, to many set ups, & to many parts involved.
Someone really just needs to make 12 round AW's & AW's for .535 bolt face etc.
I didn't use to see to many AI's in PRS matches prior to the AT-X. Now there are a lot of guys running AW's in comps.
I see a pretty big void in the mag vendor space for AW style mags & M-Rad mags.
I've done one 14 round AW mag, and it wasn't an easy DIY, unless you already have the equipment. I used an Altus +2 extension.
Step 1- Cut the entire bottom of the mag off, very carefully.
Step 2- Cut new lips for the bottom of the mag (so as to replicate std. AI mags)
For this I used a waterjet and .045 304 stainless sheet
Step 4- Use your TIG welder to add new mag lips to the outside of the AW mag. Let cool before touching w/o gloves
Step 5- reassemble as you would a std. AI mag
Nothing to it. It only took me 5 attempts and 250K in equipment to make one
Step 1- Cut the entire bottom of the mag off, very carefully.
Step 2- Cut new lips for the bottom of the mag (so as to replicate std. AI mags)
For this I used a waterjet and .045 304 stainless sheet
Step 4- Use your TIG welder to add new mag lips to the outside of the AW mag. Let cool before touching w/o gloves
Step 5- reassemble as you would a std. AI mag
Nothing to it. It only took me 5 attempts and 250K in equipment to make one
Yes it does. And for more traditional PRS where you cant cross the line till the end of the match, also sucks. Trying to sort through hundreds of cases.
I need one of them 3D printed brass marking tools.
With no tuner either.Long project for me. I shot a PRS match with my TRG-22 in 2021 and knew I wanted to do more but with a purose built gun. Got the Bartlein blank in 2021. Then a Manson reamer, brass and dies in 2022. After spending a year trying to decide between an Archimedes or something like a Terminus Zeuss I saw the pre-sale for the Coup de Grace and ordered along with the Xylo this February. Action and chassis came this summer and have been sitting until I could get shop time. I knew I wanted a 6mm and decided on the 6 GT due to the talk about being designed to feed better than Dasher or others.
View attachment 8245748View attachment 8245749View attachment 8245750View attachment 8245751
In the same timeframe I also finally added an Autotrickler V3 as it was becoming apparent that I wouldn't be able to get to the next level of Palma without more accurate charges.
I've built a few rifles. I've had pretty good success, but never like this. After finally getting everything together, with the only bullets I had on hand (ELD-M) I just threw some loads together starting at 33.0 grains of Varget and bore sighted the scope before heading to the range. First round on cardboard was 2.5 mils high and left, so I adjusted, and cleaning every round shot this group with the remaining 4 rounds.
View attachment 8245753
Well that blew my mind. When I say I've had good success, I mean that eventually I'm able to find a load or a couple loads where with the right bullet, seating length and charge, I've gotten .75" or less groups at 100. A couple rifles below .5". Never have I built a rifle/load combo that did 1 hole groups consistently (nearly always had a flyer which I now attribute to the variance in charge weights) but that said, certainly never the first group out of a new barrel, new rifle, new to me caliber, with a random starting load particularly cleaning between each shot. So I got some more bullets and went back to the range with a variety of loads.
View attachment 8245758View attachment 8245759View attachment 8245760View attachment 8245762View attachment 8245763View attachment 8245764View attachment 8245765
It's like I can't put a load together that DOESNT shoot <.5"
And feeding? It feeds better and smoother than any other bolt gun I own, custom or OEM. Better than my Borden/Eliseo tube gun in 308. Better than my TRG. I love everything about this gun and have started wondering what the hell I even need my other ones for.
View attachment 8245766View attachment 8245767
So, thanks Hide, for all the info I got here that helped me put this together. Thanks ARC for designing what seems to be an amazing action. Thanks Bartlein for a fantastic barrel, my first Bartlein but certainly not my last.
Long project for me. I shot a PRS match with my TRG-22 in 2021 and knew I wanted to do more but with a purose built gun. Got the Bartlein blank in 2021. Then a Manson reamer, brass and dies in 2022. After spending a year trying to decide between an Archimedes or something like a Terminus Zeuss I saw the pre-sale for the Coup de Grace and ordered along with the Xylo this February. Action and chassis came this summer and have been sitting until I could get shop time. I knew I wanted a 6mm and decided on the 6 GT due to the talk about being designed to feed better than Dasher or others.
View attachment 8245748View attachment 8245749View attachment 8245750View attachment 8245751
In the same timeframe I also finally added an Autotrickler V3 as it was becoming apparent that I wouldn't be able to get to the next level of Palma without more accurate charges.
I've built a few rifles. I've had pretty good success, but never like this. After finally getting everything together, with the only bullets I had on hand (ELD-M) I just threw some loads together starting at 33.0 grains of Varget and bore sighted the scope before heading to the range. First round on cardboard was 2.5 mils high and left, so I adjusted, and cleaning every round shot this group with the remaining 4 rounds.
View attachment 8245753
Well that blew my mind. When I say I've had good success, I mean that eventually I'm able to find a load or a couple loads where with the right bullet, seating length and charge, I've gotten .75" or less groups at 100. A couple rifles below .5". Never have I built a rifle/load combo that did 1 hole groups consistently (nearly always had a flyer which I now attribute to the variance in charge weights) but that said, certainly never the first group out of a new barrel, new rifle, new to me caliber, with a random starting load particularly cleaning between each shot. So I got some more bullets and went back to the range with a variety of loads.
View attachment 8245758View attachment 8245759View attachment 8245760View attachment 8245762View attachment 8245763View attachment 8245764View attachment 8245765
It's like I can't put a load together that DOESNT shoot <.5"
And feeding? It feeds better and smoother than any other bolt gun I own, custom or OEM. Better than my Borden/Eliseo tube gun in 308. Better than my TRG. I love everything about this gun and have started wondering what the hell I even need my other ones for.
View attachment 8245766View attachment 8245767
So, thanks Hide, for all the info I got here that helped me put this together. Thanks ARC for designing what seems to be an amazing action. Thanks Bartlein for a fantastic barrel, my first Bartlein but certainly not my last.
Are you using any kind of mag kit with the AW mag or just a stock AW mag?
You know, I was really considering designing one, but I really wanted to try the 419 brake and about the only thing I don't have at my disposal is a 5 axis machine, so rather than making a tuner/brake combo I just tabled it and figured I could add one later. ETA: 5 axis to make a similar brake not tuner, just to clarify.
Just a stock AW mag. If there was more recoil I'd worry about rounds sliding forward, but from the ~100 rounds I've fired so far, they haven't moved enough to affect feeding.
Can someone kindly measure their long action bolt's outer diameter for me? If it matters bolt face is 0.535".
Bolt body should be 20.8mm / 0.819" diameter, receiver bore should be 21mm / 0.827".
As far as I know short action and long action are the same diameter.
Anybody hear info if the Nuke is getting retired as well? Somebody over on LRH said they tried to order a long action Nuke and got told they stopped production of them when they started on the CDG.
I had seen they were all out of stock no back order but just assumed they were focusing all their production on the CDG.
I had seen they were all out of stock no back order but just assumed they were focusing all their production on the CDG.
Not sure but at the $899 price there’s no reason to buy a nuke over the cdg
Exactly!
Doesn't take away from anybody who likes their Nuke, but why pay more for less by buying a Nuke.
Yup and I love my nukes! And my multiple Archimedes but moving forward it’s cdg
Another satisfied Nuke owner here and I agree with you guys. The CDG is everything the Nuke is and more.
If you have a Nucleus and spare parts / barrels, and want another action, the Nucleus makes sense.
It is captured by the coned breach.
I did loose a few primer pockets looking for pressure in uncharted load territory. Primers didn't pierce, just fell out when case ejected. No bulged brass, no extra gas, & just a little carbon on bolt face.
I think It'd take a major case head failure to put the extractor in jeopardy.
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Just watched the disassembly video and the very bottom of the spring is captured by the bolt body, but a good bit of the opening is still exposed. Would be interesting to see how it holds up to a pierced primer.
I have an early CDG and things may have changed on later ones. One thing I like about my Nukes and Archimedes is I can run the bolt faster. The CDG binds/slows with any upward or downward pressure on the bolt. It’s much more finicky comparatively. Everything else is equal or better on the CDG IMO.
Not sure if you own one of these yet. It makes a lot more sense when you look at it disassembled.
The spring channel i.e. exposed area is closed. See picture below with spring removed. No opening to firing pin bore. Next notice the extractor has a lug on the bottom. That lug is exposed to the firing pin bore, but it blocks/shields the spring/detent ball. The detent ball is a very precise fit to the spring bore & it's small. Looks to me like most pressure from a popped primer that makes it past the extractor lug would simply disperse around the periphery of the extractor (path of least resistance). If any does go down through the spring it has no leverage to dislodge it, compress it maybe, but I don't see how it would come out.
The extractor itself is prevented from pivoting open by the cone breach. The side of the extractor is within the lug and constraint from coming out the side by the action. This whole system is very thoroughly thought through & very cleverly designed. This is why I Love ARC's actions. It's engineering as an art form. Clean yet simple.
Here is what Ted had to say.
No, I don't currently own one of these yet and have been going off videos and pictures. Your picture actually gives me a closer look than I've had before. My concerns stem from my Defiance Deviant with a sako style extractor with a very similar design except it uses a spring and plunger that is enclosed. The extractor and cut has A LOT of similarities and when I experienced pierced primers both the plunger and spring were damaged enough to cause issues. That does not mean to me that the CDG would definitely have the same or similar issues, but I could see where it might. I'm guessing someone out there will eventually pop a few and find out.
Maybe someone will, but I've never pierced a primer in any of ARC's actions (all of them).
The loads I lost primers in had only the slightest hint of cratering. Pocket was about .004-.006 loose.
Honestly, not knocking Defiance, but I see no similarity at all to ARC's extractor.
I think the key difference with the sako is that plunger. They would mushroom from being hammered by the extractor, and stick in its bore. I dont believe the ball bearing on the cdg will act the same way.
My main concern with the CDG is whether or not how the spring is "retained" will cause an issue because it's not enclosed. It may not but this is the only action I can think of that has an exposed extractor spring.
JFC,
There's a whole lotta room between a little stiff bolt lift and popping primers.
Both are too much.
You'd think, but never got a stiff bolt lift even with popped primers. This is the pivoting handle so no extraction cam or pivot was needed. Extracted like a FGMM.
I've felt a stiff bolt in the Tika when load gets warm, but not with any of My ARC actions.
So word of caution to CDG owners. Especially if this is your first custom action. ARC actions hide pressure compared to factory actions & even many other customs. They have thin blade ejectors & tight fitting small diameter firing pins. I have taken my 6.5 Creedmoor loads that exhibited zero pressure signs in my Nuke. Put them in a another custom action & hit waterline at distance using my dope (same speed), but brass came out with an obvious ejector stamp. Add a PVA barrel, they also don't pressure up easily from my experience.
Ran 4 rounds & checked first, nothing looked like excessive pressure. 2 of the next 3 primers fell out. Had the magneto on and knew it had to be over max based on speed. I was admittedly pushing it hard looking for max safe speed possible with solids. The best method I've found with all ARC actions is to use non mil/mag primers for load development. They flatten a little easier & that has been my best indicator. In this case though I used pre-primed Norma brass. My guess in hindsight, they're likely mil spec primers.
Pic of the popped primer. That's the most cratering I've seen with the CDG & it still isn't much.
Brass from popped primer load below. I'd say it burned it all efficiently & probably won't be causing a carbon ring any time soon.
SD/ES also climbed starting .7gr below this. That IMO can be sign your headed past safe pressure limits.
Primers came out nice and tight with .5gr below this. Going to back off a full grain.
There isn't much info in the wild for RL15.5 & Lever loads. Both work very well.
Guess which brass below matches the above powders.
Just for comparison a pic of what I called max load on a pressure ladder using FGM 210's. They get flat but as you can see there is really no cratering with the CDG.
Quite the contrast to the AI's I've seen piercing every other primer with factory SRP 6.5 Creed loads.
When the bolt is closed, the spring is not exposed. In fact the only way that spring comes out with the bolt closed would be for the action to explode.
The lower part of exposed spring is covered by the bolt body once assembled. The remaining exposed portion is covered by the lug abutment in the action when closed. It literaly cant come out unless the action blows apart.
The Sako example picture you posted is not in the lug, it is between lugs. That may or may not be the case with the deviant, but it is a huge difference.
When it comes to engineering and machined parts I'm not just being a fan boy. This is a fully developed system. Ted has obviously spun this thing around looking at it from every perspective.
Here is another piece of the extractor design Ted thought of. Haven't seen this mention yet. Notice the hump left in the action opposed to the extractor with the bolt closed.
The cone breach restrains the front. Action restrains the side. It's not coming out unless everything is blown to pieces.
The 12:00 Higbee thread start is tits also.
Those primers are flat as shit. You're way over 65ksi.
Also, if you're activating the pivot, that's an over pressure sign. Or in the case of something like a 7 SAUM, maybe an expanded .200 line.
Either way, you're well into 70-80,000 psi. Probably more.
I'm glad for a couple of things. One, to see people developing new powder data. Two, that Ted designed an action that handles over pressure so well.
What I'd hate to see is you getting hurt because there's every indication you're going deep into the area of dangerous loads.
