DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

[Xdm40guy]

Hi I am a new member and I have a question for all of the experienced guys. I am looking to purchase a precision rifle. May want to get into competition up to 1000 yds. Just from an operation stand point I am choosing the .308 so that I can shoot more cost effective as I learn the craft. I am aware that high end glass will be required but that would be true on any rifle, right. I am not concerned with pretty stocks etc. In fact, I like the tactical rugged hardware. One thing attractive on the DTA is the conversion kits.


Candidates are in no order:

DTA Scout
Savage 10BA
AIAW
Sako TRG22

Thanks..

 

[Mike]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Throw the Savage out and ask the same question.

Then ask how many people actually switch their DTAs around.

Sako TRG gets my vote.

 

[neeley205]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

TRG for the price to performance ratio without spending hundreds on after market mods.

(yes, I know about the price of mags, bipods etc, im talking about switching stocks, triggers, breaks, etc + smith fees and waits)

 

[matt33]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

I really like my new Sako TRG-22. Here's my review and initial thoughts compared to the AI AE:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2500091#Post2500091

 

[beenjammin]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

I like the Sako as well, but most of the rifles listed are going to be quite a sizable investment for someone that "may want" to get into competitive shooting.

There are certainly much less expensive alternatives to start out on in case you dont like it... But then again, I have never met anyone that went to their first match and said they did not have a blast.

Either way, Mike is right on the Sako, if you dont like it, the TRG holds its value well and you could easily resell it. I would suggest the same in a scope like NF. NF sell here usually within minutes of listing... I should know I have purchased quite a few myself lately.

 

[banks74]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

I would also drop the Savage out of that list. If trying to go cost effective, a Rem 700 5R and some great glass would be a nice package for a decent price.

 

[desertHK]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

If you say the ruggedness of the rifle, then I would say AIAW.

 

[fox5]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Scope first, trainer .308 then you should be able to decide what you need.

 

[JRose]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

I would drop the DTA and AW, I think it would be a mistake to dismiss the Savage... Their cost definitely puts them into the "diminishing returns" category for me.

You'd be surprised what results a Savage will yield. It might not get you the internet cred, but most are reliable, accurate as hell, have a great trigger, and you can swap barrels yourself w/o having to send it away.

My 10FP has around 4000-5000 rounds on it, and has never failed to go bang when I shoot it, and is accurate as hell.

 

[Jong]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Throw the Savage out and ask the same question.

Then ask how many people actually switch their DTAs around.

Sako TRG gets my vote. </div></div>

I spend most of my time in the middle east but when I am home I switch out my barrels a bunch. I have a 338 and a 243. Unless you want to get into long range shooting with a 338 then I don't think getting a DTA is worth it. I got this rifle specifically so I could shoot long distances but also be able to practice with it and not break the bank when shooting at shorter distances.

Don't fret your decision so much. Worse thing that happens is that you get into shooting and figure you don't like the rifle. Good thing about that is rifles don't really lose their value all to much so you will only take a small hit by selling it and getting another one.

 

[DT1]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

To the original poster, that's certainly an interesting list you've put together for your choices...

Your other priorities are spot on, you'll want the best glass you can afford (that's another discussion) and plenty of ammo. 308W is a good choice to make your shooting budget go further while you learn.

Since this is going to be your first entry into the competitive shooting arena, why don't you pick up a good quality, used .308 on a Remington action and spend the rest of your money on glass, ammo and possibly shooting lessons somewhere like Rifles Only?

You'll probably be safe buying a good used .308 (GAP, APA etc) due to the relatively long barrel life. Get one that uses the detachable magazines. There are usually some good ones for sale on this board in the FS forum.

After you've shot and competed for awhile you'll learn what you like and don't like and can make more informed decisions on a higher end rig and other gear. You can definitely spend a lot of money in a hurry on stuff you don't need if you're not careful.

Regarding the AIAW choice, I wouldn't bother spending that much money on a .308 (I've got one, I know). I'd get the AE MKII that accepts the 10rnd AICS mags and spend the difference on glass and other competitive accessories.

Good luck with your choice and your shooting!

 

[notquiteright]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

I suggest the OP drop the LCCDI rifles like the DTA and AI and get serious for just a minute.

IF you truely want a rifle to compete with AND the reason for selecting the 308 is cost of rounds then a custom Remington or tweeked Savage stays in the purported operational concept.

I have shot for and against all you list plus TACs, Surgeons, Stolle, Nieskas- you name it. It really comes down to the shooter. The days I am righter and tighter I place above them. Days I suck hind tit I dont.

Just starting out, money spent on the scope is better spent than buying a high dollar rifle. Some money must be spent, but the beginner should wait til they have a few thousand rounds downrange before besiding which high dollar rifle suits them.

I'd go Savage if I was starting over again.

 

[Chiller]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xdm40guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi I am a new member and I have a question for all of the experienced guys. I am looking to purchase a precision rifle. May want to get into competition up to 1000 yds. Just from an operation stand point I am choosing the .308 so that I can shoot more cost effective as I learn the craft. I am aware that high end glass will be required but that would be true on any rifle, right. I am not concerned with pretty stocks etc. In fact, I like the tactical rugged hardware. One thing attractive on the DTA is the conversion kits.


Candidates are in no order:

DTA Scout
Savage 10BA
AIAW
Sako TRG22

Thanks.. </div></div>

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Apples and pineapples much..??..??

 

[DeSnifter]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

One thought with the DTA. You can train with the .308 and when you want to go out to 1000 or even beyond that you can used the .338. I love mine. Lightweight and compact.

 

[z71rat]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

If you want to shoot out to 1000 and switch back and forth with different calibers... SAVAGE!! I personally wouldn't go the BA route, but with the 10FCP or even a target receiver.

F-Class, no problem. Hunting, no problem. Shooting for just the fun of shooting, no problem. And with that option, you are definately not going to break the bank and can put the glass on it of your choice.

My money is on Savage all the way.

DK

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

I'd say the opposite of most posts here (except for JRose).
Throw the others out and go with the Savage for starting out.
Put a decent scope on it and shoot the hell out of it.
Next time around you will have a good idea which rifle is which and you won't need to ask which one on this forum.

Actually I like JRose's post better than mine.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

If your just getting started, I too would recommend the Savage. Its a great rifle that you can learn the basics without a cosigner, and even when you become a much better shooter the Savage will still serve you well.
I love chillers homemade video, it describes perfectly the situation here. The other three rifles you listed here are in another ballpark than the Savage, requiring a MAJOR commitment. And they are not entry level rifles either, that certainly doesn't rule them out as it is your money and choice.
I have the Savage, have shot the AI and the DTA, both are amazing rifles, and I'm sure the TRG is as well. So the good news is that you cant really go wrong here, just make your choice, good luck

 

[Tunin]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

One of the slightly used Remington based (only because that's what I have experience with) _with_detachable_mags_, in .308 that you get from someone here will get you a long way. Spend your money on a really good NF scope, like the NSX F1. When you change rifles down the road you'll keep using the good glass. Like one of the follow up posts noted you'll learn a lot more about what you might like and dislike as you begin going to some competitions. No matter the platform, if you just show up and compete you'll have a blast. You'll find that people in this sport are very helpful to newcomers. Have fun!

 

[VYD]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xdm40guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi I am a new member and I have a question for all of the experienced guys. I am looking to purchase a precision rifle. May want to get into competition up to 1000 yds. Just from an operation stand point I am choosing the .308 so that I can shoot more cost effective as I learn the craft. I am aware that high end glass will be required but that would be true on any rifle, right. I am not concerned with pretty stocks etc. In fact, I like the tactical rugged hardware. One thing attractive on the DTA is the conversion kits.</div></div>

S A V A G E

It was a Savage Team taking a 1000 yards National Title with a Savage rifle, remember? No need to spend many thousands of bucks on AI...unless you grow cash on trees. Get a Savage target gun and a great Nightforce glass.

 

[Mike]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

It's funny, all I can think about when I read people (including JRose) recommending Savage is the ones that always seem to break during TACTICAL competitions. I guess if you're going to shoot belly bench rest on a clean range it's a great option. The AW and TRG are meant to fight and replicate fighting conditions. The Savage is not.

Remember, rarely is the adage wrong "you get what you pay for".

 

[VYD]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

With all due respect, Mike, the OP said he wants to learn the craft of LR shooting with a competition in mind. What does that have to do with fights and fighting conditions? Let him LEARN the basics and excel at 1000 yards first before he complicates his life with tactical stuff...

 

[Mike]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

At the fork in the road where he decides what primary discipline he will pursue, it would be easier to learn on a tactical rifle if tactical competition is his goal. And with this being a site dedicated to that type of shooting, it's fair to state that tactical is his direction. Otherwise there are other sites which may serve him better.

 

[AKAce]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's funny, all I can think about when I read people (including JRose) recommending Savage is the ones that always seem to break during TACTICAL competitions. I guess if you're going to shoot belly bench rest on a clean range it's a great option. The AW and TRG are meant to fight and replicate fighting conditions. The Savage is not.

Remember, rarely is the adage wrong "you get what you pay for". </div></div>

What Breaks ? On whose rifle ? I have not heard about this. I shoot plenty of competitions from -7 degrees F - 98 in some Nasty Shit and have not had any Fails with Savages.

 

[Mike]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Perhaps you can ask Lowlight about the two that broke at the Bash.

 

[AKAce]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Perhaps you can ask Lowlight about the two that broke at the Bash. </div></div>

I reckon I could, but you brought it up so I was asking you. Did anything else fail at the bash ?

 

[Mike]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

A USO. No AIs or TRGs

 

[JRose]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

My Savage has never failed me yet. I've never taken it to war, but I'm not a warrior. I would have no reservations taking it to any comps now that I have a suitable DBM in there now. It's never given me any reason to suspect it would fail me. Hell, the tolerances are so damn loose on the bolt, I dare say it would be more reliable than my tighter match rifles!

One caveat, the safety has never worked on it.... Hahahah

I've just never care to fix it... My safety is a open bolt.

The only reason I don't compete more with mine, is due to the fact it's a .308, and when you go to the drag strip, you take your fastest car... Any .308 match though, it's going.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

To the OP: Here is a link to an article by Zak Smith that you might find interesting. If you've already read it, my apoligies: Zak Smith New Equipment Article

Given your list, it doesn't appear money is an object. It only took me about 5 rifle purchases to settle on an AIAW for a primary/competition gun. If you started there and got in for the right price, I'd be hard pressed to say you had made a mistake. But to each his own.

Good luck.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Works fine until a match mandates rifles have a functioning safety.

Everything breaks, but somethings break less than others.

Tot he OP, I'd recommend a good solid Remington 700 with a good stock and DBM. Spend your money on good glass and ammo, and maybe training.

5000 rounds downrange you will know what you really want in a rifle.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

I'm surprised no one has recommended a Remington 700 5R rifle for under $1K. These are very popular with the Sacramento, CA Precision Rifle Club and frequently do well in competition. At a higher price point (about $3K), I would recommend an AIAE MKII if I knew the person was going to continue with shooting as an avocation.

 

[Mike]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Now that I'm in front of a computer and can type faster.....

This is not a bash Savage issue. This is a "Savage does not compare in quality to an AW or TRG" issue. There are plenty of great shooting Savages out there. However, you will find that they have more than their fair share of issues. If they didn't, everyone would be running one.

Sure, there are great ones out there. I know that JRose's Savage shoots extremely well. But by his own admission his safety doesn't work (I am in agreement about an open bolt is "safe") and it's loose as hell. If loose actions are the key to accuracy, or keeping clean, why aren't the AW's loose?

I had an M70 Stealth II that was a .25 moa rifle all the time. Does that mean it's better than an AW or TRG? Of course not. It's not about accuracy, it's about reliability in all conditions and the ability to take a huge amount of abuse.

Finally, if we were shipping you off to fight right now, is a Savage in any caliber the rifle you're going to take? That's the criterion I use. Would I take this Savage rifle if my life depended on it? If that's too "extreme" or "unrealistic" then so be it, I stand by it.

 

[Searcher]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

The AW is a prime piece of meat. You buy once, cry once and use it for the rest of your life. There is no denying that AIAW's are top shelf tools.

How about a Robar SR90? 30% less than the AW with all the benefits of a proven hand built rifle built around a Rem 700 action. You wouldnt be sorry with this one either.

Next, take a second mortgage and go glass shopping.

 

[jbell]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

In the intrest of "you get what you pay for" I have to say the TRG is the top of the heep. Im not saing its better than the AI, I dont think anyone would say that. But I will say it is as good (in some ways better, and in some ways not as good) after all the chips are down. Then you factor in the cost and the TRG becomes a much better value and you havent lost any quality. The others Remington, Savage, FN, ect. factory or custom you are giving up some reliability. I may be completely off in my opnion, but then agan how many operational problems have been experianced with the TRG? I know of the occasional trigger lock up that seems to always be B/C someone adjusted it too light or installed it incorrectly, but aside from that what other short comings are there in the TRG?

I am not dumping on any of the other systems Im just tring to say what a good value the TRG is. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

There are a lot of nice rifles out on the market today. I have a Sako TRG and I like shooting it a lot more than all my other rifles. I really don't have any complaints about it, for me the rifle and accessories was a better deal than anything else out there so that was a major factor for me. If I was to do it all over I would of never bought a custom and would of just bought the TRG first. I considered the AI AW but for me the cost being twice the cost of a TRG and 30% more weight didn't work for me.

I do have one complaint about the TRG that is magazines, I have had 3 on order from Sako about 4 months ago still nothing.

 

[ar-don71]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the intrest of "you get what you pay for" I have to say the TRG is the top of the heep. Im not saing its better than the AI, I dont think anyone would say that. But I will say it is as good (in some ways better, and in some ways not as good) after all the chips are down. Then you factor in the cost and the TRG becomes a much better value and you havent lost any quality. The others Remington, Savage, FN, ect. factory or custom you are giving up some reliability. I may be completely off in my opnion, but then agan how many operational problems have been experianced with the TRG? I know of the occasional trigger lock up that seems to always be B/C someone adjusted it too light or installed it incorrectly, but aside from that what other short comings are there in the TRG?


I am not dumping on any of the other systems Im just tring to say what a good value the TRG is. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. </div></div>

your not wrong.
I have owned two Remingtons and one Savage 308s and they are not even in the same league as a TRG.

its like comparing a Ford Ranger to a F250 Superduty.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

I think a lot depends on your budget and if you want to start with something cheaper and then customize or upgrade as you get better, or if you have the budget for it and just want to buy the best from the get go and never have to worry about it again.

If you can afford it, get the AI AW with most of the options (including the folding stock), good barrel threaded for a break etc, and top it off with some good glass like a S&B 5-25x56 and you'll get years of use out of it and can easily stick on a new barrel for .243 etc if you want to swap back and forth.

You can save a couple thousand by going with an AI AE Mark II rifle and it will still do most everything the AW will do for a lot less cost.

The 2 AI rifle options are some of the best in my opinion, but do keep in mind that they are 15-18 pounds when fully setup, but the unbeaten ruggedness is well worth it. In addition since all the parts are made to exact standards, you can swap bolts and barrels and things like that without needing custom smith work.

The TRG is another good rifle system that is a bit more traditional in the configuration and is cheaper than the AI options (unless you want the folding stock, then it's the same price as an AW)

The savage would be a nice choice if you had a limited budget, and wanted to spend most on good glass first, then get lots of trigger time in and then upgrade as soon as you had the budget.

 

[notquiteright]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

But to be fair 99% here and 75% at tacticool comps are going nowhere near 'their life depending on it'.

To be VERY fair many real deals could care less if the safety works, line doggies maybe, but many is the time a guy forgets the safety is on and uses 35 pounds of trigger pull before he checks! Best safety on a boltgun is under that cool boonie hat, or the A-rab scarf so beloved by many who never set foot in a Muslim country with deadly intent.

For most the 'fork in the road' is between 300 yard groups and maybe a local match.

If its a worry over the fork toward tacticool comps I'd recommend something in a nice Remington, something basic like the wife's little black dress.

No need for a more than that and most who buy a Remington with dreams of the tacticool road at most attend a class or two and call it fuzzy.

 

[Mike]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a lot of nice rifles out on the market today. I have a Sako TRG and I like shooting it a lot more than all my other rifles. I really don't have any complaints about it, for me the rifle and accessories was a better deal than anything else out there so that was a major factor for me. If I was to do it all over I would of never bought a custom and would of just bought the TRG first. I considered the AI AW but for me the cost being twice the cost of a TRG and 30% more weight didn't work for me.

I do have one complaint about the TRG that is magazines, I have had 3 on order from Sako about 4 months ago still nothing.</div></div>

Forget the Sako mags. Contact KRG via Massoud here on the Hide and get his AICS mag conversion kit for the TRG and never look back.

 

[vman]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Mmmm I would even look at a .223.

If you can handload for a .223, and learn on that (stretch it out to 600 yards) you could get in twice as much shooting as you could with a .308. Think about it, twice as much!

The principles can then be applied to any other rifle.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

DTA has these advantages:

1. very good ergonomics - better than those of a conventional long rifle (those who dislike bullpup probably will disagree with me);
2. shorter and more manageable on the move - without sacrificing barrel length;
3. accurate out-of-box (factory guarantees 1/2 MOA or better);
4. ability to quickly and easily change calibers.

I love this platform. But it's very pricey - figure on $3K+ for the chassis plus $1500 to $1700 per caliber conversion kit (barrel, bolt, a pair of magazines).

Rem 700 is a great inexpensive reliable platform (especially after HOGSTOOTH touched up its trigger). US Army and USMC didn't choose it for nothing. Feels much better with AICS chassis. I like it - but find DTA much more convenient to shoot with, and more accurate in my hands.

 

[Xdm40guy]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Guys, thanks so much for all of your input. A special thanks to chiller for the video illustration. That put a lot into perspective, and pretty funny. I really like the dta. Then I guess next would be the ai. I realize I can upgrade at anytime but I really want to buy one time. I like to hang on to my stuff. So now maybe the question should be DTA or AI?

What a great site. Lots of knowledge.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

DTA or AI? That's easy. AI.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

If possible get behind each as they are all excellent platforms, yet diggerent ergonomics.

AI's and amazing platform, but I'm not a fan of the ergonomics, TRG would get my vote of the two.
I haven't played with the DTA.

 

[turbo54]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

It is unlikely you'll choose you're forever rifle on the first try. A 700 or savage is almost worth throwing away when you're done with it. So you buy one and tune it up a little for a total of $900. When you upgrade, you easily sell it for $500. You used up $400 of its goodness. The DTA or AI will lose more than $400 in value, I think.

I dunno. I bought a Savage for my first, and its been great. I've got 2500ish rounds through it and shot a 10 shot group of .75" at 200 yards on wednesday. Hard to argue with it. You could spend a lot more money on something that doesn't even shoot that well. They kinda tend to come across like a Chrysler....but while Chryslers barely work at all, savages work great. They do have a rinky-dink feel to them though.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Both DTA and AI are competing for USSOCOM PSR contract (with Sako, Remington, Barrett, etc).

I like DTA design better than AI. On the other hand AI has a longer track record.

As knowledgeable people say here - you can't go wrong with either gun.

 

[Ewen]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Hi guys.
I have been shooting AI's for years and love them both for what they are and I am biased being a Brit. But I have been so impressed with the DTA that I have sold my AI's and replaced them with DTA's.

I should also state to be open that I like them so much I have become the European distributor.

As for their reliabilty, you are correct they are still new, however I have taken mine on several competitions now and through several dozen hard stalks with no issues. On one stalk the entire rifle was submerged in wet sand whilst crawling, I thought I was FUBAR'd but later on the stalk i came across a small stream, The entire rifle got dunked and cleaned out in the rifle and then I carried on with the rifle.

In the end I placed 4th and would have been higher if my pistol skills had been up to scratch.

I love the ergonomics of the DTA and find it really difficult to take anything else out of the safe these days as it just feels like a dinosaur!!!

regards

Ewen

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

I have to admit, even though my Savage is startlingly accurate, a primer leak will send it home sick.

This shouldn't be an issue with factory ammo. I was using de-crimped LC brass.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ewen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But I have been so impressed with the DTA that I have sold my AI's and replaced them with DTA's.</div></div>
Likewise.

 

[bm11]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

Had a TRG folder, currently own an AW with 2900 rounds through it and an AX with 900 through it. I will admit, I am a diehard AI fan, but I would like to try a DTA at some point!

About a year ago, I was in the same position. It never really is a "buy once, cry once" situation, but I have never regretted any of my quality rifle purchases, so with that said, you should be happy with any of your choices.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: DTA vs. Savage vs. AI vs. Sako

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's funny, all I can think about when I read people (including JRose) recommending Savage is the ones that always seem to break during TACTICAL competitions. I guess if you're going to shoot belly bench rest on a clean range it's a great option. The AW and TRG are meant to fight and replicate fighting conditions. The Savage is not.

Remember, rarely is the adage wrong "you get what you pay for". </div></div>

I saw quite the opposite at the matches i've been at, notably Mammoth. I went there with 2 people that I know fairly well, one with a Badger 2008, other with a factory 700, and I with my Savage. My shooting partner was shooting a Surgeon. It was COLD, wet, and dirty and all 3 rifles had issues. Granted they weren't terribly major, the badger and surgeon needed wipe downs and lots of oil to get the bolts to work, and the 700's trigger broke down. My Savage had ice, and dirt in the action. I never oiled it, nor cleaned it out, nor did I baby it after bringing the freezing rifle inside to have it get soaked in condensation. I've never had a problem with this rifle.

Shortbus