How’s this compared to a Rap S HP? Range finder between the two is the same (1550nm). So this company been out since 2019? Oh, and the company is looking for workers too..
Last edited:
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Envision MARS-L Announced - Wilcox RAPTAR Killer?
- Thread starter NGCSUGrad09
- Start date
It doesn’t. Companies in this space tend to royally fuck everything up on delivery dates and sometimes don’t even come to market at all.
The Mars-L compares to the Wilcox Raptar when you can buy and take delivery of the thing in the Civilian Market as you can the Raptar.
Until then…
The Mars-L compares to the Wilcox Raptar when you can buy and take delivery of the thing in the Civilian Market as you can the Raptar.
Until then…
Yep. Been waiting for someone to actually take delivery on one of these and it keeps not happening. Til then the Raptar is the one to buy since you can actually get one.
Speaking of Raptar, was working my scope to put on my new AX. My Raptar is still fairly new. Made and got it back 2021 December. I don’t know about other mounted rangefinders as this was my first. I think this is awesome tool. My range I shoot at has unknown targets. And goes from 200 yards to 1500 yards Didn’t get into NF stuff with it yet. Planning on picking up another rifle by end of year. My son is thinking of picking up the MRF xe to put on his semi. I just don’t know about the MARS RF.
Here is what I got from Envision-Tek on September 4, 2022.
Thank you for reaching out to us and your interest in MARS-L. We are nearing full rate production and are able to take pre-orders if that is of interest to you? We will not charge or require payment until your unit is ready to ship. We will just need the attached form completed and sent back to me along with a copy of your driver's license to conduct visual compliance.
Price per unit is $8,799
Mike Cassidy
Sr. Director of Business Development
Thank you for reaching out to us and your interest in MARS-L. We are nearing full rate production and are able to take pre-orders if that is of interest to you? We will not charge or require payment until your unit is ready to ship. We will just need the attached form completed and sent back to me along with a copy of your driver's license to conduct visual compliance.
Price per unit is $8,799
Mike Cassidy
Sr. Director of Business Development
Attachments
Where are you getting $12,000? Quick google search shows a few places in “preorder” for $7800 give or take a few bucks.
I ran both types of setups for a while - Raptar AB and Raptar plain. I think past 1000yds the raptar AB gives you an advantage because its able to include rifle angle in the calculations which helps up in the hills where I normally shoot.
For most people they just won’t be worth it.
To be honest these LRF’s aren’t worth the money….for the average shooter. I say that as a business owner for one of the companies who is going to try and sell them. That might hurt my bottom line. But to everyone that thinks the price, etc is ridiculous. I hate to say it, but this wasnt made for you. That like complaining a submarine is too expensive.
These devices were made for the troops. These companies made these LRF’s with the expectation that they would sell maybe 20-30 thousand to DOD. Maybe a little more. And that was going to be ok with them. They knew the average shooter wasn’t going to be able to buy them. The thing that has changed in the last couple years, is that now these types of devices are actually for sale to the civilian consumer. And they weren’t before.
And now everyone is bent because they weren’t considered in the pricing.
The average shooter needs the SICO device because that’s what that device was designed for. It’s a shame it didn’t last longer.
Last edited:
Maybe I shouldn’t have said it. But when people are bringing Non-AB Raptars and SICO’s into the conversation, it’s just like wtf are we even talking about?
I truly don’t think the AB Raptar and this are in the same league. Or at least not the same Generation. Knowing the history behind the company, Envision set out to specifically defeat the Raptar. AND do it in a smaller package.
From having spent time behind both systems I’d say they did it. I don’t like the price either. But if I wanted a Weapon Mounted LRF that was bad at ranging anything smaller than man sized targets and has zero retention issues. I’d buy a Raptar.
I truly don’t think the AB Raptar and this are in the same league. Or at least not the same Generation. Knowing the history behind the company, Envision set out to specifically defeat the Raptar. AND do it in a smaller package.
From having spent time behind both systems I’d say they did it. I don’t like the price either. But if I wanted a Weapon Mounted LRF that was bad at ranging anything smaller than man sized targets and has zero retention issues. I’d buy a Raptar.
Last edited:
These guys are out their fn minds on price. Sig needs come forth a make a 2000$ unit with the kilo 10k ab engine, ir laser. Hell even vortex with fury 5k tech for a lil less. It would sell very well! Ratar S and Mars would fade into existence only seen in dod contracts.
I think a lot of people have been saying this now for a while. I still don’t understand why it hasn’t happened. If they can fit all that tech into a set of binos, I gotta imagine (bear with me, I’m not an engineer) it could fit into a small box mountable to a rifle and at a price point for the civilian market.
For me personally, I use my non-AB for competition stuff plus work stuff. Work ain’t buying me this stuff so I make the investment on my own because I know it can be helpful.
I admittedly like cool shit so the prospect of upgrading to one of these top tier units is appealing but without getting hands on, I just don’t know if it’s worth the investment from my own pocket for the upgrade. I don’t use NV so IR isn’t a necessity. With the Envision unit, as well as the MRF Xe, it’s definitely interesting. But right now, I range with my poor man’s Raptar and look at my small dope card.
I’d love an affordable high quality weapon mountable laser rangefinder with no frills or bells and whistles personally. I’m with you, I have no problem looking at a dope card. Or hell just let it link to my kestrel or Garmin watch for data.
The non-AB Raptar did that kind of, but it’s a generation behind on laser tech now. Hence the Mars and new Wilcox devices.
Maybe someone will head our calls.
The non-AB Raptar did that kind of, but it’s a generation behind on laser tech now. Hence the Mars and new Wilcox devices.
Maybe someone will head our calls.
Comparing Bino’s to weapon mounted LRF is apples and oranges.
1. Objective lens size: It’s relatively easy to get a range finder to get a good return with a large objective lens area like a bino has. My guess is you wouldn’t want another large objective hanging off your rifle.
2. Zero retention: the SICO didn’t last partially because of zero retention issues. That is also a problem with the Raptar. Rifle recoil is a real thing and bino tech doesn’t account for any of it.
1. Objective lens size: It’s relatively easy to get a range finder to get a good return with a large objective lens area like a bino has. My guess is you wouldn’t want another large objective hanging off your rifle.
2. Zero retention: the SICO didn’t last partially because of zero retention issues. That is also a problem with the Raptar. Rifle recoil is a real thing and bino tech doesn’t account for any of it.
With the increased proliferation of long range capable nv and thermal now I think the market for this type of device is MUCH bigger than when the radius came out. My only real gripe with the radius was the weight and how it wrecked the balance/stability of my rifles when you put it on a diving board. For pure ranging capability I actually preferred it to the raptar, even though it fell way short in the daylight.
I feel like the price on the MARS goes up $300 every time someone posts an update lol
I think the commentary on who the intended consumer was when these were designed is worth remembering.
for those who have gotten trigger time with one of these, how is the integration with other systems? would this be able to communicate with other AB tools like the Garmin Tactix, etc?
for those who have gotten trigger time with one of these, how is the integration with other systems? would this be able to communicate with other AB tools like the Garmin Tactix, etc?
Sync with AB kestrel was seemless. We did that for loading profiles. I didn’t link it to my Garmin. But my partner did for the match we shot with the MARS. I can’t remember him having any issues. I’ll have to ask.
Last edited:
Can we get specifications and the size of the display, and possibly a picture of the unit with display turned on and populated with a range.
I haven’t found anything like that published. I did however see a couple of them in the wild and had a chance to speak to the current end users who spoke very highly of the unit saying it is unrivaled at the moment and significantly better than the RAPTAR and MRFxe in every way. The display is very nice and holy shit the thing is small. I was told from a representative at Envision that the only difference between the civ and .mil unit is the vis laser. Nothing else has been nudered (as it should be). Mostly heresay so take it for what it’s worth.
@Eliteuas excited to hear about the group buy. I am currently in the que with envision tech but may switch over my order if that’s possible
*Edit for clarity
Last edited:
Is the display big enough to see and read with aging eyes? I have an older RAPTAR, no problems seeing that display, but the newer RAPTAR with AB the display hard to read.
I just was on their website again, was trying to look for at least pictures of the facility. I mean it is made in the US right? Also looking closely at the unit, well what ever pictures out there right now, it seems the housing is 2 piece? A little concerning, though if the company will be around for awhile to support if any problems arise. There is also lots of hex screws holding this thing together so I assume regular check up on these screws for tightning would be recommended. If this sell for 5k plus, it‘ll be damn worth the price point. Especially to be competitive. The MRF still looks a lot more compact though.
Not just about wavelength, how the unit pick up and analyzes the return data maters as well. Envision is a new company and with that carries “risk”. Keep in mind people said the same thing about ZComp when they first released the 5-27. “I’m not going to spend that kind of money on a scope where the company may not be around” blah blah. Wilcox doesn’t give a shit about the civilian market anyways. Goes back to the point that we aren’t the market for this product and in some respect I’m just glad they are offering it to us at all. It sucks, I wish someone would build a 905nm unit that held zero and didn’t cost a kidney but right now this unit is getting spoken of very highly and I am looking forward to getting one. @rlsmith1 is referencing something I mentioned in my original post but the unit ranges very well from what I have been told.
Well said.. Well I’ll be watching when these are released. And people have hands on with the unit. If it the unit brings the goods to the table, with everyone satisfied, ill be in for one. I already have a raptar S with hp, the hp features is insane looking at it with NV googles. And the HP vis laser is crazy bright. Using the hp vis laser I got the unit to co-align with my scope dead center at 2694 yards to be exact at dusk. Using a white wall that I could see with my scope.
I did get this HP unit new for less then $8799 which I can’t disclose. So I hope this MARS unit will be very competitive in pricing. Especially without any lp or hp features. I was looking at a MRF to mount on another rifle. But will hold off on that for now till this gets released. Until then, we’ll see. And good luck for the ones to get their hands on one.
A little read for anyone that doesn’t own a weapons mounted LRF. And in the market for one. Just for information. So that you can use your LRF to its full extent accurately. Don’t mind the unit the article it’s using for demostration. This should apply to any mounted LRF.
Last edited:
I’m holding out for either the MARS or MRF Xe. I was leaning towards the MRF but as details emerge, now very interested in the MARS. Could you elaborate a bit more on the Wilcox issues, or point me to where I could read more? Thanks in advance.MehI’ll stick with the MARS after seeing what wilcox did to its customers on the raptar. Permanently neutering devices and all. You know…
So seems this unit is getting more intriguing, price wise, well hopefully. Wilcox just raised their prices on the MRF and Raptars both S and ES versions. Substantially.. Called Wilcox to confirm too after seeing the prices on two known Wilcox distributors. TNVC and OTN. So hopefully this MARS unit again will be price competitive.
I was recently told that Sig is indeed working on an AB rifle mounted LRF and they plan to announce it at SHOT 2023 with a price target of $3-4K.
That’s gonna be a hard sell considering Sig’s rep for releasing products basically in beta and quickly dropping support.
I get where you’re coming from. This has been long in the works and many iterations later. Time will tell. I’m more worried about the anticipated release date versus realistic lead time.
At $4k, there is no other weapons LRF with AB even close.
Bout freaking time! I'll be buying one or two at that price! Having one linked to a bdx scope would be pretty cool with a thermal clip on, or where time limits really are of concern.
Sigs track record with LRF Bino's and Handhelds is substantially better than their other product lines support.
Heck the 3k was the benchmark for LRF Binos for a long time.
Guess who already owns a MRF, Raptar S or S E/S model is pretty much worth gold now. Which purchase for any of these Wilcox units before price increase ended being a investment.
Last edited:
That is great to hear!!! I'm about to start gunning some hogs on hunt leases and could use a weapons mounted range finder.
Similar threads
