I just looked and I guess Wilcox raised the MAP on the Raptar to over $10k? lol
Envision MARS-L Announced - Wilcox RAPTAR Killer?
- Thread starter NGCSUGrad09
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Sounds like Shot Show 2023 is when we'll find out minus the usual "leaks".
I was told it’s not going to have any NV-esque capabilities. Just AB LRF with Bluetooth (for phone app and Kestrel interface).
I dunno. Hope 1550, but my Spidey Senses tell me it’s probably ~900.
They are shipping them. I can vouch for that. They have been good to work with and my limited testing with my unit has so far been positive. I am new to this technology and probably can't answer all your questions. Others here likely can provide you with much better information and comparisons. I have no experience with the Raptar or any other WMLRF. I do have experience with quality range finders and currently own both the Vectronix Vector 21 and the PLRF 10.
I have used the MARS-Lc to engage 1.5 MOA targets to 1100 yds. I do like it and it has met my expectations so far. I do not use any night vision equipment and do not have it connected to a thermal scope and do not currently have any plans to do that.
I have used the MARS-Lc to engage 1.5 MOA targets to 1100 yds. I do like it and it has met my expectations so far. I do not use any night vision equipment and do not have it connected to a thermal scope and do not currently have any plans to do that.
I’m expecting to announce details later this week. Lots of exiting things to share, and we’re almost there. Models, price and available to come.
I will have a detailed comparison of my experience using the MARS and compare that to a Raptar which several of you are familiar with.
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They don’t call it the same thing. TracIR is for Oasys products - how they brand it.
What you are really asking is does it support disturbed reticles and HUD protocols - it 100% does.
I saw a few at last weekends Coleman’s Creek Sniper Comp. Got to play with one of them. The return and solution are very very fast. Scan feature is awesome. User interface is also very good. I own a Raptar and if these become available, I’d more than likely upgrade. Question to anyone in the know is… are they selling the 1550 models because I heard only 900 models would be available for general sale.
Yeah I know it’s iBeam protocol or whatever, but thx for the answer.
I got mine directly from Envision. I've had it on order for a long time. Yes, it is 1550 NM
Those who have hands on, can you compare digit size readout on display to both original Raptar and the new one with AB that has two lines of display. The later is too small for me to see, and I'm afraid that the MARS-L unit readout will be too small also. Maybe a side to side comparison picture would be best.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
I will cover this in a review later on. I've had this thing in hand for a while and want to make sure I've done it justice before sharing my thoughts.
Short answer is, there's a lot of adjustment in the MARS such that it really feels apples to oranges relative to the Raptar. From a display perspective, it's still small, but larger than the Raptar. The entire unit is only about the size of a business card.
If you have MARS related questions, feel free to call or text.
M.A.R.S. 1550nm LRF with Integrated Applied Ballistics
Today, 16 December 2022, The Envision Technology (M.A.R.S.) Miniature Advanced Rangefinder System family of lasers is officially on the market. The M.A.R.S. brings precision weapon-mounted laser range-finding capability to the user in an exceptionally small form factor. With an integrated...
www.snipershide.com
Dude the price on these has gone up like $1700 in the last 4 months, it’s not just inflation. It’s them seeing the new MSRP on the Raptar and knowing they can add 20% safely. Obviously they can price it however they want but this thread has made it very clear that people are tired of these being 5-figure devices, and it’s been frustrating watching the price quotes on these go up seemingly every two weeks.
I honestly think there can’t be an honest conversation about the outrageous price tag because too many people will chime in to bash you for complaining, call you a poor, say “you don’t understand”, etc etc etc.
Fact of the matter is, it’s a damn cool unit. I was lucky enough to mess with one at Colemans Creek Sniper Comp. Very impressive. But for the life of me, and I 100% admit I don’t know anything about manufacturing, don’t understand the price tag on these units. I’d love to be educated one day but I just can’t ever justify over $10k with tax for one.
I’d use it for comps but also for work on the LE side. Dept definitely isn’t shelling out the coin for it and it’s on me to buy it if I want it. Just ain’t gonna happen. It is what it is. I’ll stick to my poor man’s non-AB Raptar I got a couple years ago and a dope card.
Fact of the matter is, it’s a damn cool unit. I was lucky enough to mess with one at Colemans Creek Sniper Comp. Very impressive. But for the life of me, and I 100% admit I don’t know anything about manufacturing, don’t understand the price tag on these units. I’d love to be educated one day but I just can’t ever justify over $10k with tax for one.
I’d use it for comps but also for work on the LE side. Dept definitely isn’t shelling out the coin for it and it’s on me to buy it if I want it. Just ain’t gonna happen. It is what it is. I’ll stick to my poor man’s non-AB Raptar I got a couple years ago and a dope card.
Well, the reason they are priced so high is because the govt will pay it, after all, its not their money.
They can't sell it to us for 3k less than than uncle scam.
Of course, you'd think a market analysis would show that the number of units sold would increase by an amount so much higher in volume at a lower price than they can sell to mil+civ at higher price. They are loyal to the hand that feeds them and that ain't us.
They can't sell it to us for 3k less than than uncle scam.
Of course, you'd think a market analysis would show that the number of units sold would increase by an amount so much higher in volume at a lower price than they can sell to mil+civ at higher price. They are loyal to the hand that feeds them and that ain't us.
For me the MARS-Lc did feel like a big investment, but the price didn't surprise me. This is a 1550 nm military grade range finder and I expect to pay a lot for that. Consumer grade 905nm range finders have flooded the market and can be purchased for a couple hundred dollars in just about any sporting goods store. They are very economical and may be partially responsible for setting consumer pricing expectations. But the MARS was designed to a completely different standard and a completely different price point. The 1550 nm range finders are an eye safe frequency and can thus operate at much higher power levels (better ranging performance) without creating eye safety issues. The down side is they are much more expensive to manufacture. From what I have seen this unit is price competitive with other range finders of this specification and quality.
This is my first WMLRF but I have used many handheld rangefinders and my Vectronix Vector 21 was in a similar price range. For me, the difference in performance between this technology and the typical consumer grade range finder is worth the expense. For others, that might not be the case. A device like this is always going to be a niche market. I'm just glad Envision is willing to sell a civilian version and I'm glad I live in a country that allows civilians to own technology like this. Again, your mileage may vary. But in my humble opinion this thread would bring the most value from a robust discussion about the utility of the device.
This is my first WMLRF but I have used many handheld rangefinders and my Vectronix Vector 21 was in a similar price range. For me, the difference in performance between this technology and the typical consumer grade range finder is worth the expense. For others, that might not be the case. A device like this is always going to be a niche market. I'm just glad Envision is willing to sell a civilian version and I'm glad I live in a country that allows civilians to own technology like this. Again, your mileage may vary. But in my humble opinion this thread would bring the most value from a robust discussion about the utility of the device.
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@window2time finally someone who gets it.
Like I said earlier response to this thread. Envision has to be price competitive to existing competitors. And they did just that. Definitely less than L3harris or Wilcox current prices. I think this is a good buy for anyone wanting a weapons mounted, 1550nm grade laser. Once this unit goes sell out, I wouldn’t doubt these units will increase even more. So, anyone thinking of getting one should get in on this quick!
It’s weird that dudes are mansplaining the tech to me when I complained about the price. I own a Raptar and an L3 RULR. I am well aware of what’s going on inside the unit. That is completely unrelated to being annoyed that the company directly told us $8500 MSRP a couple months ago and now it’s $10k. That’s like when Magpul said the Masada would be $1500 and then it came out and was $2800.
That being said, it’s still the cheapest current offering for something with this feature set, so I expect them to sell well.
That being said, it’s still the cheapest current offering for something with this feature set, so I expect them to sell well.
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All this be as it may, I just ordered mine from CR2. Thanks, Chris!
How far out (range performance), has the MARS been able to hang with the 21’s?
I don't have a good answer for that. You are asking the question that we all need the answer to but unfortunately I am now buried in snow here so it might take me a while to get more data on that.
Of course the MARS has no trouble hitting big targets at 3000+ meters. But the question is at what distance can it still pickup relatively small steel plates. That is why I originally purchased the Vector 21 and it is very very good at small plates at ridiculous distances. As I mentioned previously, I had good results with the MARS ranging 1100 yard targets that were 1.5 MOA, but I need to push it out further.
I've been zeroing the MARS (at night) at 2074 yards against a garage door and the Vector 21 gives me the exact same distance. Again, I know that ranging the large surface isn't super relevant, I'm just trying to give you all the data points that I have.
I'll work on this but I know that @SkyScrapin is planning a review and he may already have these answers
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I'm also looking forward to @SkyScrapin review on it. I know he's had one for a bit and been putting it through the paces. Have my name down with SOK for when they get them in. Soon as these things were announced I knew I had to have one. Most excited about the size and weight of these things while maintaining performance. We have some 1moa ish plates from 1 mile out past 2 miles in KS and hoping this works well on those.
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It seems no IR Laser, if they put was VSCEL IR it could have been another selling point. Is the RAPTAR Edge emiting or VSCEL, I have a short duration looking at a RAPTAR that the owner kindly let me look at the illumination while I was under NODS. It seems like it’s edge emitting. Anyone can confirm if RAPTAR is edge emitting?
There is no IR laser. Just a VIS laser. The MARS LRF is a VSCEL. No idea about a RAPTAR. Can confirm the MRF Xe is a similar VSCEL LRF module.
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I don’t think VCSELs were being used for these applications when the Raptar came out. Certainly not for IR pointer/illuminator applications like the person above was asking. Maybe its LRF is VCSEL but I have never read any documentation on that question.
I am remaining optimistic. I believe the divergence of the 21 is .4 x .7 mil. So that's 14.4" x 25.2" @ 1k and 28.8" x 50.4" @ 2k.
Only source I could find on the Raptar says <1mil. So to me that means just under 36"x36" @ 1k. Just under 72" @2k. Assuming the beam dimension is circular. Well over 3moa.
The factor that's unaccounted for with WMLRF is the mount variability. The two best I tested still had a +/-.5mil of flex with horizontal force, vertical force seemed dead nuts. But, both had RTZ with no force. So overall mount variability "can" still be an influence.
I don't know the MARS specs, but I'm hoping real life tests show great things, with ability to fill that role.
You can create them on the unit itself or push them from a Kestrel via BT
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