Night Vision EOTECH CLIP ON THERMALS ( Full details)

[DownRangeThermal]

On the topic of rail flex, If you zero your rifle prone then go to clipped into a tripod I have noticed that I get a POI shift. I leave the reticle turned on and "zeroed" to the same position as my day optic. This way when clipped into a tripod I can see if i am inducing any rail flex. Are you saying that rail flex is irrelevant and the POI should be the same from prone with the bipod on the fore end and clipped into a tripod just in front of the magwell?

I'm not sure if i'm following exactly. In a true unity clip-on then the thermal moving up and down with rail flex will not shift poi. Some long range clip on thermals like INOD have a mechanical elevator/erector built into the mount that you can activate for elr shooting. ( increses cant down of thermal by 20moa for example. That would not change your poi..... only allow for more screen to be usable/visable for your day optic erector when dialing. When a properly collimated unit is truly unity throughout the width of the eye-piece (that's key) you can literally hand hold it in front of your primary optic.

 

[Dogtown]

When I look at the ELR, all the Trekkie inside me sees is the planet-killer from the original series episode “Doomsday Machine”.

 

[brodband8]

FIXED DIOPTER
INOD
HISS XLR
>>>UTC X XII<<<
IWS-LR
IWS-I/FWS-i
theon xelr/EOTECH ELR
CRATOS
BAE FWS-S ( did not win contract)
All products awarded MAS-N ( several Manf) for SOCOM
PVS 22

Please tell me where I can get UTC XXii, need to upgrade from my crappy Xii.

On a side note, I believe you can at least move the TracIR reticle way off to the side so it's easier to ignore.

 

[CoryT]

Has anyone yet received the software to connect via the USB cable?

 

[Conqueror]

No @CoryT, I have heard back a couple times from the US head of Theon and their Director of Law Enforcement, they too are having issues getting it working so I have been giving them a little time to get it right. If I can get a working copy from them my plan is to give it to Dan to see if we can get it distributed to owners. The software will come with an exe file and a readme with instructions.

 

[Conqueror]

Update @CoryT: I was finally able to get a copy of the batch files that allow retrieval of the stored images. I am awaiting permission from Theon to share the files with other owners, once they say yes I will figure out how to spread the .rar around. Initial impressions:

1) The stored images are 640x480 to match the sensor, and about 180kB each, when captured on the highest file size setting. I was only able to store 12 images before filling the device so its internal storage must be a tiny ~2.1mB.

2) The process of retrieval is janky as fuck lol. You install a couple drivers, then look in your device manager to find out what COM port your USB is on your computer, then run a second .exe that pulls up a DOS prompt for the port number, then it takes about 3-5 minutes to download the 2.1mB of images into a folder it creates. You cannot access the device like it's a USB drive and you will still have to go back into the device and manually delete all the images from its memory after downloading.

3) The images are accurate to what the sensor sees, of course, but you don't have the benefit of an optical zoom day scope behind them. Taking a snapshot and looking at it zoomed in on your computer monitor does NOT give the same image quality as using the device in person and zooming in on the rear screen with a magnifying optic.

Here is a snapshot from 100 yards:

Here is a snapshot out to 1000 yards. If you look at the far tree line you will see a large square sign hanging in a tree about 20 feet off the ground. Directly below that is an unheated IPSC at about 980 yards.

Here is that same range as it actually appeared through my ZCO when I took the snapshot and had a magnified optic behind the ClipIR (iPhone photo through scope). The red arrow is on a 12" swinger circle at the same range and the IPSC is just to the left of that - much easier to see when you're actually using it.

 

[CoryT]

Excellent. I’m in the process of connecting the video out to see what I can do with that via the camera system I’ve got.

 

[Conqueror]

Thus far I would say the best way to get general pics through a ClipIR is to A) Take a snapshot, and then B) take a through-the-scope photo of that snapshot at a later convenient time. The raw snapshots are only useful if you need images without a reticle/display info overlaid.

 

[rlsmith1]

Update @CoryT: I was finally able to get a copy of the batch files that allow retrieval of the stored images. I am awaiting permission from Theon to share the files with other owners, once they say yes I will figure out how to spread the .rar around. Initial impressions:

1) The stored images are 640x480 to match the sensor, and about 180kB each, when captured on the highest file size setting. I was only able to store 12 images before filling the device so its internal storage must be a tiny ~2.1mB.

2) The process of retrieval is janky as fuck lol. You install a couple drivers, then look in your device manager to find out what COM port your USB is on your computer, then run a second .exe that pulls up a DOS prompt for the port number, then it takes about 3-5 minutes to download the 2.1mB of images into a folder it creates. You cannot access the device like it's a USB drive and you will still have to go back into the device and manually delete all the images from its memory after downloading.

3) The images are accurate to what the sensor sees, of course, but you don't have the benefit of an optical zoom day scope behind them. Taking a snapshot and looking at it zoomed in on your computer monitor does NOT give the same image quality as using the device in person and zooming in on the rear screen with a magnifying optic.

Here is a snapshot from 100 yards:
View attachment 7995568

Here is a snapshot out to 1000 yards. If you look at the far tree line you will see a large square sign hanging in a tree about 20 feet off the ground. Directly below that is an unheated IPSC at about 980 yards.
View attachment 7995569

Here is that same range as it actually appeared through my ZCO when I took the snapshot and had a magnified optic behind the ClipIR (iPhone photo through scope). The red arrow is on a 12" swinger circle at the same range and the IPSC is just to the left of that - much easier to see when you're actually using it.

Impressive… is that unheated steel that is hot from the sun still or is the unit able to detect that steel under most conditions at that distance?

 

[Conqueror]

That was early morning in the daylight; I don’t have access to Altus at midnight (I can dream though). Hard for me to give firsthand report at that distance in pitch black or cold conditions. With its different enhancement modes I suspect one could get a similar view on a cool night on the Dynamic or Wide Range settings which really improve contrast when the whole scene is the same temperature.

 

[DownRangeThermal]

We have a couple of ELR units available. These are the last ones for the foreseeable future ...was expecting these to be all accounted for but had 1 dealer back off their number.

 

[jstokes1]

When I get the test xelr at the end of the month, I'll post some comparison with the Voodoo M. So let the games begin!

 

[PlinkIt]

We have a couple of ELR units available. These are the last ones for the foreseeable future ...was expecting these to be all accounted for but had 1 dealer back off their number.

You don't expect to see a repeat run of ELR units specifically?
Or are you expecting a dropped production of all the units across the board?

 

[Ksracer]

Impressive… is that unheated steel that is hot from the sun still or is the unit able to detect that steel under most conditions at that distance?

Last time I was at the range it had been overcast with intermittent misting rain and a steady temp of 50* for the previous 24hrs. I was barely able to make out a few pcs of steel @400yds.

 

[Conqueror]

That’s about as bad as conditions get for thermal.

Bad news fellas… Theon has expressly told me I am not allowed to share the snapshot retrieval software. I told them it’s a waste of everyone’s time for each owner to have to contact customer service individually to request it, but that appears to be what they want for now. I have strongly encouraged them to get it on a website somewhere for owners to download. My best advice at this time is to reach out to EoTech CS and request it.

 

[CoryT]

Not allowed? They’ll what, take away your birthday, bend your dog tags, stamp your meal card ‘no dessert’? Got a contact number/person? 3 or 4 calls a day from each owner ought to move the needle on that.

 

[Conqueror]

It’s their software and they own the copyright on it presumably so they would probably have some legal remedy. I also just don’t want to piss them off when they hold the warranty on a very expensive electronic device I own. I just got my Raptar back from having its main board replaced under warranty so I’m a little sensitive to that. But yes, I told them a ton of people want this and I encourage everyone to start calling them about it. Frankly my impression is that Theon isn’t used to having civilian products they have to support and they want EoTech to just be the ones getting all the calls.

 

[jstokes1]

So, these are images through the Voodoo M. Day optic was an NX 2.5-20x50. House 275 yards away. First image is at 2.5x, second at 6x, and the last at 20x. Horses are at 50 and 75 yards respectively. 6x optical mag. For all images, the brightness is set to 3, PID CE at 1, and contrast 1.

Weather conditions....rough. -3⁰ at the time of these pictures and it's been overcast/snowing for the last 3 days.

From what I have seen on other threads, the xELR is going to have a slight edge on magnification support due to the massive germanium lens, better warranty, longer battery life, and potentially better recoil rating. The cons are weight and profile, so it comes down to your personal use case. All in all, if you want max magnification support, the xELR is your brother in Christ. If you want something smaller that still has a ton of magnification support and is primarily going to be used on AR-type platforms, then the Voodoo M has an edge. Not trying to poo poo on the thread, just merely a comparison to add to the info placed above (I'll start a dedicated thread on this.)

 

[DownRangeThermal]

You don't expect to see a repeat run of ELR units specifically?
Or are you expecting a dropped production of all the units across the board?

Working on 2023 but i wouldn't expect any new deliveries until 2nd quarter of next yr.

 

[Conqueror]

TigIR 6z+ vs ClipIR-ELR. Group of cars in the dark, approximately 200 yards, roughly 6.5x magnification.

HVAC units on top of an industrial building, 600 yards, 10x mag. The bright thing in the middle is a halogen light source.

Not even a contest.

 

[jstokes1]

Just further reinforces that the Tig was a severe underpreformer in the LR category

 

[Conqueror]

Yeah, it’s unfortunate that Andres marketed it that way to some degree. I still like the unit, it is very solid at hog hunting ranges and can take way more mag than an RH25 or Voodoo despite being only a hair larger. But it’s not for hunting enemy soldiers at 600yds.

 

[tangloppen]

Seems that the issue is lacking focus.

But the image quality of the ELR is just bonkers.

 

[Conqueror]

Yeah the ELR smokes it in image quality and the Tig honestly isn’t a slouch in that department with a 640 12um 8° FLIR core.

 

[Ksracer]

But it’s not for hunting enemy soldiers at 600yds.

I dropped a coyote the first night out at 508yds with the ELR. Absolutely no problem.

I took a poke at one at 700+ also. I missed, but I didn't feel like the scope was holding me back at all. It was just a bad shot on my part.

 

[TheHorta]

Just further reinforces that the Tig was a severe underpreformer in the LR category

I have to say, my Tig 6M was spectacular. Way better than the 6Z+ I have. Not sure why there is such a difference, but there clearly is.

 

[evilsvt]

I know I’m not supposed to jump the gap but it is what it is.

Shit, thought this was the c35 thread.

 

[aslrookie]

In the midwest, there are not as many places to shoot yotes past a few hundred yards. This makes me lean more towards the LR vs the ELR unit. I would want it to work with my Mk5 5-25 and my Vudu 1-10x. Would the LR fit this role?

 

[aslrookie]

Yes. I have a customer that has both that just got an ELR from me that can contact you if you’d like, he’s going to unload his LR at a great discount.

My bonus doesn't hit for a couple more months yet. Poor people problems.

 

[Ksracer]

In the midwest, there are not as many places to shoot yotes past a few hundred yards. This makes me lean more towards the LR vs the ELR unit. I would want it to work with my Mk5 5-25 and my Vudu 1-10x. Would the LR fit this role?

You'll loose a lot of FOV with a low end of 5x, but it should work fine. I'd bet the LR is capable of 400+ also.

 

[aslrookie]

You'll loose a lot of FOV with a low end of 5x, but it should work fine. I'd bet the LR is capable of 400+ also.

I would use the 1-10x for the shorter range stuff on a 14.5 5.56 gun and longer range with the 6.5cm. I was thinking the 5x would be a little high for base mag, but if the yotes are further out, I was thinking the FOV isn't as big of an issue?

 

[Conqueror]

More FOV can be handy for scanning the terrain for targets. Not as important if you'll be scanning with a handheld monocular or something but if the optic is your main scanner, a constricted FOV can be difficult to use.

 

[Ksracer]

I would use the 1-10x for the shorter range stuff on a 14.5 5.56 gun and longer range with the 6.5cm. I was thinking the 5x would be a little high for base mag, but if the yotes are further out, I was thinking the FOV isn't as big of an issue?

More FOV can be handy for scanning the terrain for targets. Not as important if you'll be scanning with a handheld monocular or something but if the optic is your main scanner, a constricted FOV can be difficult to use.

Even in open ground with 4 people scanning we end up with coyotes on top of us wondering where the hell they came from.

You'll be fine if you're scanning with a monocular, but I wouldn't want to start a stand with 5x on the bottom end as my only option. 3x is starting to cut into the FOV on the ELR, and it's already narrow to begin with. It'll work, but I bet you don't see some coyotes until they're running away from you.

Either way, I'm sure you'll love an LR. I almost bought one instead of the ELR because of the extra FOV.

 

[aslrookie]

Even in open ground with 4 people scanning we end up with coyotes on top of us wondering where the hell they came from.

You'll be fine if you're scanning with a monocular, but I wouldn't want to start a stand with 5x on the bottom end as my only option. 3x is starting to cut into the FOV on the ELR, and it's already narrow to begin with. It'll work, but I bet you don't see some coyotes until they're running away from you.

Either way, I'm sure you'll love an LR. I almost bought one instead of the ELR because of the extra FOV.

I have dual tube NVG's so the thermal wouldn't be my only means of seeing in the dark. I am sure the 1-10x would be used more frequently since the longer distance shots are less available in my immediate area.

 

[CoryT]

If you are looking for a field carry case for the ELR or LR, the Jelly Roll from Hazard 4 seems to work pretty well. Fits the unit with spare batteries and the light shroud. The slip on lens cap for the ELR to replace the factory disaster should be available sometime next week from Strictly Offensive Kit. Works with the ARD installed as well, as opposed to the factory part.

 

[Conqueror]

I’ve been hoping someone would make something like that.

 

[Burdy]

I would use the 1-10x for the shorter range stuff on a 14.5 5.56 gun and longer range with the 6.5cm. I was thinking the 5x would be a little high for base mag, but if the yotes are further out, I was thinking the FOV isn't as big of an issue?

You'll loose a lot of FOV with a low end of 5x, but it should work fine. I'd bet the LR is capable of 400+ also.

Its 4x on my 1-10.

 

[SkyScrapin]

If you are looking for a field carry case for the ELR or LR, the Jelly Roll from Hazard 4 seems to work pretty well. Fits the unit with spare batteries and the light shroud. The slip on lens cap for the ELR to replace the factory disaster should be available sometime next week from Strictly Offensive Kit. Works with the ARD installed as well, as opposed to the factory part.

View attachment 8002928
View attachment 8002929

Thanks for posting this Cory. All of our ELR customers will receive one with each unit purchased. Many of you will be getting them either next week or week after along with hardcase and ARD.

 

[JKGTR]

Looks like I may be waiting til next years tax season.

 

[cantankerous]

I have dual tube NVG's so the thermal wouldn't be my only means of seeing in the dark. I am sure the 1-10x would be used more frequently since the longer distance shots are less available in my immediate area.

Trying to find coyotes on the move with a rifle and clip on just sucks.

I ended up buying a flir Breach after having a close call with a skunk, and now I see a lot more animals using the head mounted thermal than I used to with just the clip on.

 

[Conqueror]

@SkyScrapin will you sell those separately?

 

[CoryT]

If they choose not to place them on the site for sale, I’ll make them available. Last ones are coming off the printer, so Preston will get the initial order next week.

 

[Conqueror]

Those look really nice for prints, are they MJF?

 

[CoryT]

Tough-X resin on an Elegoo Saturn. They are a PITA to print, but they do work well and the material is super durable.

 

[ifly4vamerica]

Don't mean to hijack but @stefan73 here are the PVS 30 pics. Sorry it took so long and the quality isn't great, I will redo them with the triggercam sometime next week. That house is at 400m first pic is no illuminator, we had partly cloudy skies and no moon. Second is raptar s illuminator on low last is the raptar s on high. I have also attached the specs for the tube I got. Jay did a great job, I would recommend him 100%.

 

[robozebra]

Tough-X resin on an Elegoo Saturn. They are a PITA to print, but they do work well and the material is super durable.

Can’t wait to replace the disaster covers on the LR and ELR. One of the straps broke on the LR. EOTech customer service was less than helpful. “A replacement part will be available to purchase at some point in the future” was the response I received. It‘s a brand new unit! So much for a 10 year warranty. I messaged back informing them how poor CS it was to suggest someone buy a replacement for a faulty part and I was hoping there’d be an aftermarket solution soon. Glad to see it is in production. Put me down for 2!!

I purchased 2 of the Jelly Roll cases. Thanks for the heads up there!

 

[upSLIDEdown]

Don't mean to hijack but @stefan73 here are the PVS 30 pics. Sorry it took so long and the quality isn't great, I will redo them with the triggercam sometime next week. That house is at 400m first pic is no illuminator, we had partly cloudy skies and no moon. Second is raptar s illuminator on low last is the raptar s on high. I have also attached the specs for the tube I got. Jay did a great job, I would recommend him 100%. View attachment 8007112View attachment 8007113View attachment 8007114View attachment 8007115

Gaaahhhhh! So that was your unit he posted pics of on social not long ago. That’s a beast of an Elbit.

 

[ifly4vamerica]

Gaaahhhhh! So that was your unit he posted pics of on social not long ago. That’s a beast of an Elbit.

LOL, I guess so. It's so much nicer than what it shows in the pics. There are a couple defects but nothing that impairs it's use at all. I was going to buy a new one in WP but would never get a tube this good.

 

[rlsmith1]

Don't mean to hijack but @stefan73 here are the PVS 30 pics. Sorry it took so long and the quality isn't great, I will redo them with the triggercam sometime next week. That house is at 400m first pic is no illuminator, we had partly cloudy skies and no moon. Second is raptar s illuminator on low last is the raptar s on high. I have also attached the specs for the tube I got. Jay did a great job, I would recommend him 100%. View attachment 8007112View attachment 8007113View attachment 8007114View attachment 8007115

Those are some great specs. I’m saving t have him upgrade my 30 now.

How do you like the tremor reticle? Seems like it would simplify a lot of things at night?

 

[ifly4vamerica]

Those are some great specs. I’m saving t have him upgrade my 30 now.

How do you like the tremor reticle? Seems like it would simplify a lot of things at night?

I love the Tremor, but I have been using it a longggg time. I also had a couple of Todd's videos and was lucky enough to attend a class that Todd taught at his range in Texas.

It's to busy for some people but once you learn how to use it I think it makes things a lot simpler. But to each his own. You can also apply a lot of his techniques with other reticles.