Everyday Sniper Podcast: Knowledge Bomb Edition: Rise of the Valkyrie

[JM4590]

I have pushed the 80.5 Bergers to within 70fps of 3000 with MR2000. It will drive stuff fast. But I find it to be pretty sensitive to temps. Going to load some 85.5 with Varget and test next weekend. Hoping to get at least 2800. IMO, none of these bullet powder combos are viable unless it is with a temp stable powder. Doesn’t do me any good to load max + at 70deg only to have a stuck bolt at a match in the summer where temps hit 90+

 

[Jackomason]

Looking forward to your results! Keep us posted. I’ve tried cfe223, h4895, h4350. My most consistent load with the best velocity was with h4895, but I’m curious to see what you come up with.

I had less time to load than I had hoped but I did stuff a bunch of N555 in some cases. Vihts website says 26.2 is compressed but I was able to fit 27.6gr in with starline cases and the long freebore.

Kernels seem smaller than h4350. Flows a little better and no bridging in the funnel. This is 27.6gr

This powder is what I was most curious about. I'm really hoping they stopped cause it was a compressed load and not because of pressure signs. Either way I'll tread softly.

 

[Rillhurst]

To continue representation in this thread by NOVA shooters and serve as champion for the ‘Poors’…
Using a stock CZ-600 24 inch barrel, 7 twist

BRASS - once fired Federal (primer pockets checked). ALL brass viewed as “disposable“ to capture velocities on select powder (Caution: buyer beware)

POWDER - Win 760 - BIG GAME - 8208 XBR

BULLET - 90 SMK - 88 ELD - 80 ELD

PRIMER - CCI #41

OAL - 2.30 (mag length)

ENVIRO - 80 degrees - HIGH humidity (Hey, it’s Virginia!)

ALL - 5 shoot groups (suppressed) across Magnetospeed V.3

The 90gr SMK were the most promising for the day.
WIN 760 - 28.3gr and BIG GAME - 26.8gr both grouped sub-
3/4 MOA across the Magneto….
As a first adopter from 2018, was truly surprised seeing the first 3 - 90 SMK go into an oval at .163 MOA with the WIN 760.


WIN 760 27.4gr 80 ELD 2798 fps
WIN 760 27.4gr 90 SMK 2737 fps
WIN 760 28.3gr 80 ELD 2891 fps
WIN 760 28.3gr 90 SMK 2833 fps

BIG GAME 26.8gr 88 ELD 2730 fps
BIG GAME 26.8gr 90 SMK 2700 fps
BIG GAME 27.6gr 88 ELD 2790 fps
BIG GAME 27.6gr 90 SMK 2777 fps

8208 XBR 22.4gr 80 ELD 2682 fps
8208 XBR 25 gr 80 ELD 2937 fps

Saw 8208 XBR - 25 gr earlier in this thread with 88 ELD but wadded into the “Kiddie Pool” using 80 ELD. Still trashed the primer pockets in 4 out of 5 of the Federal Cases.

Should be interesting to see where this goes with some Starline Brass…

 

[Rocketvapor]

Has anyone tried SB 6.5 in the V with 88/90gr?
Seems a couple loads have been added to the Hodgdon data.
Might need a long load to fit enough powder.
I'm playing with it in my 22N and the velocity is up there.

 

[Diverhunter]

29.5 of StaBal gets me a little over 2800 with 88s.

 

[Rocketvapor]

What barrel length? Was that in your gasser?

 

[Rillhurst]

28.8 gr of StaBall in 24 inch bolt - AV 2806 S-D 5.3

 

[Diverhunter]

What barrel length? Was that in your gasser?

26in barrel on my bolt gun.....it might be a little faster now as that was in the first 100rds.

 

[Diverhunter]

29.5 of StaBal gets me a little over 2800 with 88s.

I just shot 29.5gr Stabal with 85.5gr Bergers @2885 with an SD 6.0

 

[Rocketvapor]

SB6.5 gives me an easy 100+fps (88 and 90gr) over other powders I have tried in the 22N.
That's why I expressed interest in what it will do in the V.
Thanks.
2900+ should be doable in the V with 28".

 

[Jackomason]

OK, I got out with the N555 on my lunch break and decided to spend these 88gr eldms on some prairie dogs. If the goal was 2900fps then this powder isn't the best choice. Absolutely no pressure signs so I'm tempted to cram more powder in there maybe 28gr +

As a bonus/teaser, I tested 28.3gr of win 760. I started with max because I was feeling frisky.

3 shots @28.3gr win 760 88gr eldm

1- 2890
2- 2901
3- 2892

 

[VSP968]

Berger Long Range Hybrid Target Bullets .224 Diameter (22 Caliber) 85.5 Grain Open Tip Match | Powder Valley Outdoors

Berger 22 caliber 85.5 grain long range hybrid target rifle bullets offer performance unmatched by other manufacturers.

www.powdervalleyinc.com

100 count boxes in stock…

 

[Jackomason]

A friend asked me to order him some primers. I piggy backed on that hazmat fee to try out some 6.5 Staball. Thanks for the idea guys.

 

[Diverhunter]

Ain't been much on here for a bit.....

 

[Jackomason]

I went on vacation to the mother land... sad to report that Canada is now officially in a totalitarian state.

Ill pick up where I left asap.

 

[mahlv]

I got a sheep tag so Valk is on the back burner for a bit. I don't feel bad about it either

 

[Jackomason]

Between strings 2 and 3 I decided to shoot the handgun some to let the supressor cool. I forgot to hide the mag in the shade and the colorado sun cooked that thing. Thought it was worth shooting still just to see if the speed was worth the trade offs in temperature stability.

Once again. My barrels happy spot is 2750fps.

 

[Diverhunter]

.224 Valkyrie

Alright here goes my Poor's attempt to make some Valkyrie brass. Enough at least to standardize on one brand for a bit. A teaser. Federal once fired capacity is 32.4 gr Hornady Twice fired is 31.2 gr Starline once fired is 31.9 gr ??? Mystery brass 1 x fire formed is 32.7 gr The bad news is I...

www.snipershide.com

Worth the read gentlemen.

 

[Jackomason]

Varget hit pretty hard pressure signs at 25.7 so I stopped, not sure what happened with the last shot with StaBALL, h4350 was just starting to shot the ejector on the last shot and IMR 4350 was beyond packed in there. I may play with IMR4350 more just because I have so much and its easily achieving the velocities I've already been using.

 

[JM4590]

Shot today at Bang Steel in Wytheville,Va. Ran the 85.5 Bergers with 25gr of Varget. Temps in mid 80’s. Alt Dens was around 4200. Wind would come and go at around 7-8 O clock to the line and speed anywhere from 0- highest I saw was 4.2. My personal best was a target today at 1040. Rules of engagement on this target was 5 shots, and you had 20 seconds for all five from your first shot. This was the last target in the series of 6 previous targets. Not a fan of cranking out 5 shots in 20 seconds after shooting about 15 prior, but hey, it’s Valkyrie baby! I hit 4 out of the 5. Closest shot today was around 430 or so I think and longest was 1200. My biggest disappointment was the 1200. It was a 2/3 IPSEC torso I believe, three shots, no indicator light. I think I hit it at least once out of three, but no joy on the call. I think this is the price we pay for the Valk at longer range. No big deal as the match is more bragging rights than anything, but , the asshole that went to the match with me beat me by one target to take third place. LOL! 14 shooters today, no one brave enough to try the Valk. Most were 6.5 Creed. The guy who took third was shooting 6GT. Great round, and he is a good shooter. Beauty of the day was that I was able to spot hits and misses(except the 1200) , make corrections, and rock on. Wind played little effect today. Most I held was .6 at the 1200, and the rest were .2 or .4 making center hits. DOPE from Kestrel AB was spot on as far as elevation. And I entered the info manually. Have learned not to use the AB bullet data….but that is whole nother discussion.

Buy Valkyrie, build Valkyrie, shoot Valkyrie. The caliber gives up nothing for MOST shooting scenarios , and for most shooters. If you want to be money competitor then maybe not, otherwise it rocks!

How about a P.S…..take a Frank and Mark class. Their class taught me a great deal about Kestrel, shooting fundamentals, and weaponized math. Oh yea….and rye whiskey!

JM

 

[TNSleeper99]

Not advising others follow this road, but I’m doing some load development with starline brass, h4895, 85.5 Hybrids. I’m just really getting started trying to speed up the Valkyrie with a little bit lighter projectile. I have had good success with the 88’s at 2800-ish, but felt it was too much of a compromise to the 6mm for competition.

I’ll include a picture of my note card with velocities, but I was overall pleased. I’ve loaded 25 more at 25.0grn that should be at 2900fps. At this speed Im right with the BR/BRA crowd and a lot of the shooters are starting to throttle back their dashers with the 105-109 projectiles. More to come on this, but I think the 85.5’s @2900 are a legitimate option for me.

 

[TNSleeper99]

Not sure why that picture went into landscape mode, but here is some more testing with the starline brass, h4895, 85.5’s and a barrel tuner. I’m not sure why the second group at 25.0 charge weight went to shit, could be the shooter! The rest of the groups were consistent though and the speeds are there. I think the next time I’m going to be able to shoot a match is December at K&M, but I’m planning on running something similar to this there. We’ll see where land in relation to my previous performance this year.

 

[Lowlight]

Guys Kevin came to class this week with his 224V bolt gun, and he has the 85.5gr Bergers going 2950fps with 28grs of CFE223 and the load is absolutely amazing

The drop at 1000 yards in PA was 7.7 and hammer accurate, at 1040, he was hitting a 12" plate with ease, 8.3 Mils

You can see the bullet trace, you can see the impacts and it moves the plate

Using the new BulletSeeker Radar, I chronograhed my Valk Build with the factory 90s and I am 2785fps, so clearly we need those nice Bergers going faster to truly move the Valk alongside the rest and boy did it work

I was rarely more than .5 in some sporty winds, I really appreciate Kevin knocking this out as I have been so busy, I need to get my press to the new place as I have the dies... 85.5 for the win

 

[Lowlight]

 

[Jackomason]

Did Kevin mention brass life? Cause sadly, at this point, it matters.

Also, Rocky Mountain Reloading has a new 75gr bthp that may shine for cheap practice ammo. A friend and I are splitting 500 to see hoe they shoot in a Valk and 223 rem.

 

[Lowlight]

It's probably too soon and it's not a hot load,

As he noted, most of the reloading data is for a gas gun, so they reduce everything because we are in a bolt gun the 28grs works with no pressure signs.

He is using Starline, so maybe he can pop in and say what they look like

 

[Drumie]

Thanks Frank for putting this up here. This is my gun and load he is talking about. I have tried this load in some Hornady brass and only did 2 reloads with it. So far no issues at all. This was the 1st load with the Starline brass. There is no pressure signs at all with load. I assume brass life will be good with it. And Frank is right, this load hammers. It is so easy shooting this gun. I put up my AI and shot this the 2nd day at class.

 

[Drumie]

This is what the brass looks like.

 

[TNSleeper99]

Guys Kevin came to class this week with his 224V bolt gun, and he has the 85.5gr Bergers going 2950fps with 28grs of CFE223 and the load is absolutely amazing

The drop at 1000 yards in PA was 7.7 and hammer accurate, at 1040, he was hitting a 12" plate with ease, 8.3 Mils

You can see the bullet trace, you can see the impacts and it moves the plate

Using the new BulletSeeker Radar, I chronograhed my Valk Build with the factory 90s and I am 2785fps, so clearly we need those nice Bergers going faster to truly move the Valk alongside the rest and boy did it work

I was rarely more than .5 in some sporty winds, I really appreciate Kevin knocking this out as I have been so busy, I need to get my press to the new place as I have the dies... 85.5 for the win

Thanks for this, I’ve got all the components listed. I drop down a bit on the CFE and load up to near that load and be another data point with the 85.5’s. Long live the Valkyrie!

 

[TNSleeper99]

Thanks Frank for putting this up here. This is my gun and load he is talking about. I have tried this load in some Hornady brass and only did 2 reloads with it. So far no issues at all. This was the 1st load with the Starline brass. There is no pressure signs at all with load. I assume brass life will be good with it. And Frank is right, this load hammers. It is so easy shooting this gun. I put up my AI and shot this the 2nd day at class.

Thanks for chiming in, I’ve been loading Valkyrie with h4895 for a few years but I was shooting 6CM for match days. I’ve got some CFE laying around. Gonna try and load up something similar for my bolt gun and see if I can do as well as you. Keep us posted on brass life.

 

[Lowlight]

I will make a different post but, I ran with Drumie's numbers and go this

This was my first look with 28gr of CFE223 and loaded to 1.775, I think I can knock it back a bit, and then tighten it up,

I am thinking either 27.7 or 27.5 and then load for accuracy, although I am thinking of using a Tuner and seeing what that does first as I might want to use the Tuner to Tune the Load for accuracy once I solidify my numbers a bit.

The brass looked good at 28grs, but I think I will drop down a tick, it was cooler out and I had one swipe mark

The blue primer is factory 90s, and the others are my reloads, one little swipe and the speeds at 3085fps were faster than I need.

Time to tune up and tighten the load, but at 3085fps I was like 2.5 Mils to 600

 

[Lowlight]

Some basic numbers at the current speed

this looks correct based on my few shots at 600

 

[Drumie]

Looking good Frank. I knew you would be faster at your elevation than what I shoot at my house or at the range in PA. I used the tuner also. Messing with loads didn't tighten it up enough for me, but once I put a tuner on it really tightened it up. Now you got your self a hammer too.

 

[Lowlight]

I found my number, the groups were good too, probably not gonna have to tune it with a tuner, it strung a tick vertical on me both at 100 and 600 but it was a solid load

Call it like 4" of vertical, I think I can tune that out, but might not have too, it was pretty good, but I have options

I think I am running to press with this load, 27.5gr of CFE223, 1.795" to Ogive, Berger 85.5gr

According to the software with this load, and it played out at 600,

65 degrees, 4500ASL, 6000DA

6.9 Mils to 1000 yards

2.8 Mils to 600 yards

At 1000 yards it's a 4MPH Gun and at 600 Yards it's a 7MPH gun as the light bullet falls off

 

[6.5SH]

Bit of SWAG on the powder space but lines up in a few ways IMO.

 

[Lowlight]

I sorta swagged it,

I had Kevin's starting load, which worked great in his rifle, repeating it, was too hot for my rifle, so I backed off just a tick and then ran 4 sets at different seating depths. Boom, it worked out nicely.

After I cleaned it, I ran some factory numbers and they were pretty similar for the Hornady Black 75gr

So I figured I was on the right track

 

[357Max]

Bit of SWAG on the powder space but lines up in a few ways IMO.

View attachment 7981178
View attachment 7981179

So you don't have to swag it.

* Fed 1 x, length 1.590, Dry 117.5/Wet 149.9 = 32.4
Hornady 2 x, length 1.583, Dry 122.8/Wet 154.0 = 31.2
Starline Virgin, length 1.5905, Dry 119.6/Wet 150.5 = 30.9
#1 Starline 1 x, length 1.5905, Dry 118.9/Wet 150.8 = 31.9
#2 Starline 1 x, length 1.590, Dry 119.1/Wet 150.9 = 31.8

Converted 24 Nosler brass = 32.7 uses 223 bolt.

 

[6.5SH]

So you don't have to swag it.

* Fed 1 x, length 1.590, Dry 117.5/Wet 149.9 = 32.4
Hornady 2 x, length 1.583, Dry 122.8/Wet 154.0 = 31.2
Starline Virgin, length 1.5905, Dry 119.6/Wet 150.5 = 30.9
#1 Starline 1 x, length 1.5905, Dry 118.9/Wet 150.8 = 31.9
#2 Starline 1 x, length 1.590, Dry 119.1/Wet 150.9 = 31.8

Converted 24 Nosler brass = 32.7 uses 223 bolt.

Is that with the 85.5 seated or just to bottom of neck?

 

[357Max]

Is that with the 85.5 seated or just to bottom of neck?

Filled level to top with water.
Not sure what software your using, but this is what Gordon's uses for case capacity.

Edit: Seating depth should be a required input that it uses to adjust usable capacity. It is in Gordon's anyway.

 

[6.5SH]

Filled level to top with water.
Not sure what software your using, but this is what Gordon's uses for case capacity.

Edit: Seating depth should be a required input that it uses to adjust usable capacity. It is in Gordon's anyway.

P-Max internal ballistics

It wants usable powder space with the bullet seated. Doesn't have the number of inputs GRT or QL has.

 

[Lowlight]

The 29 number was super close to my actually results

 

[Diverhunter]

View attachment 7981170

I found my number, the groups were good too, probably not gonna have to tune it with a tuner, it strung a tick vertical on me both at 100 and 600 but it was a solid load

View attachment 7981172

Call it like 4" of vertical, I think I can tune that out, but might not have too, it was pretty good, but I have options

I think I am running to press with this load, 27.5gr of CFE223, 1.795" to Ogive, Berger 85.5gr

According to the software with this load, and it played out at 600,

65 degrees, 4500ASL, 6000DA

6.9 Mils to 1000 yards

2.8 Mils to 600 yards

At 1000 yards it's a 4MPH Gun and at 600 Yards it's a 7MPH gun as the light bullet falls off

I agree with the CFE results. What I didn't like was the shifts in temps. That is why I worked up loads with temp stable powder. I didn't want to have a hot weather load and cold weather load.

 

[6.5SH]

I agree with the CFE results. What I didn't like was the shifts in temps. That is why I worked up loads with temp stable powder. I didn't want to have a hot weather load and cold weather load.

Small lunch sized cooler with a separate blue-ice compartment is where I ended up with temp sensitive powders. I do the opposite with rimfire and use a hand warmer.
Hopefully someday everything is like the Extreme series or Sta-Ball with temperature.

 

[Lowlight]

I need to make a new thread, but the load is rocking

2.6 Mils to 600

6.8 Mils to 1000

8.0 to 1125
Nice accuracy and good speed, she is a shooter

 

[TNSleeper99]

I need to make a new thread, but the load is rocking

2.6 Mils to 600

6.8 Mils to 1000

8.0 to 1125
Nice accuracy and good speed, she is a shooter

Glad you’re making some waves for the Valkyrie. I hope the round isn’t dead and we can still get decent brass in the future. I’m going to do my best to show up with the 85.5’s at K&M for a one day match in December and see how I stack up. It’s a lot easier in wallet and barrels then my 6CM.

 

[Lowlight]

This thing is real now, impacts are visible even at extended distances

I really think the happy spot for the .22 heavies is over 2850, really over 2900, they hobbled it at 2750.

I get it they were playing for the gas gun crowd but it’s a viable bolt gun option really and it’s not a crazy load. What like 4 grains over the gas gun speeds.

I got a nice fat bag of STARLINE brass locally including 600 primed ready to roll. I need more pills but that is easy, but man it’s fun playing around with something written off. Especially something so cheap to operate.

I wish Federal would do Valkyrie 2.0 with the Berger’s at 2950 on the box using the 85.5 or even the 80.5 at 3100 they’d be winners for the bolt gun guys and I may try my load in my JP cause the 75s are awesome in it, they just fall apart around 600.

 

[Lowlight]

Here is 10 shots at 1125 yards

They were visible behind the rifle and moved the plate.

My 600 yard group I have a bit of vertical but I think (know) my scale was an issue. It was sticking a bit and this afternoon a real replacement arrived. Gonna see (hope) if that fixes the vertical cause the rest is spot on.

I have solid numbers right around 3025fps and the published BC for the Berger’s was good trying my software to 1125.

 

[_Windrider_]

View attachment 7984863
Here is 10 shots at 1125 yards

They were visible behind the rifle and moved the plate.

View attachment 7984864

My 600 yard group I have a bit of vertical but I think (know) my scale was an issue. It was sticking a bit and this afternoon a real replacement arrived. Gonna see (hope) if that fixes the vertical cause the rest is spot on.

I have solid numbers right around 3025fps and the published BC for the Berger’s was good trying my software to 1125.

View attachment 7984865

But can u hit the 300 yd target?

 

[mahlv]

What's your barrel length? Mine is a 20", I bought some cfe223 and a box of 85.5 from scheels and will be toying with this asap

 

[Jackomason]

@lowlight, I know federal won't revisit this but maybe you could talk hornady into making a 22 PRC Aka. Valkyrie 2.0 for a bolt gun. They seem to have a balanced approach to the PRC line.