Expected and realistic 22 magnum accuracy

#51
I have never liked .22 LR, blasphemy, I know. I prefer to shoot .22 WMR instead. I had a Ruger Single-Six with the changeable cylinders where I just used the one cylinder. When my oldest son was 13, I loaded it with blanks and teased him about he couldn't hit the side of a barn. :ROFLMAO: So, later when he was much older and I was offering him things from my house as I was cutting back on things, he asked me for the Ruger, so he has it now.
At one time I went looking for a .22 WMR semi-auto rifle, but discovered that Ruger had discontinued them a few years earlier. When my son on leave from the Army came to visit, I took him to Cabelas to check it out. I discovered a Remington 597 .22 WMR semi-auto with a synthetic all weather stock in very good condition. After purchasing it, I found it had probs with FTF/FTE, but thought them to be mainly with the magazines which Remmy had made 3 diff versions. I still had probs, but after mentioning it in the forum, it was suggested, I should get a new Volquartsen Extractor. I did, installed it and have not had any probs since. I am not a hunter, not even much of a target shooter, but just like to go out plinkin' in the Nevada desert. Yes, I know that WMR is more expensive then the LR, but the experience is more than worth it!
Finally, it has been suggested to me that the PMR 30 might be an interesting pistol to look at.
Hope I didn't get too far off topic, just wanted to relate my experiences with .22 WMR.
Good shootin' to y'all! :cool:

UPDATE: 4/13/2020 I just read that Remington made a 4th generation magazine coated in black. I will have to see if I can find any.
 
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#56
nakoa01 said:
Ravage I am curious as to what ammo you guys recommend for your best accuracy? I know every rimfire is different but what are you guys seeing as the most consistent in your tests?
Click to expand...

For 22WMR? Generally, the tipped bullets are showing more improvement (with Hornady, Remington and CCI labels) but surprisingly, the Hornady Critical Defense was quite impressive (although it feeds a bit hitchy). Bear in mind though, this is not with the typical 16 twist barrel that everyone uses....

MB
 
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#57
RAVAGE88 said:
For 22WMR? Generally, the tipped bullets are showing more improvement (with Hornady, Remington and CCI labels) but surprisingly, the Hornady Critical Defense was quite impressive (although it feeds a bit hitchy). Bear in mind though, this is not with the typical 16 twist barrel that everyone uses....

MB
Click to expand...

Are we talking the single twist rate you alluded to in the Vudoo thread for wmr calibers or just for the Criticla Defense?
 
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#59
ya' know....jbell has been running the 'hides rimfire 6x5 for a few years now,
and looking at the results, there have only been a few of us willing to post targets
using the 17 hmr, 17 wsm and 22wmr. Makes me wonder why that is?
Could it be an indicator of less than stellar ammo quality?

could.jpg


Just thinking...;)
 
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#62
I do recall it having a very expensive and complex scope mount which I sold separately. Also magazines were expensive and hard to find in the pre internet era. No idea now.
 
#63
My first firearm at age 12 was a Anschutz 141M, that was 48 years ago.
Had, I don't know, four 22 mags throughout the years and it's a fun cartridge with lots of fond memories for me.
Now I have a Hk300 and love the thing.
Ehh 22mag is what it is which isn't a target round.

What ails all rimfire is the vertical goes to pot at long range, see Justin's tests.

See, what we all wish for is actually not a rimfire at all, but a tiny centerfire cartridge instead! And one without a 22H rim - hint.
We need that "just right" case design based on the proper burn rate of powder, just the right length of case, a 30 degree shoulder, strong brass, small flash hole, etc, to make such a case the most efficient it can be. All to fit the appropriate sized bolt action repeater. IN 20 CALIBER of course, because BC and thwack.

Yes match grade factory ammo needs to be done, and inexpensive plinking ammo too.

Reloading such a cartridge and speculating - 2800 fps with a 32gr/.210BC, ES of sub 10fps, .2moa capable to 400Y, is possible! I'm almost there with my "highly overbore" 20-221AI, but I'm using a reduced load of 2330 fps so I don't damage my rimfire steel. Normal load is 32's at 3735 fps BTW. I enjoy shooting my CZ527 custom rifle a lot with this reduced load! Actually I prefer the experience of shooting that reduced load more than my rimfires or my larger centerfires because it provides challenge in the wind, recoils like a 17hmr, is low noise, barrel doesn't heat up so fast, and totally destroys my buds 17hmr and 17wsm at longer distances because it does .4" at 100Y often and SD is 8 fps.

20-TCM ??? That'd be a fun place to start. 30 carbine cut short and necked to 20 cal ??, it's got about the best case head diameter.

Sure would be cool!
 
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#79
Dippy said:
22 mag always been a goto killer around these parts. Never had any accuracy issues.
Click to expand...


For center of critter it's ideal.
For stomping varmints around the chicken coop it's my choice.
Punches through the ribs of those heavier predators.
Raccoons, foxes, bobcats, ferals making a late night visit for a snack.

It's just not a sub moa target round and was never intended to be one.
Still, those keyboard shootists keep claiming "all day long" sub inch at 100 yards.

I3og6kCh.jpg
 
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#80
Sixgunjeff said:
How about Cooper's 22 CCM?
Click to expand...

I reload 5.7x28 and I'll tell you right now that even it being wider than 22CCM it's a pain to load for. Very little meat between the edges of the primer pocket and the rim which causes the case to deform through the hole in the shellholder when FL sizing. That's why RCBS made the extended shell holder without a hole in it. This adds an extra step in the process because the cases need to be deprimed separately.

I really do think 30 carbine cases head size would be perfect. There's a balance in convenience of loading the round and if the case is too small or too thin it's going to be a hassle to load for.

I've reloaded 17's since I was in my early twenties. I sold my 4th 17R two years ago to a friend. I don't hate the 17's and never will. Had a 17K Hornet that was a fun little round but at the time it was experimental so I sold it.
I find 20 cal easier, and it doesn't foul as quick, and hits it harder, and with the same or a higher BC. If looking at 22 cal compared to 20 cal, the little 20 cal 32gr has the same BC as a 50gr 22 cal, and the 20 cal 40gr has the same BC as 62gr 22 cal. It makes a lot of sense going 20 cal in a tiny case because of this. And it's easier to hold bullets when putting them in the case to seat them vs 17 cal.

I'm using 6.5 grains of 800x in my 20-221AI to get that 32 grainer going 2330 fps in a 21" 11 twist barrel and the case is not quite halfway full. So a small centerfire case only needs to hold 8-10 grains of powder to get 2800 fps or so with a 32 gr bullet. I'm using a 380 case cut short to use as a powder dipper to give everyone an idea how small the volume is on that 6.5gr grains of powder.
 
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#82
rth1800 said:
^^^^^^^
All above is good info.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and I also appreciate you suggesting 800X for my reduced loads.

I found the same thing with 17hmr. Had critters fly and wander off after about 150Y. So I sold it too. It's not easy seeing hits on steel or where one misses with a 17gr bullet either. Do love the extremely low recoil though.

17wsm is almost there except I'm not buying one since I've shot my friends and wasn't impressed enough with it.

But one can go down to the store and buy factory ammo for any rimfire. We all like that.
 
#83
forums.gunhive.com

Ruger 77/17 in .17WSM

I've really enjoyed the 17WSM cartridge. It's an incredibly fun varmint round that everyone should definitely have, but having said that, there are precious few options available in rifles. The volquartsen and Franklin armory semi-auto's, the savage B-ma...
forums.gunhive.com forums.gunhive.com

17WSM has no problem anchoring prairie dogs out to 300yds. Hits with authority to 200yds, as the 175 ft/lbs delivered at that distance is plenty for anything you'd choose a 17WSM for in the first place. Considering I've killed a lot of things with a 22lr at 100yds, and it's only delivering 75 ft/lbs there... I'm pretty sure the energy the 17WSM is bringing to the game is just fine. I killed about 4,000 pdogs in the last 2 years with 17WSM. Lots of skunks, badgers, and coons too. Very capable cartridge.

If my stock ruger can average 3/4 - 1 MOA... I'm pretty sure a Zermatt RimX with a lilja barrel will be able to beat that with ease. My custom Rem40X 17HMR was able to easily out shoot any other 17HMR I've owned. I don't expect this will be any different.
 
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#84
What he said. Ive had lots of 22 wmr, 17hmr, and now a 17 wsm. 17 wsm kills much much better on varmints and 15-20 lbs rodents than either of the other 2. Became so frustrated with 17 hmr that i got rid of all guns chambered in that caliber and went back to 22 WMR until 17 WSM went prime time.
 
#85
The only experience I have is with my Browning T Bolt .22 magnum. It shoots very consistently with 30 grain and 40 grain bullets . At 25 yards it’s one hole
At 50 yards it’s a clover leaf group
At 100 yards it shoots an inch or a little less when I do my part . I just put a new scope on it and dialed it in again . I used Armscor nickle plated 40 g jhp, my group was an inch . It’s my favorite caliber along with my .22 Hornet .
 
#86
Sasquatch-148 said:
The only experience I have is with my Browning T Bolt .22 magnum. It shoots very consistently with 30 grain and 40 grain bullets . At 25 yards it’s one hole
At 50 yards it’s a clover leaf group
At 100 yards it shoots an inch or a little less when I do my part . I just put a new scope on it and dialed it in again . I used Armscor nickle plated 40 g jhp, my group was an inch . It’s my favorite caliber along with my .22 Hornet .
Click to expand...
Sounds like a keeper. :)
 
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#87
justin amateur said:
I've already pissed off the 22wmr fanboyz at RFC, might as well do the same here. :D

No company manufactures match quality 22wmr, none. Fact.
There are no match chambers for 22wmr. Why? Too wide a spread in production tolerances by the manufacturers.
Chambers have to be cut to fit existing production of 22wmr cartridges, otherwise too many fail to chambers.
Every time someone claims all day long accuracy with a 22wmr, I offer the same reply...show me.
They offer one or two five shot groups as proof.
That's called cherry picking, not "all day long".

What makes me any kind of an authority on the 22wmr?
I've actually tested every brand of cartridge made, across a chronograph,
from multiple platforms,
at 50, 100 and 200 yards with Lilja, Feddersen and CZ barrels.

The problem is not the rifles, but the lack of quality ammunition.

At 50 yards, expect 3/4 inch to 1-1/2 inch spread.
At 100 yards, 1-1/4 to 4.5 inch spread.
At 200 yards, 7 to 20 inch spread.
All due to the fact that it's hunting ammo,
not precision paper punching ammo.
Intended for center of critter out to about 75 yards.
Click to expand...
I’ve never heard of any 22 magnum shooting that poorly. My bolt shoots 1” at 100 all day long . With most ammo
 
#88
rookie7 said:
What is realistic accuracy out of a factory 22 mag rifle at 50 and 100 yards?

I’ve had a few tell me they get 1 hole groups at 50 and less than an inch at 100, but I feel those are the exception and not the rule.

I have a 22 mag now - first 22 mag rifle ever and am trying to establish a baseline of what is realistic.

thank you
Click to expand...
 

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#90
All day long? :D

Wize adze.

You just wanted me to add my usual snarky comments, didn't ya' 'squatch? ;)

Okay....

Hey! Nice wallet groups, how did it go with the other 37 shots?

I see some strays on the adjoining bulls that aren't quite so "all day long".

There's two of y'er bullseye's, what happened to the rest of the target?

I know, I'm a wize adze too. :)


Ooops, thought of one more....

Sure would be great if all these sub moa "all day long" 17 hmr, 17 wsm and 22 wmr rifles
would be so kind as to show the rest of us poor, deprived souls
a few examples of their precision shooting in jbells rimfire 6x5.
Wouldn't that be something? ;)
 
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#91
rookie7 said:
What is realistic accuracy out of a factory 22 mag rifle at 50 and 100 yards?

I’ve had a few tell me they get 1 hole groups at 50 and less than an inch at 100, but I feel those are the exception and not the rule.

I have a 22 mag now - first 22 mag rifle ever and am trying to establish a baseline of what is realistic.

thank you
Click to expand...
That's an excellent question. I am sure the answers you get are like the ones I got when I asked the same question about 10 years ago. I asked that question because I was thinking about spending big money on a Volquartsen 22 Win Mag and a bolt-action CZ 22 mag -- both new in box.

Boy, either folks don't know how to measure groups, or the two rifles are poor examples of better quality rimfire rifles.
In the end, you can get a decent 3-4 shot group rather consistently - around 3/8 inch at 50 and around a 1-1 1/4 inch at 100 yards...if you can find the right ammo diet for your rifle. But you can't get great five-shot groups consistently. It's not the rifles or the shooters. It's the ammo; it's simply not capable of holding tight groups consistently.

I bit the bullet and bought the Volquartsen and the CZ with the set trigger. I have shot thousands of 22 mag rounds out of the Volquartsen. I use it for shooting gophers in Montana from 15 yards to 150 yds. The real benefits are the fast follow up shots and a hard hit on the critter - not accuracy.

And the ammo is filthy. I typically shoot 1,000 rounds or more over two days, and with a suppressor. The gun is nether less or more accurate with the suppressor.

If you want a truly accurate rimfire round for both 50 and 100 yards -- always capable of five shot groups under 1/2 inch at 50 yds and under an inch at 100 yds, then the 17 HMR is your huckleberry. If it's blustering windy, then you will need to become a better shot to hold those group sizes; but so is the case with most rimfires.

After seeing it in action, I would gladly swap my Volquartsen 22 Win Mag for a 17 WSM. The 17 WSM may be the all time best for extended range rimfire on varmints. The 17 HMR dominates on grouping. The 22 Win Mag just isn't the choice around use or great accuracy.

My buddy has a similar Volquartsen in 22 mag, with a McMillan stock. His is more accurate, but not by much, and maybe...maybe with more consistency.
We use Zeiss and Nightforce scopes for hours on end.

I wouldn't buy a 22 Win Mag again, only because it isn't accurate enough all of the time, especially when you can opt for a 22 lr or a 17 HMR for either less expensive ammo costs or the same ammo cost.

I like my 22 Win Mags, but wouldn't buy them again. The ammo quality, for accuracy, isn't available. If others have a 22 Win Mag that can keep five shots in the same hole at 100 yds - consistently, then that is a collector's item, and I suggest you buy ALL of the ammo with that lot number that you can afford, and then take out a loan and buy a little more.

I have never seen a guy shoot a 22 Win Mag with great accuracy; and I have watched a few try to prove it to me. In the end, they discount the fliers in the group. That's not fair. Go figure!

Thanks for asking that question! It is a good one.

If anyone states they get one hole groups at 50 yards and 100 yards, and if they are looking you in the eye, rest assured their groups consist of one-shot groups!)
 
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#93
My only experience with the 22wmr is my old Marlin 25MN. It shoots the Win 40g jhp pretty well (15 year old stock) and CCi 40g Maxi mag. They hold a 1.5"ish groups at 100y pretty well, mind you that is for three shot groups. It is intended as a hunting gun/cartridge. It works real well at it's intended purpose, letting the air out of woodchucks, raccoons, foxes, and the like up to 125y. Don't try to make it into something it was never intended to be, and you will not be disappointed.

Mike
Win40grSuperX.jpg
 
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#94
rth1800 said:
The .22 mag. is a wonderful cartridge in its place. It is not a target round. Was never intended to be. In a good rifle with proper ammunition it is an excellent game killer to 100 yards and fair killer to 150 yards.

It is an excellent handgun cartridge. About the fastest killer of small to medium game and vermin in a handgun I have tried.

Possibly the best “survive in the woods” cartridge in existence.

The mistake folks make is trying to make it something it’s not.
Click to expand...
This post says it very accurately I couldn’t agree more with the best survive in the woods cartridge. 22 mag may be the best can do cartridge ever. I personally have killed rabbits and squirrels up to deer, hogs gators and is my favorite caliber for hunting predators over bait piles. I have a ruger mk77/22 and it’s a very accurate rifle. I tried every brand of ammo I could find but settled on the Winchester 40gr for accuracy and hunting. I did start using a cz in 17 hornet for predator hunting during the day and it may also be one of the most amazing cartridges ever. I now have the 22 mag with a night vision and use it for hunting predators over bait piles at night out to 100 yds it’s awesome.
 
#96
rookie7 said:
@RAVAGE88 thank you for the reply!
Click to expand...
I've found the 22 wrm very inconsistant - with that said I have a Marlin in 22 mag that hits hard but is only an 1.5 inch gun at 50 yards and I've tested it with many types of ammo, Even sent gun back and had new bbl installed but no real improvement. Good 50 yard gun but don't trust it much past that.
 
#97
justin amateur said:
I've already pissed off the 22wmr fanboyz at RFC, might as well do the same here. :D

No company manufactures match quality 22wmr, none. Fact.
There are no match chambers for 22wmr. Why? Too wide a spread in production tolerances by the manufacturers.
Chambers have to be cut to fit existing production of 22wmr cartridges, otherwise too many fail to chambers.
Every time someone claims all day long accuracy with a 22wmr, I offer the same reply...show me.
They offer one or two five shot groups as proof.
That's called cherry picking, not "all day long".

What makes me any kind of an authority on the 22wmr?
I've actually tested every brand of cartridge made, across a chronograph,
from multiple platforms,
at 50, 100 and 200 yards with Lilja, Feddersen and CZ barrels.

The problem is not the rifles, but the lack of quality ammunition.

At 50 yards, expect 3/4 inch to 1-1/2 inch spread.
At 100 yards, 1-1/4 to 4.5 inch spread.
At 200 yards, 7 to 20 inch spread.
All due to the fact that it's hunting ammo,
not precision paper punching ammo.
Intended for center of critter out to about 75 yards.
Click to expand...
Ive been hunting with and shooting a 22 mag since 1975 with 1st a Winchester Lever 9422M and and an Anschutz Mannlicher 22 Mag with Double Set Trigger and a Henry Lever 22 Mag H004M and I've never had groups as sorry at 100 yards as you stated except with my Remington 597 Semi Auto. However I do agree with you on the INCONSISTENT and sometimes just plain Sorry Ammo.And since we can reload it..Or atleast I cant reload or make it we have to do with what we have.
With that said the most consistent ammo Ive used has been CCI and the Sorriest by far has been Winchester...And that Sorry No count Ammo is still Winchester..On a side not this week I shoot at 100 yards with my 6.5 Creedmoor I shot 5 in the same hole almost with one barely notching the hole at One O'Clock using my hand loads .And swapped over to Winchester ammo 125 grain in my AR10 and back to my Remington 700 PCR and the spread was as far off a 5 to 8 inches with only one in the center BullsEye... I with not buy another box of Winchester.So out of curiosity I broke out the AR15 in 223 & 5.56 Winchester ammo and it was almost as sorry. Thanks Guys..Good Forms.Sorry if it was too long.Just had it to say.Many thanx
 
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#98
I hear ya' Trey.
The problem isn't with the rifles.
Most are capable of decent results at 50 to 100 yards.
The problem is poorly made 22wmr ammunition.
Current production by all the manufacturers seem to have given up on quality
and are simply going for quantity to satisfy corporate demands.
When you can see canted bullets, irregular seating depths, visibly damaged cartridges
from a freshly opened box, you really can't expect consistent tractories. :(


Find the brand y'er rifle likes doesn't work either.
Federal does not manufacture 22wmr cartridges.
Neither does Remington, Hornady, Norma, FiocchiUSA or Speer.
All of them are relabeled CCI production.
The manufacturer's date code stamped on their boxes are CCI.
Results are dependent on the production tolerances on that day at the CCI plant.
 
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#100
22 mag made me very agitated around 2008. I had a cheap Savage with a pencil barrel. I bought some random boxes of ammo and found that Winchester supreme seemed to shoot .6-.75” at 100 pretty consistently. Some fliers here and there but most groups stayed under an inch. I bought a case of that ammo and it was actually the same lot. I really had a great time with that rifle.

Then I ran out and bought more. It was a different lot. It sucked. 2 inch groups or worse and -crazy- fliers that were several inches away from the target. Tried a ton of different random ammo in it since then and have found nothing even close to that first case.

Rifle pretty much just sits in the safe now. Justin is spot on with the ammo inconsistency data.
 
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