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Food riots thread…and energy.

Fair enough... And on your last sentence we are in complete agreement.

And 'other people's problems' rapidly become 'everyone's problems' when suddenly the 'other people' covet what you have in your own little slice of heaven. And by 'everyone's problems' I mean our own very, very personal problems if the unwashed masses decide they want your stuff.

Anyhoo... hopefully won't come to that. I guess the odds are in direct proportion to one's distance from urban centers. Those 10 miles outside 'Watts and Harlem' are going to be in a lot more jeopardy than those 200 miles away. Most shitbags aren't going to live long enough to get 200 miles. The ones that do, however, will probably be tough targets.

Just 'sayin.

Sirhr
Contingency plans are in place for that as well.

And yes……we have been busy. 👍
 
Went to Walmart for a few things tonight, $349 + $40 for 1/2 tank of gas. Didn't buy any meat, hardly any milk, which I don't drink, but no almond milk either. Times are changing fast...
 

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Which is why tyrannical systems fail.

But often not without hundreds of millions dead.

Well, we are due!

Postmodernism says we are all headed for utopian bliss with no need for social structures or responsibility. 8k-ish years of recorded history says that postmodernism is idiotic. Sooner or later comes a strongman with delusions of grandeur or psychopathy… and everyone dies.

Liberalism remains an mental disorder. At its heart, an excess of empathy that prevents the sufferer from rational thought, even if it kills them.

Sirhr
 
This is like those rich MF's who own huge ranches in Montana, and expect that in a major crisis they will be able to go from Hollywood to their ranch and just move right in, thinking that their Ranch Manager who has all that food stocked and his own family on the land and his own small army, and all his local contacts, is going to let him/her in there. Not to mention, they aren't going to be able to even leave said stricken area.
Anybody inside your perimeter, not already fully vetted is a liability.

Probably true in most cases. But if I had that kind of money I’d probably be retired and running the place myself.
 
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Doing some mental Math here…

California eliminates gas cars in 13 years. Auto companies are already shutting down gas car production to shift to EV’s.

Where is the electricity to charge them going to come from?

Can the local power lines even handle every house on the block charging 2 electric cars at once? Who is building the power infrastructure just for ‘last mile?’

How about the power plants? Already strained and they keep shutting them down?

Where is all this magic power coming from?

Just wondering….

Sirhr

Short answer is no. We need to double electrical production!

We can build and install gas turbines in 2 to 4 years. Same for coal. Nukes take a decade right now. All that shit has to come from a supply chain already stressed. And needs gas or coal or uranium that has also be found and extracted and processed. And then the grid has to be upgraded. And we need engineers and trades and capital.

If they said we will max out gas and coal for next 20 years and then build lots of nukes while redoing the grid, the. It would be believable.
 
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Short answer is no. We need to double electrical production!

We can build and install gas turbines in 2 to 4 years. Same for coal. Nukes take a decade right now. All that shit has to come from a supply chain already stressed. And needs gas or coal or uranium that has also be found and extracted and processed. And then the grid has to be upgraded. And we need engineers and trades and capital.

If they said we will max out gas and coal for next 20 years and then build lots of nukes while redoing the grid, the. It would be believable.
I agree "And we need engineers and trades and capital."............ America will never have that as long as it keeps wasting billions of $$$ in foreign countries.
 
I am no fan of Putin or Russia, but....

The WEF plans to enslave the world.
It’s looking like the rest of the planet is going to owe Russia a big thanks for being the ones to essentially push back against the WEF destruction of the population to attempt to bring about some “One World Government”.

Russia refused to go along with their plans - they will govern their own country thank you very much - and their handling of this energy problem will get people to finally wake up and see that this “green” bullshit was to be fueled with unicorns and rainbows, because wind and solar may be “helpers” but cannot and will not ever sustain us or our energy needs.

It will be quite the wake up call for the world if Russia ends up bailing them all out of their WEF-created food shortage also. Russia sees the WEF plan of crippling the global food production - including that of the Ukraine, and is trying to make sure it remains a food source as it’s been traditionally. The only way to accomplish that is to keep it out of the west’s (WEF’s) hands.

Tell me why I am wrong?

Russia is incompetent. Do you think the folks there who run their oil and gas system and exploration are better than the generals running the defense system?

The West pulled out of the Russian oil patch. Production will plummet. The few men in Russia who are pointing out the issues keep getting tossed from windows.

It has always been the east minus West equals zero.
 
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A lot of what you listed I would consider “ other peoples problems”.

I have no association, have a well and my own septic and we are remote work.

Though I’ll fess up and admit. We don’t own an electric vehicle. No plans on buying one either.

Solar panel output is increasing though I could not tell you the pace.


I’ll also add that this will not end well for the majority of people out there.

First rule of adulthood is don’t let other people problems become your problems.
 
I can answer your question about power plants.... This is what I did before retiring... Photo is a 600MW plant... Takes about 6 years to "Turn Key" one from the time the land is acquired and permits approved. Breaking ground until time it hooks to the grid is about 3 - 4 years, depending on material. It would take 7 power plants like this one to charge all the Tesla's I can answer your question about power plants.... This is what I did before retiring... Photo is a 600MW plant... Takes about 6 years to "Turn Key" one from the time the land is acquired and permits approved. Breaking ground until time it hooks to the grid is about 3 - 4 years, depending on material. It would take 7 power plants like this one to charge all the Tesla's built in one year.
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Thanks. Well said. Don’t forget about line losses and heat lost in charging and down time of the plant for maintenance.. It’s probably 10.

Right now lead time on most heavy electrical systems is a year or more.
 
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Russia is incompetent. Do you think the folks there who run their oil and gas system and exploration are better than the generals running the defense system?

The West pulled out of the Russian oil patch. Production will plummet. The few men in Russia who are pointing out the issues keep getting tossed from windows.

It has always been the east minus West equals zero.
I don’t doubt that.
But Russia not going along with the WEF bullshit and the resulting changes to the balance of energy production has sure brought the reality of the plans to the front of consciousness.
 
I don’t doubt that.
But Russia not going along with the WEF bullshit and the resulting changes to the balance of energy production has sure brought the reality of the plans to the front of consciousness.
That is true. Russia only has natural resources and they bring in hard cash. And their buyers build and do stuff. Until I see factories being built to make nukes I can only conclude that this is about control not making the world better.
 
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Not quite the right place for this but I do not deem it worthy of its own thread.

The book “ American Exit Strategy “ might be a worthy read or listen for some.

It covers a possible scenario of an economic collapse. Fiction

It’s an OK book so far.
 
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Short answer is no. We need to double electrical production!

We can build and install gas turbines in 2 to 4 years. Same for coal. Nukes take a decade right now. All that shit has to come from a supply chain already stressed. And needs gas or coal or uranium that has also be found and extracted and processed. And then the grid has to be upgraded. And we need engineers and trades and capital.

If they said we will max out gas and coal for next 20 years and then build lots of nukes while redoing the grid, the. It would be believable.
Nuclear is the way it is, because of Democratic *EPA* regulations. The Nuke people have a great design and can build one in 2 years or less if the liberals would get out of the way. Hell, China is taking our Nuke plans, building over 20 plants. The stuff that we can do, if the commies would get out of our way. link
A draft of the 14th Five-Year Plan (2021-2025) released in March 2021 showed government plans to reach 70 GWe gross of nuclear capacity by the end of 2025​
From 2010 it expected to commission three units per year and, from 2015, four units per year.​
 
Nuclear is the way it is, because of Democratic *EPA* regulations. The Nuke people have a great design and can build one in 2 years or less if the liberals would get out of the way. Hell, China is taking our Nuke plans, building over 20 plants. The stuff that we can do, if the commies would get out of our way. link
A draft of the 14th Five-Year Plan (2021-2025) released in March 2021 showed government plans to reach 70 GWe gross of nuclear capacity by the end of 2025​
From 2010 it expected to commission three units per year and, from 2015, four units per year.​
 
Short answer is no. We need to double electrical production!

We can build and install gas turbines in 2 to 4 years. Same for coal. Nukes take a decade right now. All that shit has to come from a supply chain already stressed. And needs gas or coal or uranium that has also be found and extracted and processed. And then the grid has to be upgraded. And we need engineers and trades and capital.

If they said we will max out gas and coal for next 20 years and then build lots of nukes while redoing the grid, the. It would be believable.

France announced Friday they are restarting all their shut down nuclear reactors. I'd feel a little better about the big EV push if I saw that there was equivalent moves in infrastructure investment in improving power generation, and distribution....and I don't mean solar/wind. If they're concerned about carbon, there's really only one option for power generation that doesn't release carbon, that has the ability to run at night, and when the wind doesn't blow....nuclear. SMR's seem to be the new hotness now, but i'm no expert, surely there's one on here that can enlighten us further assuming he can do so without violating any confidentiality agreements, and/or non-disclosures.

Branden
 
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Nuclear is the way it is, because of Democratic *EPA* regulations. The Nuke people have a great design and can build one in 2 years or less if the liberals would get out of the way. Hell, China is taking our Nuke plans, building over 20 plants. The stuff that we can do, if the commies would get out of our way. link
A draft of the 14th Five-Year Plan (2021-2025) released in March 2021 showed government plans to reach 70 GWe gross of nuclear capacity by the end of 2025​
From 2010 it expected to commission three units per year and, from 2015, four units per year.​
The gates foundation spent a lot of money on a new nuclear power plant design and china is doing the proof of concept reactor for it. Why are they doing it in China you ask? Because china doesn't have an EPA, and they don't have environmentalist hippies fucking it up for us all. It was originally set to be built in 2016, but when Trump came in, he shut down the cooperation between the foundation and china when it came to Nuclear energy which put the project on hold. It's been restarted, and China has started to build. I am not 100% sure, but I think it's one of those molten salt reactors, but i'm not 100% sure on that anymore.

I think a reactor that's a massive pain in the ass to keep running is a much better idea than one that you're efforts are spent keeping it from going too crazy. I'm not a engineer though, nor did I stay in a holiday inn express last night.

Branden
 

France announced Friday they are restarting all their shut down nuclear reactors. I'd feel a little better about the big EV push if I saw that there was equivalent moves in infrastructure investment in improving power generation, and distribution....and I don't mean solar/wind. If they're concerned about carbon, there's really only one option for power generation that doesn't release carbon, that has the ability to run at night, and when the wind doesn't blow....nuclear. SMR's seem to be the new hotness now, but i'm no expert, surely there's one on here that can enlighten us further assuming he can do so without violating any confidentiality agreements, and/or non-disclosures.

Branden
Interesting that France is making that move.... Concerning that they are seeing this drag on for several years.... At best a mothballed nuke could get back on line in 2 years..... At worst it could take 5 years to get it back online..... Depending on parts... If I was bringing an old nuke back online I would have been ordering parts several months ago. Even too many parts, right now, could be like gold.

A natural gas fired turbine generator could be built in the time it takes to get a nuke up and going....

Parts will be an issue.... Lots of stainless steel, monel, inconel in power plants and the Chinese have shut down their stainless steel plants...

maxresdefault.jpg
 
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Iceland generates all their power through geo-thermal don't they?

Branden
Iceland is #7 by total generation power...
With about 30% National Energy Production, Iceland’s five main geothermal power plants produce electricity for about one-third of the country and provide 90% of the energy required for water and buildings. Iceland’s geothermal capacity is so vast that it in fact provides heat to city streets near geothermal fields all through the winter.

US is #3, but by percentage is pretty low. We should build a bunch of generators in the middle of yellowstone!

 
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US Navy powers aircraft carriers and subs for a long time with nuke power - wonder if that technology could be applied into a distributed power network vs a few ultra big nuke sites? Southern Company/GA Power has been working for years to get their new nuclear power plant started in GA.
 
Russia is incompetent. Do you think the folks there who run their oil and gas system and exploration are better than the generals running the defense system?

The West pulled out of the Russian oil patch. Production will plummet. The few men in Russia who are pointing out the issues keep getting tossed from windows.

It has always been the east minus West equals zero.

This is hilarious... East German Trabant factory!



BTW, the Trabants were made of some kind of plastic/polymer/bakelite/fiberglass that ended up being so toxic that they had to make a special plant to dismantle them after the wall came down. They were truly awful little two-stroke cars that were everything a socialist utopia could manage to fuck up!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
US Navy powers aircraft carriers and subs for a long time with nuke power - wonder if that technology could be applied into a distributed power network vs a few ultra big nuke sites? Southern Company/GA Power has been working for years to get their new nuclear power plant started in GA.
In my last life I went to school for nuke tech, I had pretty much decided, and was looking to get a job with Westinghouse building that expansion at Vogel. But a divorce sent me down another lowly path as a maintenance man...
But 100%, nuke is the real answer, I really don't understand the stigma, ignorance??
 
In my last life I went to school for nuke tech, I had pretty much decided, and was looking to get a job with Westinghouse building that expansion at Vogel. But a divorce sent me down another lowly path as a maintenance man...
But 100%, nuke is the real answer, I really don't understand the stigma, ignorance??
I worked in a nuclear plant for a while. People are scared because they fear anything they don’t understand. Our lives are all uncertain, but the TV that is our deity tells us we are safe if we worship it and do what it says.
 
In my last life I went to school for nuke tech, I had pretty much decided, and was looking to get a job with Westinghouse building that expansion at Vogel. But a divorce sent me down another lowly path as a maintenance man...
But 100%, nuke is the real answer, I really don't understand the stigma, ignorance??
Another reason to hate that bitch Jane Fonda.

Hippies and Jane Fonda killed the Nuclear industry that they should have embraced.

Sirhr
 
Short answer is no. We need to double electrical production!

We can build and install gas turbines in 2 to 4 years. Same for coal. Nukes take a decade right now. All that shit has to come from a supply chain already stressed. And needs gas or coal or uranium that has also be found and extracted and processed. And then the grid has to be upgraded. And we need engineers and trades and capital.

If they said we will max out gas and coal for next 20 years and then build lots of nukes while redoing the grid, the. It would be believable.
For a new FERC regulated pipeline to supply gas to a power plant is about 5 years (signed contract to gas flow), unless it is in the NE. In that case, it may be never. NY state has shut down new pipes after millions were spent on permits and materials.
From the supply side, for compression, Solar turbines are a minimum of 3 year delivery. Large frame eclectic motors (30K-45K HP) 3+ years. Auxiliary equipment like, VFD's, transformers, control panels, etc can be 2-4 years. Transformers were a huge issue for large motor installs. Just wait until you have to sit down with Sr Management and tell them a 40K HP motor got wet on the construction site and may be trashed and you may miss your in-service date (ie projected revenue!!!). Then try and get that massive pile of copper from VA to TX to have it inspected.
Pipe, anyone's guess. Depends on if you want US pipe, Turkish, Greek, German, or Korean. Size/wall thickness is also a factor, the larger the pipe, the number of mills drop off fast. Then you have the question of valves. Again, the larger the size, the longer the lead time and fewer manufactures. I have been away from this for 4 years now but availability has not gotten better, its worse, much worse.
After a major screwing from NYS, the decision was made by my old company that NO material would be ordered without ALL permits in hand. It was a major issue with the BD people and customers. But when you have over 140 miles of 36" pipe rusting on the ground due to lack of permits, well.......
 
For a new FERC regulated pipeline to supply gas to a power plant is about 5 years (signed contract to gas flow), unless it is in the NE. In that case, it may be never. NY state has shut down new pipes after millions were spent on permits and materials.
From the supply side, for compression, Solar turbines are a minimum of 3 year delivery. Large frame eclectic motors (30K-45K HP) 3+ years. Auxiliary equipment like, VFD's, transformers, control panels, etc can be 2-4 years. Transformers were a huge issue for large motor installs. Just wait until you have to sit down with Sr Management and tell them a 40K HP motor got wet on the construction site and may be trashed and you may miss your in-service date (ie projected revenue!!!). Then try and get that massive pile of copper from VA to TX to have it inspected.
Pipe, anyone's guess. Depends on if you want US pipe, Turkish, Greek, German, or Korean. Size/wall thickness is also a factor, the larger the pipe, the number of mills drop off fast. Then you have the question of valves. Again, the larger the size, the longer the lead time and fewer manufactures. I have been away from this for 4 years now but availability has not gotten better, its worse, much worse.
After a major screwing from NYS, the decision was made by my old company that NO material would be ordered without ALL permits in hand. It was a major issue with the BD people and customers. But when you have over 140 miles of 36" pipe rusting on the ground due to lack of permits, well.......
Sounds like the Chinese and Russians could turn key a pipeline / power plant faster than the US.
 
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For a new FERC regulated pipeline to supply gas to a power plant is about 5 years (signed contract to gas flow), unless it is in the NE. In that case, it may be never. NY state has shut down new pipes after millions were spent on permits and materials.
From the supply side, for compression, Solar turbines are a minimum of 3 year delivery. Large frame eclectic motors (30K-45K HP) 3+ years. Auxiliary equipment like, VFD's, transformers, control panels, etc can be 2-4 years. Transformers were a huge issue for large motor installs. Just wait until you have to sit down with Sr Management and tell them a 40K HP motor got wet on the construction site and may be trashed and you may miss your in-service date (ie projected revenue!!!). Then try and get that massive pile of copper from VA to TX to have it inspected.
Pipe, anyone's guess. Depends on if you want US pipe, Turkish, Greek, German, or Korean. Size/wall thickness is also a factor, the larger the pipe, the number of mills drop off fast. Then you have the question of valves. Again, the larger the size, the longer the lead time and fewer manufactures. I have been away from this for 4 years now but availability has not gotten better, its worse, much worse.
After a major screwing from NYS, the decision was made by my old company that NO material would be ordered without ALL permits in hand. It was a major issue with the BD people and customers. But when you have over 140 miles of 36" pipe rusting on the ground due to lack of permits, well.......
 
My new woodstove came on a freight truck yesterday. We relocated permanently to our retreat/farm a couple of years ago and I sure missed the wood burner in the old house. With energy prices poised to get higher than ever we knew the prudent thing to do was install one here even though this house isn’t our permanent dwelling. I have all the oak I could need here.

I was chatting with the truck driver, I had to meet him at a gas station a few miles away because a tractor trailer can’t get up to my place, and he actually was from the same area I was (small world). He was a black guy, a little older than me and it was awesome to talk to someone who understood my frustration with this area’s BBQ and sausage compared to eastern NC LOL.

The conversation turned serious when we talked about the stove and the reasons for its purchase. He became ashen discussing what was around the corner. He completely understood how a degree in economics isn’t required to see how heating your home was going to be expensive or even impossible if things stayed on the current course. He got the information on the stove I chose and said he had been looking too and had told his extended family that they had better get their acts together.

We left the parking lot with a handshake and “good luck brother”.

I see lots of “regular“ people in my travels doing my job. This isn’t isolated. People from all stripes KNOW something isn’t right and that we are on the cusp of a bad time. Just your anecdotal tale of the day.
 
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Iceland generates all their power through geo-thermal don't they?

Branden

Iceland sits on the largest and most active hotspot in the world and the one that made the island so they have geotherm capacity in spades. But its a small fishing and tourist nation. Not a major industrial power. Geotherm will not work.

In the US the only big hotspot we have is Yellowstone. And its not as good as Iceland.

Nukes built in factories are the only way to go.
 
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For a new FERC regulated pipeline to supply gas to a power plant is about 5 years (signed contract to gas flow), unless it is in the NE. In that case, it may be never. NY state has shut down new pipes after millions were spent on permits and materials.
From the supply side, for compression, Solar turbines are a minimum of 3 year delivery. Large frame eclectic motors (30K-45K HP) 3+ years. Auxiliary equipment like, VFD's, transformers, control panels, etc can be 2-4 years. Transformers were a huge issue for large motor installs. Just wait until you have to sit down with Sr Management and tell them a 40K HP motor got wet on the construction site and may be trashed and you may miss your in-service date (ie projected revenue!!!). Then try and get that massive pile of copper from VA to TX to have it inspected.
Pipe, anyone's guess. Depends on if you want US pipe, Turkish, Greek, German, or Korean. Size/wall thickness is also a factor, the larger the pipe, the number of mills drop off fast. Then you have the question of valves. Again, the larger the size, the longer the lead time and fewer manufactures. I have been away from this for 4 years now but availability has not gotten better, its worse, much worse.
After a major screwing from NYS, the decision was made by my old company that NO material would be ordered without ALL permits in hand. It was a major issue with the BD people and customers. But when you have over 140 miles of 36" pipe rusting on the ground due to lack of permits, well.......

Thanks!

The long lead times on major electrical components is 3 years. Same with 1MW gensets. The minor stuff is 7 months. Switches and other stuff is 4-8 months.
 
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