For the Love of God, GI Joe and John Wayne.... cleaning and abrasive cleaners

[MarinePMI]

@JBoomhauer - here junior. I did your homework for you. 2013 before bros had borescopes. Probably before you had your driver's license. I'm guessing your age based upon your online persona posting quality. Oh, and before I leave you alone I couldn't help but notice your "Gunnery Sergeant" SH achievement. I actually earned that rank in a chapter of my book of life. YUT!

Wipe Out "rust" problem

Although I have used Wipe Out and related products (Patch Out, etc.) and have generally had good results with it as a bore cleaner, I did get a batch with problems: Before deer season, I cleaned my usual deer rifles (Tikkas with stainless barrels) which had been in storage since the previous...

www.snipershide.com

I warned you about personal attacks. I'm done. Take a week off. The next time you post, and talk about being an adult in the room, act like an adult in the room.

 

[Baron23]

That's the key probably more than anything else. Coated or uncoated rod etc...

After each pass... take a rag and wipe it off like Rob posted above. I do the same thing and I've been beating it into my kids head as well. LOL!

I too do that, Frank. Not because I actually knew something…just OCD! Lol

More seriously, I use a paper towel as it shows me…along with the patch…what’s coming out of the barrel.

 

[lash]

I too do that, Frank. Not because I actually knew something…just OCD! Lol

More seriously, I use a paper towel as it shows me…along with the patch…what’s coming out of the barrel.

Me too, same process. Also not because of superior knowledge like Frank, but just a habit I adopted as a kid.

 

[vh20]

That's the key probably more than anything else. Coated or uncoated rod etc...

After each pass... take a rag and wipe it off like Rob posted above. I do the same thing and I've been beating it into my kids head as well. LOL!

That's gonna bend your rods.

 

[Frank Green]

That's gonna bend your rods.

Yea but I'll have fun doing it!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Modoc]

You know, Thread Drama aside, this has been a good thread And I’ve learned a couple of things! No Major changes to my cleaning process but some tools have/will change. I’m ditching the bronze brushes for nylon and now know how to properly use a Parker Hale/Dewey jag. CLP, Hoppes and Shooters choice have been the go to and will remain.

Thank You @Frank Green for sharing the knowledge.

 

[carbonbased]

@Frank Green I might just throw in the towel and clean exactly like you do.

The only thing stopping me is the stink. Do you have any recommendations for similar cleaning stuff that you use that doesn’t reek? Alternatives to Hoppe’s #9 and Sweets, basically, as Rem 40x doesn’t smell strongly.

Currently, I clean next to a finished basement, and I don’t want fumes in there or wafting upstairs.

I also have to buy a bore scope, but unfortunately I’d have to buy the über expensive variety as I have 17 & 20cals.

 

[DocRDS]

Far be it from me to comment on cleaning as when Frank talks, I listen (either one).

But I've seen banbois reaction before. Very similar to what we used to clean our metal deposition equipment (mostly the wafer holders/internals) back in school. Parts in a glass casserole dish, Dump in some HCl for 10 mins, then some HF for 10 more. Rinse with Acetone and Alcohol. Done 100+ times. Caught msyelf on fire when heatgun malfunctioned (story for another day).

Stop storing your Hydrochloric Acid in the Accelerator bottle. This is me calling BS on your "experiment" Stick a ph stick in there--you got acid because on this forum we obey the laws of physics (and chemistry).

I have no hide rank, i have no military rank, and I am a 9 year old gay manbun shooting 80 year old.

But I bet got $100 a new AXMC its HCl

 

[R_A_W]

So we should do fast wipe down of our rods before we stick 'em back in. Wait. We should clean our rods after each stroke... no, that's worse. You know what I mean. (I've actually always done this, even before I started using bore guides in the 2000's).

Cleaning gets beat to death on here, but it's hard to go back & read all the old threads. Despite how much has changed throughout the years... I keep relearning to keep it simple.

 

[MarkyMark007]

Any of the double base powders burn the barrel faster. Which if I'm not mistaken all of the 500 series VV powders are double based. That's why if at all possible I don't use double base powders. They burn at a higher flame temp normally. Yes you get more velocity out of them but that is the trade off. Shorter barrel life.

Maybe new N555 Vihtavuori powder is not double based, because it's energy content is only 3700 J / g: https://www.vihtavuori.com/powders/n500-powders/
other N500 series powders are near 4000 J / g.

double based and high energy are also all ball powders, all IMR enduron powders, Varget is rated by QuickLoad at 4050 J/g, H4895 rated at 4060 J/g, alliant powders also very energetic.

there are not a lot of powders, which are single based and with low energy...

 

[6.5SH]

Yea but I'll have fun doing it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Need one of these made with a Dewey rod:

 

[pmclaine]

Maybe new N555 Vihtavuori powder is not double based, because it's energy content is only 3700 J / g: https://www.vihtavuori.com/powders/n500-powders/
other N500 series powders are near 4000 J / g.

double based and high energy are also all ball powders, all IMR enduron powders, Varget is rated by QuickLoad at 4050 J/g, H4895 rated at 4060 J/g, alliant powders also very energetic.

there are not a lot of powders, which are single based and with low energy...

How many joules?

 

[Frank Green]

@Frank Green I might just throw in the towel and clean exactly like you do.

The only thing stopping me is the stink. Do you have any recommendations for similar cleaning stuff that you use that doesn’t reek? Alternatives to Hoppe’s #9 and Sweets, basically, as Rem 40x doesn’t smell strongly.

Currently, I clean next to a finished basement, and I don’t want fumes in there or wafting upstairs.

I also have to buy a bore scope, but unfortunately I’d have to buy the über expensive variety as I have 17 & 20cals.

Sorry but that's pretty much what I use. I get the smell thing!

Butch's Bore Shine to me is similar to Hoppe's it has a smell but is slightly different that might be o.k. to ya. Other than that no real suggestions bud.

 

[Rob01]

Maybe new N555 Vihtavuori powder is not double based, because it's energy content is only 3700 J / g: https://www.vihtavuori.com/powders/n500-powders/
other N500 series powders are near 4000 J / g.

double based and high energy are also all ball powders, all IMR enduron powders, Varget is rated by QuickLoad at 4050 J/g, H4895 rated at 4060 J/g, alliant powders also very energetic.

there are not a lot of powders, which are single based and with low energy...

Varget is a ball powder? Hmm news to me and my powder thrower. LOL

 

[Chris1972]

Sorry but that's pretty much what I use. I get the smell thing!

Butch's Bore Shine to me is similar to Hoppe's it has a smell but is slightly different that might be o.k. to ya. Other than that no real suggestions bud.

I use Butch’s and if he’s offended by #9 he’s not going to like Butch’s. It makes my head pound, but it does the job I ask of it.

Make the wife really happy, use the stove top or bathroom counter where there’s an exhaust fan available.

 

[Chris1972]

After reading this thread this morning I have to pull out the bore scope and see what I see. That thing is the devil.

 

[R_A_W]

Maybe new N555 Vihtavuori powder is not double based, because it's energy content is only 3700 J / g: https://www.vihtavuori.com/powders/n500-powders/
other N500 series powders are near 4000 J / g.

double based and high energy are also all ball powders, all IMR enduron powders, Varget is rated by QuickLoad at 4050 J/g, H4895 rated at 4060 J/g, alliant powders also very energetic.

there are not a lot of powders, which are single based and with low energy...

Varget is a ball powder? Hmm news to me and my powder thrower. LOL

Varget is also not a double base powder

 

[LeftyJason]

Well, it should be free. We should all be free.
I say we start a movement to free all carbons and stop the insanity...

 

[moosemeat]

I love the smell of #9. I'm going back to it. Now Sweets 7.62 gets done out side with a fan blowing and may be killing my trees.....

 

[CaptNemo]

Need one of these made with a Dewey rod:

I have my mother's vinyl copy of "Let's Get Small".
I don't have a way to play it, but I have the album...
Yes, I'm old enough to have seen him on SNL with Dan Aykroyd...

 

[lash]

Varget is a ball powder? Hmm news to me and my powder thrower. LOL

Varget is also not a double base powder

It’s just MM007, got into the good stuff again and blessed us with his visions/wisdom.

 

[MarkyMark007]

I see that I must clarify things for retarded american consumers:

...double based and high energy are also all ball powders, [COMMA]

all IMR enduron powders [ARE HIGH ENERGETIC], [COMMA]

Varget is rated by QuickLoad at 4050 J/g [IS HIGH ENERGETIC], [COMMA]

H4895 is rated at 4060 J/g [IS HIGH ENERGETIC], [COMMA]

alliant powders also very energetic.

 

[GBMaryland]

I’m not sure what you’re getting at? 6230J/g is straight nitroglycerine… adding nitrocellulose is where you get doublebase powders.

Adding plastic to either Is where get the more modern single based powders…

When I think highly energetic, I think VV N500 series powders…..

 

[4O6shootist]

double based and high energy are also all ball powders, all IMR enduron powders, Varget is rated by QuickLoad at 4050 J/g, H4895 rated at 4060 J/g, alliant powders also very energetic.

I have imr enduron 4166, 4451 4955 7977 8133, non are ball, all extruded stick. H4350 is 3910. All hogdgon extreme powders are single base, not double. I can agree that most Alliant powders are double based high energy, but none rl15 or above are ball in my experience.

 

[lash]

I have imr enduron 4166, 4451 4955 7977 8133, non are ball, all extruded stick. H4350 is 3910. All hogdgon extreme powders are single base, not double. I can agree that most Alliant powders are double based high energy, but none rl15 or above are ball in my experience.

He literally has no idea what he’s talking about, but figures if he blunders ahead with bluster and condescension, then nobody will notice. I think he needs to add more commas…

Those statements rank right up there with someone else’s comment that only Varget can cause carbon rings.

It amazes me that this thread has been able to go on for so long, considering it’s a cleaning thread, without degenerating into chaos. Thankfully Frank’s respectful posting manner is a calming influence.

 

[Rob01]

I, don’t? see! a ‘ problem ; with, Marky)s/ post!@&$

 

[pmclaine]

My guns are tools. I hope they are not fragile, delicate, flowers that must be babied.

When I shot regularly they would go into the safe with no cleaning because they would get dragged out again and shot within weeks. Cleaning was based on either round count or I had a bad range day and blamed it on fouling when it was probably me.

Shooting infrequently now they get cleaned each session.

Having seen rifles abused in the USMC to pass stupid turn in inspections (yet they still shot) my cleaning is minimal if not quick.

Patches only soaked in Hoppes allowed to sit and refreshed for a period measured in hours usually greater than 3.

On my premium barrels patches will exhibit light graying at the end but my soul feels the same as showering immediately after shitting ( the latter is a rule of nature and should be complied with as strictly as is practicable).

Who knows maybe I have a carbon ring that approximates a honey dipped donut in my barrel throat but somehow my guns shoot MOA or better. If I could do anything different it would be to repeat the process successively over three days but I be nervous about leaving guns on the bench when I am not home.

If the crazy shit makes you feel better have at it, you are probably replacing your barrel at half life anyway “just because” so all is well and I think it’s good that you are increasing Bartlein sales because Frank is a good guy for coming here and putting up with crazy.

 

[R_A_W]

only Varget can cause carbon rings

I dont think anyone said that

 

[lash]

I dont think anyone said that

Wrong, someone did say that. In this thread and in another thread about carbon rings. But it matters not to me if you believe me. Carry on.

 

[LeftyJason]

I dont think anyone said that

Post 120 in this thread.

 

[R_A_W]

Lol @DeathBeforeDismount merely said Varget causes carbon rings… which it does

Based upon y’all’s reading comprehension, y’all must be related to @MarkyMark007

 

[lash]

Lol @DeathBeforeDismount merely said Varget causes carbon rings… which it does

Based upon y’all’s reading comprehension, y’all must be related to @MarkyMark007

Perhaps you should look in a mirror.

 

[R_A_W]

i'm busy eating my iosso paste leave me alone

 

[RRW]

Lol @DeathBeforeDismount merely said Varget causes carbon rings… which it does

Based upon y’all’s reading comprehension, y’all must be related to @MarkyMark007

By him saying that about Varget specifically he is implying Varget would cause carbon rings where other powders won't. Any powder will if you shoot your rifle without cleaning it.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

View attachment 8213409
Post 120 in this thread.

So show me where I said "only Varget can cause carbon rings". Some of you have the reading comprehension of a dildo.

The vast majority of PRS/Match shooters who are having carbon rings, have them because the majority of them shoot varget. Its the go to powder from .223 to any 6 mm, to .308 and even some running in 6.5cm. I have found over the years, its notorious for carbon rings. There are so many other good powders that IMO, I don't even fuck with varget. H4350 while being a bit slower, is just as temp stable, gets better case fill due to energy/grain, is easier to find in 8 lb jugs, and is super forgiving when it comes to not cleaning all the time. Its a very clean burning powder. There are a few other powders that have similar properties like RL15-16, N140-N150 and even N540-N555, if you can deal with it being less temp stable and a bit more of a barrel burner due to it being a higher energy powder. Some powders are just more prone to carbon rings than others. I don't know if its the temps, how much residue they leave, the chemicals used or what. Just know there are patterns where some are bad and some are almost non existent.

 

[4O6shootist]

Varget does, but most the powders in it's burn bracket are worse, 4166 and rl15.5 are noticeably worse in my 6bra. Varget and H4350 are two the cleanest burning powders I've used.

 

[Ronin22]

Can a carbon ring be prevented, or at least drastically reduced, with longer case necks? Say one trims/let grow case necks to .002 from chamber wall?

 

[4O6shootist]

Can a carbon ring be prevented, or at least drastically reduced, with longer case necks? Say one trims/let grow case necks to .002 from chamber wall?

It can be "mitigated" in the chamber neck area with this, but it still accumaltes at the chamber neck end as there is a gap there. The problem with trimming brass so close to chamber spec, upon ignition brass expands, and if it hits the end of the chamber, it'll cause psi issues in this action. I'd not trim any closer than 5k short of chamber. My common practice on non magnum is 10k short of chamber, and 15k on magnums.

Carbon rings in the neck, are less, or slower to cause psi issues, VS a carbon ring that forms in the freebore diameter, that is usually a thousandth of diameter from the bullet OD. This area is where I've dealt with carbon rings causing issues unless routinely addressed. Certain powders are more prone to causing issues than others.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

So, from this entire discussion, I am gathering that …. draining battery acid from a used battery, filling my barrel with it to make sure I get rid of all the carbon and copper fouling and letting it sit for a week in the hot sun with the battery acid still in it…..

Is not a good idea??

That said, I do believe, I will stick with Rem Oil and Patches, only using Hoppes, and a nylon brush when accuracy seems to be falling off. At least Hoppes and a decent quality gun oil has seemed to work quite well since 1964.

 

[spife7980]

Just soaked a 6 creed barrel with c4, lots of black came out in many patches. Bore scoped it and still carbony as hell.
Let one clr patch soak it for 3 minutes before patching it dry and it’s clean as a whistle

You don’t have to let your barrel dissolve for weeks for clr to be effective.
You also don’t need to sand your barrel to bare metal chasing clean when a quick wipe will do. You don’t need to remove the staining, just the physical build up.

 

[4O6shootist]

Just soaked a 6 creed barrel with c4, lots of black came out in many patches. Bore scoped it and still carbony as hell.
Let one clr patch soak it for 3 minutes before patching it dry and it’s clean as a whistle

You don’t have to let your barrel dissolve for weeks for clr to be effective.
You also don’t need to sand your barrel to bare metal chasing clean when a quick wipe will do. You don’t need to remove the staining, just the physical build up.

I did same yesterday lol. Some clr on a patch/jag, and then a lil Th0rOclean on a patch for 10 strokes and they clean, not bare metal, but clean the way I like em. But then again these aren't Bartlein barrels

 

[Ronin22]

It can be "mitigated" in the chamber neck area with this, but it still accumaltes at the chamber neck end as there is a gap there. The problem with trimming brass so close to chamber spec, upon ignition brass expands, and if it hits the end of the chamber, it'll cause psi issues in this action. I'd not trim any closer than 5k short of chamber. My common practice on non magnum is 10k short of chamber, and 15k on magnums.

Carbon rings in the neck, are less, or slower to cause psi issues, VS a carbon ring that forms in the freebore diameter, that is usually a thousandth of diameter from the bullet OD. This area is where I've dealt with carbon rings causing issues unless routinely addressed. Certain powders are more prone to causing issues than others.

Considering freebore diameter in a .284 cartridge like 7mm Remmag, 708, etc is typically only .2845, I can see the concern for keeping that section of the chamber very clean. In contrast to 30 cal chambers that have much more clearance.

 

[Ronin22]

So, from this entire discussion, I am gathering that …. draining battery acid from a used battery, filling my barrel with it to make sure I get rid of all the carbon and copper fouling and letting it sit for a week in the hot sun with the battery acid still in it…..

Is not a good idea??

That said, I do believe, I will stick with Rem Oil and Patches, only using Hoppes, and a nylon brush when accuracy seems to be falling off. At least Hoppes and a decent quality gun oil has seemed to work quite well since 1964.

I was quickly made aware that Flitz metal polish and Flitz bore polish cleaner were of holy hell different compositions. I was cleaning milurps for an importer and was locked in a dumpster while the other employees rammed it across the parking lot with their vehicles, and there were air horns and bad clowns. Moral of the story, I stopped buying air horns and attending local fairs.

 

[4O6shootist]

Considering freebore diameter in a .284 cartridge like 7mm Remmag, 708, etc is typically only .2845, I can see the concern for keeping that section of the chamber very clean. In contrast to 30 cal chambers that have much more clearance.

Saami is just that. Most smith's will get their chamber reamers freebore 001 to 0015 over bullet diameter, for a lil extra clearance.

 

[TheGerman]

Cleaning tards doing cleaning tard things.

 

[Ronin22]

Saami is just that. Most smith's will get their chamber reamers freebore 001 to 0015 over bullet diameter, for a lil extra clearance.

Ok, I want to build a custom reamer for a 7mm something. There is a JGS reamer company that will make customs and I can put my name on the print. I do have the inclinations to be a bit sophomoric in the name. One can only imagine. Anyway, I lost the point of....oh yes. I would like to increase the freebore diameter to .285 min. Case neck clearance .316 SAMMI to .320 for a "no turn" neck.

 

[4O6shootist]

Ok, I want to build a custom reamer for a 7mm something. There is a JGS reamer company that will make customs and I can put my name on the print. I do have the inclinations to be a bit sophomoric in the name. One can only imagine. Anyway, I lost the point of....oh yes. I would like to increase the freebore diameter to .285 min. Case neck clearance .316 SAMMI to .320 for a "no turn" neck.

Sent you a pm, getting a lil too far off track of original subject matter.

 

[MarkyMark007]

...and even N540-N555, if you can deal with it being less temp stable and a bit more of a barrel burner due to it being a higher energy powder...

like I said few posts ago...

N555 IS temperature stable, and it is NOT high energy powder.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

like I said few posts ago...

N555 IS temperature stable, and it is NOT high energy powder.

Oh really? Tell that to VV.

N500 High Energy Rifle Powders | Reloading | Handloading | Gun powder - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori N500 high energy rifle powders are the perfect reloading option for a shooter who is looking for added velocity and range with heavy bullets.

www.vihtavuori.com

The N500 series of Vihtavuori propellants provide the utmost in performance. Vihtavuori N500 high energy powders are the perfect reloading option for a rifle shooter who is looking for added velocity and range with heavy bullets. Nitroglycerine has been added to the traditional single base rifle powder to get better energy content. The N500 Vihtavuori series offers seven different smokeless reloading powders with different burning rates, suitable for a variety of shooting disciplines such as long range target shooting and ELR.

Talk to anyone who shoots N565-N570 and ask them about barrel life compared to something like retumbo or RL33.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

You filled your barrel with C-4? Where were you able to obtain it. It was available to us on the Hill in Vietnam, but never saw it for sail to the general public. Guess you did a great job of getting all residue of it our of your barrel, otherwise, you might have gotten a real ”Bang” out of it the next time you fired it.

Vietnam War[edit]​

U.S. soldiers during the Vietnam War era would sometimes use small amounts of C-4 as a fuel for heating rations, as it will burn unless detonated with a primary explosive.[8] However, burning C-4 produces poisonous fumes, and soldiers are warned of the dangers of personal injury when using the plastic explosive.[28]

So, I suppose this is my problem. Never heard the fumes were poisonous but it sure did a great job of heating our c-rats.

Just soaked a 6 creed barrel with c4, lots of black came out in many patches. Bore scoped it and still carbony as hell.
Let one clr patch soak it for 3 minutes before patching it dry and it’s clean as a whistle

You don’t have to let your barrel dissolve for weeks for clr to be effective.
You also don’t need to sand your barrel to bare metal chasing clean when a quick wipe will do. You don’t need to remove the staining, just the physical build up.

Were we talking about barrels? Treat them as gently as possible, giving the nature of Precision Rifle, and they will treat you as you want them too.