Garmin AB watch

#151
All about licenses and getting paid, AB, Kestrel, Hornady, Garmin all need to get a taste. All think they can be Apple and dictate so you buy all the same gear to ensure interoperability.

Open ecosystem help innovation and proliferation.
 
#152
Nik H said:
BT is a global standard...so I don't understand your answer @DocUSMCRetired. I know you're not necessarily in the know as you are a third party to this but neither Garmin nor Leica appear forthcoming with a logical answer.

My guess is that they are running Bluetooth LE and do not necessarily support all of the profiles that a full featured BT transceiver, like in a laptop or mobile phone, will support. Hell, they may even be operating at different speeds so the devices can't communicate properly. That is the downside to BT. There can be a mishmash of standardized and unstandardized wireless connections that have never been tested for coexistence.

In all honesty, it isn't super difficult to solve this with a bit of mutual cooperation.

Really too bad.
Click to expand...

Way more complicated than this. If it was that simple, then you wouldn't have so many BLE issues when working from manufacturer to manufacturer. It is an open ended system where different companies often do things slightly different. Then you have the processing and memory capabilities depending on which chipset you go with. Then you also have the comms protocols, the encryption and security, and more. One single unified standard doesn't exist. One of the reasons why the Kestrel Dongle came into play. So many issues were had with different manufacturers chipsets in laptops that it was just safer and more reliable to run a bluetooth dongle. Logitech does the same thing, they run a unified dongle instead of relying on the different chipsets from every computer builder in the world.
 
#153
DocUSMCRetired said:
Way more complicated than this. If it was that simple, then you wouldn't have so many BLE issues when working from manufacturer to manufacturer. It is an open ended system where different companies often do things slightly different. Then you have the processing and memory capabilities depending on which chipset you go with. Then you also have the comms protocols, the encryption and security, and more. One single unified standard doesn't exist. One of the reasons why the Kestrel Dongle came into play. So many issues were had with different manufacturers chipsets in laptops that it was just safer and more reliable to run a bluetooth dongle. Logitech does the same thing, they run a unified dongle instead of relying on the different chipsets from every computer builder in the world.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, you are repeating what I said...

"There can be a mishmash of standardized and unstandardized wireless connections that have never been tested for coexistence."

I have been designing military and commercial communication systems for most of my career. All of the commercial systems required BT functionality and interoperability. Testing for coexistence is tedious and requires a concerted and planned effort. It adds many months to a release schedule and requires significant SW quality and test resources. Dongles are band aids that are sometimes necessary to overcome the limitations of the chipset chosen for use along with other reasons. Chipset requirements and tradeoffs sometimes force that to happen. Full featured chipsets are expensive and power hungry. Proprietary protocols are stupid plain and simple. Encrytpion and security are canned. No one uses proprietary encryption other than the Government. Integrating standardized encryption engines to your codebase is usually the complexity.

The only reason it is hard is because of the changes required due to poor planning. Once the HW design is locked, it generally requires tear up and huge time to market delays to add missing features necessary to allow solid interoperability and coexistence. Companies are not willing to do that for obvious reasons.
 
Last edited:
#154
are
DocUSMCRetired said:
Way more complicated than this. If it was that simple, then you wouldn't have so many BLE issues when working from manufacturer to manufacturer. It is an open ended system where different companies often do things slightly different. Then you have the processing and memory capabilities depending on which chipset you go with. Then you also have the comms protocols, the encryption and security, and more. One single unified standard doesn't exist. One of the reasons why the Kestrel Dongle came into play. So many issues were had with different manufacturers chipsets in laptops that it was just safer and more reliable to run a bluetooth dongle. Logitech does the same thing, they run a unified dongle instead of relying on the different chipsets from every computer builder in the world.
Click to expand...

Doc,

Thank you for answering the questions and for the time. Somehow the shooting industry needs to think less project to project (mil) and more civi if it will capture the hunters and larger shooter market share. Having so many siloed products without VERY clear guardrails spelled out, when a failure occurs, creates a lot of bad will towards the brand.

As a personal note, having an AB product (kestrel AB) that worked with both a Terrapin X and Leica, I expected that if the same terrapin X worked with the AB Garmin product, so would the Leica. This was a fatal mistake, my mistake.

Proprietary BTE should be part of the marketing and marked clearly on the packaging resulting in a better consumer understanding and outcome. Over a decade ago, we had robust field units (trimbles) working well with PLRFs. Going a bit backward seems counter-intuitive as even back then, connectivity was very transparent.

As you are taking the time to help here, I am only taking the time, hoping that it provides feedback that might prove helpful.
 
Last edited:
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#155
DocUSMCRetired said:
1) Make sure the binos are in ABE mode.
2) Make sure the bino firmware is up to date (through the BDX App from Sig)
3) Make sure the watch firmware is up to date (through Garmin app)
4) Set the time out on the binos to a bit longer.
Click to expand...
Thanks -- I played around with it some more -- confirmed watch (11.10) and binos (App 118, RF 32170, BT 1.125) both have latest firmware.

I've also removed and re-paired the binos with the Garmin. These binos work with my Foretrex 701 and consistently update the range (though I do not get a firing solution back in the bino display). The timeout on the Kilo3k is set to 180 and they are in ABX (ABE) mode.

On the Tactix the binos do show as connected as an AB device under "Sensors and Accessories". Under "About" I see the BT ID number, Tech: BLE, and everything else (Model, Man., Serial, SW Ver) are "--", Battery is "Invalid". Not sure if any of that should populate with a Kilo3k.

When I exit out of the settings to the main AB screen (or to the target cards), I have about 5 seconds where I can range and it updates on the watch. After that it no longer updates the watch. I can range about twice in that time, but it is time based not number of attempts based -- if I wait I get 0 updated readings, or I can take only one and the next doesn't update. I have gotten three different ranges in that time as well.

If I go back into settings, then down and into "Sensors and Accessories" (no need to scroll down to the AB device -- though it shows as connected if I do) then back out, I have another ~5 seconds to range. I can repeat this as often as I like, dipping back into S&A, then back out to take a quick reading.

Even for the readings which do update the watch, the ballistic solution in the Kilo3k stays at 0.0.
 
#156
Nik H said:
With all due respect, you are repeating what I said...

"There can be a mishmash of standardized and unstandardized wireless connections that have never been tested for coexistence."

I have been designing military and commercial communication systems for most of my career. All of the commercial systems required BT functionality and interoperability. Testing for coexistence is tedious and requires a concerted and planned effort. It adds many months to a release schedule and requires significant SW quality and test resources. Dongles are band aids that are sometimes necessary to overcome the limitations of the chipset chosen for use along with other reasons. Chipset requirements and tradeoffs sometimes force that to happen. Full featured chipsets are expensive and power hungry. Proprietary protocols are stupid plain and simple. Encrytpion and security are canned. No one uses proprietary encryption other than the Government. Integrating standardized encryption engines to your codebase is usually the complexity.

The only reason it is hard is because of the changes required due to poor planning. Once the HW design is locked, it generally requires tear up and huge time to market delays to add missing features necessary to allow solid interoperability and coexistence. Companies are not willing to do that for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

Then you can add on top future changes that might not be compatible or play nice. Its always fun.
 
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#157
Diver160651 said:
are

Doc,

Thank you for answering the questions and for the time. Somehow the shooting industry needs to think less project to project (mil) and more civi if it will capture the hunters and larger shooter market share. Having so many siloed products without VERY clear guardrails spelled out, when a failure occurs, creates a lot of bad will towards the brand.

As a personal note, having an AB product (kestrel AB) that worked with both a Terrapin X and Leica, I expected that if the same terrapin X worked with the AB Garmin product, so would the Leica. This was a fatal mistake, my mistake.

Proprietary BTE should be part of the marketing and marked clearly on the packaging resulting in a better consumer understanding and outcome. Over a decade ago, we had robust field units (trimbles) working well with PLRFs. Going a bit backward seems counter-intuitive as even back then, connectivity was very transparent.

As you are taking the time to help here, I am only taking the time, hoping that it provides feedback that might prove helpful.
Click to expand...



That would also require unification in the industry for data transfer. Some devices send everything as a complete packet of data while others may send sensor information out in individual chunks. This further complicates systems as to how it should read and interpret the data. Also it is important to understand that some systems are American, European, Asian, etc... Things are not always done the same around the world which even further complicates things.

We are always trying to improve things where we can, and we do keep track of feedback.
 
#158
Keyst0ne said:
Thanks -- I played around with it some more -- confirmed watch (11.10) and binos (App 118, RF 32170, BT 1.125) both have latest firmware.

I've also removed and re-paired the binos with the Garmin. These binos work with my Foretrex 701 and consistently update the range (though I do not get a firing solution back in the bino display). The timeout on the Kilo3k is set to 180 and they are in ABX (ABE) mode.

On the Tactix the binos do show as connected as an AB device under "Sensors and Accessories". Under "About" I see the BT ID number, Tech: BLE, and everything else (Model, Man., Serial, SW Ver) are "--", Battery is "Invalid". Not sure if any of that should populate with a Kilo3k.

When I exit out of the settings to the main AB screen (or to the target cards), I have about 5 seconds where I can range and it updates on the watch. After that it no longer updates the watch. I can range about twice in that time, but it is time based not number of attempts based -- if I wait I get 0 updated readings, or I can take only one and the next doesn't update. I have gotten three different ranges in that time as well.

If I go back into settings, then down and into "Sensors and Accessories" (no need to scroll down to the AB device -- though it shows as connected if I do) then back out, I have another ~5 seconds to range. I can repeat this as often as I like, dipping back into S&A, then back out to take a quick reading.

Even for the readings which do update the watch, the ballistic solution in the Kilo3k stays at 0.0.
Click to expand...

It should actually work better if you give it 5 to 7 seconds between ranging targets.
 
#162
Now for my own question -- is it possible to set the timeout on the AB app so it doesn't exit out and go to the watchface? I certainly dont want to be messing with pulling up the app before I range something and want to take a shot, but it only stays for a few minutes without input.
 
#163
Keyst0ne said:
Now for my own question -- is it possible to set the timeout on the AB app so it doesn't exit out and go to the watchface? I certainly dont want to be messing with pulling up the app before I range something and want to take a shot, but it only stays for a few minutes without input.
Click to expand...

If you're going back to the watchface in a few minutes you're likely bumping the back button on the watch. There is no timeout.
 
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#165
Diver160651 said:
^This is a confusing statement to me.

Kestrel AB connects with the Leica, Why would Garmin AB considered differently or "in the AB Ecosystem" vs the Kestrel? Is the Terripan X that does connect "in the AB Ecosystem"?

Not addressing the Leica's connection is a huge missed opportunity. Leica.com has one of the best diode-controled beams (along with the terrapin) in one of the smallest lightest packages, especially valuable for pack hunters, and does not rely as heavily on the less effective software gating the SIGs trying to simulate a low beam divergence.

I say this as a disappointed purchaser of the Garmin AB watch. I haven't even opened the box, but gave away my Fenix 5X and bummed to read what I just did.
Click to expand...


I have a gently used Garmin 5x that I will trade you for the AB watch.
 
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#166
Ok. The watch is very similar to my other gens from Garmin. Is it worth dropping your 5x or 6x for this watch? Probably not as both have ballistic solvers. Well the solar is a game changer so maybe, ok ya that part, it’s great.

Well, that said, AB guys did create a very nice UI and my hats of to that side. Will I use it as planned without connectivity to the Leica no.
 
#167
Diver160651 said:
Ok. The watch is very similar to my other gens from Garmin. Is it worth dropping your 5x or 6x for this watch? Probably not as both have ballistic solvers.
Click to expand...
I upgraded from a Fenix 2 and boy is that jump worth it -- I was going to get a new Fenix 6 or something anyway to get better metrics and full time HR. It was only a little more to get the AB version and I can sell my Foretrex 701 if I want and recover that difference too.
 
#168
Diver160651 said:
Ok. The watch is very similar to my other gens from Garmin. Is it worth dropping your 5x or 6x for this watch? Probably not as both have ballistic solvers. Well the solar is a game changer so maybe, ok ya that part, it’s great.

Well, that said, AB guys did create a very nice UI and my hats of to that side. Will I use it as planned without connectivity to the Leica no.
Click to expand...

Wait, I must be behind the times or too old for this stuff!
There is a ballistic solver for a Fenix 6S??

I did find the 'Race' app like the MARQ Driver has, so maybe I'm not hopeless. :)
 
#169
RayDBonz said:
Wait, I must be behind the times or too old for this stuff!
There is a ballistic solver for a Fenix 6S??

I did find the 'Race' app like the MARQ Driver has, so maybe I'm not hopeless. :)
Click to expand...

Not sure what someone may have written for the 6S as a Connect IQ app, but the AB solver is only available as a built-in app on the Tactix Delta Solar with Ballistics (and the Foretrex 701).
 
#170
glassg said:
Not sure what someone may have written for the 6S as a Connect IQ app, but the AB solver is only available as a built-in app on the Tactix Delta Solar with Ballistics (and the Foretrex 701).
Click to expand...

Correct. If you want AB, you go with the latest offering. If you want to mess with some other non-AB app, they can be available on the 5x to my knowledge.

To be honest, the AB Garmin is pretty well thought out. It's very intuitive and easy to use. My dope maps up almost identical to my Kestrel 5700 AB, to the point it's splitting hairs. I induce more variable change as the shooter than the comparable data between both app's outputs.

@DocUSMCRetired How many profiles can the AB Garmin hold? Is it comparable to the Kestrel 5700 AB?
 
#171
SkyScrapin said:
To be honest, the AB Garmin is pretty well thought out. It's very intuitive and easy to use. My dope maps up almost identical to my Kestrel 5700 AB, to the point it's splitting hairs. I induce more variable change as the shooter than the comparable data between both app's outputs.
Click to expand...

100% agree!
 
#172
SkyScrapin said:
Correct. If you want AB, you go with the latest offering. If you want to mess with some other non-AB app, they can be available on the 5x to my knowledge.

To be honest, the AB Garmin is pretty well thought out. It's very intuitive and easy to use. My dope maps up almost identical to my Kestrel 5700 AB, to the point it's splitting hairs. I induce more variable change as the shooter than the comparable data between both app's outputs.

@DocUSMCRetired How many profiles can the AB Garmin hold? Is it comparable to the Kestrel 5700 AB?
Click to expand...

The Garmin is limited to 50 profiles.
 
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#173
Anybody with the watch have pairing issues to the Garmin connect app? I can get the watch to pair with Bluetooth to my iPhone pro but it always fails to pair with the app. I’ve tried everything under the sun on the Garmin support pages. I am currently waiting for an email back from CS. I am curious if anyone who experienced this may have a quick fix. Thanks
 
#174
Hardpan said:
Anybody with the watch have pairing issues to the Garmin connect app? I can get the watch to pair with Bluetooth to my iPhone pro but it always fails to pair with the app. I’ve tried everything under the sun on the Garmin support pages. I am currently waiting for an email back from CS. I am curious if anyone who experienced this may have a quick fix. Thanks
Click to expand...

Try reinstalling connect. My took a little longer to pair on the first try too. Required an update and it paired shortly there after. Believe I did the update on my MacBook, but can’t recall.
 
#176
Keyst0ne said:
Thanks -- I played around with it some more -- confirmed watch (11.10) and binos (App 118, RF 32170, BT 1.125) both have latest firmware.

I've also removed and re-paired the binos with the Garmin. These binos work with my Foretrex 701 and consistently update the range (though I do not get a firing solution back in the bino display). The timeout on the Kilo3k is set to 180 and they are in ABX (ABE) mode.

On the Tactix the binos do show as connected as an AB device under "Sensors and Accessories". Under "About" I see the BT ID number, Tech: BLE, and everything else (Model, Man., Serial, SW Ver) are "--", Battery is "Invalid". Not sure if any of that should populate with a Kilo3k.

When I exit out of the settings to the main AB screen (or to the target cards), I have about 5 seconds where I can range and it updates on the watch. After that it no longer updates the watch. I can range about twice in that time, but it is time based not number of attempts based -- if I wait I get 0 updated readings, or I can take only one and the next doesn't update. I have gotten three different ranges in that time as well.

If I go back into settings, then down and into "Sensors and Accessories" (no need to scroll down to the AB device -- though it shows as connected if I do) then back out, I have another ~5 seconds to range. I can repeat this as often as I like, dipping back into S&A, then back out to take a quick reading.

Even for the readings which do update the watch, the ballistic solution in the Kilo3k stays at 0.0.
Click to expand...
I figured this out after figuring out the question I had about timeout. My problem was because I was accessing AB through the quick (circular) menu. When I access it through activities my Kilo3k works perfectly and of course it doesn't time out.
 
#177
Has anyone encountered the watch restarting while updating the AB Quick Edit? Mine has done it a couple of times. I've not yet looked to see exactly what button order causes it but figured I'd asked if others have seen it, too.

I'm running the latest software.
 
#178
parshal said:
Has anyone encountered the watch restarting while updating the AB Quick Edit? Mine has done it a couple of times. I've not yet looked to see exactly what button order causes it but figured I'd asked if others have seen it, too.

I'm running the latest software.
Click to expand...
No, haven't experienced a single unrequested restart with this watch.
 
#180
@DocUSMCRetired

I have the Garmin Delta Ballistic and PLRF25c BLE X2 part number 914770. I'm trying to connect these two via bluetooth, but am struggling to figure out which settings to use.

In the PLRF25c, which BT Interface should I be using? BT 4.2 or BT Kestrel? I assume BT 4.2.

Can I go straight into pairing mode on the PLRF25c and go through the Vectronix connect procedure on the Garmin watch?

Ironically, the Vectronix shows up on my watch as an option to connect, but it's proving to be a real PITA to figure out how to get them to talk to one another.
 
#181
I am in the same boat but with a new Terrapin x and the watch.

Man is this ever frustrating! I have read everything garmin, this thread like 5x and updated - removed - reinstalled...I connect the TX thru sensors, go to AB and get maybe 1 lase maybe and then it drops off BT.

Driving me crazy
 
#182
DetroitRearView said:
I am in the same boat but with a new Terrapin x and the watch.

Man is this ever frustrating! I have read everything garmin, this thread like 5x and updated - removed - reinstalled...I connect the TX thru sensors, go to AB and get maybe 1 lase maybe and then it drops off BT.

Driving me crazy
Click to expand...

Which of the BT options are you using on the terrapin? When you press the button 3 times and goes to the BT menu, which one are you using?
 
#184
When I go to “accessories and sensors” AB is not present, I have been using the “circular” function to start AB because I can’t seem to start it from “activities and apps” the only option I get is “remove from favorites” or “reorder”

I almost deleted AB from the Garmin connect app - but wasn’t sure if it would allow me to re-install AB to the watch...any advise is greatly appreciated!
 
#186
DetroitRearView said:
When I go to “accessories and sensors” AB is not present, I have been using the “circular” function to start AB because I can’t seem to start it from “activities and apps” the only option I get is “remove from favorites” or “reorder”

I almost deleted AB from the Garmin connect app - but wasn’t sure if it would allow me to re-install AB to the watch...any advise is greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

When you press the start/enter (top right button on watch), it doesn’t bring up a list with AB as the first option?
 
#187
Dthomas3523 said:
When you press the start/enter (top right button on watch), it doesn’t bring up a list with AB as the first option?
Click to expand...

It should and it also could be added or re-ordered which is only moving it up and down. I don’t think there’s an option to delete that I have come across.

Check out the attachment. tdH is correct for the Garmin. It’s not an option for the PLRF25c. Can’t even get it to connect :(

8EAFD88F-DA96-4D4E-9755-8186884CE4C0.png
 
#190
Sorry, not real specific, back to defaults, rebooted watch - went to app for the TX then back to garmin on TX BT; re-paired both and all is well.I m sure I missed something in the original setup - but honestly I tried so many things I cannot recall my misguided turns...
 
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#191
DetroitRearView said:
Sorry, not real specific, back to defaults, rebooted watch - went to app for the TX then back to garmin on TX BT; re-paired both and all is well.I m sure I missed something in the original setup - but honestly I tried so many things I cannot recall my misguided turns...
Click to expand...

I had similar experience. Once I downloaded software update for T-X and restarted everything, it’s working perfectly.
 
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#192
So, I located a massive bull Elk on a ridge, tried to range him with my TX/Garmin combo. The TX ranged him @ 1130 yards perfect broadside. Even though my TX showed a connection to the watch but the Garmin did not show the yardage or solution. I tried again and the BT was flashing on the TX. He moved a bit, so I tried my 2400 ABS but couldn’t be confident if I was ranging the bull or the ridge. I then restarted the watch and and took the TX off BT and then back to BT connection to the watch. The connection was then restored but the bull had disappeared into the timber. I could not relocate him...wanting to get closer I ran out of daylight.

Anyone using this combo, how do you setup before a couple hour hunt or match? Do you leave the watch on “clock” and the TX non BT?

Is their a sequence that is best to retain connection and operability?

Finally, the internal test for the TX has never worked on my device. Has anyone experienced that?

Any help would be greatly appreciated in the middle of this hunting season...thank you

9D6B8BC1-3D3F-4CED-9742-26F87730D989.jpeg
 
#194
DetroitRearView said:
So, I located a massive bull Elk on a ridge, tried to range him with my TX/Garmin combo. The TX ranged him @ 1130 yards perfect broadside. Even though my TX showed a connection to the watch but the Garmin did not show the yardage or solution. I tried again and the BT was flashing on the TX. He moved a bit, so I tried my 2400 ABS but couldn’t be confident if I was ranging the bull or the ridge. I then restarted the watch and and took the TX off BT and then back to BT connection to the watch. The connection was then restored but the bull had disappeared into the timber. I could not relocate him...wanting to get closer I ran out of daylight.

Anyone using this combo, how do you setup before a couple hour hunt or match? Do you leave the watch on “clock” and the TX non BT?

Is their a sequence that is best to retain connection and operability?

Finally, the internal test for the TX has never worked on my device. Has anyone experienced that?

Any help would be greatly appreciated in the middle of this hunting season...thank you

View attachment 7451314
Click to expand...

Just shot a match Sunday. Left the T-X and Watch connected without turning the Bluetooth off on the T-X at all.

It would connect and work fine within a few seconds every time. Did this for 6hrs.
 
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#196
DetroitRearView said:
Thanks for the match experience. I found that I was messing up by checking the time on the watch while the TX was still connected to AB.

If I leave the watch on AB and allow the TX to time out it stays connected as it ought. As per normal it was my own fault on incorrect sequencing.
Click to expand...

Good to know. There are definitely some quirks here and there.
 
#199
So is everyone keeping the factory band? If not what are you using? I just snatched one from hardpan, had to sell my plain Jane delta i bought just weeks before this bad boy was released first.
 
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