You are right, the facts are they suck as cars when looked at next to an ICE vehicle.
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Great analysis of electric cars
- Thread starter sirhrmechanic
- Start date
The ONLY reason it is inevitable is because the .gov's of the world are pushing them. And the reason they are pushing them is because the WEF/UN is pushing for more control over the normies. That is the only reason. We can hope the people will wake the fuck up and see the con job that is being pushed on them.
We see what happens when the .gov stops handing out "free" money so some people can be trendy. The sales tank. In Germany they tank by about 25%. So tell me if this car is so fantastic why do sales drop when the .gov cheeze stops?
As you have a thinking post I will give you a thinking reply.
There is little doubt the tech is amazing. And I do think that there are people where an electric car would work. Notice I did not say make sense, or be better then an ICE car, work.
Think half a step up from an "old folks" development where everyone rides around in a golf cart. If you live inside of 10 miles from work, groceries, and everything else you do, a small EV will work. But notice this is not what we are building. These things can weigh a bit much.
You are in 3/4 ton truck area with this weight.
The added weight is harder on everything, roads, tires, brakes. Some parking garages have restricted EV's to the bottom level because of the weight. They come in at roughly 1000lbs more then your average vehicle.
This is being sold on the "climate change". And that is the only thing that is being pushed. Sad truth is these things are worse for the enviroment then anything else.
Agree across the board… when I say inevitable, I am thinking on a timeline that lets the technology mature from top to bottom.
What the govt is forcing is garbage. And fashion statements. And more wealth redistribution to cronies.
The funny thing is that 200 years from now, if we are still around as an advanced society, scientists and engineers are going to be looking at how we used up hydrocarbons in the 20th century and saying… damn, the stuff we could use that for now! How could they have wasted it so badly.
But… can’t get “there” from horse and buggy’s without it. So not wasted at all. A necessary step to a day when we have 90 percent efficient solar cells, superconducting materials, miniature nuclear isotope reactors and a hydrogen/electric infrastructure.
Electric cars are inevitable. But only the ones where technology matches consumer demand and they don’t have to be subsidized in the name of gooder weather (aka socialism in sheep’s clothing.)
Sirhr
I don't think we will ever run out. Humans are fairly smart creatures. They will find something to run their gizmos on.
We will find a way.
You can never get around the battery is the single worst thing to store energy in. It flat sucks. There will never be, and I did say NEVER, be a "breakthrough" that will bring the battery up to levels that are acceptable. It is just not how the battery works.
We could be miles ahead if half the energy put into this battery dead end was put into other ways to run our stuff.
You need to remember the battery car is not about giving you a better car, it is so they can control you better. That is it. And this is why they are pushing regs to limit your "classic" cars.
Energy Density of some Combustibles | The Geography of Transport Systems
transportgeography.org
Energy density
chemistry.beloit.edu
We wouldn't mind having an EV for local running around.
Not sure how charging it would impact our electric utility bill.
Wife and I currently drive Diesels.
Hers is a 2018 Chevy Equinox,
(complex and expensive emissions & sensors)
Mine is a 25 year old 7.3 Powerstroke.
Still clacking just fine.
Minimal emissions controls, 6 sensors.
Actually, what I really want is a 2-cycle Saab....
Not sure how charging it would impact our electric utility bill.
Wife and I currently drive Diesels.
Hers is a 2018 Chevy Equinox,
(complex and expensive emissions & sensors)
Mine is a 25 year old 7.3 Powerstroke.
Still clacking just fine.
Minimal emissions controls, 6 sensors.
Actually, what I really want is a 2-cycle Saab....
Some day fossil fuels will be replaced. That day is not today. It may not be in the next 20 years. The left forcing it on us is a recipe for disaster, ie mass starvation. Invest in quality energy stocks....we can't make enough electricity to go green.
All those hoses, has to be coolant. I can only imagine how hot this stuff gets....and that is before it bursts into flames.
I tend to agree with most opinions here about EV’s. IMO people buy EV’s for 2 main reasons in our area of the country, WA:
1. Because they’ve bought into the “better for the environment” myth
2. Virtue signaling
I do believe the government edicts are about control and money.
I/we fall into the curious category. We just bought our first regenerative hybrid. Lexus 500h. The regenerative hybids are interesting to me from the standard point that I think supplementing gas engines with electric motors for extra mileage and instant torque is interesting. I’m all for using less gas. This 500h is a twin turbo 4cyl with electric motors producing 366hp/406ftlbs and gets 27/28 mpg. While I think they could/should get better mileage than the 27/28, I/we’ve been pretty impressed.
I remember reading an article that found if you remove all the subsidies from the EV industry, the price per gallon equates to $17/gallon. Ouch
I think is amusing to hear Ford is losing 1.3 billion on EV’s and I just heard Mercedes is pulling back. Good. As it should be. IMO they largely skipped the hybrid tech and went straight to EV.
1. Because they’ve bought into the “better for the environment” myth
2. Virtue signaling
I do believe the government edicts are about control and money.
I/we fall into the curious category. We just bought our first regenerative hybrid. Lexus 500h. The regenerative hybids are interesting to me from the standard point that I think supplementing gas engines with electric motors for extra mileage and instant torque is interesting. I’m all for using less gas. This 500h is a twin turbo 4cyl with electric motors producing 366hp/406ftlbs and gets 27/28 mpg. While I think they could/should get better mileage than the 27/28, I/we’ve been pretty impressed.
I remember reading an article that found if you remove all the subsidies from the EV industry, the price per gallon equates to $17/gallon. Ouch
I think is amusing to hear Ford is losing 1.3 billion on EV’s and I just heard Mercedes is pulling back. Good. As it should be. IMO they largely skipped the hybrid tech and went straight to EV.
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Electric cars are a shit idea and it is loved by fucking idiots. Currently, there is not enough power on EARTH to support an entirely electric economy. We could darken the planet with solar panels and still would be a few terawatts short. The grid would have to expand tenfold and every home would need a three phase, 480 volt hook-up to support the chargers, effectively tripling the size of all residential power lines.
The planet would have to be strip mined of minerals and all of the children of third world countries enslaved to refine the resources required to get climate wackos into electric cars. Then add electric heat, electric stoves and remove all gas powered devices on earth. The entire idea is fucking stupid. Imagine the size of battery banks you will need to power California when the clouds cover the sun or the wind stops blowing. The wind does not blow on the hottest or coldest days of the year, that is just SCIENCE.
I was in Liverpool England last year, we took a walking tour led by some leftist cunt who stopped at a statue built by cunts that held a flag ten feet in the fucking air. That was the expected water level in JUST TEN YEARS if we didn't suck climate cock. It was built 30 yards from the water's edge.................................................they same fucking water's edge as it was in 1500 AD. So in 523 fucking years the water had risen almost 1 inch. But, it would rise ten fucking FEET in 50 if we did not raise taxes and destroy businesses.
This whole fucking idea is a hoax. If you want to buy an electric car because you are a twat who drives 10 miles a day, feel free to do it. Just fuck off already and leave the rest of the planet alone.
The planet would have to be strip mined of minerals and all of the children of third world countries enslaved to refine the resources required to get climate wackos into electric cars. Then add electric heat, electric stoves and remove all gas powered devices on earth. The entire idea is fucking stupid. Imagine the size of battery banks you will need to power California when the clouds cover the sun or the wind stops blowing. The wind does not blow on the hottest or coldest days of the year, that is just SCIENCE.
I was in Liverpool England last year, we took a walking tour led by some leftist cunt who stopped at a statue built by cunts that held a flag ten feet in the fucking air. That was the expected water level in JUST TEN YEARS if we didn't suck climate cock. It was built 30 yards from the water's edge.................................................they same fucking water's edge as it was in 1500 AD. So in 523 fucking years the water had risen almost 1 inch. But, it would rise ten fucking FEET in 50 if we did not raise taxes and destroy businesses.
This whole fucking idea is a hoax. If you want to buy an electric car because you are a twat who drives 10 miles a day, feel free to do it. Just fuck off already and leave the rest of the planet alone.
Yeah - the weight is a thing that is conveniently ignored. My friend's Rivian weighs over a thousand pounds more than the F-150 4x4 my daughter bought recently. The EV cars are as heavy as her truck as well - or heavier. There are a lot more F-150s that EVs around here though.
Agree they don't work for many but those I know get more miles out of a charge on their EV that I get out of a tank of gas so it works for them.
The virtue thing is just annoying nonsense on both ends. I don't know why we have to turn everything into right or left BS. Just like the far left stupidity over the gadsen flag being a symbol of nazis or hate or whatever, some look at an EV as a symbol of some BS and go into some snowflake meltdown. Its a car - WTF. I've got no issue with EVs other than I have a hard no that they should be forced on anyone - ever. OK - the BS narrative that they are some environmental miracle is annoying as well. The guys I know with EVs are pretty conservative and just like the technology and the cars / truck work well for what they do. Honestly, for them they are more just new toys satisfying their curiosity.
Mining equipment varies by country.
Some of it's not fancy and uses kids
Some of it's not fancy and uses kids
Depends on whether you are talking about a battery or a fuel cell... which is sort of a battery.I don't think we will ever run out. Humans are fairly smart creatures. They will find something to run their gizmos on.
We will find a way.
View attachment 8417011
You can never get around the battery is the single worst thing to store energy in. It flat sucks. There will never be, and I did say NEVER, be a "breakthrough" that will bring the battery up to levels that are acceptable. It is just not how the battery works.
We could be miles ahead if half the energy put into this battery dead end was put into other ways to run our stuff.
You need to remember the battery car is not about giving you a better car, it is so they can control you better. That is it. And this is why they are pushing regs to limit your "classic" cars.
Energy Density of some Combustibles | The Geography of Transport Systems
Energy density
chemistry.beloit.edu
Lead/Acid... Lithium... etc... short of a superconducting materials breakthrough you are right on. It's inefficient and heavy and hauling them around makes little sense from an energy budget standpoint.
But fuel cells (hydrogen) is a form of battery and 'can' power electric vehicles in a more efficient manner. Plus if you start adding in better efficiency for converting sun to energy (stored or not?) and transmission efficiency... electric cars can (and I'll argue will) become viable. And probably predominant. But on what timeline? Not the next 20 years. Maybe the next 50? Probably in the next 200.. IF we manage to stay in a global Goldilocks Zone where we can keep advancing technologically.
Hydrocarbon Man (to quote Daniel Yergin whose book 'The Prize is beyond brilliant') is on borrowed time. We will turn into Solar man. Isotope Man. Geothermal Man. Wind man. Tidal Man.... something and probably all of the above.
And to your point about synthetic fuels... YES!!! But to make them efficiently, we will need the energy to create complex hydrocarbon atoms (synthetic fuel) in a way that does not cost stupidly-more money/energy. (Same thing.) If we can harness solar/geothermal/tidal/wind and transmit that energy efficiently enough to run chemical processes to create synthetic 89-Octane gasoline and Diesel... then we can keep using 'That' forever. But right now the in/out budget does not work.
With breakthroughs in all of the 'alternate' energy sources, the ability to make synthetic 'dinosaur-based' fuels will be reasonable. Which I will really appreciate becuse my Turbo Bentley does NOT run on Unicorn Farts and solar power.
But inevitable.... I do think that EV's will eventually rule. We'll all be dead. And the technology will be unrecognizable. But it's going to happen. Or "EV" power will create gasoline by fusing atoms. Ok. Same thing. Mostly.
Cheers!
Sirhr
Mining equipment varies by country.
Some of it's not fancy and uses kids
Well, the original tractor 'was' named Kunta Kinte. Er... I mean "Toby."
*Whip cracks* Kunta Kinte.
"No Toby"
Repeat until servitude reached.
Cheers,
Sirhr
I'd rather have a Mr. Fusion on my truck than a battery pack.
But I'd much rather have a V8 under the hood.
But I'd much rather have a V8 under the hood.
In the end, the only real long term solution is to build nuclear power plants. Fusion holds great promise. But with three exceptions, even current fission plants, have been operating for many years, with no issues. The long term ability of nuclear power to generate electricity can be used to covert water into oxygen and hydrogen. If I am not mistaken, the hydrogen can then be used in fuel cells.
At least into the foreseeable (and longterm) future, it is the only real future.
At least into the foreseeable (and longterm) future, it is the only real future.
I think the miles out of a charge vs a tank of gas is a bit of a false argument. You really need to reduce it down to the base levels, and that gets really complex and you need to "cut the cord" somewhere. If you start with well how far will an electric car go on 1Kwh, vs how far will a gas car go on 1 gal of gas, well those two things are not even in the same ball park. So many people in the anti EV group love to say well how much fuel did it take to make that 1kw of electricity, ok how much did it take to make one gal of gas. It is a very deep hole and the two just don't line up. So most people reduce it all down to how far can I go on a tank or charge. And again it is a silly argument.
I am actually shocked that this has not come out yet. How many people "need" a 300 mile range. Drive to work, stop at the grocery store drive home. That is a vast majority of people. Now toss in the trip to soccer practice or whatever and you are going to cover 98% of the people out there with their personal vehicle. The only reason this has not been brought up is the "control" thing, and they know there would be resistance to it.
An EV (currently) is a horrid vehicle, they do not have the ability (for the most part) to go 200k miles, don't bother quoting the high mileage tesla, one oddity is not reflective on the entire segment. We all know it is quite common to see gas cars with 200k miles on them anymore. If you are older you likely remember the days when a car was "wore out" in 100k, and it was time to get a new one, or total crap boxes.
What you really need to do is look into the why. Why is the EV being pushed so hard. It is clear it is not for the "climate change". The process of getting the thing to go, magnets and other materials that differ from a gas car, are so much more rough on "the planet" then oil extraction is. Part of that is because on how it is regulated, and the battery stuff is things from the start of the industrial revolution, child labor and working conditions and all.
So why.....they will have control. The day is coming when the car will control you, and the .gov will control the car. This is why. That is not unique to the EV however, but you will likely see it there first.
I see fuel cells as a totally different road then the "battery". I really think it the investment had been made in that area we would be much farther along. There are issues there as well no doubt.
I think synthetic fuels could be done currently with our advancements in solar, wind and geothermal. Think of places like Iceland where there is "easy" geothermal available. That could be the new mid east in terms of energy production. Limitless power exists in that country. Here is the power you need for all that "stuff" right there ready to go.
I also think the EV will be the winner in the end, not because it is the best tech, but because the people are too stupit to see the choak chain that is the EV, and even less stupid to look up and see who is holding the leash.
Exactly!
But we are investing in the wrong things, for the wrong reason to give the “illusion” of having an electric infrastructure and “dreamy cars that save polar bears.” It’s all a scam!
Done properly, the “Right” EV wil have limitless mileage (accomplished with rapid replenishment of “fuel” from whatever source. And won’t squander energy hauling around massive battery packs. And won’t simply be converting fossil fuels to electricity in a most inefficient manner!
As for the tethering of the sheep… this is being pushed in “15 minute cities,” the mantra of “you don’t need a car”, hive living, you will own nothing…. And the car is one of the ultimate sources of freedom and symbols of wealth! So it must be destroyed. Which is part and parcel of pushing EV’s now… to undermine the whole industry. (Sort of like putting in Hillary-care HMO’s and Obamacare to destroy healthcare industry and make people demand government run single payer socialized medicine… which is all about control)! Once undermined, the car industry collapses and the “leaders”’say “see?” Now hop in the boxcar and we’ll take you to where the work is
Oh and pretty much every new vehicle is now “tethered” with remote kill switches and lots of remote control/disable features. Not the least of which is total dependence on chips for everything. Meaning you can’t realistically fix your own car.
And if you want to see the next mess… look at the “carbon taxes” being rammed through in Vermont by the progressive supermajority legislature. Annual reporting of miles you drove… taxes on distance travelled. Taxes on heating your house…. All pushed by a Green Socialist minority that got itself elected and hijacked the state govt. at every level.
The only good news is that there probably “is” going to be a reset at some point and so don’t think it’s going to end in a green eco paradise with everyone living in dreamy hives never more than seven feet from an Starbucks and a Drg Queen Show.
Just don’t think things work out that way in reality!
Sirhr
PS. Not stirring the pot (at least not intentionally or for the sake of it) and FPGT is spot on with good comments… so we are in “violent agreement!”
Exactly!
The reason petroleum won out was not “those evil oil companies” who killed the electric car… but the energy density of gas/diesel. And the fact that it is a compact liquid that is easily transported with no “loss.” And could be replenished in a gas Tank in seconds.
Nothing else has that capability.
The book The Prize by Daniel Yergin is an amazing history of petroleum… and worth the read.
As for FPGT’s climate change point… 100 percent! Read Michel Crichton’s State of Fear. The whole point of it is that the climate industry rose from the ash heap of communism… Earth Day 1990… ground zero of the green revolution… coincided with the destruction of the Eastern Bloc.
All the communist, socialist, one world campus hippie types didn’t give up. They traded their Marx and Mao red books for Gaia and spent the last 35 years indoctrinating three generations of little socialists who are going to be happy to destroy western civilization if it saves just one polar bear.
THIS is the green agenda in a nutshell.
And EV’s and blue recycle bins and carbon conferences are all part of the scam to destroy the evils of individual freedom. And usher in a Brave new world of compliance to a herd… that serves its elite masters.
Huxley, Orwell, Rand, Crichton…all warned us. The left took those books and turned them into how-to manuals.
You would think that between Hitler, Stalin, Mao and a few others, (and 100+ million dead last century) we’d have learned what happens when individual freedom is erased. But nope, they just weren’t “real socialism.” Which has apparently never been tried yet.
Then again, the “real socialists” seem to want 7.5 billion dead to save the planet and give them enough of a workforce to keep their lifestyles plush. So maybe “real socialism” is even more genocidal than the test runs we have seen for 100 years or so.
Sirhr
I'm betting the EVs that catch on fire aren't repaired. With that said, wouldn't it remove itself from the repair list, which would automatically lower the repair percentages vs ICE vehicles.
What are the percentages of total burn down of EV vs ICE?
I wondered how long it would take you to ease into this discussion.
Oh, the nightmarish stories you could tell...
You really need, or perhaps not as it will only raise your blood pressure this book:
What you are saying is correct, they are working on things like this with cars:
At first glance you will likely think, well good if you don't pay for it you should not have it. Now think a little farther down the road. Do you really not think they can just turn that car off if your social credit score is not enough, or you don't have enough carbon credits to go to the grocery store. You know they will.
I will not even get into this little gem:
Don't "do it" in the car, tesla may be watching, and if you think that video has no value think again.
Other than agreeing to many above that understand this whole Situation is a scam I can only point out some real issues I’m seeing in the shop working on this great (sarcasm) technology.
We even have Cayenne hybrids sitting here for over a year because the needed batteries aren’t available. Imagine the cost of having a pissed off customer driving around in a loner for all this time….
Taycan EV batteries get changed or repaired on about a biweekly basis. Other components like high voltage heaters (campaign) too.
For leaking A/C compressors or drive motor control units ( water cooled ) the whole front or rear axles have to be removed. About a 2 day job.
Constant sw updates, some take all day and sometimes turn a control unit into a brick…
What will happen to these vehicles when they are not more covered under warranty?
A new Macan EV is expected soon, also a new tacan version. I heard last week that 911’s from 25 onwards will be only available as hybrids!
They talking about using systems comparable to prototype and F1 cars.
Not to mention what a technician has to learn these days just to try his best to keep up…
The older vehicles don’t disappear and need to be repaired and serviced too.
I’m 62 and plan on getting out in 3 years but feel like this day can’t come early enough.
Rant over, T.
To be fair, I haven't see a ICE vehicle that has been able to be repaired from a major fire either. When I was at the dealership, that was always a total loss when the insurance company came out to look at it, if they even came out to look at it all.
Fire on an EV vs fire on ICE.
You said MAJOR fire on an ICE vehicle.
A fire department will attempt to extinguish an ICE vehicle fire. Major or not. A minor fire usually allows repairs and further use.
They won't attempt to extinguish on an EV.
Before you cry foul, it is what it is.
So, the question remains.
What are the percentages of EV vs ICE that catch on fire? Not Major fire, just fire.
How many ICE vehicles are totaled due to fire.
How many EV? (Most likely 100%)
You should have the answer at your fingertips.
Oh we moving the goal post now. The fact still remains, ICE cars do catch fire more often than a EV.
You need to quit getting your info from the first three responses from a google search. I have a feeling you will learn much more if you dig a bit deeper.
We had a family friend who worked for NASA back in the day.
He had a concept, on how easy it would be to make all public transportation free, using nuclear energy.
He knew it would never pass, because politicians are paid by business, and there's no money in free.
You're the one moving the goal posts.
The number of ICE vs EV catching fire is a numbers game.
How many of those ICE vehicles are 15+ years old?
How many EV over 15 are actually still in the road?
You still refuse to even address the question. Typical.
Of course they are safer. Its obvious. Since we will all be sitting around waiting for the grid to have enough electricity available to charge our ev’s batteries, sitting, not driving is the key word.Let’s all get an EV then, since they are safer!
Can’t have an accident on the road, when you are sitting inside your home sweet home while your earth saving, polar bear loving ev sits outside with a dead battery.
I‘ll be selling these to anyone who thinks they might get hungry in the interim and need to grow a garden.
Iffins you got a Ford Lightning, you could tap into the battery to power your house. Then, you could recharge the Lightning from the house current without even having to draw from the grid.
Follow the science!
How many of those ICE fires are from mostly peaceful protests and the like?
This is something I considered as well.
I have more than one over 20 myself that gets driven almost daily.
One from the late 60's on occasion.
R
This is the same type of S H I T that people from CBS and their ilk do. Throw out a statistic based on so many. Worked real good for Bastrop, Louisiana one year. Named murder capital of the world. Problem was the statistic was based on murders per 100,000. Bastrop had one murder that year, ONE (1) !
Don’t give me this per 100,000 crap, it’s just a shitty way to create fake data.
For the rest of the story. Bastrop did have a couple of bad years more recently, with two to three murders, it was rough.
The charging infrastructure is the key in that whole thing.
One of the guys I follow that does car reviews does a 600 mile speed test with EVs as his default test to see how it works.
This is in Norway where all the main gas stations now have banks of EV chargers.
This is also assuming you have to follow the strictly enforced speed limits.
Most normal folks need to like get out and go to the bathroom and get something to eat and drink and stretch their legs and such every so many hours, even if it's only a short break.
He did a benchmark run in a gasoline powered BMW.
Then all the EV tests over a couple years.
The latest generation EVs pretty much came in 30 minutes to 45 minutes slower than the fast gasoline benchmark run.
30 Minutes isn't really a big deal on a 600 mile road trip in a day.
There would be plenty of power if we'd build more nuclear power plants and recycle fuel efficiently.
Or if the powers that be would let some of the technology that has been held back from the world come out and play.
You don't need a crazy new hookup to your house for EV charging.
Most modern decent houses already can support it if they have enough space for a 50A circuit to be added to the electrical panel (220V) and be done with it.
We are pretty much looking at the same power as running your AC unit on heating mode or a dual oven stove.
Now as far as the grid goes, that's another story, significant changes would need to be made.
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