Gunsmithing Haas TL-1 Opinions

[dakor]

I am looking for your opinions on the Haas TL-1 CNC Lathe. Haas TL-1 | Haas Automation®, Inc. | CNC Machine Tools

I am currently running a Grizzly 14x40 manual lathe and I am looking to upgrade in the next year if possible. I do not know G code and I was impressed by how their software on this lathe makes it easier at least in the demo video it does. I like the fact it can be used in manual mode if need be. I am looking at using it for barrel and action work.

Haas TL-1 Demo Video

Haas TL1 Demo - YouTube - YouTube

 

[bohem]

It does gunsmithing well, Chad spent some time discussing his feelings for the TL-1.

The only benefit that I see buying a TL-1 over a 5 year old HTC (big boy machine) is the opportunity to run it on 220v single phase instead of having to get 3ph power into your home shop.

The onboard CAM in the controller is nice but it's not necessary, G-code is straight forward stuff.

I was looking at one as well but quickly realized that I can buy a turret tool machine with major capability for the same money.

 

[flounderv2]

If I'm not mistaken I thought I heard a rumor that Hass was planning on removing the wheels for manual functionality from the new models so you may want to look into that.

 

[Terry Cross]

If I'm not mistaken I thought I heard a rumor that Hass was planning on removing the wheels for manual functionality from the new models so you may want to look into that.

They already have.

 

[jonaddis84]

Seems there is a fine line between the TL1/2 and turning centers. If you want to be able to dial your barrel in the way most do on a manual with inboard/outboard spiders, the HAAS is one of the few you can do it. If you dont mind buying a True Bore Alignment System, you could get away with it on anything that would install on.

I would personally have a hard time buying a TL1, sure you are gaining speed, but you still have to change tools, set the tool holder and figure out a good way to hold a reamer. Im with bohem here that Id rather get something used with a turret. You will probably spend less money, and be able to do things in far less time. However, the 3 phase thing is a huge deal, Im not sure if you can run CNC stuff off of a phase converter, Im 99% sure using a VFD is out of the question.

Dont worry about not knowing how to actually write code, you just need software like Mastercam or similar, and a basic knowledge of G code to modify.

 

[Shane C.]

We have been using TL-2s, for 10 years now and have been very happy with them. The newest is just a couple months old (came with hand wheels, don't use them much). The larger spindle through hole and the extra center to center distance on the 2's are really helpful if you can afford the difference.

 

[300sniper]

As recently as a few months ago, the TL-1s still came standard with hand wheels. From what I understand, you could order them without them and get faster rapid speeds.

As mentioned above and after studying this over the last year or two, the only benefit I can see the TL series is if you are running it in a garage and off single phase power. Using a residential panel/subpanel is proving to be a pain in the ass to try and power up a 20hp 3 phase machine....


And no matter how many times I read the dimensions and weight of a 40hp phase converter idler, the reality of the physical size of it didn't hit me until I had it in front of me on a pallet.

 

[300sniper]

Seems there is a fine line between the TL1/2 and turning centers. If you want to be able to dial your barrel in the way most do on a manual with inboard/outboard spiders, the HAAS is one of the few you can do it. If you dont mind buying a True Bore Alignment System, you could get away with it on anything that would install on.

I would personally have a hard time buying a TL1, sure you are gaining speed, but you still have to change tools, set the tool holder and figure out a good way to hold a reamer. Im with bohem here that Id rather get something used with a turret. You will probably spend less money, and be able to do things in far less time. However, the 3 phase thing is a huge deal, Im not sure if you can run CNC stuff off of a phase converter, Im 99% sure using a VFD is out of the question.

Dont worry about not knowing how to actually write code, you just need software like Mastercam or similar, and a basic knowledge of G code to modify.

You can get the TL series with a 4 way auto tool turret. I have visited a shop using a couple TL-1's in a production environment (something they admitted never intending to use them for but they worked great for them). They were using a two-way gang tool setup on each station of the turret for 8 total tools.

 

[jonaddis84]

Mother of GOD, are you running your VMC off that? How many amps do you have to supply that beast with?

 

[jasonk]

What a beast! You know when it comes with holes to run chain through for lifting that you're not fooling around anymore.

 

[LRI]

Robert, your mission if you choose to accept:

1. Steal power company service truck
2. Patch into 3 phase 1 mile from your house
3. Make millions.

This will self destruct in 5, 4, 3, 2, ......

 

[dakor]

Some good info here. I am not set on a machine and this is new territory for me so if you guys think there is something that would be a better bang for the buck could you post the machine here or send me a pm I would really appreciate it! I do not know about the 3 phase in my shop. I have a dedicated 100 amp service for it that ties direct into the transformer in my yard and does not go through the house I have a rural property. I would have to have an electrician come out and tell me if I could run 3 phase. For a chuck I was thinking about going with a true bore alignment system, a 6 or 4 jaw chuck, or come up with something else I am looking for suggestions on that to. I am thinking about moving away from the spider I want to run carbide and I do not like that added weight on the lathe from the spider when running at higher speeds I know I do not like it now on the lathe I have anyway at slower speeds it works great. If I do go with this Hass I still am undecided between the TL-1 or the TL-2. The T2 is bigger but I do not know if I need it for barrel work.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

dakor

Give me a call and I'll tell you about my experience with a TL-1.

 

[dakor]

Thank you Dave. I will give you call early next week the weekends are short and I don't want to bother you over the weekend.

 

[Dennis_in_VA]

Hey Dave, can we make it a conference call??????

I've been looking at the TL for a while but with the price point of a new one being that of a good used turning center.... I'm stuck.

The building I rent has single phase but a call to the right people and I could very easily have 3 phase plumbed in.

 

[300sniper]

The building I rent has single phase but a call to the right people and I could very easily have 3 phase plumbed in.

Better price it out first, and make sure you include everything. At least commercial will probably be easier but I will be right around $5k into converting single to 3 phase, and my labor is free (minus beers and tri-tip).

 

[Dennis_in_VA]

Yeah it will cost me 4-5K but my landlord is willing to comp me for the upgrade.

You gunna try and run a HAAS with that HUGE rotary?

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Here's my take on things and it's not meant to offend anyone. As the saying goes there's different ways to skin a cat. I'm a craftsman. 30+ years doing this. 1 1/4 man shop right now. With a little luck I may get to be a 1 3/4 man shop but that's as big as I'll get. I made that decision many many years ago. It was a control thing. I once had a highly skilled guy here building rifles. You could not distinguish his work from mine. The big, but, was he built many of the rifles(the fun part) and I put my name on them. That just wasn't the way I wanted to do things. We decided to part ways while we were still friends. I look at the TL-1 an aid to the craftsman not as a replacement which is what I consider a full on CNC. As I said I don't mean to offend anyone it's just my perspective as a craftsman. A TL-1 allows me to produce high quality work in larger numbers. I've been in too many facilities that want and try to work in the craftsman style but because they use machining centers they run right past, over top of critical processes and the product suffers. Example: I have my hands on the finish reamer for every cut taken. That gives me feed back that no amount of planning and inspection can give you in an enclosed CNC with an auto tool changer. Eventually the machine will out run the operators powers of observation and who is usually inexperienced in the ways of the craftsman. QC starts at the machine not in the inspection department. Speaking of tool changers. I use an Aloris tool post. I'll bet I can change tools every bit as fast as an auto tool changer. It also allows me to have about 20 different tools available in an instant.

If you're going to be a manufacture of multiple and a various assortment of parts then by all means go machining center. If on the other hand you're trying to increase the production of the craftsman stay with the TL-1. It is no slouch if you want to use it in a production environment either. A little imagination and creativity and yes hard work can go a long way in a short amount of time.

Feel free to give me a call.

 

[Dennis_in_VA]

Thanks for your input Dave.

 

[300sniper]

Here's my take on things and it's not meant to offend anyone. As the saying goes there's different ways to skin a cat. I'm a craftsman. 30+ years doing this. 1 1/4 man shop right now. With a little luck I may get to be a 1 3/4 man shop but that's as big as I'll get. I made that decision many many years ago. It was a control thing. I once had a highly skilled guy here building rifles. You could not distinguish his work from mine. The big, but, was he built many of the rifles(the fun part) and I put my name on them. That just wasn't the way I wanted to do things. We decided to part ways while we were still friends. I look at the TL-1 an aid to the craftsman not as a replacement which is what I consider a full on CNC. As I said I don't mean to offend anyone it's just my perspective as a craftsman. A TL-1 allows me to produce high quality work in larger numbers. I've been in too many facilities that want and try to work in the craftsman style but because they use machining centers they run right past, over top of critical processes and the product suffers. Example: I have my hands on the finish reamer for every cut taken. That gives me feed back that no amount of planning and inspection can give you in an enclosed CNC with an auto tool changer. Eventually the machine will out run the operators powers of observation and who is usually inexperienced in the ways of the craftsman. QC starts at the machine not in the inspection department. Speaking of tool changers. I use an Aloris tool post. I'll bet I can change tools every bit as fast as an auto tool changer. It also allows me to have about 20 different tools available in an instant.

If you're going to be a manufacture of multiple and a various assortment of parts then by all means go machining center. If on the other hand you're trying to increase the production of the craftsman stay with the TL-1. It is no slouch if you want to use it in a production environment either. A little imagination and creativity and yes hard work can go a long way in a short amount of time.

Feel free to give me a call.

I've welded Jeep frames back together using a couple batteries, jumper cables, vice-grips and some 6011 rod miles from the nearest paved road. It works but sure wouldn't intentionally choose it over my Miller 251 MIG. A craftsman is a craftsman, regardless of the tools he chooses to use.

 

[Dennis_in_VA]

MacGuyver!!!!!!

 

[19Scout77]

Here's my take on things and it's not meant to offend anyone. As the saying goes there's different ways to skin a cat. I'm a craftsman. 30+ years doing this. 1 1/4 man shop right now. With a little luck I may get to be a 1 3/4 man shop but that's as big as I'll get. I made that decision many many years ago. It was a control thing. I once had a highly skilled guy here building rifles. You could not distinguish his work from mine. The big, but, was he built many of the rifles(the fun part) and I put my name on them. That just wasn't the way I wanted to do things. We decided to part ways while we were still friends. I look at the TL-1 an aid to the craftsman not as a replacement which is what I consider a full on CNC. As I said I don't mean to offend anyone it's just my perspective as a craftsman. A TL-1 allows me to produce high quality work in larger numbers. I've been in too many facilities that want and try to work in the craftsman style but because they use machining centers they run right past, over top of critical processes and the product suffers. Example: I have my hands on the finish reamer for every cut taken. That gives me feed back that no amount of planning and inspection can give you in an enclosed CNC with an auto tool changer. Eventually the machine will out run the operators powers of observation and who is usually inexperienced in the ways of the craftsman. QC starts at the machine not in the inspection department. Speaking of tool changers. I use an Aloris tool post. I'll bet I can change tools every bit as fast as an auto tool changer. It also allows me to have about 20 different tools available in an instant.

If you're going to be a manufacture of multiple and a various assortment of parts then by all means go machining center. If on the other hand you're trying to increase the production of the craftsman stay with the TL-1. It is no slouch if you want to use it in a production environment either. A little imagination and creativity and yes hard work can go a long way in a short amount of time.

Feel free to give me a call.

What do you mean Dave? Dont you know, my Iphone has sick gunsmithing apps!!!