hmmm..... odd grouping

[Ring]

100y
3100 FPS
123 Amax
48gr RE-19 powder
260
savage action
Bell & Carlson Tactical Medalist A2
screw torqued to 40in pounds
RP-260 Brass

flash debured, primer pockets uniformed
CCI primers
groups were shot 6 to 10 min appart.
prone, bipod, rear bag
i can say for 100% all shots were steady when shot... no pulls


any ideas what would open the group like that?




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this was test load from last week



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[Ring]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

no input on why the group would do that?

 

[BBeyer]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

Why do you think these groups are odd?

 

[jcallan]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

I can say that in my 260 when firing Rem brass (and others) for the first time the groups will open up and usually have a mysterious flyer. When I shoot the brass after fire forming I have no grouping issues. You may also try RL15 for the 120-123 class bullets.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

The second image shows that none of the charge weights are operating as an OCW load.

The small group in the first image still ahs a 40% chance of being "pure luck" and the bottom group looks similar to groups in the whole seceeond image.

So, what question are you asking?

 

[wfjames22]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

I agree with Mitch, what exactly is the question??

Looks like you need to keep working on your load development.

 

[Snipers]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

I would spring for a box or two of commercially made match ammunition. If you continue to get groups as posted, I would let someone else see what they can do with the rifle. If the same results - I would check your scope, mount, bedding, and the rifle's general condition.

I'm not into 260, but you might want to check the barrel twist and bullet weight

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

I see signs of 2 grouping, inconsistent technique, cheek weld issues and possibly some stock clearance issues.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

I see what looks like a fairly consistant 1.25 MOA rifle with that load.

 

[BBeyer]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

Fuzzball has the answer to the 64 dollar question. These groups are not odd just large.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

L to R, Top to Bottom.

Without watching you shoot here's what I see. JMHO

Group 1 Almost a good group. If you remove the shot just right of center you have a classic 2 group. This could be a seating depth issue. Or Cheek weld.

Group 2 Looks like inconsistent technique and you reward pull into your should is inconsistent. Also, you're pushing your cheek hard right when you weld.

Group 3 Looks like you are starting to settle in and is not a bat representation of a clover leaf. If you play with seating depth you might have something.

Group 4 This looks like a barrel heating up and touching the stock. That or you are laying on the comb inconsistently.
However, if you refine your technique this could be your load. Remove the vertical and you have something.

Group 5 ( see remarks for group 3 )

( this leads me to believe you just blew it on group 4 and it is your load )

Group 6 Is almost classic 2 grouping. Seating depth issues or cheek weld and rearward pressure inconsistency. Notice it is similar to group 2 and opening up even more than group3 and 5.

Refine your technique and check barrel clearance with your stock and I think you are good to go with group 4.

 

[BBeyer]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

Amazing what some people can tell looking at a half dozen groups. To me they look like typical Savage not too good groups.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

I've yanked on a trigger or two... just babbling from previous experience.

 

[BBeyer]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

I see you shoot NBRSA, what do you shoot for a gun there. They are all group shooters arn"t they? You up there with Tony Boyer yet, dont feel bad there are not meny that are. I shoot just about all score, mainly the six power classes. There is almost no group shooting around New England, other than informal get togethers and experamenting with different components.
You wont get too far yanking on triggers, those two ounce Jewells just need to be breathed on hard. LOL

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

I shot 1K BR... It was a "bucket list" thing. Went to nationals in a few yrs back and did remarkably well considering the company I was in.

I shot the 6.5X284 I averaged around 6-7" groups consistently. That was shooting in Beyers CO. Where the wind is well.. it would be better to count the non windy days.

I shot me a 4.1" group and that was my highlight for the year.

I've turned the corner and decided to try the tactical thing. It applies better to my hunting situations. I just need to find some rifle only matches with in a close proximity to get me the practice I need to go compete at some of these higher level comps.

 

[LRCampos]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

.

I dont see any "big" issue on the groups. Just so so groups from a factory Savage rifle.

May be, changing bullets or powder, you can significantly shring them. I think you have to continue load development

 

[BBeyer]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

Sounds great, our last 1k range was doomed when they built US 1 through just about half way between the benches and the targets And US 1 has been there quite a while. WE do have a 600 yd range but that may be gone soon.

 

[metal2meat]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

Just my thoughts.... 5 groups show evidence of vertical stringing, making me think could be putting some inconsistent pressures on the stock and you could be getting some torque on the stock. I see some picking on savage rifles here, but the two I have (243win and 6.5x284) shoot great. Your're close to something with the first group, I think it might be more shooting form than load. Hope it works out keep us posted.

 

[Ring]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The second image shows that none of the charge weights are operating as an OCW load.

The small group in the first image still ahs a 40% chance of being "pure luck" and the bottom group looks similar to groups in the whole seceeond image.

So, what question are you asking? </div></div>

same load both groups.. just 10min apart...

odly enough, this is the same load at 550y



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[gvanhyning]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERGER KING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can say that in my 260 when firing Rem brass (and others) for the first time the groups will open up and usually have a mysterious flyer. When I shoot the brass after fire forming I have no grouping issues. You may also try RL15 for the 120-123 class bullets. </div></div>+1 ... I would find a different powder. H4350, RE15, or Varget to name a few. I shoot a 6.5x47, use the OCW for load development. Normally have a really good load with just two trips to the range. First trip is finding the charge weight and second trip is fine tuning the bullet seating depth.

 

[Wardy]

Re: hmmm..... odd grouping

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERGER KING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can say that in my 260 when firing Rem brass (and others) for the first time the groups will open up and usually have a mysterious flyer. When I shoot the brass after fire forming I have no grouping issues. You may also try RL15 for the 120-123 class bullets. </div></div>

Mine usually does/has done the same exact thing and I often figured it was me...until I read this post I Have never fireformed my brass and usually just FL size whem I reload..
Sorry for hijacking your thread....here's what i worked up 2 weeks ago...
140 Amax 40g H4350 Stock Remy...I'm happy