We switched bullets in same barrels and never had any blows ups or issues. Smk been greatyea,the 285’s were awesome but then even they started having issues
I’ve shot 1500-2000 Berger’s now since going back and none has given me an issue in the same barrels that the 180eldm was blowing up 25-40% in.
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Range Report Hornady 147 ELDM blowing up
- Thread starter hic28
- Start date
Exactly. This is their can o’ worms to address and the longer they stay silent on it or deny it, the more damage they do to themselves. I also happen to like Hornady for all the reasons you mention. Add that they really pushed to provided affordable match grade rounds for those that reload.
But they cannot stay silent without doing themselves damage.
My opinion.
they are aware of this thread and other cases,
They are choosing not to address it,
it has been said they consider the issue, our problem as in we are over spinning or using something in a way not designed, but they are not publicly acknowledging this issue...
Other than the victims they really are not facing any backlash from it, and keeping their head down and staying quiet gives them deniability, which is how this going.
They know, they see, they have chosen not to comment
They are choosing not to address it,
it has been said they consider the issue, our problem as in we are over spinning or using something in a way not designed, but they are not publicly acknowledging this issue...
Other than the victims they really are not facing any backlash from it, and keeping their head down and staying quiet gives them deniability, which is how this going.
They know, they see, they have chosen not to comment
And they are losing my business with that attitude.
Is it possible Hornady is addressing this internally for future lots? (I have no idea how though......) Or am I just being naive?
I want to trust them because of all the good they’ve done the industry. I also don’t want to buy crap bullets.
I want to trust them because of all the good they’ve done the industry. I also don’t want to buy crap bullets.
I had 5 of 50 153gn A-Tips blow up during a match, shooting ~2980fps out of a 1:7 5R Bartlein barrel. I contacted Hornady and they asked me to send in bullets from that lot and asked all of the above questions. I was told that 91) 6.5 PRC SAAMI spec is 1:8 twist and they do not consider anything faster as normal, (2) Hornady bullets should not be shot in any combination that causes RPM to exceed 290,000, and (3) that my barrel must be old and worn because it had ~1100 rounds through at the time of the problem. They told me that they tested the bullets in a 1:8 twist barrel and did not have a problem. They would not tell me anything else about the test conditions.
I pointed out that the box for the 153gn ATips says 1:8 twist MINIMUM and did not specify a maximum, and that the load data they publish for 6.5 PRC shows speeds in excess of 3000. I asked where they had published any information on maximum rpm or anything related, and they could not tell me. When I said that I was shooting the Berger 153.5 Hybrids with no problem, I was told that Berger must be using a thicker jacket.
The 2 support people that I talked to were very clearly aware of the problem and immediately shifted to telling me why my rifle was the problem and not the bullet design. My impression is that support personnel have been told not to admit fault on these issues.
Hornady was not willing to provide a refund, but they did agree to exchange my 153gn ATips with 135gn Atips, which I have shot without a problem in my 1:8 twist 260 Rem.
I'm not saying that shooters aren't having problem with the 147 ELDM. However, I've put 110 rounds of Hornady 6.5 CM factory loads with the 147 ELDMs at an MV of 2723 FPS. I haven't had any problems so far; even with 1:7 twist barrel.
Here is an 8 shot group at 100 yards. I shot it out to 1000 yards this last weekend. The only problems encountered was with the nut behind the buttstock
Here is an 8 shot group at 100 yards. I shot it out to 1000 yards this last weekend. The only problems encountered was with the nut behind the buttstock
I find this funny. 110 rounds. Lol
also, the problem hasn’t been with the 147 at slow speeds under 2700. They were designed for the 6.5prc to be around 3k and that where they are failing at 40%+
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So 110 rounds is a low number but what is so funny about it? And pardon me for just supplying a little data for people to use.
I'm not trying to persuade anyone either way on whether to use the bullet or not.
If I were going to try to push it at 3K or higher, then I'd probably avoid the bullet as well.
If I have problems in a few hundred rounds down the road then I'll let everyone know. If I don't I'll let them know that as well.
I've heard that there have been a few problems out of the barrels with 1:7 twists with 2700 FPS speeds. I'm just letting everyone know that hasn't been my experience so far.
So excuse me for providing information that hopefully some folks can use.
In my 260 I was getting them to 2800 and approximately 1-12 we’re going poof.
I had shot well over a thousand of them in an older and new barrel before I started getting sudden issues after getting a new lot.
@Longshot231 report back after 1k rounds please.....
But there's proof from A LOT of credible shooters on the 147gr or about any bullet in the ELD-M line, have a tendecing to go MIA once in flight.
The amount of peope that shot the Hornady Precision Hunter Match, that switch to berger or another bullet, after shooting Hornady at the NF ELR Match (1.5months prior)... was hilarious.
But Hornady doesn't give a s*. They've seen this thread. And like always, blame the shooter instead.... #getyourpopcorn
.But there's proof from A LOT of credible shooters on the 147gr or about any bullet in the ELD-M line, have a tendecing to go MIA once in flight.
The amount of peope that shot the Hornady Precision Hunter Match, that switch to berger or another bullet, after shooting Hornady at the NF ELR Match (1.5months prior)... was hilarious.
But Hornady doesn't give a s*. They've seen this thread. And like always, blame the shooter instead.... #getyourpopcorn
6 pages of problem and a guy with 110 rounds under his belt is posting, lol
Again it was easy to get this video I only tried once, why because I knew when it would happy, set your watch to the failure
Factory Ammo
Again it was easy to get this video I only tried once, why because I knew when it would happy, set your watch to the failure
Factory Ammo
@Longshot231 report back after 1k rounds please....
But there's proof from A LOT of credible shooters on the 147gr or about any bullet in the ELD-M line, have a tendecing to go MIA once in flight.
The amount of peope that shot the Hornady Precision Hunter Match, that switch to berger or another bullet, after shooting Hornady at the NF ELR Match (1.5months prior)... was hilarious.
But Hornady doesn't give a s*. They've seen this thread. And like always, blame the shooter instead.... #getyourpopcorn
I'll be glad to report back when I've past the 1K mark. I'm just reporting what I have observed. At no time did I say that this was the best bullet ever made or that it defies gravity, cross winds and picks up speed on the way to the target.
This last weekend, I was able to hit a 4" X 8" steel plate at 1000 yards a few times. Heck, even my misses were darn close. I was impressed.
Now if the 111th round falls apart on me, I will report that.
What puzzles me is why anyone would not appreciate any data, even if it is only a few rounds.
Like I said, the barrel is a 1:7 twist and after ordering it, I discovered the complaints about this bullet disintegrating. I was really worried about going with that twist afterwards considering I also purchased 2000 rounds. If you want to laugh at me for purchasing so much ammo without testing it; that's okay.
But look at it this way, I can test that 2000 rounds and let everyone know of my results. And I'm doing it at my expense. And I'm glad to do it.
If I don't have any problems with the other 1890 rounds then it looks like I made a good decision. If things start going bad with the remainder, some folks can then profit from my mistake.
I don't doubt that there are a lot of credible reports. Nevertheless, maybe we can all find other factors causing the disentrigation.
For example, my barrel is a Kreiger 27" 6.5 CM with a 1:7 twist. So if nobody else is having any problems with the same bullet at the same speed in the same barrel that may be significant.
If other people are having problems with a different manufacturer's barrel with the same twist with the same speed that would give us something to go on.
The more data the better.
Hey keep shooting the 147 ELDM.
It will put less pressure on the Berger.
I shot over 6000 without a problem. 4 different barrels....then crap happened. Same load, and barrels. POOF , POOF, good luck.
It will put less pressure on the Berger.
I shot over 6000 without a problem. 4 different barrels....then crap happened. Same load, and barrels. POOF , POOF, good luck.
Haven't had the OP's exact issue with rounds blowing up, but on the general issue of QC issues with Hornady ammo, I have seen that. Recently had an issue with 6.5 120gr ELDM getting stuck in my chamber and apparently out of spec.
www.snipershide.com
Kinda' disturbing to hear the frequency of cases where folks are getting the vibe that Hornady is just blaming the customer vs really digging into the issue. Now in this case, they were totally cool to me and made me whole by replacing the ammo with a case of 140gr ELDM's, which appear to chamber in my Proof barrel just fine. But they also denied there was any QC issue with the ammo, even though all the evidence seems to point to the ammo not the barrel.
Gunsmithing - Help diagnose an ammo issue
Ran into an interesting problem at the range today, seen it happen to others, never had this happen in my years of shooting. Bolt stuck on a live round, went forward but wouldn't go fully into battery, also couldn't open it. The round was a Hornady factory 120gr ELD-M, barrel is a Proof 6.5...
www.snipershide.com
Kinda' disturbing to hear the frequency of cases where folks are getting the vibe that Hornady is just blaming the customer vs really digging into the issue. Now in this case, they were totally cool to me and made me whole by replacing the ammo with a case of 140gr ELDM's, which appear to chamber in my Proof barrel just fine. But they also denied there was any QC issue with the ammo, even though all the evidence seems to point to the ammo not the barrel.
I’m now having an occasional 130 eldm blow up now.
Thankfully it see at a lower rate than 180 and 147’s.
I have about 400 left, Then I’m switching to RDF or Berger’s.
Thankfully it see at a lower rate than 180 and 147’s.
I have about 400 left, Then I’m switching to RDF or Berger’s.
What barrel do you have? Manufacturer? Length? Cartridge? Twist? Muzzle velocity?
IMHO, this is relevant information with respect to any reports of the bullets disintegrating.
Interesting. You're getting close to the 3000 FPS threshold. Could the speed have something to to with it? Obvious question, I know, but should still be explored.
That seems to be a common factor in the ELDMs disintegrating.
Well the 147’s blew up on me at 2800 and a 130 should have no problem whatsoever at 3000 considering the 6.5 saum and 6.5-284 have been around for years pushing 130’s 100-200 fps faster.
I was just shooting a 6.5 saum GAP build last Saturday and his Berger’s weren’t blowing up.
I’ve also seen the 285 have issues in a short barrel 338 NM at a leisurely 2600 fps lately.
Well the 147’s blew up on me at 2800 and a 130 should have no problem whatsoever at 3000 considering the 6.5 saum and 6.5-284 have been around for years pushing 130’s 100-200 fps faster.
I was just shooting a 6.5 saum GAP build last Saturday and his Berger’s weren’t blowing up.
I’ve also seen the 285 have issues in a short barrel 338 NM at a leisurely 2600 fps lately.
Even more interesting.
I remember a couple years back, they were putting the blame on proof barrels and the grooves it had (4-groove) with 7/ 7.5” twist
Then It happened with Bartlein 5R’s 8” twist. Still putting the blame on the shooter.
A-Tips are blowing up too...
Then It happened with Bartlein 5R’s 8” twist. Still putting the blame on the shooter.
A-Tips are blowing up too...
I had a few 190 ATips pop.
I’ve shot 1,300+ Berger 190LRHT’s and not a single one has shown any funny business.
I did some load development yesterday with the 147gr ELD-Ms, fired 20 shots which all appeared fine, all 20 shoots registered on the chrony just fine.
On closer inspection of my targets one of the groups that looked to be 3 shots into 1 ragged hole looks suspiciously like 2 shots only.
Need to get a load sorted out for a match in a couple of weeks, I'll pay close attention to whether these make it to the target or not.....
Looks like the 144gr Bergers might be on the horizon for me, hopefully can cancel my ELD-M order.
On closer inspection of my targets one of the groups that looked to be 3 shots into 1 ragged hole looks suspiciously like 2 shots only.
Need to get a load sorted out for a match in a couple of weeks, I'll pay close attention to whether these make it to the target or not.....
Looks like the 144gr Bergers might be on the horizon for me, hopefully can cancel my ELD-M order.
I bought 500 from Midsouth this summer and no issues. Nothing in the world is 100% guaranteed. Not a single Chevy, Ford or even Nissan or Toyota has ever produced a car or truck that didn't have some kind of failure at one time, but that hasn't scarred people away from buying another one. Its eventually going to happen sometime, somewhere.....with anything made with human hands. I've never had any issues in my RPR 6.5 Creedmoor with them. And even if I did, its not going to make me stop using them. Berger and Sierra and even Lapua could also have this issue in the future, its just the law of averages. If anyone is scarred of them, send them to me and i'll shoot them for you. LOL!Yikes. I bought 1600 from Midsouth. I have shot about 5 ro 600 of them. No issues yet, but everytime I see this thread I cringe. I am shooting 3020fps out of a 1:8" button rifled barrel at 6000ft asl. Hoping I'm threading the needle and get through all 1600 without issue....
Nobody that doesn't have problems is going to make a post about it. For every guy who blows them up there's an unknown number (I'm going to guess majority, honestly) of people out there that shoot them without issue. I've shot bullets in my guns/barrels that were blowing up in others' at alarming rates and not had any problems. Checked at 25yd for comet tails, etc.. etc...
There's aspects that are from the bullets, the barrels, and the conditions and none of it is cut & dry. I suspect that's some of why you don't hear much out of any manufacturers about it.
There's aspects that are from the bullets, the barrels, and the conditions and none of it is cut & dry. I suspect that's some of why you don't hear much out of any manufacturers about it.
I'm also sure the majority of people are not having problems with them.... but really don't give a damn about that- cause I am. The barrel is probably playing a part- the count is getting up there, but it's not done yet. Not going to replace my barrels sooner just to save a little on bullets. Enough people are reporting it with standard spec barrels-
Hornady has other bullet lines that have not been a problem and are still working great, but if they wont address the problem then I'm done with those as well.
Hornady has other bullet lines that have not been a problem and are still working great, but if they wont address the problem then I'm done with those as well.
Since Hornady doesn't seem to be acknowledging an issue, maybe those that are having problems should go to the next level and do some detective work. Surely out of all the skills and people that are here working in the tech industry, someone has or can get access to a sonic checker. Measure the copper cladding on the projectiles and see if anything seems out of the ordinary there. Others that are having a bad batch could make some ballistic gel blocks and shot them in hopes of capturing the fragments once they have come apart but not mangled up so badly. Then maybe inspecting those pieces might reveal something a sonic checker didnt. There may be air pockets inside the lead cores causing them to be out of balance, or the lead core could be out of concentric with the copper shell. A lot to learn and see and possibly determine the true causes....just a thought!
I had problems with multiple ELD and ATips
I’ve seen the standard response they give.
I went back to Berger’s and other brands.
Now I don’t have problems.
I have now shot probably 600+ Hornady 147's in a shorty (18") 6.5CM and I have had nothing but excellent results with them. I think we could probably summarize this entire thread as:
I took a mule deer yesterday with a 147 @ 180 yards and the terminal results were quite satisfactory. Pencil sized entrance, silver dollar sized exit, down within 50 yards.
For me the 147's work well and boxed ammo is relatively easy to find and affordable. However, it is not the ubiquitous rock solid bullet like the .30 175gr SMK that has worked in every .308 made in the last 60 years.
- If you are shooting 147's fast from a 6.5PRC or hot loaded 6.5CM, or possible even a "tight" barrel, odds are you are going to have problems, and Hornady at this point is not going to admit any fault of their own.
- If you are shooting them slower (<2700fps?) it's quite possible you will not have any problems, and they will group quite nicely for most people.
I took a mule deer yesterday with a 147 @ 180 yards and the terminal results were quite satisfactory. Pencil sized entrance, silver dollar sized exit, down within 50 yards.
For me the 147's work well and boxed ammo is relatively easy to find and affordable. However, it is not the ubiquitous rock solid bullet like the .30 175gr SMK that has worked in every .308 made in the last 60 years.
Okay..... And even if you did fine something Hornady would say bs and your methods are flawed and inconclusive so what did you provev that a ton of people don't already know chief?
You're automatically assuming the bullets are the problem. Whether they own up to it if the bullets are found to be the problem or not is irrelevant. There are 10's of thousands of people that are shooting them that are not having problems. Maybe Hornady is smarter than people are giving them credit for also. What if the main common denominator is aftermarket barrels, for instance. And those manufacturers have changed something in their processes they aren't aware are causing a problem. The point is that not doing anything beyond complaining wont fix it. If you could present data to Hornady that indicates they have a true problem, you have eliminated other variables from the equation to isolate it. If they do or dont do anything at that time, that's on them. But at least you will know that you arent causing the problem, the barrel isn't causing it or anything in your reloading practices arent either. It's just a simple process of elimination to know for sure.
Only eldm we are running anymore is the 140. No issues with these so far. 147 is a hard pass for me. I’ve moved on with all of my other bullets.
They took 2 months to replace my bullets. I just wanted a refund. They pretended they knew nothing about this happening. I’m not trying to shit on Hornady. I use a lot of their products with satisfaction but this is pitiful how they acted toward me and handled the situation.
Send me a few of your projectiles from the batch you are having problems with and I'll dissect them in the mill or lathe and see if there is anything weird going on inside them. Can't hurt to cut into them and look.....
Dude, you honestly think Hornady hasn't seen this thread? They have, and they're not doing shit about it. Sorta what the left is doing in regards to Hunter Bidens Laptop...
There was a massive posts on this exact problem on BookFace after the NF ELR Match and of course, Hornady reps saw that and didn't say a f*ing thing...
I was looking at shooting A-Tips in m 300NM for that NF ELR Match, then I stopped and told myself, I would rather win the match with Berger Bullets.... and guess what happen?....
The bullets are the problem. My “aftermarket” barrels are by most opinions the best barrels made (Bartlien) and I have 4 of them that have all had factory hornady 6.5prc bullets blow up.
it’s amazing when I push a 144 berger at higher speeds with no problems. Really makes you wonder
it’s amazing when I push a 144 berger at higher speeds with no problems. Really makes you wonder
and that’s the problem. Most are shooting factory loaded ammo that was marketed to be pushed at 3k. Reports are plentiful that the 147 bullets are popping from 2700 and up
There’s probably some truth there but more and more hunters are becoming long range enthusiasts and who shoots more bullets...several fuds that buy a box or two of ammo per year or a match/long range shooter who shoots thousands of projectiles in a season?
I like Hornady, I haven’t had a problem yet but don’t run their bullets in a magnum or past 2800 fps. I will have shot 3-5K of their ELD-m’s between my 6.5 Creedmoors and my 223 Ackley trainer this year and I’ll be pissed if they keep ignoring these issues people are having. I was at the NF ELR match when people’s bullets were blowing up.
Them ignoring the issue doesn’t give me warm and fuzzies. Wonder what conversations are happening behind closed doors about this and if any steps are being taken to fix it?
It’s fairly obvious that you did not bother to read this whole thread and just jumped in with your opinion. Read the WHOLE thread and you’ll see that many are having problems, with factory loaded 6.5 Creedmoor, in factory rifles and barrels that have shot fine previously, at speeds sometimes under 2700 FPS.
This is not about bad barrels or spinning them too fast or even about complainers. Many of the people posting issues in this thread are very experienced and shoot many thousands of rounds per year. This is about a manufacturing issue created somehow by Hornady and bullets that were obviously on the edge of performance by design to keep materials and manufacturing costs low so that they could keep costs down for the consumer. That is admirable and a few years ago, you wouldn’t find a single complaint about the hornady bullets. It has recently become an issue. If Hornady cared enough to really investigate, they would dig into their current manufacturing process and find what minor item changed. Maybe they already know.
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