Not sure what cartridge you are speaking of as it's not obvious to me but I would guess the Creedmoor as it's what I have used lately. That being Hornady's proprietary cartridge and it being very popular has more to do with it than what I shoot. I don't see myself as that important. If they did cut the Creedmoor for the rest of the year that would be fine as I have a .308, .243 and 300WM as well which I can load for.
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Not sure what cartridge you are speaking of as it's not obvious to me but I would guess the Creedmoor as it's what I have used lately. That being Hornady's proprietary cartridge and it being very popular has more to do with it than what I shoot. I don't see myself as that important. If they did cut the Creedmoor for the rest of the year that would be fine as I have a .308, .243 and 300WM as well which I can load for.
Yes, I was referring to the 6.5 Creed, Hornady's namesake cartridge.
Personally, I contend the name of that particular cartridge has more to do with it (and the 140amax - the bullet used in Hornady's premier loading for the cartridge) remaining in current production than does it's popularity.
While I'm not arguing it's a great cartridge that enjoys a lot of popularity around here, clearly what snipershide members think is popular is different than what Hornady thinks is popular; case in point the 75, 80 and 162 amaxs.
Hornady doesn't run their business on what people think are popular. They have hard sales numbers and use that data and act accordingly.
I'm super glad Hornady is still making the 6.5mm 140gr HPBT & AMAX as well as the 123 A-Max, as I shoot a 260.
I think it sucks for 7mm shooters that 162 production is being stopped for a while. I'm definitely bummed about the 80gr A-Max, as that is my bullet of choice for my 223AI.
I understand the business decision side of it...but it still sucks.
Maybe they could have cut the 6.5mm 120gr A-Max and replaced that bullet on loaded ammo with the 123, and kept the 7mm 162gr A-Max rolling? Probably not, but a guy can postulate.
I think it sucks for 7mm shooters that 162 production is being stopped for a while. I'm definitely bummed about the 80gr A-Max, as that is my bullet of choice for my 223AI.
I understand the business decision side of it...but it still sucks.
Maybe they could have cut the 6.5mm 120gr A-Max and replaced that bullet on loaded ammo with the 123, and kept the 7mm 162gr A-Max rolling? Probably not, but a guy can postulate.
And without us(the people that buy said things from said dealers who buy said things from said distributors) Hornady doesn't make any money. No damage would've been done if they would've went public first. Hornady is still going to be a cash king because they are selling the things that will keep them profitable. No question about that. The attitude of telling the dealers first is what got them in trouble.
No damage has been done now and there is no trouble. Just a dealer who wanted to spread the word before Hornady did. The info would have been making it out to all soon enough but once it hits the internet before Hornady makes their announcement then it turns into the usual internet BS. People called on Monday and were told the truth. Hornady is a straight forward business. You see them telling their distributors as somehow hiding it from everyone else. What if you were the distributor and woke up and a company who you do alot of business with and have back orders with is telling everyone they are suspending some of those products. Wouldn't you be like "why didn't they tell me directly first"? I would as if you didn't see it or read it, as not everyone is neck deep in the internet first thing in the morning like some of us, then you would be getting emails and calls from customers who did and want to know what is happening and you wouldn't know. The word was rolling down the chain.
Guys, chill!! This is just a temporary thing, who knows for how long, though. It's easier to leave the machines in there current state than go to a makeready to start production on a new bullet, so the most popular bullets are being made right now.
I just supported my local gunshop and hornady... I should be set for the next 12 months on 105 amax. 
Nope. Our bullet choices and preferences are obviously very different. Shooting Prairie dogs with harder bullets like the 75 HPBT isn't even in the same relm as the 75 or 80 Amax. As to the Bergers, they are great bullets and I have run them side by side in 22-243 loads up to 3450fps, but the Amaxs just perform much much better on game with no loss in BC or Sectional Density for that matter.
(Litz G1 BCs @3000)
75 gr. BTHP G1 BC -.374
77 gr. CC G1 BC - .396
80 gr. VLD G1 BC- .459
75 gr. AMAX G1 BC- .447
80 gr. AMAX G1 BC- .486
At $20 or less per box I would say there is no doubt I am a fan, I'll keep my hopes up like everyone else, but that doesn't mean a guy can't be a little pissed.
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The facts are simple they are running the machines as fast as they can making every bullet they can each hour and they are selling out faster then they can box them up.
In the end they can't supply anything more then that and they can only bring in so much money. In the end someone's feelings will be hurt and im sure that's not what they want but you can't make everyone happy. They need to so what's right for the majority not the few.
I know they take feedback serious drop them emails asking them to reconsider your favorite products and maybe you will catch there ear.
In the end they can't supply anything more then that and they can only bring in so much money. In the end someone's feelings will be hurt and im sure that's not what they want but you can't make everyone happy. They need to so what's right for the majority not the few.
I know they take feedback serious drop them emails asking them to reconsider your favorite products and maybe you will catch there ear.
I have never done any comparison between the 75 amax and 75 bthp, but I can tell you from experience with 80 amax's vs other bthp/vld's(80 matchkings and berger vld's). They are much more explosive in my experience on hundreds of coyotes and prairie dogs. I have also shot a fair bit of 75 amax's with the same results.
The one and only benefit of the 75 bthp over the amax is that it will fit in an AR mag. Which I can give to shits about. The amax has a better more consistent meplat, much higher bc (.212 vs .183 g7), and the polymer tip will help with expansion at lower velocities, IE long shots on call shy coyotes. Which actually matters to me. All the ranchers who allow me free reign on their property to kill coyotes like it a whole lot better when you bring proof of the ones you kill, not just stories.
Stinks compared to what??? Every other bullet manufacturer that can't keep bullets on the shelf right now?
Atleast they are letting you know....call some of the other company's and ask for an eta on bullets, primers, and powders; are you going to give up on them and stop shooting all together??
I'm glad to see the 178 amax are not on the list. Took me a while to find a 1/4" load lol.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Hornady also makes a TON more products than some of these other companies...it sucks for sure though, but their bullets shoot awesome in everyone of the guns I own
With that being said I will say this. Even in times when things have been good (not all this craziness going on right now) I've experienced times when I couldn't get Bergers or Sierra's and Lapua's as well. Same goes for powder and primers.
The short range bench shooters really try and plan ahead as it seem for them it goes in cycles every couple of years for them where they cannot get powder or primers.
If memory serves me correctly one of the European powder companies is for sale and I believe it is Vihtavuori. If someone does not buy them in the next year or so (believe it's less time now) they are going to close they're doors and stop production all together from what I've gathered. For all the guys that shoot VV powder and I'm one of them you better have a back up plan/options!!!! Again Hornady is just suspending production on certain items. They're not closing they're doors and leaving us all hanging completely!
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
I don't blame them one bit as machine time is expensive and changing them over when they could be making bullets doesn't make sense when you can't keep up with demand.
This exact scenario is why I have always planned ahead and squirreled away reloading components. I could double or triple my shooting habits and be good for years to come. I own relatively few guns compared to some on here (definitively less expensive) but being ammo poor is not one of my problems in life. While I would love to have an S&B or Premier scope I made the decision long ago to focus on being able to shoot as much as I want first and then worry about equipment later. Times like those of the last 8 months have only supported my decision.
If some on here are not the type that plans ahead may I suggest that after things settle down a bit you start doing so. Instead of buying the latest scope or a new gun spend that $1K-$3K on loaded ammo or components so that when an interruption in the supply chain occurs you aren't left with an expensive club.
This exact scenario is why I have always planned ahead and squirreled away reloading components. I could double or triple my shooting habits and be good for years to come. I own relatively few guns compared to some on here (definitively less expensive) but being ammo poor is not one of my problems in life. While I would love to have an S&B or Premier scope I made the decision long ago to focus on being able to shoot as much as I want first and then worry about equipment later. Times like those of the last 8 months have only supported my decision.
If some on here are not the type that plans ahead may I suggest that after things settle down a bit you start doing so. Instead of buying the latest scope or a new gun spend that $1K-$3K on loaded ammo or components so that when an interruption in the supply chain occurs you aren't left with an expensive club.
amen jlficken
I agree
good advise for those starting out
putting all your eggs in one basket isn't very wise
get inexpensive equipment & lots of components to make it work
learn how to be proficient with it
who knows you may like the basics well enough that you don't feel the need to upgrade
one of my favorite rifles is also my cheapest
I agree
good advise for those starting out
putting all your eggs in one basket isn't very wise
get inexpensive equipment & lots of components to make it work
learn how to be proficient with it
who knows you may like the basics well enough that you don't feel the need to upgrade
one of my favorite rifles is also my cheapest
Notice all the ZMAX is on the list? Surely this is part of an ingenious Zombie plot to launch their takeover... How to practice now for the resistance??? Oh the horror!!!
Was on the phone late yesterday with one of the largest distributors of firearms and ammo and accessories etc......the guy I talk to there I've known for almost 20 years. He told me they have no ammo etc......and with that being said he told me that the only consistent place shipping them ammo is Hornady! (It's just when they get it in it's not enough to fill all the orders at one time and get caught up, so it's gone instantly.)
Hornady just cannot fill the demand for everyone else that is not.
He also told me they use to be the largest distributors for two different other brands of ammo. I'm not going to get into naming those brands as it doesn't matter at this point but the one brand he said he hasnt' seen any ammo from them in nearly a year.
So again guys give Hornady a break.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Hornady just cannot fill the demand for everyone else that is not.
He also told me they use to be the largest distributors for two different other brands of ammo. I'm not going to get into naming those brands as it doesn't matter at this point but the one brand he said he hasnt' seen any ammo from them in nearly a year.
So again guys give Hornady a break.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Hornady is an honest, forthright company working hard to get as many projectiles out to the market as possible.
Other companies are likely doing the same thing, but have not announced it to the public. They will keep my business for years to come.
Sorry to see so many people act so immaturely.
Other companies are likely doing the same thing, but have not announced it to the public. They will keep my business for years to come.
Sorry to see so many people act so immaturely.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
It's sad the gun industry was forced into such trying times. And we all need to be patient and bear with it. Whether Hornady made the right choice or not is beyond me, and I really don't care.
But when a person has come to rely on a product, and then they're suddenly told it's been put on hold, and now need to look elsewhere to replace that product, and in the mean time make a stand or statement on a gun forum, and then get called immature for doing so seems wrong to me.
Oh for fuck's sake! What are they making a stand or a statement against? More bullets? More ammo? Sorry to tell you, good business practices do not pander to the least common denominator. There is no wonder this country is so fucked up. You might want to watch the Atlas Shrugged movies, or better yet read the books. This whole thread is rife with immaturity and someone had the balls to point it out, get over it or better yet if the shoe fits wear it.
I was pretty roundly refuted about suggesting alternatives in regards to coyote hunting. Fine. I really don't give a shit. Yeah, a lot of this shit sounds like a bunch of fucking kids whining. "oh you don't know shit APC." "Oh you don't understand APC." I know and understand a good goddamned more than you think I do. I am not gonna argue semantics with a bunch of people who designed a rifle around one bullet, or are convinced that a fucking ballistic coefficient is what kills animals. Any bullet beats the hell out of NO bullet. Oliver Twist has cried for more and that is what Hornady is trying to provide. Now Olver is bitching because the MORE isn't chocolate cake!
Buy from Hornady, don't buy from Hornady, most of us don't give a shit. If Hornady succeeds in bringing more ammo and bullets to the market I will applaud them and buy the products, despite, not really being a huge Hornady product user in the past. All you blow hards will buy from them too, because you would rather shoot than sit at home waiting for others to catch up production. They will likely also have the cheapest product on the market, and you will buy them if you have half a brain.
I was tired of all the bitching 6 months ago. It amazes me how some people think that they are the most important people in the world. Ya'll might want to contact Dos Equis, they may have a place for you in a beer commercial.
I was pretty roundly refuted about suggesting alternatives in regards to coyote hunting. Fine. I really don't give a shit. Yeah, a lot of this shit sounds like a bunch of fucking kids whining. "oh you don't know shit APC." "Oh you don't understand APC." I know and understand a good goddamned more than you think I do. I am not gonna argue semantics with a bunch of people who designed a rifle around one bullet, or are convinced that a fucking ballistic coefficient is what kills animals. Any bullet beats the hell out of NO bullet. Oliver Twist has cried for more and that is what Hornady is trying to provide. Now Olver is bitching because the MORE isn't chocolate cake!
Buy from Hornady, don't buy from Hornady, most of us don't give a shit. If Hornady succeeds in bringing more ammo and bullets to the market I will applaud them and buy the products, despite, not really being a huge Hornady product user in the past. All you blow hards will buy from them too, because you would rather shoot than sit at home waiting for others to catch up production. They will likely also have the cheapest product on the market, and you will buy them if you have half a brain.
I was tired of all the bitching 6 months ago. It amazes me how some people think that they are the most important people in the world. Ya'll might want to contact Dos Equis, they may have a place for you in a beer commercial.
Now that's funny. I don't care who you are
Milo I wouldn't call it immaturity but knee jerk, mob mentality, which runs rampant on the internet. People need to look at the big picture. How this is a good thing and not being done to punish or screw anyone. As mentioned others will do it but you probably won't hear about it. Hornady has the balls and respect for their loyal customers to at least tell them.
Milo I wouldn't call it immaturity but knee jerk, mob mentality, which runs rampant on the internet. People need to look at the big picture. How this is a good thing and not being done to punish or screw anyone. As mentioned others will do it but you probably won't hear about it. Hornady has the balls and respect for their loyal customers to at least tell them.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Now that's funny. I don't care who you are
Milo I wouldn't call it immaturity but knee jerk, mob mentality, which runs rampant on the internet. People need to look at the big picture. How this is a good thing and not being done to punish or screw anyone. As mentioned others will do it but you probably won't hear about it. Hornady has the balls and respect for their loyal customers to at least tell them.
Rob,
Glad you got some amusement out of it! Here, my heads still spinning, it went from the attack on me, to coyote hunting, to Oliver Twist wanting chocolate cake, to a beer commercial, WTF?
Then twenty minutes later he's ranting about CTD in the rimfire section, but yet managed to mutter the words immature. At least it wasn't the usual name calling, degrading BS that runs rampant on this site.
If you read my post, I said I could care less, one way or the other, let them do what's needed, FINE, done.
My post was just bringing attention to someone's way of disagreeing with another's opinion.
Personally I think Zimmerman was and is a dipshit, maybe I should go into the Bear PIt Zimmerman thread and call his backers immature because I disagree with what they are saying. How long you think I'll last?
Milo slow your roll. I was laughing at Armor's post. Not you or your thoughts. I tried to politely explain it to you and others.
You want to complain about the site then speak to Lowlight. If I had my way then alot of people wouldn't be here.
You want to complain about the site then speak to Lowlight. If I had my way then alot of people wouldn't be here.
Well I was really really bummed to see the .30 cal 178 bthp was on the list because my department switched over to this and they don't load the 178 amax into ammo. We had the order in since march and was told we would have it in August. Now we are in a pickle and will more than likely switch over to FGMM 175 and not go back to the #8105. We order a year and a halfs worth of ammo so that if things are backed up we won't be in a bad spot. I understand they looked at their numbers and decided to keep making what they sell the most of and that is smart business. But as a consumer if i can't reliably get a product then ill have to look at a competitor.
As a reloader who loads this bullet I am good for about a year before I will start hurting. I will buy them again when they become available because they are a good bullet with a high BC and are cheaper than SMKs. I was told by Kathy McHale (Hornady's LE rep) there is no hard date when they are going to look at producing the suspended products, her tone didn't sound to reassuring either. I think it is very possible the suspension could last into 2015 or late 2014 at best...
As a reloader who loads this bullet I am good for about a year before I will start hurting. I will buy them again when they become available because they are a good bullet with a high BC and are cheaper than SMKs. I was told by Kathy McHale (Hornady's LE rep) there is no hard date when they are going to look at producing the suspended products, her tone didn't sound to reassuring either. I think it is very possible the suspension could last into 2015 or late 2014 at best...
both of the bullets i use are on both the suspended (least popular) and being produced (popular) list? imo for the price, hornady puts (put) out the best product, and i'll have to suck it up until things get back to normal, or adjust to whatever the "new" normal will be.
with the "great ammo / component scare of '12 & '13", could anyone easily find hornady premium heads before the announcement what is now on the suspended list anyway?
so now those that used hornady or even those that haven't are going to be buying up the sierra's, bergers, speers, noslers etc. in fear of being without causing the same situation in those lines. instead of saying "suspended or temporarily unavialable" like hornady and at least coming out with some sort of statement, the descriptions read "on backorder" or "out of stock no backorder". tomatoe / tomato.
whether the retooling is true or not, or whatever the driving truely is behind all of the madness with any of the components from any manufacturer, does it really matter as they (whomever "they" are) got us by the testes, and sadly the reality is in today's climate the reality is we have control over it anyway.
so buy a mosin nagant and surplus 7.62x54 ammo and be happy with 3moa or lead tipped + or - 5 grains hunting heads...oh wait the availablilty on that stuff is low and the prices up too, perhaps a slingshot and bag full of ball bearings.
at least an hornady made an attempt to put out there to why stuff is or isn't going to be available, which is more than most are doing, and the shooting community crucifies them anyway, while the anti's sit back and laugh on how much we eat our own.
if they let the public know first before, the dealers / wholesalers would be screaming, and rightfully so as they are truley the first step in the chain of distribution. if the announcement was at the same time to dealers and public, dealers should still feel pissed as they would be left out of the loop without advanced notice to be prepared to deal with the whining soon to come, feeling hung out - at least i would.
poop flows downwards, but through channels - manufacturers> dealers (wholesalers)>retailers>consumers.
with the "great ammo / component scare of '12 & '13", could anyone easily find hornady premium heads before the announcement what is now on the suspended list anyway?
so now those that used hornady or even those that haven't are going to be buying up the sierra's, bergers, speers, noslers etc. in fear of being without causing the same situation in those lines. instead of saying "suspended or temporarily unavialable" like hornady and at least coming out with some sort of statement, the descriptions read "on backorder" or "out of stock no backorder". tomatoe / tomato.
whether the retooling is true or not, or whatever the driving truely is behind all of the madness with any of the components from any manufacturer, does it really matter as they (whomever "they" are) got us by the testes, and sadly the reality is in today's climate the reality is we have control over it anyway.
so buy a mosin nagant and surplus 7.62x54 ammo and be happy with 3moa or lead tipped + or - 5 grains hunting heads...oh wait the availablilty on that stuff is low and the prices up too, perhaps a slingshot and bag full of ball bearings.
at least an hornady made an attempt to put out there to why stuff is or isn't going to be available, which is more than most are doing, and the shooting community crucifies them anyway, while the anti's sit back and laugh on how much we eat our own.
if they let the public know first before, the dealers / wholesalers would be screaming, and rightfully so as they are truley the first step in the chain of distribution. if the announcement was at the same time to dealers and public, dealers should still feel pissed as they would be left out of the loop without advanced notice to be prepared to deal with the whining soon to come, feeling hung out - at least i would.
poop flows downwards, but through channels - manufacturers> dealers (wholesalers)>retailers>consumers.
It definitely is. Not just in the products but when you know the people who work there and their commitment to the products and customers it's easy. When you talk to Mr Hornady and hear him speak about his company and his support of the shooters, hunters and competitors its also easy to give them loyalty as they have earned it.
Milo you and I have been in it before. I was not personally attacking you, simply put, your post was the impetus that pushed me over the edge. The CTD thread and this, are absolutely two different subjects all together. I did not rail on CTD. I think you better read it again. I can prove my Wal-Mart profiteering theory with a very long list of links. I have better things to do with my time right now, as I just got home from a match, tired dirty, and it is bahogey night. You are free to peruse GB auctions for 22 ammo and dig up the dirt yourself, it is very easy to connect the dots.I don't care if you buy from CTD, Wal-Mart, GB, or Hornady. If you read my fargin post you would know I said that makes this country great...the right to choose.
Hornady is TRYING to help. CTD it would appear is trying to cater to fools. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Bitching and pissing and moaning is what kids and women do...just sayin. My CTD post was not a bitch fest, simply trying to appeal to logic. Don't like it? Don't buy. Hornady is not deserving of derision from internet commando CEO's. Frankly I have a lot more sharp words that I could say, and have held my peace on these subjects with the patience of Job.
Hornady does not sponsor me(yet). I do not own stock in the company. I don't go over to Steve's house and eat chicken(yet). I do shoot some of their bullets, even won a regional champion title with Amax's. If my crystal ball is correct, I will be shooting Red a lot more.
Hornady is TRYING to help. CTD it would appear is trying to cater to fools. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Bitching and pissing and moaning is what kids and women do...just sayin. My CTD post was not a bitch fest, simply trying to appeal to logic. Don't like it? Don't buy. Hornady is not deserving of derision from internet commando CEO's. Frankly I have a lot more sharp words that I could say, and have held my peace on these subjects with the patience of Job.
Hornady does not sponsor me(yet). I do not own stock in the company. I don't go over to Steve's house and eat chicken(yet). I do shoot some of their bullets, even won a regional champion title with Amax's. If my crystal ball is correct, I will be shooting Red a lot more.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
That's what you said last time we had to delete 10 posts apiece! We're cool.
As for sponsorships, one needs quite a squeaky clean image to uphold, both in the public eye and out, especially gun forums.
Here's Hornady's number, 1-800-338-3220, give them a call and work on that image! Good luck with that, and I do mean it.
I do agree, CTD can suck a bag of dicks.
No harm no foul then. I have no delusion about sponsors. The sport I excelled in didn't even allow sponsors, didn't allow any cash or prizes, and the year I actually clinched a championship category, the hosting club took my $70 plus in entry fees and DID NOT PROVIDE A TROPHY. Yeah I am bitching, sorry. I don't shoot it any more, nuff said.
The yet stuff was a bit of levity. I am past my prime and could never keep up with the younger guys in the newer sports. I am pretty old, pretty crotchety, and pretty apt to stay that way, so I will entertain no delusions of grandeur. I do have the mileage to teach the younger guys and that is what I really enjoy anyway. If you ever get a chance to shoot with me you may find I am not as big an asshole as I would appear. I am a man who speaks my mind however, no matter the venue.
The yet stuff was a bit of levity. I am past my prime and could never keep up with the younger guys in the newer sports. I am pretty old, pretty crotchety, and pretty apt to stay that way, so I will entertain no delusions of grandeur. I do have the mileage to teach the younger guys and that is what I really enjoy anyway. If you ever get a chance to shoot with me you may find I am not as big an asshole as I would appear. I am a man who speaks my mind however, no matter the venue.
Any word as to when Hornady will return to producing some of the suspended bullets like the 80 gr A-Max?
Hopefully 80gr A-Maxes are rollin' before I shoot up this last box of 600 that I'm about to crack...
ttt any insiders with credible info on 75 80 amax being ran. what did they tell anybody who called?
75 Amax off suspension list, don't think they've yet hit shelves.
I asked on Facebook about the 80 Amax, basically got "no estimate".
I asked on Facebook about the 80 Amax, basically got "no estimate".
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