Meh. The GT350R was so much better.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Horse Power, Track Shit, Torque, Cubic Inches, Liters, Run What Ya Brung, Auto or Cycle
- Thread starter DarnYankeeUSMC
- Start date
Agree100%. We never did get a 350R
A fella couldn't decide between our Super Snake or the GT350 and just bought them both though. ThT was pretty cool
@E. Bryant @BLKWLFK9
My buddy and I secured two 6.0 L76 blocks for $500 a piece. These are GTO blocks and I think they were also in some version of the Silverado. Will have to do a DOD block off of the valley ports and we will likely do the Lingenfelter rivets as I dont think I trust the o-ring style of valley plates for any kind of long term usage...
Got two 4.8 58x cranks on the way and two sets of 4th Gen 4.8 rods.
Once I can measure the blocks we will decide on pistons. If we can get away with a light hone, just going to run some OEM take out hyper 4.000 pistons for like $100 with new rings. If we need to bore the blocks then will step into something forged I think like a Summit Pro-LS piston.
So slowly starting to gather parts. Going to be at least a year long project to get everything together to do the full swap.
My buddy and I secured two 6.0 L76 blocks for $500 a piece. These are GTO blocks and I think they were also in some version of the Silverado. Will have to do a DOD block off of the valley ports and we will likely do the Lingenfelter rivets as I dont think I trust the o-ring style of valley plates for any kind of long term usage...
Got two 4.8 58x cranks on the way and two sets of 4th Gen 4.8 rods.
Once I can measure the blocks we will decide on pistons. If we can get away with a light hone, just going to run some OEM take out hyper 4.000 pistons for like $100 with new rings. If we need to bore the blocks then will step into something forged I think like a Summit Pro-LS piston.
So slowly starting to gather parts. Going to be at least a year long project to get everything together to do the full swap.
Rods showed up. Pretty clean for OE take off's...
No fuel leaks.
No oil leaks.
No gear lube leaks.
No coolant leaks.
No vacuum leaks.
Need to get the dual throttle return springs plumbed in so she will pass NHRA tech inspection.
The old gal has no power steering.
Power steering was an option until I believe 1971 and then in 72 it was standard equipment.
E load rated tires pumped up to 80 psi and the 18 inch steering wheel help out on those parking lot maneuvers.
So yeah, drive slow, hang onto the steering wheel and slow down for the bump or dip.
Driving this thing makes you realize just how dangerous that old iron is to drive as compared to this modern stuff.
I need to chase down a set of outdated race car belts for it if anybody has a set laying around hook up brother up.
My track car has no power steering so I understand where you are coming from. Only really a problem at low speeds, but as you say a big steering wheel helps out. I thought my 350mm steering wheel was big... 18" is 457mm... thats more like a ships wheel..
You have power brakes at least... none on the Miata. First time people drive they are like "oh fuck, I forgot you have manual brakes" then by the time they have a lap or two they are like "these are the best brakes I have ever felt"...
ABS? whats that stand for...
traction/stability control? nope...
I love full manual stuff where your brain is the ECU...
You have power brakes at least... none on the Miata. First time people drive they are like "oh fuck, I forgot you have manual brakes" then by the time they have a lap or two they are like "these are the best brakes I have ever felt"...
ABS? whats that stand for...
traction/stability control? nope...
I love full manual stuff where your brain is the ECU...
missing some parts for the second set but I am sure they are here somewhere. A bit rusty but they are yours if you want them.
That's a generous offer and I thank you. I'm almost 100% certain a local guy down at the parts house has a set that he can hook me up with. And once again, thank you for being willing to help a brother out.
@BLKWLFK9 @E. Bryant
When yall are reading bearing thickness specs and they are in MM and you convert to .inch would you take a .0619 and call it an .062??? My brains says "obviously yes".
Obviously this is just for ordering purposes as I will re-measure everything once I get a set of bearings in hand to make sure my tolerances are still where I think they should be...
I've only measured up my rods and rod journals so far.
Rods are basically all 2.226 and I have one or two that are 2.2265. Spec is 2.224-2.225, but im not going to fret over .001 or .0015 especially since my math at the end works out to the clearance I want.
Journals are all 2.100 and I figure will shrink ever so slightly when I get them polished, but I have heard only like maybe .001.
So 2.226-2.100=.126 minus two .062 bearings(.124) gives me .002 clearance which is perfect for standard bearings. I would guess AT MOST I might need half +.001 if my crank measurement gets smaller after polishing.
When yall are reading bearing thickness specs and they are in MM and you convert to .inch would you take a .0619 and call it an .062??? My brains says "obviously yes".
Obviously this is just for ordering purposes as I will re-measure everything once I get a set of bearings in hand to make sure my tolerances are still where I think they should be...
I've only measured up my rods and rod journals so far.
Rods are basically all 2.226 and I have one or two that are 2.2265. Spec is 2.224-2.225, but im not going to fret over .001 or .0015 especially since my math at the end works out to the clearance I want.
Journals are all 2.100 and I figure will shrink ever so slightly when I get them polished, but I have heard only like maybe .001.
So 2.226-2.100=.126 minus two .062 bearings(.124) gives me .002 clearance which is perfect for standard bearings. I would guess AT MOST I might need half +.001 if my crank measurement gets smaller after polishing.
Last edited:
well the difference between using .0619 as .061 vs. .062, that .001 makes a big difference in clearance at the end of the day.
That makes rod clearances 0030 vs. 0020. 0030 is out of the factory limit of .00248. To me thats a recipe for possibly spinning a bearing. Also need to run like a 20w50 at that clearance which will rob me of some HP. Some guys with FI are running 0030 rod bearing clearances, but it seems not recommended for NA builds to go that wide.
Like I said, im just trying to narrow down what bearing size to order, which will then obviously get measured out again, but at $140-150 for a set of bearings, I would rather not order up a set that I cant use and once you break them out of the package you cant return them. Im GUESSING between my motor and my buddies though that we will need a set of 001 oversize bearings anyway so we will probably end up with 2 sets of standards and one set of +001's to mix and match.
For some reason my eldest son has decided that hobbyist wrenching looks fun. So he decided to start with Bosch K-Jetronic CIS. Should be interesting. He's only out a few hundred bucks so far, and I told him if he's gonna waste money he might as well do it before he's an adult. His mother and girlfriend are very unimpressed.
Got my block from my buddy that picked them up in Houston a few weeks ago... He paid $500 per... I thought that was a good deal. Then his car broke at the track on Saturday morning first session and he drove my car almost all weekend... End of weekend I said "I need to zelle you the cash for the block" and he said "just send me $300 cause I drove your car all weekend"... fuckin deal...
Needs to be tanked.
Bores have light surface rust. I scrubbed them down with some lube and a green 3m pad to try to scrub as much off as possible then I wiped them down with ATF to try to protect them. After measuring going to have to at a minimum hone them, but I dont know what the practical limit of honing is vs. boring... also dont know if honing will clean up any rust pitting, which I dont really think there is, just surface rust that hopefully I caught in time and stopped...
Measured out the block and most bores were 4.0019-4.0021 and were fairly square. Smallest I think was 4.0015 and largest was 4.0025... So I cant use a factory pull out piston, my PTW will be to much, especially after honing. So ill likely have to bump to at least a 4.005 piston if not a 4.010 piston. Im thinking they can hone .003 to get to 4.005(or slightly plus or minus depending on piston measurements). If it has to go to 4.010 then I am sure that requires boring and a lot more cash outlay.
Looking at Mahle Powerpack 4032 pistons. Dont need a 2618 piston and I dont want to deal with cold piston slap, extra wear from running larger PTW, etc... so a 4032 piston will work great for an NA road race setup.
Needs to be tanked.
Bores have light surface rust. I scrubbed them down with some lube and a green 3m pad to try to scrub as much off as possible then I wiped them down with ATF to try to protect them. After measuring going to have to at a minimum hone them, but I dont know what the practical limit of honing is vs. boring... also dont know if honing will clean up any rust pitting, which I dont really think there is, just surface rust that hopefully I caught in time and stopped...
Measured out the block and most bores were 4.0019-4.0021 and were fairly square. Smallest I think was 4.0015 and largest was 4.0025... So I cant use a factory pull out piston, my PTW will be to much, especially after honing. So ill likely have to bump to at least a 4.005 piston if not a 4.010 piston. Im thinking they can hone .003 to get to 4.005(or slightly plus or minus depending on piston measurements). If it has to go to 4.010 then I am sure that requires boring and a lot more cash outlay.
Looking at Mahle Powerpack 4032 pistons. Dont need a 2618 piston and I dont want to deal with cold piston slap, extra wear from running larger PTW, etc... so a 4032 piston will work great for an NA road race setup.
Run a ball hone in a cylinder or two. You might be surprised that a measurement in a freshly honed bore might just shrink up a .001" or so. Honing doesn't just only take metal away. It actually slightly displaces some metal. All it will cost is a little time to find out.Got my block from my buddy that picked them up in Houston a few weeks ago... He paid $500 per... I thought that was a good deal. Then his car broke at the track on Saturday morning first session and he drove my car almost all weekend... End of weekend I said "I need to zelle you the cash for the block" and he said "just send me $300 cause I drove your car all weekend"... fuckin deal...
Needs to be tanked.
Bores have light surface rust. I scrubbed them down with some lube and a green 3m pad to try to scrub as much off as possible then I wiped them down with ATF to try to protect them. After measuring going to have to at a minimum hone them, but I dont know what the practical limit of honing is vs. boring... also dont know if honing will clean up any rust pitting, which I dont really think there is, just surface rust that hopefully I caught in time and stopped...
Measured out the block and most bores were 4.0019-4.0021 and were fairly square. Smallest I think was 4.0015 and largest was 4.0025... So I cant use a factory pull out piston, my PTW will be to much, especially after honing. So ill likely have to bump to at least a 4.005 piston if not a 4.010 piston. Im thinking they can hone .003 to get to 4.005(or slightly plus or minus depending on piston measurements). If it has to go to 4.010 then I am sure that requires boring and a lot more cash outlay.
Looking at Mahle Powerpack 4032 pistons. Dont need a 2618 piston and I dont want to deal with cold piston slap, extra wear from running larger PTW, etc... so a 4032 piston will work great for an NA road race setup.
Don't use a ball hone. Here is a very good explanation why.
I dont want to spend 80-100 bucks on a ball hone and THEN take this block to be power honed. Juice not worth the squeeze.
I need to buy pistons one way or another as I have none. I have no clue what a set of factory pistons measures, but I am guessing something in the high 3.99x range since a finished OE bore on this motor is supposed to measure 4.0007 to 4.0017. So I actually have a few bores that are still in the factory tolerance barely. You arent supposed to run larger than about .002 PTW on a cast piston. So with bore measurements on the large side of OE tolerance or beyond, im not comfortable running an OE 4.000 piston, or any 4.000 piston for that matter so the bore's need to be opened up just a bit further to accommodate a 4.005 piston and im hoping that can be done via honing and not have to bore simply due to cost involved in boring. Im also hoping honing that .003 will clean up any little rust pitting, otherwise ill have to bore anyway, but hopefully not to anymore than .010...because the next jump seems to be 4.030 pistons.
I got a deal on this whole setup for $500. Going to install it in the woman's Oldsmobile.
If you're buying new pistons anyway, just have it bored and torque plate honed. The peace of mind is worth the expense. Then you know for sure the cylinders are straight and concentric. This hobby isn't cheap, especially done right. I spent $2k to have a 302 roller block bored and torque plate honed, decked, align honed, rods resized, pistons installed, and the rotating assembly balanced.
oh yea, thats what I am going to have done.
Block needs to be hot tanked to clean it all up.
It needs honed for sure, hopefully not bored, just cause I dont want to spend the money. Guessing needs decks skimmed/trued, but all I have is a piece of 1" aluminum thats like 3 feet long and it doesnt look BAD, but I dont have indicators to really get a handle on it. Need to have the mains torqued and checked to see if it needs an align hone. Rod bushings need replaced and sized. Crank needs hot tank, polish and balance(luckily all the journals measures out good, so should be minimal work). Needs cam bearings pressed in, I dont have the tool to do that.
I would like to do the assembly myself simply because I like to do that shit, but ill chat with the machine shop on that.
I cant really order pistons until I get it to the machine shop and we determine if it needs 005 or 010 pistons. Same with bearings. Dont know if i need standard, +001, -001, or whatever until we get it all checked out. So I may let them order bearings for me and just assemble the bottom end.
I'm likely a few months away from doing anything else on this project because I need to have like 2500 bucks sitting to pay for machine work, bearings, etc... before I move forward. I have two machine shops I want to go talk to and get a rough idea on pricing. Still trying to get my list together of questions to ask them.
But so far I am in this lower end for $500(300 block, 90 crank, 110 rods) so financially I am in it cheap right now and I think I have decent enough parts that I am not going to get buried at the machine shop.
That’s a great deal for the money. I’ve considered FI for my ‘69 mustang but just can’t pull the trigger on a new setup. I’m seeing around $1500 minimum for new.
I always hesitate on used units that heave been pulled off something and are up for sale.
Hopefully this works out great for you, I’ve got a buddy running this on his SBC crate engine and he loves it.
Sorry for the tardy reply. Let's start at the top:
1) Yes, you'll eventually need to round your conversions, but don't do that until the very end.
2) I don't know how you're measure the rod journal ID, but OE GM stuff tends to be so damn consistent and accurate that any deviations from spec probably suggest an issue with your measurement equipment rather than a problem with the parts themselves.
3) I doubt you'll get any measurable change in the journal OD from polishing; if so, it's more than polishing. But yeah, simply measure the journal afterwards and shoot for 0.002. If you need to tighten that up by a thou via thicker bearings, no problem.
4) Some people feel that bearing coatings will cause the clearance to open up a touch after break-in, and set their initial clearances accordingly.
This is an excellent read on clearances and how it works with oil selection:
Bearing Clearance And Oil Viscosity Explained | K1 Technologies
The relationship between bearing clearance and oil viscosity is a delicate balance. Read on for more information on how to get it right!There are some fairly
www.k1technologies.com
And another good reference document:
You're going to spin this engine at high RPM for long periods of time (relative to drag racers, not offshore power boats) at relatively low load (once again, relatively speaking). Your #1 concern is ensuring adequate flow of clean and cool lubrication to the journal.
I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle in selecting the initial clearance. Shoot for the looser end of the factory values (which will get you right around the traditional 0.001" per 1" of journal OD), and plan on experimenting a bit with the oil viscosity. I am not terribly concerned with parasitic losses in an engine of this type, but you likely won't need to run anything overly thick as long as you can keep the oil temperature under control.
I got it from a local guy that had it put on his 442 Olds. It was only on that car for a few months and not driven much. I think he thought the system was going to make his stock motor a top fuel race car. When he said that he'd take $500 for it. I opened my wallet.
$1500 plus the hyper fire integrated distributor. I also got a second distributor with it. I can sell that and recoup most of my $500.
Sorry for the tardy reply. Let's start at the top:
1) Yes, you'll eventually need to round your conversions, but don't do that until the very end.
2) I don't know how you're measure the rod journal ID, but OE GM stuff tends to be so damn consistent and accurate that any deviations from spec probably suggest an issue with your measurement equipment rather than a problem with the parts themselves.
3) I doubt you'll get any measurable change in the journal OD from polishing; if so, it's more than polishing. But yeah, simply measure the journal afterwards and shoot for 0.002. If you need to tighten that up by a thou via thicker bearings, no problem.
4) Some people feel that bearing coatings will cause the clearance to open up a touch after break-in, and set their initial clearances accordingly.
This is an excellent read on clearances and how it works with oil selection:
Bearing Clearance And Oil Viscosity Explained | K1 Technologies
The relationship between bearing clearance and oil viscosity is a delicate balance. Read on for more information on how to get it right!There are some fairly
And another good reference document:
You're going to spin this engine at high RPM for long periods of time (relative to drag racers, not offshore power boats) at relatively low load (once again, relatively speaking). Your #1 concern is ensuring adequate flow of clean and cool lubrication to the journal.
I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle in selecting the initial clearance. Shoot for the looser end of the factory values (which will get you right around the traditional 0.001" per 1" of journal OD), and plan on experimenting a bit with the oil viscosity. I am not terribly concerned with parasitic losses in an engine of this type, but you likely won't need to run anything overly thick as long as you can keep the oil temperature under control.
2. I used a bore gauge setup to the small end of the spec.
3. I dont think my crank needs anything but a light polish so im not expecting much. While I would love to just do it at home with some of the methods I have seen on youtube, ill probably just let the machine shop tank it, polish it, balance it and check it for straightness. I've only got 90 bucks in it so im still ahead of the game
4. The King coating is supposedly impregnated into the material and not a top coating. I think its the ACL bearings use a sprayed on teflon top coating that I do think affects bearing clearances as it wears. Im planning to use the King XPC bearings.
As far as overall clearances I have read a bunch on them and that an aluminum LS thats hot will grow everything .001 and you want to set initial cold clearances so you dont exceed the max end which is "generally" considered like .003. The GM spec I think is 0022 for max cold. One guy recommended the 0016 because as it grows that 001 you end up around 0026 hot which is right at the 001 per inch of main(2.6=.0026)... sounded reasonable. They also say rods dont grow hardly at all at temp because they are steel vs. aluminum so their recommendations was 0020-0021 which I believe I can get there with standard stuff.
I'm going to let the machine shop inspect my rods when they change the bushings. I dont expect anything crazy to be found. Planning on swapping to ARP rod bolts. I know the OE rod bolts would likely be fine, but I dont know anything about the ones that are in it. Supposedly they can be torqued 3x as they are TTY... a new set of OE bolts is like 90 bucks... I can get ARP's for like 100-110, so ill likely swap to them.
As far as oiling, my plan is obviously an oil cooler(looking at Setrab stuff either a series 9 or a slim line) and a 3qt accusump. Buddy says his 3qt accusump in his LS miata with the Kevko road race pan gives him like 30 seconds of oil reserve which is plenty for basically anywhere we will ever run.
2.65L/rev, 3.33:1 drive ratio - should be enough for 20ish PSI on my little 405-cube motor.
Now it's time to find some bigger injectors than the 1050cc/min that certainly seemed big enough when I bought them (that's a common story), and then to make a decision on the cam.
On the uglier side of things, I wrangled a 4L80E from the G2500 that I'm scrapping:
Hopefully it fits the floorpan of my '96 Impala SS better than the 6L90E that I was attempting to install. Pretty sure it'll go in with just some simple mods to the tubular crossmember I was running with the T56.
Hopefully it fits the floorpan of my '96 Impala SS better than the 6L90E that I was attempting to install. Pretty sure it'll go in with just some simple mods to the tubular crossmember I was running with the T56.
Hit me up with a DM if you decide to build that 4L80E for holding some power. I build lots of them for the local E85 + boost crowd in my AO. I can guide you through a lot of cost effective mods. Plus you will have the satisfaction of doing it yourself.
I'm likely the worst person to ask on this as I tend to follow the "use new parts, but build it like it has 100K+ miles on it rule."
Case in point:
2 seasons ago I took an iron 5.3 truck block and filled the water jacket with concrete. We punched it +.03", gapped the rings like a pair of 8-year front teeth, and set the mains up with .004" and the thrust with .0045'. Rod bearings were around .0029" if I recall. (don't quote me on that as the mains were the big deal) I ran 5-40 Rotella through that thing on a HV/HP Melling pump. We had 65 psi all the way down the track and when I pulled caps mid-season, there was almost no evidence of anything. One or two little smears here and there. The thrust bearing had nothing other than a scratch from some dirt.
This was a 10.5:1 CR motor on methanol with 35psi worth of 8.3L Whipple blower plopped on it. The guess on power was somewhere in the 1100 zone. We spun that thing up to 7500 on a .670" lift hydraulic roller camshaft. -Morel High RPM hydraulic lifters.
As for imperial to metric conversions and bearings. A tenth by itself likely won't hurt a thing. Just be sure your rounding to a tenth and not a thousandths. (.0001" vs .001")
On another note for anyone running boost and methanol. Something I recently ran accross that makes a great deal of sense to me. (like DUH! sense):
Gap your top ring as called by the setup. (ring material, piston material, bore size, distance from the crown, fuel, boost, nitrous, whatever...)
Gap your #2 Compression ring fatter than the top as called by the setup. (see above)
Gap your TOP OIL RING the same as you do the #2 compression! (Meh?!)
Lots of sneeze (boost) and methanol translates into a metric piss ton of blowby. It's going to happen. The trick then becomes venting off that pressure from between the #1 and #2 compression rings. Gapping the top oil ring all fatty like allows that pressure to piss its way through the oil return holes poked into the oil ring holes of the piston. The poison to avoid here is lifting a compression ring off of its seat when under load (power/pressure) as this is how ring flutter starts and that kills the seal and beats the snot out of the piston and the bore.
Good luck. Eat well tomorrow gents.
I figured rope you in cause you might know something. Sometimes helps to have others to bounce ideas off of as well or get a gut check.
22 more pounds taken out of the funmobile. Getting close to 300lbs removed while managing to keep it stock looking.
FuelTech's YouTube channel is like pornography in that it basically rewires the brain for unrealistic expectations. I, too, could have a 2500 RWHP car! Sick, sick stuff. I love it.
I've been a GM guy my whole life, but my younger son really digs 1970-80s Ford pickups. I could see getting talked into buying a project truck with a 460 in the near future.
Speaking of FuelTech and unrealistic expectations, this car is absolutely gorgeous and insanely powerful:
www.dragzine.com
And apparently it can put that horsepower to the track:
www.dragzine.com
My rough bar napkin math says that thing is pulling 1.4g down the back half of the track. Put slightly differently, it's accelerating from 220 to 270 quicker than a Porsche 911 Turbo S goes 0-50. Absolutely mind-bending.
Mark Micke's New Pro Mod Belts Out 4,779 HP On FuelTech's Dyno
Micke's new twin-turbo, Hemi-powered Pro Modified Camaro ripped on FuelTech's hub dyno ahead of its competition debut.
www.dragzine.com
And apparently it can put that horsepower to the track:
Breaking: Jose Gonzalez Resets 1/4-Mile Pro Mod World Record
Jose Gonzalez reclaimed the outright 1/4-mile Pro Mod world record today, piloting Mark Micke's twin-turbo Camaro to a 5.35 at 272 mph.
www.dragzine.com
My rough bar napkin math says that thing is pulling 1.4g down the back half of the track. Put slightly differently, it's accelerating from 220 to 270 quicker than a Porsche 911 Turbo S goes 0-50. Absolutely mind-bending.
