How interested would precision shooters be in another M118LR 308 option?

[Masked]

The Mk 262 load is 2820-2845 out of my 18" AR's. You are giving up a lot of velocity by going to Varget. TAC will do better and meter more easily. The 24.3 grain of TAC with 77 SMK will get 2735 in the faster barrels.

That's fair and certainly an option.

My opinion is that I'd rather have an accurate round than a faster round - My findings are that the varget tends to be more accurate than Tac...Ultimately, I'll be sure to do a sample and test both, we'll see what works.

Again, this is a process and I'm completely open to suggestions.

 

[Luvman]

Yes sir, those are the results I'm seeing out of a 20" barrel.

I’m in!

 

[RTH1800]

Better give TAC a try. It holds up well to 600 M for me in my rifles.

 

[bolt56]

Masked, be very interested in the MK248 MOD1 300 WM ammo, and probably some of the 308 ammo, Bolt56

 

[wigwamitus]

Right now I shoot the following cartridges for .308

M118LR MV = 2611, SD = 9.7 out of bartlein 20 inch barrel on seekins upper/lower. price per rd shipped 115 cents, LC Brass

FGMM 175gr, 7.62 load MV = 2594, SD = 17.6 out of REM700 SPS TAC AAC-SD 20 inch barreled action on Bravo. price per rd shipped 104 cents,
FC brass

Berger/Berger 155.5 MV 2974, SD = 10.5 out of REM700 Criterion REMAGE 22 inch on AIAX. price per rd shipped 140 cents, Lapua Brass

My first priority for reloading would be to match the berger/berger 155.5 at a significantly lower cost per rd.

 

[Gasgun]

@$1/rd on M118LR to spec.
This will be a custom load, guaranteed at 2600fps +, with a std deviation of no more than 0.01.

I would be in for some of this.

 

[wigwamitus]

As to .300WM
Right now, I shoot FGMM 190gr MV = 3001 SD = 18.7 out of REM700 Criterion REMAGE 24 inch on McRee G5, price per rd shipped 140 cents.

I have shot a lot of (and stilll have some of the shelf) Barnes 220gr MV = 2735 SD = 15, same gun. Price per rd shipped 255 cents.

Given the cost and the lack of hot-ness, I've switched to the FGMM 190gr but would be interested in either depending on the numbers.

 

[Basher]

I’d be down for the MK262 at least, possibly the M118LR as well. I’ve moved to a 20” .308, so I’m still not settled on what bullet to use. I have 400rnds of FGMM Berger 185 Juggs to try out, and I want to try 168/178 ELD-M and the 155 Scenar as well. The 175SMK is a proven option that I’d consider, but if any of the above offer me a large enough advantage once I’m setup to roll my own, I’d probably only pick up a case or two of factory stuff to keep as a backup.

However, the MK262 would be a regular purchase for me, and having the M118LR available as an option at a good price is 110% attractive to me right now, as I don’t yet have the time to reload just yet. I’m definitely keeping tabs on this!

 

[wigwamitus]

As to 5.56 ... out of carbines (a.k.a SBRs) I shoot IMI 77gr prices vary from 57 to 67 cents per round ... accuracy not an issue for these platforms ...

For 5.56(18) ... I shot BH 77gr for eons ... then tried about 8 different cartridges hoping to find something better but could not ... the FGMM 77gr was especially unhot ... so I'm back to the BH 77gr which I don't have loaded into my current AB, but it is actually pretty close to the spec'd 2750 ...

But I want to try some of @rth1800 's stuff !!!

... The Mk 262 load is 2820-2845 out of my 18" AR's ...

Would make the BH look like slow motion The BH 77gr avg around 110 cents per rd shipped.

==
I am interested in a good cartridge for the 5.56(18) ... but for the carbines don't need it.

 

[Masked]

At this point, MK262 is a go.

I think I’m going to call it:

RFA262 - Really f’ing awesome 262.

I’m going to start with Varget and if Tac proves to be the better choice, I’ll go that direction.

RFA118 - Really F’ing Awesome 118.

Will be Varget with military components on 175 SMK - Also available in 178 Amax.

If anyone has better names, let me know. - Maybe I’ll give you a free box or something.

Prices are subject to change slightly once I do a run and reassess. At most it’ll be a 5c adjustment per round.

When I get the consistency I want, I’ll ask for testers and I’ll get a box out to those interested.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Masked]

Masked, be very interested in the MK248 MOD1 300 WM ammo, and probably some of the 308 ammo, Bolt56

MK248 Mod1 is a definite possibility, but would come with a waiver because that’s no joke.

It is 1500 capable as it sits.

I’d be willing to customize the Mk248’s a bit - Change the bullet...

I don’t know. Let me think on this.

 

[Masked]

MK248 Mod1 is a definite possibility, but would come with a waiver because that’s no joke.

It is 1500 capable as it sits.

I’d be willing to customize the Mk248’s a bit - Change the bullet...

I don’t know. Let me think on this.

Okay so, my liability insurance is ehhh on Mk248 Mod1s - They don’t want me to load them to spec.

To be clear - To spec is 77.7gr of H1000.

I can get away with 75gr which will be about 2900fps with a 220gr pill. - It’s below their pressure threshold.

If anyone is interested in that - We’ll call it RFA248. - Let me know.

I need some time to get the tools setup, get some test rounds out, get some samples, refine those samples and push forward from there.

In a week or two, I’ll be looking for testers.

Please keep in mind this is to spec military ammo - 7.62 nato saami spec, 5.56 saami spec and 300wm saami.

The RFA262 will run hot until we can hone it in. Same with the RFA118.

I’ve developed the 248 enough to be confident that the RFA248 will be good to go.

Turns out I will also have some precision blackout left over. This run will be 208 Amax - Subs - @1060 - Probably won’t cycle in a standard AR15 - Perfect for bolts.

This is a process, might take me a month to get to speed, might take a week - Please be patient with me through this.

It’s just like the Mk248 - I would’ve told you this morning there’s no way they’d say no...Then they say nope, no way Jose.

 

[wigwamitus]

I'm surprised, but the two cases of 190gr FGMM I've got are averaging MV=3001 with 24 inch criterion remage on rem700 LA.

And these are 140 cents per round shipped.

So, you would have to win on price to have me drop 100 fps.

 

[wigwamitus]

Oh wait, you are talking the 220gr, right ?? 2900 for the 220gr that sounds very interesting ... so what price target for the 220gr ?

 

[bfk4lyfe]

Interested in both, was about to order some of the Federal xm118 but can wait if there's a better option.

 

[Masked]

Oh wait, you are talking the 220gr, right ?? 2900 for the 220gr that sounds very interesting ... so what price target for the 220gr ?

So legitimate Mk248 Mod 0/1 was $3/round from Black Hills. In fact at one point it was $5/round.

This is a precision 190gr/220gr pill moving at 2900-3000fps with an accuracy guarantee.

If I were to offer that round, all considering, I’d be at around $2 - Honestly.

I understand that, the price point ties me with Hornady and berger, but I’m not interested in beating any prices on the larger calibers because I’m not willing to sacrifice quality for quantity.

 

[wigwamitus]

Aye, well the "crappy" ole FGMM 190gr at 140 cents per round shipped, MV=3001 (out of my 24 inch criterion remage on rem700) is working for me now.

Still interested in 175gr. Right now, M118LR is 2611 out of 20 inch barlein (115 cents per rd shipped) and FGMM 175 (7.62 load) is 2594 MV out of 20 inch rem700 sps tac aac-sd barreled action) for 104 cents per rd shipped. The numbers to beat.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

I have both my 18" AX in 308 as well as a MWS 16" and access to an 18" or 20" MWS I could test the M118lr in and a few different MRPs for the 5.56 stuff, mainly interested in it for my 18" MRP but I could run it through anything from 11.5 to 18" for testing. Also have a V3 magnetospeed and home range.

 

[Masked]

Aye, well the "crappy" ole FGMM 190gr at 140 cents per round shipped, MV=3001 (out of my 24 inch criterion remage on rem700) is working for me now.

Still interested in 175gr. Right now, M118LR is 2611 out of 20 inch barlein (115 cents per rd shipped) and FGMM 175 (7.62 load) is 2594 MV out of 20 inch rem700 sps tac aac-sd barreled action) for 104 cents per rd shipped. The numbers to beat.

I’m always going to pick accuracy over velocity - If a round is more accurate at 500 and you lose 50 - You lose 50...Its quality over quantity.

I also don’t really care what anyone else is priced at, I’m not trying to beat anyone.

It just so happens that due to the nature of my contracts, I can offer an arguably better product with better quality control at a better price point.

I’m not actively trying to beat anyone’s price - I’m actively trying to provide a quality product to precision shooters.

 

[wigwamitus]

ok, got it. I won't bug you any more about price! But for me, "logisitcs" is about the balance between price, availability and quality

 

[Nik H]

I never worry about the initial price...it will right itself after the product is tried and evaluated against its competitors by the market..capitalism is funny that way.

 

[Masked]

I never worry about the initial price...it will right itself after the product is tried and evaluated against its competitors by the market..capitalism is funny that way.

Pretty much.

I have some 300BLK overrun.

208 Amax subs, chrono at 1050 - Meant for a bolt rifle - Won’t cycle an AR unless your port hole is fully open.

If anyone is interested - Let me know.

I can let them go for about 85c/round - Will have approximately 500.

 

[Alpine 338]

Having shot thousands of rounds of M118-LR, I can say other than the heat sensitivity issues (which doesn't impact me as I shoot in Western Colorado), it has worked very well for me producing 1-moa and better performance in my Sako TRG's and GAP bolt gun. I have routinely purchased it for around 80¢ per round in bulk.

M118-LR has been replaced by Mk316. Federal produces FGMM 7.62x51 which is Mk316 contract overrun. It's performance equals M118-LR, and can be purchased around 75-80¢ per round when you can find it on sale.

I have also shot thousands of rounds of Mk262 Mod1 from my Mk12 SPR clones. I've tried varying assortments from Military Surplus, bulk from CMP, and overruns from BHA. I have found other than some small lots, it is not very accurate comparing it to quality 223Rem match grade ammo using the same bullet. I compete in numerous team matches, where I'm usually the carbine (AR) shooter, and BHA Redbox 223Rem 77-gr OTM is my go-to ammo because of superior accuracy over everything else available. Yes, Mk262 provides higher velocities, but what good is it if your accuracy suffers?

I did experiment with homemade Mk262 loads, and found a good substitute using LC brass, Fed 205M's, and VV-N540 powder. I was able to occasionally shoot 1/4" groups with it, and velocity was near Mk262 speeds with single digits ES/SD, but the time factor loading vs. purchasing BHA by the box with acceptable accuracy at 80¢ a rounds was a no brainier to me.

Bottom line, unless you can offer your ammo at the same, or less price than what's available, I would believe you may struggle as a new ammo manufacturer. Sure, you will have a small following, but to succeed, you need to be competitive with your price, especially if Trump stays in office another 4-years, as ammo prices are at an all time low.

Good luck in your venture.

 

[Masked]

This was covered earlier - The overrun and ammo that civilians have access to, is not the actual round.

I’m discussing offering the actual, original round, pre-2004. That’s not something that civilians have access to in any form/shape/function or reality. It’s also not mk316.

Battle packs are short 2gr, surplus is short 3-4gr — There’s a reason it’s called ‘overrun’.

To be clear - I’ve shot 2003 M118LR and have an entire shelf full of battle packs from LC/BH - It’s anemic compared to the originals.

Mk262 is being offered to spec.

Again - Not my primary gig - I have a military contract for different ammo that gives me access to components and material that civilians do not.

I appreciate the PMs in price - Appreciate the opinions.

Will be sourcing some testers in a few weeks, will include a NDA and a waiver - we’ll hone something in and go from there.

 

[1moaoff]

PM sent

 

[pmclaine]

Can you keep me posting three page threads like this?

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...e-175-smk-i4064-loaders.6936994/#post-7655687

 

[Masked]

Made a lot of phone calls over the past few days, talked to a lot of people.

There's high demand right now for an accurate 5.56 round with a 77gr bullet.
There's an incredibly high demand right now for a 308 round with @175's that'll perform well.

Here's the issue:

Barrel to barrel, you're all going to have different velocities.
Chamber to chamber, you're all going to have different pressures.
Buffer to buffer, yours might be heavier and not cycle, mine will cycle.
A Krieger is tighter than a Lilja, but Bartlein runs the tightest.

We can sit here and have a debate about M118LR all day long, about MK316's all day long - All I can tell you is that I have brand new battle packs and they feel anemic - I'm not happy with the new loads.

That being said; there are an infinite number of variables and I'm a one man show, with a life.

-----

I have about 1500 308 178 Amax bullets. (Not the ones that are shit, I have original lots)

I'm going to do a test batch of about 500 rds of my version of M118LR.

It's going to be called RFA308.

Did 10 rounds this morning.

I have an AR10-SASS, also have a M110 - In both rifles, 20" barrels, I'm seeing 2500-2600. Both rifles are cycling. I'm seeing subMOA at 200 in both rifles.

My bolt is a custom 18" Bartlein - I'm seeing @2400 in the shorter barrel. Still subMOA at 200.

I'll be sourcing testers for this round within a week.

-----

MK262 is a problem.

There are so many different barrels, with different reamers and different chambers...Everyone sits here saying: Faster faster faster...That's fine, but then you lose accuracy.

Did 10 rounds this morning.

My version of the MK262 is going to be slower.

Out of my 20" Rainier barrel - I'm seeing @2700fps
Out of my 16" Rainier barrel - I'm seeing @2400fps

I'm seeing subMOA from both barrels.

I'm going to take a minute on MK262 to think about what guarantees I'll be making and how I'm going to proceed.

There are significantly less variables with 308 than there are 223...And I need to take some time to get my numbers right and find some common ground in the market.

 

[pmclaine]

Made a lot of phone calls over the past few days, talked to a lot of people.

There's high demand right now for an accurate 5.56 round with a 77gr bullet.
There's an incredibly high demand right now for a 308 round with @175's that'll perform well.

Here's the issue:

Barrel to barrel, you're all going to have different velocities.
Chamber to chamber, you're all going to have different pressures.
Buffer to buffer, yours might be heavier and not cycle, mine will cycle.
A Krieger is tighter than a Lilja, but Bartlein runs the tightest.

We can sit here and have a debate about M118LR all day long, about MK316's all day long - All I can tell you is that I have brand new battle packs and they feel anemic - I'm not happy with the new loads.

That being said; there are an infinite number of variables and I'm a one man show, with a life.

-----

I have about 1500 308 178 Amax bullets. (Not the ones that are shit, I have original lots)

I'm going to do a test batch of about 500 rds of my version of M118LR.

It's going to be called RFA308.

Did 10 rounds this morning.

I have an AR10-SASS, also have a M110 - In both rifles, 20" barrels, I'm seeing 2500-2600. Both rifles are cycling. I'm seeing subMOA at 200 in both rifles.

My bolt is a custom 18" Bartlein - I'm seeing @2400 in the shorter barrel. Still subMOA at 200.

I'll be sourcing testers for this round within a week.

-----

MK262 is a problem.

There are so many different barrels, with different reamers and different chambers...Everyone sits here saying: Faster faster faster...That's fine, but then you lose accuracy.

Did 10 rounds this morning.

My version of the MK262 is going to be slower.

Out of my 20" Rainier barrel - I'm seeing @2700fps
Out of my 16" Rainier barrel - I'm seeing @2400fps

I'm seeing subMOA from both barrels.

I'm going to take a minute on MK262 to think about what guarantees I'll be making and how I'm going to proceed.

There are significantly less variables with 308 than there are 223...And I need to take some time to get my numbers right and find some common ground in the market.

You need to figure out the secret sauce that allows FGMM 175 to shoot great in just about every gun despite the equipment variables.

 

[brianf]

^^ federal has that formula so locked down that if a 308 cant shoot FGMM 168 or 175...you should just throw it out.

 

[Masked]

Actually, there's nothing secretive about FGMM - It's just 4064 in Federal Brass with a Federal primer and a 175smk.

My loads are metering @50-100fps faster...But again, speed doesn't mean shit if you're not subMOA so, there's that.

We'll see.

 

[deersniper]

TMK are longer, more expensive, and offer minimum real world benefits in my experience. So I stick with the classic. For the same money as TMK you can get Berger or Lapua Scenars L on sale. Better option in my experience.

Would think tmk would offer better lethality for those of us shooting live targets

 

[Masked]

Would think tmk would offer better lethality for those of us shooting live targets

So this was something I discussed with a few other ammo manufacturers, yesterday.

At this point, making a solid 308 round isn't a problem. I'll have better quality control than FGMM, a better round than the 316 and I believe I'll find a happy medium within the M118LR that everyone can use. Maybe I'll offer a 175 and a 155 - Maybe I'll stick with Hornady and offer a 178/168 - I really haven't gotten that far.

That round won't be all that great for hunting.

I've been thinking more and more about it and I'm going to offer custom ammunition.

Nobody on the market right now is offering 100% custom loads and I think it could be an interesting adventure.

The problem with rounds like the 262 is that in you have some guys with 18" barrels and some dudes with 24" barrels. Some have OBR's and some have Mk12's - The 262 is made for the 22"+ barrel, but the dude with an 18" still wants an accurate round.

Well, science tells us that Varget isn't going to produce 2700fps out of that 18" barrel so, I'd have to swap powders and really hone a round in that works for that 18" barrel. - Something most of you don't realize.

There isn't one round that's going to fit everyone.

The 77 is great for that 24" barrel, but the 69 is going to get better performance in the 18".

Hornady's last few bullet batches have been outdoing Sierras SMK's by a longshot, maybe I'll swap to Hornady and do 75 and 68. - Again, things most of you don't realize - Bullets vary by batch - So does powder.

There isn't really one round to rule them all and in the darkness bind them.

I've settled on:

I'm going to release a sub and super 300BLK that will be a precision load, +- 0.01
I'm going to release a standard MK262 that will be a precision load, +/- 0.01...
I'm going to release a standard M118LR that will be a precision load, +/- 0.01...
I'm going to release a standard Mk248 that will be a precision load, +/- 0.01...

I can clone FGMM to it's core, but I'm not Federal - I'm a business owner and I want my own ammo made my way.

If the round isn't performing well for someone - We'll tailor a custom load to you and that'll be your load. When you call me to order ammo, I'll reproduce your load to spec.

I haven't figured out how much I'm going to charge for this service, but I know what the other reloaders charge. - I know what Ozark charged and what Freedom charges.

And again so I don't get 50 PMS - I really don't care if I beat round XYZ - I make enough off of my other contract to walk away at anytime - I'm doing this to build a reputation and provide you folks with quality ammo. Nothing more, nothing less.

If I'm 5c more than M118LR - Well, I hope you realize how much BETTER my ammo is than LC's and that for a small premium, I'm making you a custom load tailored for your firearm. Maybe that matters, maybe it doesn't - We'll find out soon enough, right?

I appreciate everyone for your input, critique and assistance thus far.

I'll be sourcing testers for everything listed above in a few weeks.

Thank you.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

The 155s....do it please

 

[Masked]

The 155s....do it please

So here's the problem with 150's.

I'd be at the same price as I am with the 175/178 ammo - It'd be $1/rd.

I'm not going to blow out ball M80gr shit like everyone else does - It's going to be a match quality round.

I can't compete with the cheap 155's you can just buy off the shelf.

If that's understood and people still want it, I'll make it, but I'll be honest, the overall consensus that I'm getting in this thread is that if it's not cheap and I can't "beat" anyone else, they're not interested, regardless of the quality...

 

[FCS]

...Nobody on the market right now is offering 100% custom loads and I think it could be an interesting adventure...

Yes, it will be an interesting adventure.

 

[FCS]

So here's the problem with 150's.

I'd be at the same price as I am with the 175/178 ammo - It'd be $1/rd.

I'm not going to blow out ball M80gr shit like everyone else does - It's going to be a match quality round.

I can't compete with the cheap 155's you can just buy off the shelf.

If that's understood and people still want it, I'll make it, but I'll be honest, the overall consensus that I'm getting in this thread is that if it's not cheap and I can't "beat" anyone else, they're not interested, regardless of the quality...

Pretty sure Sixfivesavage is talking about 155 Scenar but might be talking Berger 155 VLD hunting, 155.5 Berger Full Bore, 155 Amax / ELD-M or possibly 155 SMK.

 

[Masked]

Pretty sure Sixfivesavage is talking about 155 Scenar but might be talking Berger 155 VLD hunting, 155.5 Berger Full Bore, 155 Amax / ELD-M or possibly 155 SMK.

I wasn't sure.

I assumed it was either the 155 SMK's or the Amax.

I can also hear all of you laughing at me. - Time to learn the hard way, I guess.

 

[brianf]

So here's the problem with 150's.

I'd be at the same price as I am with the 175/178 ammo - It'd be $1/rd.

I'm not going to blow out ball M80gr shit like everyone else does - It's going to be a match quality round.

I can't compete with the cheap 155's you can just buy off the shelf.

If that's understood and people still want it, I'll make it, but I'll be honest, the overall consensus that I'm getting in this thread is that if it's not cheap and I can't "beat" anyone else, they're not interested, regardless of the quality...

ill be in for a higher quality round that im not reloading myself, just dont have the time or want to give it the time anymore
can either go outside and have a catch with my kid or play with my press...it has dust on it

if i can get quality rounds that are locked down youll get my money...even though its going to be a bit more per round (every one has to make money)

already shoot copper creek (which is a step up from factory), and sent my rifle to another guy on the hide for custom reloads (6br and 260)

keep me on the short list for 308, i still shoot my AIAX with the 308 barrel

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Yea, sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the 155 scenar or the 155.5 Berger. I'm open to pricing and not holding you to anything other than the tight tolerances and quality control you keep mentioning. If you can just offer a price that's worth the performance than I think you'll be fine. Custom orders would be nice. I've had some from a highly respected company and it was terrible, so there's room in that market in my eyes. The 175s are of interest to me as well as the lighter stuff since my AX is sub 18"

 

[Masked]

Okay, I'll order some 155 bullets then.

Right now, Hornady is performing exceedingly well so, that's what it'll be for now.

I may have some 148's on hand.

I'll offer a 155 as well.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

I sure as hell hope you have better luck with hornady stuff than I have had about a year ago. I switched back to bergers after having issues with 140 eld projectiles.

 

[Masked]

I sure as hell hope you have better luck with hornady stuff than I have had about a year ago. I switched back to bergers after having issues with 140 eld projectiles.

It's just what I have on hand.

If the bullet doesn't perform as expected, there are 10 more behind it...

No worries.

 

[Luvman]

It's just what I have on hand.

If the bullet doesn't perform as expected, there are 10 more behind it...

No worries.

I’m interested in .308 match ammo in 155, 175/178, and 185 juggernauts. I have no concerns with current expected pricing.

I would also be happy to buy some of the test ammo and test in 20 and 24” barrels. Both shoot sub half minute for 5 shots with FGMM 175.

 

[Basher]

If you go Hornady for the “262,” the 73 may be a better choice. Sure, the 75 has a tiny edge, but it won’t fit in a standard AR mag to my knowledge, meaning you’d be stuck with selling purely to bolt gun guys, most of which will go for a heavier weight anyway. Sacrificing a tiny bit of performance with the 73 ELD-M means you can market to both guys, see how it goes, and then consider adding a heavier .223 in down the road. Just a thought.

FYI, I’m an 18” guy. I wanted a 20”, but the right deal came around at 18”, and I’d still prefer the 77SMK over a 69SMK.

 

[Masked]

I’m interested in .308 match ammo in 155, 175/178, and 185 juggernauts. I have no concerns with current expected pricing.

I would also be happy to buy some of the test ammo and test in 20 and 24” barrels. Both shoot sub half minute for 5 shots with FGMM 175.

Right now, I think most guys are interested in 155/175/178.

For 155's:
Sierra makes a custom 155.
Barnes makes a good 155.
Hornady makes a solid 155.

For 175's:
Nosler makes a solid 175 in the RDF.
Sierra's batch is decent, not great, 175 SMK's.
Nosler makes another 175 - Custom Competition.
Barnes makes a solid 175.

For 178's:
Hornady Match makes a good 178.
Hornady ELD-X is a solid 178.

As for Juggernauts, that shit is expensive. Even I'm looking at 45c-50c/bullet. - I'd easily be at $1.25/round and I believe Federal sells them at $1.30.

I haven't really decided what bullets I want to use long-term, but considering the performance difference is negligible on the 175/178's, I'm just going to use up the AMAX that I have and then swap to SMK's or maybe even the Nosler's.

If you go Hornady for the “262,” the 73 may be a better choice. Sure, the 75 has a tiny edge, but it won’t fit in a standard AR mag to my knowledge, meaning you’d be stuck with selling purely to bolt gun guys, most of which will go for a heavier weight anyway. Sacrificing a tiny bit of performance with the 73 ELD-M means you can market to both guys, see how it goes, and then consider adding a heavier .223 in down the road. Just a thought.

FYI, I’m an 18” guy. I wanted a 20”, but the right deal came around at 18”, and I’d still prefer the 77SMK over a 69SMK.

That's where I'm at actually.

For 5.56 - I'm going to offer a 75gr to start and then push out to a 55gr.
For 308 - I'm going to offer a 178gr to start and then push out to a 155gr.
For 300BLK - I'm going to offer a 125gr super and a 208gr sub - To start.
For 300WM - I'm sticking purely to the to spec MK248 Mod1 - 220SMK @ 2850fps.

I'll more than happily make custom hunting rounds for anyone that wants them - Understand please that V-Shok is expensive, Barnes expanding bullets are pricey...I can't do shit about that. So my price is going to go up purely based on the cost of the bullet.

I'm still working on pricing with my accountant. - I need to be somewhere, where this is worth my effort; I'm not saying that to knock anyone or anything - The overhead on being an 06 is substantial and I have to make sure that I'm at least CMY'ing myself.

Rant:
If you're going to complain I'm too expensive - Go buy them somewhere else - I'll get more time with the kids. Seriously.

I'm here to offer precision shooters, quality, precise and available ammunition.

If I don't beat XYZ - I don't care. I'm not sacrificing quality for quantity - I'm not going to be another Ozark or Southwest or the shit-show that Freedom has become.

Quite frankly my personal goal is to beat Lapua. Their 167 and 185 is $2/round and their loads are +/- 0.01 which is exactly where I want to be - At half the price.
End Rant.

If I'm going to start taking custom orders, I have to do them in advance so, I'm working on a way to do that, that makes sense.

I'm working with Frank on being a vendor and supporting the site. He's thinking about it.

I'll be sourcing testers in a few weeks. - Trying to get all of my ducks in a row, first.

Shout out to @FCS - He's a good dude!

Thank you everyone, again.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Over a decade back, I worked up a modification of an M118 load borrowed from Accurate Shooter, and published the load here (as well as there).

I won't republish it here and now because I don't want to influence the success of your venture, which I heartily support.

IMHO, there is a significant resurgence of .308 shooting going on in the LR community, and I support it. I had dropped .308 back in 2002 when I jumped that ship in favor of the .260 Remington. I'm back onboard, even while staying fully committed to the .260, and must also acknowledge the serious popularity of the 6.5 CM.

I think there's lots of room for your venture, and wish you the best of fortune in the project.

Greg

 

[Masked]

Over a decade back, I worked up a modification of an M118 load borrowed from Accurate Shooter, and published the load here (as well as there).

I won't republish it here and now because I don't want to influence the success of your venture, which I heartily support.

IMHO, there is a significant resurgence of .308 shooting going on in the LR community, and I support it. I had dropped .308 back in 2002 when I jumped that ship in favor of the .260 Remington. I'm back onboard, even while staying fully committed to the .260, and must also acknowledge the serious popularity of the 6.5 CM.

I think there's lots of room for your venture, and wish you the best of fortune in the project.

Greg

Actually, interestingly enough - Before I sourced the original specs on the pre-04 round - I was using the one published here. Have it printed above my bench.

It was still up on the old forum and I printed in before the move - I lurked on SH for a long time before becoming a member.

Same with MK248 - Much of the sleuthing done on the hide was incredibly close to the actual round.

I will eventually push out into 6 and 6.5 - I just want to get my bearings first. Find out what works, what doesn't work and go from there.

Thank you for your support sir and for the information you guys provided so long ago.

 

[FCS]

Shout out @ Masked - good guy working to bring better ammo to shooters wanting higher quality, higher precision ammo. More ammo options for shooters is always a good thing!
Custom ammo isn't for everybody but if you want to maximize the rifle & shooters potential, you load your own or find a manufacturer that will do custom ammo. Yes, custom costs more. High probablity you will not see an advantage short range but you will see an advantage at distance.

 

[whiskey_papa]

Right now, I think most guys are interested in 155/175/178.

For 155's:
Sierra makes a custom 155.
Barnes makes a good 155.
Hornady makes a solid 155.

For 175's:
Nosler makes a solid 175 in the RDF.
Sierra's batch is decent, not great, 175 SMK's.
Nosler makes another 175 - Custom Competition.
Barnes makes a solid 175.

For 178's:
Hornady Match makes a good 178.
Hornady ELD-X is a solid 178.

As for Juggernauts, that shit is expensive. Even I'm looking at 45c-50c/bullet. - I'd easily be at $1.25/round and I believe Federal sells them at $1.30.

I haven't really decided what bullets I want to use long-term, but considering the performance difference is negligible on the 175/178's, I'm just going to use up the AMAX that I have and then swap to SMK's or maybe even the Nosler's.



That's where I'm at actually.

For 5.56 - I'm going to offer a 75gr to start and then push out to a 55gr.
For 308 - I'm going to offer a 178gr to start and then push out to a 155gr.
For 300BLK - I'm going to offer a 125gr super and a 208gr sub - To start.
For 300WM - I'm sticking purely to the to spec MK248 Mod1 - 220SMK @ 2850fps.

I'll more than happily make custom hunting rounds for anyone that wants them - Understand please that V-Shok is expensive, Barnes expanding bullets are pricey...I can't do shit about that. So my price is going to go up purely based on the cost of the bullet.

I'm still working on pricing with my accountant. - I need to be somewhere, where this is worth my effort; I'm not saying that to knock anyone or anything - The overhead on being an 06 is substantial and I have to make sure that I'm at least CMY'ing myself.

Rant:
If you're going to complain I'm too expensive - Go buy them somewhere else - I'll get more time with the kids. Seriously.

I'm here to offer precision shooters, quality, precise and available ammunition.

If I don't beat XYZ - I don't care. I'm not sacrificing quality for quantity - I'm not going to be another Ozark or Southwest or the shit-show that Freedom has become.

Quite frankly my personal goal is to beat Lapua. Their 167 and 185 is $2/round and their loads are +/- 0.01 which is exactly where I want to be - At half the price.
End Rant.

If I'm going to start taking custom orders, I have to do them in advance so, I'm working on a way to do that, that makes sense.

I'm working with Frank on being a vendor and supporting the site. He's thinking about it.

I'll be sourcing testers in a few weeks. - Trying to get all of my ducks in a row, first.

Shout out to @FCS - He's a good dude!

Thank you everyone, again.

Not going to release specifics, but according to AB, the 175 Nosler RDF has a higher BC than the 175 SMKs, and from what I've seen, they're more cost-effective. It would be my choice if I were to handload. I would seriously consider switching to this load if you could pull it off for $1/rd as you say you can.

 

[Eustice]

Sorry I’m a bit late to reply. I’d definitely be interested in a 77gr. 5.56 round. Currently I’m shooting the Federal FC262 with really good results. Posted velocity on the box was 2764 and my average (18” barrel) was 2765 from a labradar.

Federal has quit making that round though. Word was it was because of some issues with Black Hills and would be replaced by calling it something else but nothing yet.

I’d be interested so long as the price is competitive with other brands. I know quality is a factor but there is a point we all reach where that extra .25 MOA accuracy might not justify the price increase. I’ll be interested to see what you come up with.