Nice case. This vendor had some proper Ammo recently but it’s out of stock now. You should signup for alerts as 2 boxes in your case with that IDF rifle would be a nice addition to your project:
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IDF Mauser M-66 SP
- Thread starter buffalowinter
- Start date
Looks perfect! The eBay ad showed it darker. Glad it looks like this, and fits correctly.
All sorts of pure, unadulterated AWESOMENESS in this thread! Amazing............
Here are a few shots of mine. I'm using the Schmidt & Bender Classic 2.5-10x56 scope that gol1 identified as the final type of issue scope for the rifle. I also have one of the Photonics scopes for it. Both are pictured.
My rifle is a refurb, old and banged up, early serial number (467xx, placing it somewhere between 1977 and 1980), but a late barrel (KB, 1991). I've added a case, cleaning rod, Israeli 7x50 Steiner binos, and an Israeli bino case to the growing money pit that is this wonderful rifle.
My rifle is a refurb, old and banged up, early serial number (467xx, placing it somewhere between 1977 and 1980), but a late barrel (KB, 1991). I've added a case, cleaning rod, Israeli 7x50 Steiner binos, and an Israeli bino case to the growing money pit that is this wonderful rifle.
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What little I know of these is from internet gossip, but here's what I THINK I know:
Mauser made them from 1975 until 1985 (another source suggests 1995). Mine is Israeli marked and has a 1991 barrel, so I think it was one of the last in their service. The M24 came out in 1988, Israel adopted it soon after, at which point the Mausers would have become obsolete. Springfield imported about 100 of these Mausers in 1999/2000, so they'd been out of service in Israel for a while by that point.
Classic Firearms seems to have imported ten from the Italian Carabinieri earlier this year, but I can't guess how long they had been out of service before Italy sold them off.
Various sources suggest their use by Italy and Israel as noted above, and also GSG-9 in Germany, the Indian special forces, and possibly the British SAS.
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Thought some of you might be interested in these eyecups. They look a lot like the ones posted earlier (post #62), and work on the Photonics, Nimrod, and S&B scopes.
I am not connected with the seller. It’s just nice to find something related to this rifle that is relatively inexpensive!
I am not connected with the seller. It’s just nice to find something related to this rifle that is relatively inexpensive!
GERMAN ARMY WWII REPRO K98 scope RUBBER EYE CUP flared type | eBay
This is a well made reproduction of a German WWII flared type rubber eye cup for the K98 Mauser rifle scope. The eye cup served not only to make shooting more comfortable but also to help reduce the glare from the lens.
www.ebay.com
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Neat rifle, thanks for the pics. Twos question re the Photonic scope, which I presume is 6x power. I have seen various markings on IDF elevation turrets, and I was curious if your scope is marked 'M852' or 'M118' or just blank. (Attached is a dial marked 'M118' on a Swarovski 10x scope, and a 6x Photonics for the IDF M14, which is marked "M14" of course. Also attached is a picture of well-used IDF SP-66 that has the 6x40x Nimrod scope, that I think was also used on the Gali sniper rifle)
Second question, what reticles do your scopes have? My guess is the Photonics has the 103 or 104 reticle (see attached 3rd pic). Just curious about this topic. (BTW, I read that the IDF adopted the M24 in 1997-98, which would be years after all the US military orders were completed, but not sure if that timeline is 100% accurate). Anyhow, thanks for sharing your pics of that neat old Mauser. I like that old-school rifle and its interesting stock.
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@Random Guy ,
Privilege to chat with you--I've gotten a lot of valuable info from your posts on other rifles. To your questions: I have two externally identical 6x Photonics scopes, one marked M118, another marked M14. Both use the Kahles 104 reticle.
I've written a couple of paragraphs to summarize what I think I've learned about the optics for the SP66 as used by the Israelis. I AM NOT NOT NOT AN AUTHORITY. I welcome comments and data-backed corrections. Some of the best info is from @gol1 , who carried one of these rifles early in his career. As an aside, based on his comments, I do not believe that Nimrod scopes were used on the Mauser 66SP.
Your comment raised two questions for me:
- Is the Swarovski 10x marked with an Israeli catalog number? Was it used with any Israeli rifles?
- Were any Israeli BDC turrets marked M852, or were the scopes calibrated for that ammo all marked M14?
Here's my current summary of "internet wisdom" on Israeli scopes for the 66SP:
Optics
The SP66 is not fitted with iron sights. The rifle normally shipped from the factory with a Mauser-marked Zeiss Diavari ZA 1.5-6x variable power scope, but Israel is believed not to have used these scopes, opting instead for a series of purpose-built sniper scopes. The Zeiss scope mounted to rings on a heavy milled quick-detach (QD) lever-secured scope base that was used with the later IDF scopes as well.
Early IDF SP66s used a 6x42 fixed power scope closely resembling the Kahles ZF95, produced under license by Swarovski subsidiary company Photonic Optics. This scope is marked near the eyepiece with the IDF catalog number 1000 85143. The scope reticle closely resembles Kahles reticle 104, with 1-meter ranging marks from 200 to 1000 meters. It is tritium-illuminated and has a fixed parallax, with a bullet drop compensation (BDC) elevation turret calibrated for the 175gr M118 bullet. Most, if not all, of the ninety SP66 rifles imported and sold by Springfield Armory in the late 1990s carried this scope, but without the proprietary Mauser milled QD mount.
In the mid-1990s the IDF fielded a similar Photonic scope to replace the Nimrod scopes then in use on their M14 sniper rifles. Instead of the earlier scopes’ M118 turrets, the new scopes used BDC elevation turrets marked “M14” and calibrated for the 168gr M852 round. These scopes carried the IDF catalog number 1000 86042. While these “M14” scopes were likely not used on the SP66 in Israeli service, they are ideal for the many SP66 rifles that prefer 168gr match ammunition to 175gr.
The Photonic scope is reported by at least one source to have been replaced by a Hensoldt 6x fixed scope, but this author has not been able to either examine an example of the scope or authoritatively confirm its use with the SP66.
The final scope known to have been used by IDF snipers on the SP66 is the Schmidt & Bender 2.5-10x56 variable power scope. The Schmidt & Bender scope’s variable power was especially useful in urban settings, where snipers often require a wide field of view to identify threats, while its 10x maximum setting remained useful for engagements at the extremes of the rifle’s 800m effective range. This scope’s S&B No. 7 reticle is of fixed parallax and not illuminated, and has an adjustable dipoter. It is marked with Israeli catalog number 1000-83418 along the center of its 30mm tube.
Privilege to chat with you--I've gotten a lot of valuable info from your posts on other rifles. To your questions: I have two externally identical 6x Photonics scopes, one marked M118, another marked M14. Both use the Kahles 104 reticle.
I've written a couple of paragraphs to summarize what I think I've learned about the optics for the SP66 as used by the Israelis. I AM NOT NOT NOT AN AUTHORITY. I welcome comments and data-backed corrections. Some of the best info is from @gol1 , who carried one of these rifles early in his career. As an aside, based on his comments, I do not believe that Nimrod scopes were used on the Mauser 66SP.
Your comment raised two questions for me:
- Is the Swarovski 10x marked with an Israeli catalog number? Was it used with any Israeli rifles?
- Were any Israeli BDC turrets marked M852, or were the scopes calibrated for that ammo all marked M14?
Here's my current summary of "internet wisdom" on Israeli scopes for the 66SP:
Optics
The SP66 is not fitted with iron sights. The rifle normally shipped from the factory with a Mauser-marked Zeiss Diavari ZA 1.5-6x variable power scope, but Israel is believed not to have used these scopes, opting instead for a series of purpose-built sniper scopes. The Zeiss scope mounted to rings on a heavy milled quick-detach (QD) lever-secured scope base that was used with the later IDF scopes as well.
Early IDF SP66s used a 6x42 fixed power scope closely resembling the Kahles ZF95, produced under license by Swarovski subsidiary company Photonic Optics. This scope is marked near the eyepiece with the IDF catalog number 1000 85143. The scope reticle closely resembles Kahles reticle 104, with 1-meter ranging marks from 200 to 1000 meters. It is tritium-illuminated and has a fixed parallax, with a bullet drop compensation (BDC) elevation turret calibrated for the 175gr M118 bullet. Most, if not all, of the ninety SP66 rifles imported and sold by Springfield Armory in the late 1990s carried this scope, but without the proprietary Mauser milled QD mount.
In the mid-1990s the IDF fielded a similar Photonic scope to replace the Nimrod scopes then in use on their M14 sniper rifles. Instead of the earlier scopes’ M118 turrets, the new scopes used BDC elevation turrets marked “M14” and calibrated for the 168gr M852 round. These scopes carried the IDF catalog number 1000 86042. While these “M14” scopes were likely not used on the SP66 in Israeli service, they are ideal for the many SP66 rifles that prefer 168gr match ammunition to 175gr.
The Photonic scope is reported by at least one source to have been replaced by a Hensoldt 6x fixed scope, but this author has not been able to either examine an example of the scope or authoritatively confirm its use with the SP66.
The final scope known to have been used by IDF snipers on the SP66 is the Schmidt & Bender 2.5-10x56 variable power scope. The Schmidt & Bender scope’s variable power was especially useful in urban settings, where snipers often require a wide field of view to identify threats, while its 10x maximum setting remained useful for engagements at the extremes of the rifle’s 800m effective range. This scope’s S&B No. 7 reticle is of fixed parallax and not illuminated, and has an adjustable dipoter. It is marked with Israeli catalog number 1000-83418 along the center of its 30mm tube.
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Thanks for your informative post. Re your questions:
1. The Swarovski 10x was not an IDF scope, but it did have the interesting M118 marked turret. I don't think the IDF ever used that scope.
2. The only M852 turrets I have seen are on what is noted as an IDF Nimrod scope with the Galil scope mount (see attached pic #1).
I am also NOT an authority on IDF rifles, but here's what I have surmised in general.
The earliest post-war IDF scopes put on IDF K98 sniper rifles is the OD green, 4x Wilde-Herrbrugg scopes. It was attached via a double-claw type mount. (see last pic of two K98 snipers which I assume are the predecessor to the SP-66.) It is seen in pic #2 and #5. I suspect this dates to the late 1950s - see pic #9 for a nice original example with transport case, etc.
In the 1970s some of those scopes were mounted on the then new M14 sniper rifles, as seen in pic #3. I think that pic dates to the 1983 invasion of Lebanon, but I am not sure. You can see the front claw of the scope.
Around 1984 they updated the M14 scopes to the 6x40mm 'Nimrod' scope. These do not have a rubber sun shade. They were also used on the Gali sniper rifle, apparently with M852 turrets. Picture 4 shows two IDF M14s, top w/ the Nimrod (circa mid 1980s) and the bottom one with the later 'Futonic' scope with rubber sun shade (circa mid-1990s). Both are 6x and I think both have the type 104 reticle. Pics 6 & 7 is literature referring to IDF M14 and Galil.
Around 1994 the IDF made its final update to the M14 sniper with the 'Photonic' (edit: incorrectly called 'Futonic' in some sources) 6x42mm scope that has the large rubber sunshade. I think these are made by Swarkovski/Kahles, and the large rubber sun shade is only on the IDF scopes. They were common on eBay back in 2018-19 from a particular seller. They have turrets makes "M14" and I think you are correct is likely for the M852 ammo.
I don't know enough about the M-66 to make any comments about IDF optics, but it sounds like you have pieced together the optic history.
One odd thing about the K98s in the 5th pic, the one on the top has the Nimrod scope but with M118 marked turrets, which is interesting.
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Thanks--that fills in some gaps.
But it's funny that we aren't even sure how to spell the company's name. A post in the M14 forum says that it's called "Futonic" in "Lee Emerson's excellent book on the M14 Rifle History and Development, Vol 1, 2016 edition, page 146 ."
Meanwhile this website claims "Photonic" as a subsidiary of Swarovski. https://www.photonic-security.at/
I'm inclined to go with the latter source, but could be mistaken.
But it's funny that we aren't even sure how to spell the company's name. A post in the M14 forum says that it's called "Futonic" in "Lee Emerson's excellent book on the M14 Rifle History and Development, Vol 1, 2016 edition, page 146 ."
Meanwhile this website claims "Photonic" as a subsidiary of Swarovski. https://www.photonic-security.at/
I'm inclined to go with the latter source, but could be mistaken.
And a nice box of Samson to complete the package... Actually, there are some "IDF Sniper pouches" on GB or eBay. But I think they are being sold as all snipery, when they were probably lipstick cases or for holding lox. I suspect generic pouches, so have not sprung for one!
Thanks for the Ammo box fellow 'Hide guy who shall remain nameless!
Sirhr
I love this thread and I love Mausers. Just because a country changes from one brand to another DOES NOT make a Mauser M-66 Obsolete. The rifle holds as many rounds as the M24 and it's just as accurate. It's probably a faster cycling rifle too!
The overabundance of supply is probably what caused the M-66 to go away in favor of the M24. Not accuracy, not cyclic ability. It even had external box magazine, which the M24 DID NOT have. So, in all it was a better weapon. It was probably stupid political shit behind the move.
FWIW, @buffalowinter showed us some pretty nice groups from his M-66.
@gol1 Do you remember which night vision optics were used with the Mauser 66SP?
My Zeiss Orion I fits perfectly on the factory STANAG mount (the big one that slides on to the rail and locks with a lever), and is low enough to use comfortably, but is it the correct scope for this?
I'll use it regardless, just interested in the historically correct info.
Thanks,
Trog
Hi
If I remember correctly it was either an pvs 2/4
And later we had the simrad kn 200
If I remember correctly it was either an pvs 2/4
And later we had the simrad kn 200
Nice rifles guys. I have one of the SP66’s that Classic was selling. They came with the original scope and case. I seen a few pictures here posted of my case and the rubber cup for the scope. Heres my rifle its not the IDF . This one came from Italy.
Is that Carabinieri or Army? It's a gorgeous rifle! Do you have case, etc. for it? I'm going to share that picture with a friend out in Indiana. Former Italian Paratrooper, then Caribinieri. Now a Police Lieutenant in the USA and US Citizen. Awesome guy. He would love to see this!
More pix, please! Very cool.
Sirhr
I second Sirhr's request for more photos!
I really love that heavy factory scope base--I have several of them that I picked up unused a while back, along with a few of the factory STANAG bases. Supremely stable, quick to mount and dismount, only one idiot-proof moving part, and great for holding zero.
Do you have one of the longer STANAG bases? I put one on an Orion night vision scope and it seems as stable, but I haven't had a chance to shoot with it yet. Would love to hear your experience.
Best,
Trog
Here’s a few pics I just snapped . Yes I have the case and eye cup for the scope . I’ll dig up those pictures .
This tape came on my case . Umbria after looking it up is a region of central Italy . The number on the tape being the ser.#
No I dont have any other bases.
My experience? Short and simple. It was my 50th Birthday 12/2019 and I saw Classic was selling these rifles. Thinking it would be a great addition to put with my SSG82 I bought it. Sorta crazy. but, I have yet to fire it.
They’re neat rifles. And with only 400 made, better than 1% of all SP66 owners are on this thread.
I'm 90% sure I have one of those cases from an estate sale somewhere, but I don't see much info online. Any idea what they go for? and Is there any features or markings that make it worth more, or will tell me if it was part of a kit at one point?
You'd have to check GunBroker or eBay. Depends on condition, as they were used with quite a few different rifles, notably the SP66 and the USMC M40 sniper rifle.
(Edited because I answered a question not asked.)
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Most people have no idea what they are... if you ID them, no Clue how high the prices might go.
But I paid $70 for mine. And $200 for shipping from Germany. And was really happy. The seller thought I was woklenkuckkucksheim.... Look it up. But I was happy as hell!
Sirhr
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I didn't see much on there. maybe Ill take some pictures when I find it and post it up, see if it looks correct. And I'm one of those people who, until I saw you post, had no idea what it was. I used to haul the trap gun in it, because it was the only hard case we had long enough. I'm also pretty sure they guy who had it before me had a nameplate put on it, so there goes the sell value.
I don't care about selling it for X amount, but it is interesting to see what things are worth. I'll keep and eye out
I don't care about selling it for X amount, but it is interesting to see what things are worth. I'll keep and eye out
Sp66 poped up on Gunbroker.
Said , They bought it from Classic Firearms.
That’s a big ticket item for a NR seller . Too risky for a buyer IMO. Unless you lives in sellers state and picked it up.
Said , They bought it from Classic Firearms.
That’s a big ticket item for a NR seller . Too risky for a buyer IMO. Unless you lives in sellers state and picked it up.
Anyone know the approximate value for an excellent Mauser SR-86 with wood stock and scope ?
No modifications.
Given equal condition to the Mauser 66S is the SR-86 priced less or carries more value with collectors ?
No modifications.
Given equal condition to the Mauser 66S is the SR-86 priced less or carries more value with collectors ?
I like the original scope base. Those things are SOLID. Pretty sure I have the last few left on Earth, I've put them on a couple of different scopes.
But I agree, I wouldn't buy an item that expensive remotely from a NR seller.
The percentage of 66’s ever manufactured that is now in this thread… continues to rise!
Nice rifle and thanks for posting!!
Sirhr
Nice rifle and thanks for posting!!
Sirhr
Great looking rifle! Based on my small (15) sample of recorded serial numbers, your rifle could have been one of the early ones (1970s) the German GSG-9 counterterrorist unit used. The ones that went to Israel and Italy had a prefix of SG, instead of just G.
Barrel dates to 1980 (IO code) but is numbered differently from an Italian 66SP import from the same year, SG475xx. Post #122 above shows another Italian rifle dating back to 1977, again with an SG prefix.
So I'm guessing the G prefix rifles stayed in Germany. Hard to make a solid hypothesis from only two G-prefixed numbers, but it can be a working guess. Most recent rifle's scope mounting rail is different from our Israeli ones, and also different from the purported GSG9 rifle (that one's scope bell attaches to a sleeve over the barrel, it's a huge Diavari Victory 6-24x72 scope). Would love to learn more about the origins of this most recent rifle.
So I'm guessing the G prefix rifles stayed in Germany. Hard to make a solid hypothesis from only two G-prefixed numbers, but it can be a working guess. Most recent rifle's scope mounting rail is different from our Israeli ones, and also different from the purported GSG9 rifle (that one's scope bell attaches to a sleeve over the barrel, it's a huge Diavari Victory 6-24x72 scope). Would love to learn more about the origins of this most recent rifle.
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I can tell you that the Gentleman I bought mine from had another one that was identical except for the Brand/model of the optic: it was the same 1~6x looked the same as the Zeiss on mine but wasn't. As soon as I can arrange it, I'll get the details otherwise same case, look, markings, etc.
The forward scope ring on my rifle was fitted with a top half with a picatinny provision, which the sister rifle did not have....no idea what might have been mounted on it.
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Anybody know the approximate value for the Italian spec'd rifles with the optic and mount in excellent condition ?
There were a couple listed on gunjoker a few months back, now there's only one with incorrect mounts/scope listing a Buy it now price of $6848. and starting bid of $6K which I think is a thousand more than when it (or one like it was listed before)
Last Sept. I had one on the Table at the Syracuse Gun Show for $5,800, there were people interested in the Rifle, but not the price.
When times are slow it is difficult to sell even cheap items at a show. Last show I exhibited at I did not sell anything and went home on Saturday. I had cheap items to moderately priced items. Almost nobody even stopped and asked for prices. Hi-Points to Colt AR-15's OEM-2 and other items - all NIB. Can't imagine trying to sell expensive items at a show. No more gun shows for me.
You may just want to change where you go to gunshows. I know when money is tight, guns are hard to sell. If there's a panic on, they will sell. NEVER give a lo-baller anything close to what he wants. If nothing else, interest is good. People may not have the cash on hand for a med/high ticket item, but the next gunshow they'll plan on having it or how to get it.
Point is, don't give up on gunshows. They can be a goldmine for sellers and buyers. They're also our right to sell what we want without too much interference.
Those cases, look exactly like the ones we used on my HS rifle team, back in the 80's. This thread was worth it just for that.
Still looking for an equivelant today...something between the cheap flimsy cases and a bulky pelican
Still looking for an equivelant today...something between the cheap flimsy cases and a bulky pelican
9800 Weatherproof Protective Rifle Case, Long, Black
Amazing deals on this 9800 Weatherproof Rifle Case, Long Black at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com
9800 Weatherproof Protective Rifle Case, Long, Black
Amazing deals on this 9800 Weatherproof Rifle Case, Long Black at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
Looking for something about 40 to 44"
Maybe a plane AW..or just go aluminum
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