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Ingenuity Precision trickler
- Thread starter NiteQwill
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He did tell me it's a completely different design from Adam's Autothrow. Works a completely different way....
Yep, he said no Bluetooth. No iPad or tablets need...just a simple keypad..
I have owned my IP trickier for just over 6 months now and have used it a lot.
It has no keypad but works with the Autothrow App on my iPhone perfectly.
It was very easy to set up and I had it functional inside 30 minutes right out of the box. I already had a V3 and trickier running off a FX120 but was disappointed in the trickle time. With some powders it was constantly getting backed up in the tube. The IP is much faster and much more accurate than what I had before and I think a great addition to my V3. I feel no need to even look at a VF4 now.
I finally got my V4 after a long wait maybe a month or so after getting my IG....never even opened the V4 I was so happy with the IG and sold it.
The IG auto throw is very much needed because Adam isn't selling v3 autothrows anymore. To get one you need to buy 1 second hand or throw charges manually...
Funny you say that...was 1 of the things Paul mentioned when I was talking to him last time. That the autotrickler products are loud and his will.not be...
I have not had a chance to use my IG yet. I am going to have to manually throw for now.
Is the slider easy to find a sweet spot with? I know it says needs to be adjusted for different powder types in the manual.
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The IP us very easy to do everything with. It's simple and works very well. I also just sold me v4 without even checking it out because of the IP
I cannot tell from the teaser video - will it use the same Ingenuity Precision trickler, or is that part going to be new, too?
What I mean is - I can't really wait to start handloading until fall. If I buy the IP trickler now, will it upgrade to his all in one system later, or will the IP be obsolete?
What I mean is - I can't really wait to start handloading until fall. If I buy the IP trickler now, will it upgrade to his all in one system later, or will the IP be obsolete?
IP Trickler is what it uses. The new parts are the Electronics/keypad for your scale to replace the Autotrickler electronics and the dropper...
Paul actually told me how to make the V3 thrower a little less noisy. Rapping some teflon tape around the thread of the adjustment bolt. It dampers vibrations. Great tip, it works for me. Thanks Paul.
I'll do this! As I'm getting some set point drift on the thread adjustment rod caused by the vibrations.
Here is a vid of the complete new system. I think we are ditching the keypad for a large touch screen to make things easier to access as we keep adding more options . What do you guys think?
All of it will be backward compatible with the powder meter. You can use your old side stand or like this. Trying to make it work with several different scales for different overall price points so the user can decide what fits their needs. Paul
Lol, not yet!
Its going to expand usability to pistol shooters all the way to ELR guys. It will throw all the way down to several gr. with +/- .1gr precision or better by just the dumper in less than 1/10th of a second or dump way over 100gr in a second. The biggest thing is that it will just do what it needs to do out of the box with very little tweaking , just as 1000's of customers can attest that the powder meter does!
Hook this up to a Dillon 750/1100 and it would be an ultimate winner. Kind of like how people are using the Prometheus.
Hoping for fall release it everything comes together. Dump accuracy depends on powder and amount, anywhere from +/-sub 1/10thgr to +/-.5gr. Just depends on if your trying to dump 3gr of ball pistol powder or 170gr of N570.
These things only work well with magnetic restoration balances. Those are not cheap. The FX120 of the cheapest that I know of that gives a digital output.
So if you expect to get one using a budget load cell scale, prepare to be disappointed.
So if you expect to get one using a budget load cell scale, prepare to be disappointed.
No one is expecting to use a budget load cell. I don't know why that was even mentioned? At a minimum, everyone here who owns a IP or multiple IPs, uses a fx120.
You would be wrong. Creedmoor scale has better screen resolution .01gr and still accurate enough to show a single kernel for a much lower price point. The tradeoff will be time to complete each charge. Refresh rate is much slower, but for the difference in price its a very acceptable trade off that will fit some users needs.
I agree on the touchscreen. Even though the keypad and small display appears to work just great and often “less is more” a touchscreen would allow more UI improvements/changes/features down the road with software updates.
Regarding the video… I like what I’m seeing with your trickler programming methodology, at least how I think you may be programming it based on the video.
Adam has a ramp down rate which gradually slows the trickler down as the weight approaches to the target weight, and sometimes the trickling speed bounces between fast and slow or gets stuck on slow as it’s always polling a moving and non-stabilized scale weight. On your video above it appears you are taking the stabilized weight after the bulk drop, then doing a momentary pulse on the trickler and waiting for the scale to stabilize again after that trickler pulse, then possibly using that stabilized weight reading to calculate how many grains per degree / notches of trickler wheel rotation that the trickler dispensed on that initial trickler pulse, then you’re pulsing the trickler a second time using that calculated degrees/notches per grain calculation to pulse the trickler a second time for a precise amount of rotation to hit the final target weight without going into a long cycle of extremely slow trickler rotation to slowly hit the target weight as the autotrickler does. Your apparent method of hitting the trickler with an initial pulse and then waiting for that initial stable weight reading to get fed back to the controller before the second pulse also self-corrects for the drop time of the powder from the trickler to the cup.
While the video only shows 2 cycles the trickler behavior, it certainly seems to avoid some of the issues where Adam’s autotrickler either bounces back and forth between a faster and slower final trickling speed when the scale isn’t fully stabilized, or it gets stuck on the slowest speed for longer than necessary.
Of course, I could be totally wrong on your programming approach, but whatever you're doing appears to be working great.
How does it react to the trickler wheel binding up, which does sometimes occasionally happen with your trickler and certain powders even when the trickler cup and notched wheel are spotlessly clean? I'm guessing it will attempt to drive the trickler again to hit the target weight.
I think this may be the dispenser that gets me to finally retire my old Autotrickler V1 with custom programming linked to a high speed servo driven Harrell’s bulk drop and an IP final trickler. Adam’s V2, V3, and V4 weren’t good enough to make me update my setup, and I don’t care for all the fussing around needed with the supertrickler nor do I like its vibratory final stage which will never be as consistent as the notched wheel IP trickler. My current “science project” setup has worked great for years, but I really like what I’m seeing here.
My only other observation is if you go with a touchscreen, don't go adding all kinds of extra tweaking parameters and options just because you can with the touchscreen interface. Maybe bury them in an advanced menu for people who can't leave anything alone, but the simpler the better-- if it runs out of the box without having to do lots of tweaking or learning you'll have very happy customers.
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So the “new” unit we’ll call it, will be a complete standalone without reliance on any AutoTrickler parts if I’m understanding correctly?
I get that the powder meter and scale will still be separate/required.
I get that the powder meter and scale will still be separate/required.
Your pretty much on the right track. It does a calibration of the dumper and disk at the very beginning one time and stores it for said powder. The key has always been the powder disk system. Its not to hard to program to get fast consistent results when the mechanical side of things is solidly engineered. This is where others fail. We have already hit a wall with the scale 20hz refresh speed. It actually takes wayyy longer than that for it to stabilize. If it had 120hz or something refresh and stable faster I could dump and finish in about 3 sec.
Yep, the math, programming, and calibration is certainly a lot easier when the trickler is consistent-- something a rotary or vibratory trickler is very lacking at compared to the notched wheel design.
I hear you on the refresh rate and stabilization time of the scale being a limiting factor (along with kernel drop time and even bounce in the cup when trying to hit a precise final target weight) but even in the current form it's still going to be plenty fast enough for most people-- especially if they use 2 identical weight cups and seat a bullet while the dispenser is getting the next charge ready. For those who like to powder an entire tray of cases before seating bullets you could always run 2 units.
While I'm waiting for your unit to hit the market, since I'm already running your trickler maybe I'll reprogram my V1 autotrickler logic for a calibrated rotation/notch vs weight dispensing method rather than the current autotrickler progressive ramp down and see how much faster I can make my current setup. The high speed servo driven Harrell's bulk drop I'm using is already quite fast and consistent; the biggest delay on my current setup is the autotrickler final stage.
Again, really nice work. Looking forward to trying one.
Everything will be backwards compatible and sold al a carte for folks that already have the powder meter
Damn it guys you are trying to make me broke
So . . . what you're saying is you'll sell me one now if I only want it to work for 6GT?
Argh! I hate being the guy in the thread who asks the stupid questions, but here goes. I know what a scale is. What is the powder meter that I will have to buy separately?
I see the scale in the video.
What powder meter is in the video if I wanted to duplicate the results I am seeing? In post #298 I see a big glass tower with stick powder in it, and it dumps powder into the cup then stops before the little trickler goes to work finishing up the dispensing to the accurate final number.
I am assuming this is the powder meter, but when I reach "Powder Meter" online I do not see anything like that. I assume it needs to be something special to work with this setup, otherwise I might as well dispense the powder by hand and then follow up with the auto trickler like CK 1.0 is doing in post # 257.
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Time to start managing expectations. Up until your reply to my post there has been no mention of things slowing down when using the Creedmoor or any other scale.
Your most vocal supporters want V3 throwing speed or faster. If not informed beforehand that the throwing speed will change depending on scale used, you will have a number of disappointed clients.
I went the AT route not because it throws to 0.02gr, but because it throws faster than I can seat bullets. Slowing things down is a deal breaker for me even if it is cheaper.
If you want to run the powder meter now as it sold, then yes you will need electronics and cables from Adam. Motors I have
As is why its being made to work with several scales. You choose how fast you need it by which scale you buy. What's not to understand?
If you want the fastest most consistent dispenser to date then pair it with the Fx120, if money is more important than your time then paired with another scale it will not be as fast but way cheaper. I let the customer decide what works for them. What other systems do you know do that?
Cool, it's a deal breaker for you. Your 1 person. It's not a deal breaker for the 1000's if not 10's of thousands of reloaders out there that want auto trickler, auto thrower or auto tickler and auto thrower capabilities but will.NEVER spend the money on a A&D etc scale.
Paul is being extremely versatile by giving ALL reloaders options and compatibility with his products. Pretty awesome if you ask me. I'm sure that requires more programing and pivoting on his part, but in all honesty, there is probably a larger client base for a lower priced scale setup than A&D type owners....even if it is a little slower.... I know F Class John tested this Creedmoor Sports scale and had excellent things to say about it...
My IP throws in half the time the AT did and it never overthrows. Even with a slower scale it’ll probably be faster.
Yup I'll be buying this upgrade to my ingenuity Trickler once it's released for sure!
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