Agree. Just drop pistol from a RCBS Uniflow directly into the case and get on with life.
Some people might be using it for subsonics, however
Some people might be using it for subsonics, however
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Ingenuity Precision trickler
- Thread starter NiteQwill
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Paul has said the trickler won’t do flake powders at all.
He also said that the small/fine ball powders wont do well.
It will do CFE223, Staball, etc, but I doubt it would do any of the small pistol stuff like AA#2,5,7.
Has anyone used it with Accurate 2230, or Ramshot X-terminator?
"You may personally be expecting to repeat your purchases every 3-5 years, but I can assure you, once a product gets good enough, you are in the minority."
Speak for yourself . It may surprise you , but you don't know everything or speak for evrryone . Some of us know the smell of snake oil when it's in the air .
That sucks. I have the AT4 now which works pretty well for pistol powder. Now I have to rethink this. I put in an preorder a fee weeks ago for the trickler.
He put out a video with small charges just the other day. N320 and the like should work very well; that flake powder, however, is probably no bueno.
Said the bulk thrower can hold a tenth itself. Boom.
I've used it a bunch for TAC ans A2520 and 6.5Staball, but those are all similar in size ball. Pretty small though and the ball powder disk works absolutely awesome with those. I just don't know about the pistol powders and flake and such and how that would work but I could see it being an issue with how the disk works and all with something that thin and small. I think just a regular manual dropper and go would be pretty accurate for stuff that small though or just using the new dropper itself? Thats definitely not my game though so...
Depends on how accurate you want your charges. I load for bolt action subs in 300BO and 338 Spectre. I plan on trying to make a 375 Spectre. I don't want thrown charges for those cartridges.
Needs vs wants is a slippery slope of an argument in the discussion of niche, high dollar, automated, reloading for precision rifle.
Yeah, 15 to 25 depending on the powder and how much you've dialed in the settings. You can calibrate and adjust speed of the large and small tubes, handoff buffer, and whatnot but if you find yourself changing powders a lot it gets tedious and I'm sure if I took more time to dial it in it would be faster. But sometimes I change over powder and toolheads and I just need to load a 20rd ladder for some load testing. I would spend 10rds trying to tune the settings.
I own a Prometheus (bill of sale and all), and two Autotricklers modified with very early IP tricklers (best I can see, the difference is mostly in anodizing). I was an early poster here praising the ip trickler, along with at least one other member (I know because he helped me get an early pre-release version).
They each have their own place. They are both really, really well designed and executed products that work great.
There is no patent issue with the disc measure. The IP has a fairly different mechanism/evolution of the disc measuring mouse trap that is apparent when you compare them side by side on a bench. It’s not just a notched disc turning in a cylinder.
I like the Prometheus mounted on my Dillon 550. But there is a HUGE downside, which is that it really is a pain in the dick to change your powder load. If you want to load 500 rounds, ok, it’s worth it. But to do a ladder, or just load up 50 rounds of 6.5 something with 4350 when your setup is dialed in for 6br with varget, it’s a pain in the ass. No comparison to the ease of Autotrickler and IP. But on the flip side, TO ME if I’m loading a few hundred rounds on the Dillon 550 I’d rather use the Prometheus because of workflow issues. It loads faster for me then the alternative of dumping powder in cases in a loading block then loading separately. But here again, if I’m loading (a) something I don’t have the 550 set up for, or (b) a couple hundred rounds or less with a different powder charge, it’s almost a no brained to use the ip setup. It just works well. It’s like flying commercial somewhere you can drive to in 4 hours. You’ll get there at the same time, but once the airplane is in the air time sure seems to go faster.
Also, I might as well get it out in the open, Autotrickler v4 was the biggest piece of shit I’ve ever bought. Even v3 now kind of sucks because I firmly believe Adam deliberately modified the app to make the trickler turn sloooooowwwwwlllllyyyyyyy thereby diminishing performance of the IP setup using v3 stepper motors.
I have no doubts that Paul will have the product right before he sends one out the door. I will probably beg him to let me buy and try one before you guys <— not sure it’ll work though.
They each have their own place. They are both really, really well designed and executed products that work great.
There is no patent issue with the disc measure. The IP has a fairly different mechanism/evolution of the disc measuring mouse trap that is apparent when you compare them side by side on a bench. It’s not just a notched disc turning in a cylinder.
I like the Prometheus mounted on my Dillon 550. But there is a HUGE downside, which is that it really is a pain in the dick to change your powder load. If you want to load 500 rounds, ok, it’s worth it. But to do a ladder, or just load up 50 rounds of 6.5 something with 4350 when your setup is dialed in for 6br with varget, it’s a pain in the ass. No comparison to the ease of Autotrickler and IP. But on the flip side, TO ME if I’m loading a few hundred rounds on the Dillon 550 I’d rather use the Prometheus because of workflow issues. It loads faster for me then the alternative of dumping powder in cases in a loading block then loading separately. But here again, if I’m loading (a) something I don’t have the 550 set up for, or (b) a couple hundred rounds or less with a different powder charge, it’s almost a no brained to use the ip setup. It just works well. It’s like flying commercial somewhere you can drive to in 4 hours. You’ll get there at the same time, but once the airplane is in the air time sure seems to go faster.
Also, I might as well get it out in the open, Autotrickler v4 was the biggest piece of shit I’ve ever bought. Even v3 now kind of sucks because I firmly believe Adam deliberately modified the app to make the trickler turn sloooooowwwwwlllllyyyyyyy thereby diminishing performance of the IP setup using v3 stepper motors.
I have no doubts that Paul will have the product right before he sends one out the door. I will probably beg him to let me buy and try one before you guys <— not sure it’ll work though.
While I have no idea if this is true or not... I have noticed that the trickler seems faster than mine in Paul's videos and I swear mine was faster before I updated the AT App...
I went back and watched his most recent video (switching powders), and yup, his is turning faster (he even speeds it up even more at one point by changing a setting on his keypad).
While my setup isn't slow by any means, in the words of Yngwie J. Malmsteen: "more is more". Does anyone know if there's a way to get the IP trickler up to its full potential using the AT App and V3 electronics..? Or is it just a question of playing with the position of the slider a little longer..?
Or, @Ingenuity1 , any chance you might be able to cook up an App that lets us IP trickler owners using it with AT V3s (or in my case, throwing the bulk charge manually, just using the V3 electronics) utilize the trickler at full speed without a "governer " on it (or is it just a slider thing)?
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Learn something new every day. How does it know to throw vs trickle, and how do you set this?
What I do is set a bulk weight by pouring powder or by spinning the IP super faster then trickle to my desired weight. Then, follow these directions...
But the code that may have been changed the behavior would surely have to reside on the small controller that is installed in the scale. I don't know how Adam's updates work, but I imagine this is going to depend on if new code was pushed to the control board or not?
The scale and the app are both just control devices for the AT controller board. I don't see how using one vs the other would change its behavior unless Adam forked the code in to two different paths. That would probably cause other issues like not being able to go back and forth between scale and app control in the same loading session, etc.
Now, if you never updated the control board via the app then you would still be on the older version and still at full speed....unless the app forces you to update the board.
I doubt anything is pushed to the control board at all. I have 2 ATV3+IP setups and they both run equally fast, one of them never connects to the app.
Sent Paul a message about using pistol powder. He replied the bulk unit would work fine. The trickler would have issues with flake powder, he mentioned H110 usually has issues. Has anyone used it with Bullseye?
I asked about the cup weeks ago, and he said he had “something” in the works.
My only concern is that on the calibration step it appears like the weight can get up there pretty fast, so the cup needs to hold 400gr or so. Most of the existing ones wont hold that.
Just actuate the dropper by hand until you get it where you want it, then activate the trickler and system.
Send me a pm. I know how to make that run itself and you won't have to hit single cycle every time.
Oh boy, now you are really going to get it..... I'm definitely going to hit you up on this topic later.
Never, comes with both. Run it as you wish. They both can do same thing but the app does give you multi touch capability, like naming a saved load vs assigning it a number
Paul,
Couple of questions from earlier in the thread:
1. Will the thrower/trickler be affected by temps (hot or cold). Users have seen issues with other designs locking up or changing performance in temp extremes.
2. Do the electronics have the ability to upgrade code in the future if you make some tweaks, upgrades, etc?
3. Do you have the cup design finished yet (we all like cool shiny new toys)
4. Pricing for the breeze shield available yet?
Thanks!
Couple of questions from earlier in the thread:
1. Will the thrower/trickler be affected by temps (hot or cold). Users have seen issues with other designs locking up or changing performance in temp extremes.
2. Do the electronics have the ability to upgrade code in the future if you make some tweaks, upgrades, etc?
3. Do you have the cup design finished yet (we all like cool shiny new toys)
4. Pricing for the breeze shield available yet?
Thanks!
The thrower and trickler are not affected by temps to date, but I’ll make sure to put one in the freezer and one in the dehumidifier to make sure as I’m sure somebody will try it. Lol
If gravity changes we all have bigger problems.
Electronics are fully upgradable by firmware
Cup is ever going designing and testing, but don’t laugh if you get a Dixie cup with a plastic handle on it. That stupid thing is better than any cup tested or that I have ever had in my life. I challenge anyone to design a cup that works better. It’s light weight and powder absolutely does not even bounce when it hits the bottom allowing the scale to settle faster. I’m all for a nice cup but at the end of the day it just works and never any powder spills out, ever! If someone can I will sing their praises. Lol
Still waiting on prices for the draft shield as design has had to change to try to keep costs down. I don’t want it to cost a lot
I bet its the slightly flexible suspended bottom! Maybe I need to go to the store and get a sleeve to create a 3d printed handle for them. Wonder if the handle would weigh too much and pull it over? Guess you could always counter-balance the handle.
What size cup is it? 3oz or 5oz?
Think it’s probably 5oz. You are correct, it has everything to do with the softness of the bottom. It absorbs all the energy of the kernels. To get the fastest speed from a system you need to let it just drop in the cup unbaffled and it not bounce.
I have to supply a cup with the system because as others have pointed out it needs to hold a good bit for the calibrations and not let it bounce out because it’s not baffled. I’m really trying to design one that can be nicely printed or molded but when working with hard materials it is more difficult than one would ever imagine and I would love for it to be manufacturable so I could sell it by itself because there is not one on the market that works.
I reload in my garage so temps could be 25 in winter and 105 in summer so if it’s not going to work in those ambients, I’d like to know in advance.
Not being a douche, just seriously want to know if it will require me to move my operation indoors in summer and winter. Cuz….that’s what AT and ST required me to do and why I sold them
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Paul's system won't compensate for you using the balance outside AnD's tested and approved environmental conditions...
That being said, I agree I'd like to see him test the system at low and high temps to make sure the dropper responds properly, etc.
@Ingenuity1
Design the cup to have a slight cone facing upwards (tip at the top), it seems to help kernel bouncing issues since the initial powder drop forces the powder into the bottom/corner of the cup. Might be an idea. I had a 3D printed cup somewhere like it....
Design the cup to have a slight cone facing upwards (tip at the top), it seems to help kernel bouncing issues since the initial powder drop forces the powder into the bottom/corner of the cup. Might be an idea. I had a 3D printed cup somewhere like it....
I believe you are referring to this design?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4675233
I printed one and used it for a bit. It was ok, but i bet the manufacturing of it would be difficult or very expensive if made from aluminum or steel?
I am sure the cheapest way to skin this cat is to come up with a pre-existing item and re-purpose it. Shot glass, condiment cup, etc. A nice metal handle would be nice if the paper cups are determined to be the way to go, but I don't know if any cup is included in the system price right now?
The tall stainless tumblers/shot glasses I've been using for about 7 years with my homebrew automated Harrell's bulk drop have still been the best as far as containing and preventing any powder bounce out / splash out of every kind of cup I've tried, but the kernels do bounce in the cup a bit during the initial drop because the stainless has no give, and that little bit of powder bouncing around makes the scale "settle time" longer.
That bit of powder bounce isn't a big deal with my system as I use a servo controlled volumetric measure that drops nearly the same volume/weight of powder for every full cycle of the measure, but I can see that extended bounce/settle time causing Paul some tuning and calibration issues and delays with his gravity and time based dropper compared to a volumetric dropper.
Any time delay you can minimize or eliminate from the cycle will only shorten the total cycle time, and deadening the kernel bounce will only help with that regardless of the bulk drop method.
The paper dixie cup having a bit of give to the raised bottom makes perfect sense to absorb some of the energy of the dropping powder and minimize powder bouncing. A silicone cup with a raised bottom, if one was available in the the necessary size, might work well too... but dixie cups are cheap and widely available and Paul says they work really well, so sometimes it makes sense to just use the easiest solution to the problem at hand even if it isn't cool looking.
Besides, I'm sure soon after release of the new system Area 419 will drop a billet aluminum dixie cup upgrade.
(I tried both the Area 419 and PVA fancy machined aluminum cups on my setup, and both of them constantly made messes with kernel bounce out. Switched back to the trusty and cheap tall stainless tumblers from Amazon and no more powder messes.)
That bit of powder bounce isn't a big deal with my system as I use a servo controlled volumetric measure that drops nearly the same volume/weight of powder for every full cycle of the measure, but I can see that extended bounce/settle time causing Paul some tuning and calibration issues and delays with his gravity and time based dropper compared to a volumetric dropper.
Any time delay you can minimize or eliminate from the cycle will only shorten the total cycle time, and deadening the kernel bounce will only help with that regardless of the bulk drop method.
The paper dixie cup having a bit of give to the raised bottom makes perfect sense to absorb some of the energy of the dropping powder and minimize powder bouncing. A silicone cup with a raised bottom, if one was available in the the necessary size, might work well too... but dixie cups are cheap and widely available and Paul says they work really well, so sometimes it makes sense to just use the easiest solution to the problem at hand even if it isn't cool looking.
Besides, I'm sure soon after release of the new system Area 419 will drop a billet aluminum dixie cup upgrade.
(I tried both the Area 419 and PVA fancy machined aluminum cups on my setup, and both of them constantly made messes with kernel bounce out. Switched back to the trusty and cheap tall stainless tumblers from Amazon and no more powder messes.)
One solution would be to take any cup, and figure out how to install some thing in the bottom of it that mitigate the energy transfer and bounce
Maybe as somebody noted above, spraying some automotive undercoating or some thing inside of them
Line-X anyone?
Maybe as somebody noted above, spraying some automotive undercoating or some thing inside of them
Line-X anyone?
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