Range Report Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

#1,101
Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eaglet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HellsCanyonArmory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean,

Sent you a PM but I'll ask here as well.

I recently had to get a new phone (same as my old phone) and when I sign into my Google Play store it's not showing me as having bought the Shooter app... I sure don't want to pay another $10 for the app. Any help here? Thank you.

Mike </div></div>

Mike you need to log in with the same log in u used when u bought the application.

Once you're at Goolge Play screen, click on menu, click on Accounts, a list of accounts appear; choose the right one.

20a9dvk.jpg
</div></div>

Thanks for the help it's not showing up still. I think I may of had a different Gmail account on my old phone and I may of started a new one at some point on my desktop (which I currently have logged in on my phone)... Haven't a clue what the old account ID would be lol Oh well, I've spent $9.99 on worse things!
smile.gif


Mike
 
#1,103
Technicality, or rather a question for previous experience - how does Shooter fare once the bullet passes into transonic/subsonic flight? I´m using G7 with the bullet in question.

I know I´ll see once I shoot the load at the given distance, but need to prepare the theory. For example if there are only limited sighting shots at distance where the bullet is already subsonic and I true the load in Shooter to POA/POI observation accordingly, I´m afraid of introducing error unintentionally and missing small targets at shorter distances. Opinions?
 
#1,105
Anyone have any luck contacting Sean Kennedy? My tablet locked up on me the other day and I had to reset factory settings. I was hoping there would be a record of my purchase so I could re-download it without being out another $10. I tried contacting him via email and pm here with no luck.

ETA Apparently if you've paid for it you can just download it again without paying again.
 
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#1,106
Love this app. Took a 475 yard shot a across a canyon at a mountain goat using a friends rifle. After inputting all variables, I hit it square. Given altitude of about 4500 ft, I would have missed if I had relied on his preprinted range card.

--Rootshot
 
#1,107
Practical question: When defining a round, I can input "ZERO OFFSET". I understand this that I can input like 5" high and 1" left at 100y, allowing me to not re-adjust the scope between differend loads and instead adjusting by software computation for a single referencing POA, correct? I would then dial in exactly what the program calculates, and shall hit spot on (provided all other input is accurate, indeed). Am I right on that?
 
#1,108
Playing around with "zero offset" - it appears the input treats right as - and left as + values (seems to be counterintuitive to me).

Practical example - I made a 2nd load hitting 1cm high and 3cm right from the POI. I input zero height as 1 and zero offset as 3 (up and right, both positive values). I then dial a no wind scenario at 100m, where the table tells me -0.1mil correction for elevation (correct) but +0.3mil correction for windage - which would actually make me hit 6cm right.

Is that a software quirk, or my lack of understanding of the concept? I think this feature´s great otherwise.
 
#1,109
In "Preferences" it shows you can choose + for up and right; - for down and left.
I just chose that preference in mine and when entering a wind from 9 o'clock it gives me a - adjustment to adjust left for the wind.
 
#1,110
Which is alright, that´s what it does. However with that zero offset dialed in, it should correctly show a - value, but instead shows a + value moving the POI further away.

To realy precise - the hit in target is 1cm high and 3 cm right. That´s both + values, and I enter them into the Shooter as "zero height = +0.1" and "zero offset = +0.3". Proper solution for 100m should then read -0.1 for elevation and -0.3 for windage. The software shows +0.3 windage, though.
 
#1,111
Question may have already been posted but will Shooter be incorporating reticle support? I used Strelok over the weekend and the only feature I liked on it was the ability to show you the rounds impact in the reticle. It also had a database of pretty much every reticle in existence to use for the display. I am still using Shooter though cause Strelok doesnt pull atmospherics as well as Shooter or use the G7 form factor plus a couple other things I like about Shooter.
 
#1,113
Got into another interesting que:

Comparing combined G1 coefficient with G7. The bullet is .30 Nosler Custom Competition 155grs, which is exact copy of Sierra´s original #2155 Palma bullet. It´s loaded to Mv of 2850fps.

We can get three different G1 coefficients for dropping speed from here: http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/BallisticCoefficient-rifle.pdf

.450 @ 2600 fps and above
.443 between 1800 and 2600 fps
.417 @ 1800 fps and below

We can use .213 G7 reported by Bryan: http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/S155grPALMAbullet.pdf

Now I´ve created 2 ammo profiles in my app, only difference being the ballistic coefficients used for calculation.

I´ve input some average atmospheric conditions and these are the results:

G1: needs 11.2Mils for 1000m shot and reports transonic at 1025m.
G7: needs 11.8Mils for 1000m shot and reports transonic 925m already.

The difference is not through the roof, but one would be a miss on steel. I´ll report after Saturday´s match - real atm. conditions, corrected actual Mv for the day, observed necessary correction from 600 - 1000m and how close both calculations were.
 
#1,114
I have used this app on 3-4 different phones with great results. Now my brand new HTC One won't give me correct readings even though all my input data is correct. Anyone running into this? See my thread about it here: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...3-htc-one-shooter-ballistic-app-problems.html

Considering swapping to the Samsun Galaxy S4, but curious if it would have the same issue? Is there a potential update to fix this or what?
 
#1,115
verdugo60 said:
I have used this app on 3-4 different phones with great results. Now my brand new HTC One won't give me correct readings even though all my input data is correct. Anyone running into this? See my thread about it here: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...3-htc-one-shooter-ballistic-app-problems.html

Considering swapping to the Samsun Galaxy S4, but curious if it would have the same issue? Is there a potential update to fix this or what?
Click to expand...

I'm having the same problem with my S4, and I know there's at least one other person on the Hide with the same problem using AB (essentially the same app). Corrections are consistently less than needed, first value is greater than subsequent entries despite same input. They need to fig out what the OS difference is and release and update, which could reasonably take some time.
 
#1,116
Lukas Koukal said:
Got into another interesting que:

Comparing combined G1 coefficient with G7. The bullet is .30 Nosler Custom Competition 155grs, which is exact copy of Sierra´s original #2155 Palma bullet. It´s loaded to Mv of 2850fps.

We can get three different G1 coefficients for dropping speed from here: http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/BallisticCoefficient-rifle.pdf

.450 @ 2600 fps and above
.443 between 1800 and 2600 fps
.417 @ 1800 fps and below

We can use .213 G7 reported by Bryan: http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/S155grPALMAbullet.pdf

Now I´ve created 2 ammo profiles in my app, only difference being the ballistic coefficients used for calculation.

I´ve input some average atmospheric conditions and these are the results:

G1: needs 11.2Mils for 1000m shot and reports transonic at 1025m.
G7: needs 11.8Mils for 1000m shot and reports transonic 925m already.

The difference is not through the roof, but one would be a miss on steel. I´ll report after Saturday´s match - real atm. conditions, corrected actual Mv for the day, observed necessary correction from 600 - 1000m and how close both calculations were.
Click to expand...

Results to the experiment:

Both calculations were within .4mils at 960m sight-in (1050yards). We had a realy hot day, over 30°C in the open (+-80-90F); I had to adjust the MV using the Shooters´ muzzle velocity tool -> came out at 898m/s for the G1 and 900m/s for the G7 (2946fps and 2952fps respectively).

After truing the MV according to the observed hits (and having had confirmed 100m zero first), BOTH G1 and G7 calculations gave spot on elevation dope as verified across the course from 1000m down to 600m (1093yds to 656yds).

Personal observation - garbage in, garbage out. As long as I avoid that and pay attention to details, both systems work to equal precision. The preference to one may best be because of availability of input information, thus giving more options to the shooter... and that´s it.
 
#1,118
I also have the Samsung Galaxy S4 phone. I actually went to a "smart phone" so that I could run "Shooter." It absolutely gives me bogus data, and the come-ups are MUCH less than actually required. I fiddled with all the settings to no avail. At a match last weekend, I found someone else running Shooter and had them look it over. All looked correct, EXCEPT for the output. I used the data taped to my stock for the match. Any fixes for this? Thanks.

bob
 
#1,120
Im not forsure I like the updated version.Its different but I probally will adjust quickly.Change is not my strong suit.The solution button is in a different place and the yardages at the bottom are in 1 yard increments.I haven't found how to change it yet.Its easy to tap and change the wind direction angle.
 
#1,121
Sean, you still have a bug with the "range increment" in the HUD. If I select a range increment of 25 in the settings, once I get to the HUD, the range is not in 25 increments but in single units. Any chance we can get this fixed quickly? As is, it is hell to use the HUD going from 200yd to 1000yd.
 
#1,124
I agree. I emailed Sean about the removal of the "range increment" feature and think that is a big mistake. I wish I could go back to the previous version. When you're on range and engaging multiple targets are different distances, scrolling in single unit increments is a serious non-starter. Hitting the back button to select the range and then input it into the keyboard to then proceed to the HUD again is a serious time waster. Yes, you could use the range card but what happens when you need to adjust wind values during engagement time.

I would really like to see the range increment in settings feature come back.
 
#1,127
Sean has always replied very promptly to all emails that I've sent him, most recently about two weeks ago. If he's not responding I would imagine he is predisposed at the time. I have been very impressed with his great customer service. (This is not a paid advertisement, just my experience fwiw)
NT
 
#1,133
I'm missing two features in this otherwise nearly-perfect program.

1. Ability to put on the graph and compare (drop and energy, or velocity and energy) different loads for different rifles/calipers. The current version only allows comparing different loads for the same caliber/rifle.

2. Ability to display the maximum ordinate of the trajectory to the given distance.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free
 
#1,134
Ok, I'm just going to come out and say that I hate the "upgrade". The scrolling feature may be better if we could adjust the increments of our choosing in a preference setting, but as it is now it takes forever and a day to get data quickly for match stages. The old way was much, much faster. Plus with the graph on the next tab over I find I rarely even use the calculate feature. I just calculate to the farthest distance then use the graph for dope.

Why the heck would you get rid of the MV tool when it worked fine? In fact the MV tool was a pretty darn cool little gizmo for getting known dope to match up with program perfectly.

I want my old shooter program back!
 
#1,135
Big Dog Steel said:
Ok, I'm just going to come out and say that I hate the "upgrade". The scrolling feature may be better if we could adjust the increments of our choosing in a preference setting, but as it is now it takes forever and a day to get data quickly for match stages. The old way was much, much faster. Plus with the graph on the next tab over I find I rarely even use the calculate feature. I just calculate to the farthest distance then use the graph for dope.

Why the heck would you get rid of the MV tool when it worked fine? In fact the MV tool was a pretty darn cool little gizmo for getting known dope to match up with program perfectly.

I want my old shooter program back!
Click to expand...


MV tool is still there, it got moved..
u can also click on the scroll wheel and enter direct distances...



 
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#1,137
Hi guys,

First, let me say that I have spent several hours looking for this information online and using the search in this thread ...

This is the closest thing to a "Shooter" forum I have been able to find. So, I'll ask some questions here, but if there is a better place to look for my answers just point me to it. I've sent email to Sean a few days ago, and no reply. It is a little worrisome to see that he posted in this thread quite a bit early on but none in many, many months.

I have Shooter, a Kestrel 4500 and an Android phone. My questions are all about the settings in Shooter and the Kestrel.

Short version: what are the settings to use in Shooter with Kestrel and bluetooth communication?

Long version:
Is the altitude shown by GPS more accurate than the altitude derived from pressure? If it is, then what settings allow Shooter to use the phone's GPS altitude and apply atmospheric data imported from the Kestrel without using the Density Altitude from the Kestrel? I mean you have to input either the pressure or the altitude in the Kestrel to get Density Altitude out of it in the first place.

Or am I all confused?

Thanks,

rg
 
#1,138
I don't have the bluetooth so I cannot answer there but I can help you with altitude accuracy. Pressure altitude can be very accurate BUT you have to have a setting point for it to be. If the weather changes it will look like a change in altitude because weather is related to air pressure. If you go that route just make sure you enter a know altitude every time you reach one, then you're good. GPS altitude is much better than it once was. Your altitude will be triangulated from many satellites and gives a pretty accurate reading no matter the weather as long as you have a clear view of the sky. You will need an app to get altitude from your phone though but they can be found for free in the Play store. If you want to not worry about batteries a good old fashioned pressure altimeter can run without but again you have to enter known elevations when you reach them to keep it accurate. I don't know about any way to auto-populate that information into Shooter though. I think you will have to manually enter it though I could be wrong.
 
#1,139
Rafael said:
seankndy, a member here, has written a ballistics package for the Android platform.

Edited to add link to Sean's webpage with a full description:
Shooter - Ballistics Calculator for iOS and Android
Scroll down to the bottom for the FAQ section.

The app can be found in the Android Market on your device under the name "Shooter".

Or, if you have a barcode scanner, just open this link and scan it:
http://sean.kndy.net/shooter/qrcode.png


Edited to add:
This program has evolved a great deal.

Three features really stand out for me:
1-This program lets you set up different load profiles that include preference for elevation and windage adjustment values, your choice of IPHY, MOA, or Mil's for each of them.
2-The solution: adjustment values for elevation and windage show up as the angular system you chose in the profile.....IPHY, MOA, or Mil in a large font, but the other two you didn't choose show up too, just in a smaller font. Makes communication with others using different angular systems easy.
3-He built-in a ranging tool that defaults to your elevation choice in the profile, but can switch to the other units IPHY, MOA, or Mil whenever you like. Enter target size and reticle reading and it computes the value.


Of course, it can also read angle data by holding the phone on the plane of the shot direction.

Thank you, Sean!
Click to expand...

Two things I'd like to see you update. First is change the software where user is able to edit muzzle velocity per given temperature. Right now program is automatically calculating velocity based on the ambient temperature and I dont like it because it's off from my own verified data. Other vise I have to plug in velocity number in the load library every time conditions change and ammo temp changed.
Second thing on a trajectory table please freez first row so that it IDs what the heck I'm looking at after scrolling half way down the page.
Thanks
 
#1,140
Jmartin2076 said:
I don't have the bluetooth so I cannot answer there but I can help you with altitude accuracy. Pressure altitude can be very accurate BUT you have to have a setting point for it to be. If the weather changes it will look like a change in altitude because weather is related to air pressure. If you go that route just make sure you enter a know altitude every time you reach one, then you're good. GPS altitude is much better than it once was. Your altitude will be triangulated from many satellites and gives a pretty accurate reading no matter the weather as long as you have a clear view of the sky. You will need an app to get altitude from your phone though but they can be found for free in the Play store. If you want to not worry about batteries a good old fashioned pressure altimeter can run without but again you have to enter known elevations when you reach them to keep it accurate. I don't know about any way to auto-populate that information into Shooter though. I think you will have to manually enter it though I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is the correct settings to use that I am searching for. I am not sure if Shooter integrates the altitude available in the phone's GPS with the atmospheric parameters from the Kestrel to come up with the shooting solution

OR

Maybe I have to take the GPS based altitude in the phone and input it into the Kestrel, which then comes up with Density Altitude which gets imported into Shooter from the Kestrel.
 
#1,141
Cossack said:
Two things I'd like to see you update. First is change the software where user is able to edit muzzle velocity per given temperature. Right now program is automatically calculating velocity based on the ambient temperature and I dont like it because it's off from my own verified data. Other vise I have to plug in velocity number in the load library every time conditions change and ammo temp changed.
Second thing on a trajectory table please freez first row so that it IDs what the heck I'm looking at after scrolling half way down the page.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Since different powders have different temperature sensitivities, it seems to me that a formula could be developed such that a (call it) Temperature Sensitivity Index (TSI) could be derived simply by measuring MV at different temperatures. This in turn would be simple to add to Shooter, making it even more elegant than it already is.

[EDIT]: I don't think I explained my idea very well. Shooter ALREADY has a formula in the software to calculate velocity as a function of powder temperature. For my load Shooter uses a linear equation with a slope of 20. I assume that's the same for all loads. The MV increased or decreases by 20fps for every 1 degree F. Even a 10 degree difference between the temp when zeroing was done and the temp at the time of subsequent actual shooting would be a 200fps difference in MV. This would end up with a 7.4 MOA difference at 1000yds (~61") for my gun/bullet.

Would it not would be possible, using the same load, to measure MV at say, 20 degrees F and at 70 degrees F? This would result in a predicted range of MV of 20*50=1000fps. So the *TSI* assumption in Shooter is fixed at 20. But by actually measuring MV at different temps, the actual TSI could be entered in a setting. (MV70 - MV20)/50 If the powder was one that is more resistant to temp variation, maybe the TSI would be much lower.

[EDIT #2] OK, anybody have some bacon to go with the egg all over my face? This is to share my current understanding and hopefully prevent the above from confusing any others new to Shooter. This could be called RTFM as well. I apologize for any confusion.

In the Ammunition Data setup screen there is an entry called MV Variation. The label shows fps per degree. This is exactly what I was hoping for in my above post. This is a "powder" characteristic.

After going over the manual again, I realized that I missed this. So, you would either use published data about a particular powders MV variation at different temps to calculate the MV variation per degree, OR better yet, actually measure the MV variation at different temps and calculate the MV variation for your particular powder, bullet, primer, neck tension, seating depth, etc, etc.

With regard to powders, here is a link with at least some idea of the variation of different powders.
http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page2.php#top
 
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#1,142
truing everything in the app was pretty much mandatory for me. My rounds were chronographed and it was about .2-.4 mills off all the way down my dope table increasing as it went of course, the adjusted fps value was a good bit higher from the actual average value or even the high measurement. After messing with it and truing it when I got home from my true verified dopes it seems to be correct at least out to 720 which is as far as I can stretch it out here locally. I have not checked the wind values yet but those look to be pretty close from the formulas I use which just take a little more time for me compared to looking down at a phone or dope card.
 
#1,143
Irokcrawl said:
truing everything in the app was pretty much mandatory for me. My rounds were chronographed and it was about .2-.4 mills off all the way down my dope table increasing as it went of course, the adjusted fps value was a good bit higher from the actual average value or even the high measurement. After messing with it and truing it when I got home from my true verified dopes it seems to be correct at least out to 720 which is as far as I can stretch it out here locally. I have not checked the wind values yet but those look to be pretty close from the formulas I use which just take a little more time for me compared to looking down at a phone or dope card.
Click to expand...

When you trued the MV where did you change it at?
 
#1,144
Cossack said:
When you trued the MV where did you change it at?
Click to expand...

Go to this post (a few up) http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...hooter-ballistics-android-23.html#post2631469

It shows what the screen looks like. Basically in the upper right corner of the screen depending on what screen your on you will have different options. On one of them (you may have to go to "edit" the gun or round) you should see calibrate MV or something of that nature. Put in your ranges and your actual dope that makes that hit dead center and it will adjust the fps (even though this is different than yours may actually be it needs to stay that way to be correct in the app) to reflect that, then the rest of your values should match and be correct.
 
#1,145
Its also what you truly dialed, not the difference between what the app is saying and what your dialed, example if you actually dialed 3.2mils and the app was telling you to dial 2.9mils you would enter 3.2mils at whatever range you dialed that for, not .3 mils. At least that how I did it and it was dead on for all of my verified dopes.
 
#1,146
I have an HTC evo android and I can't get that MV truing menu. Non of the screens have an option/toolbar on top. Any ideas? Only MV tool I can find is when I open table/graph and hit the "menu" button, option for "muzzle velocity tool" comes up, but thats just to change the value.
 
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#1,147
Cossack said:
I have an HTC evo android and I can't get that MV truing menu. Non of the screens have an option/toolbar on top. Any ideas? Only MV tool I can find is when I open table/graph and hit the "menu" button, option for "muzzle velocity tool" comes up, but thats just to change the value.
Click to expand...


make sure your version is up to date, it should look just like the pic above....
 
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