Range Report Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

[TalkingBush]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Download an app called Barcode Scanner (free) and hold it up to your monitor over this image and it should pop up. I verified, it does work prior to this post. Rafael, you may want to include this in the first post of the topic, if you'd like.

v1.3.1
- Fixed another spin-drift calculation issue (bug introduced w/ density altitude input)

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

field,

Is your HUD working properly in version 1.3.0?

EDIT: I see the issue you're running into -- updated another fix (this DA input feature introduced a few problem ;p)

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Done!

 

[Field]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

fixed thanks

 

[zenbiker]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

OK, fun with the FNG is over.

I scanned the barcode, and I get a message 'no matches in Android Market for the search: pname:net.kndy.shooterfull. When I do a search for "Shooter" all I get is the Lite version. WTF am I doing wrong?

 

[TalkingBush]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1ZNUF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, fun with the FNG is over.

I scanned the barcode, and I get a message 'no matches in Android Market for the search: pname:net.kndy.shooterfull. When I do a search for "Shooter" all I get is the Lite version. WTF am I doing wrong?
</div></div>
Not messing around with you, in case you thought I was. It seems you have either an out of date, or a rom that Google does not want on their market. Go into your System info and tell me what Build Number is listed. When you have a build that has been leaked, or is based off of Google's lastest AOSP build, it isn't allowed on the market. That's the exact issue when I was running the EPE54B build prior to it's time. <span style="text-decoration: line-through">I believe it was you that said they were using a leaked 2.1.</span> It was field. That would be the cause right there. You need to be on either a stock image, or at least one that has official support. They do it to prevent piracy of the paid apps.

Try searching for another paid app, let's say, "Twidroid Pro" I'm pretty sure it won't show up either.

 

[dzlfarmboy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Just got my new Droid today, after I figure out how to use it I need to download me some Shooter APP

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1ZNUF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, fun with the FNG is over.

I scanned the barcode, and I get a message 'no matches in Android Market for the search: pname:net.kndy.shooterfull. When I do a search for "Shooter" all I get is the Lite version. WTF am I doing wrong?
</div></div>

What version of Android are you running? At least version 1.6 is required.

 

[Advokaten]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Could one upgrade the android version in a phone?

I have a HTC Hero, it states "program version 1,5"

silly question perhaps but worth asking here.

Best regards Chris

 

[TalkingBush]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swedish guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could one upgrade the android version in a phone?

I have a HTC Hero, it states "program version 1,5"

silly question perhaps but worth asking here.

Best regards Chris </div></div>

Most definitely, the Hero is actually one of the more favored models of the Android community. They have working 2.1 images available now. Check out XDA for some good info. They have many tutorials/guides on how to upgrade. If you need some help, PM me, as I don't want this thread to be hijacked.

 

[WolfK33]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Hi all,

I found this forum after downloading the free version (2.7.5) of this great app (thank you !)to test it and looking for a solution for my problem.

The problem is that in the trajectory table the velocity and energy are <span style="font-weight: bold">increasing</span>with range, so of course the computed solution is way off.

According to the trajectory table my .308 170grs bullet with a muzzle velocity of 790 mps and muzzle energy of 3437.95 joules has a velocity of 791.96 mps and energy of 3455.17 joules at 200m.

As I´m a beginner I have no idea if (and if yes, what...) I´m doing wrong or if it´s a glitch with the app.

Here´s the data I entered:
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Firearm:</span>
Sight Height: 5cm
Zero Range: 100m
Correction Factor: 1.0

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Ammunition:</span>
Bullet Diameter (in): 0.308
Bullet Weight: 170
Muzzle Velocity (mps): 790
Drag Model: G1
Coef.: 0.305
Min. Velocity (mps): 0

-----

Distance(m): 200
Angle: 0
Pressure Input Type: By altitude
Altitude(m): 12
Temperature(C): 15
Rel. Humidity: 26%
Wind Speed(m/s): 0
Wind Angle(clock):12


Should be nothing wrong there...

Or am I just being extremely dumb right now (right out of the night shift...) and missing the obvious ??

I hope anybody can help,

Best Greetings,

Wolf

edit: Using Android 1.6 on HTC Magic

 

[zenbiker]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1ZNUF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, fun with the FNG is over.

I scanned the barcode, and I get a message 'no matches in Android Market for the search: pname:net.kndy.shooterfull. When I do a search for "Shooter" all I get is the Lite version. WTF am I doing wrong?
</div></div>

What version of Android are you running? At least version 1.6 is required. </div></div>

There you go. I have an HTC Hero running v 1.5 firmware.

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WolfK33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi all,

I found this forum after downloading the free version (2.7.5) of this great app (thank you !)to test it and looking for a solution for my problem.

The problem is that in the trajectory table the velocity and energy are <span style="font-weight: bold">increasing</span>with range, so of course the computed solution is way off.

According to the trajectory table my .308 170grs bullet with a muzzle velocity of 790 mps and muzzle energy of 3437.95 joules has a velocity of 791.96 mps and energy of 3455.17 joules at 200m.

As I´m a beginner I have no idea if (and if yes, what...) I´m doing wrong or if it´s a glitch with the app.

Here´s the data I entered:
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Firearm:</span>
Sight Height: 5cm
Zero Range: 100m
Correction Factor: 1.0

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Ammunition:</span>
Bullet Diameter (in): 0.308
Bullet Weight: 170
Muzzle Velocity (mps): 790
Drag Model: G1
Coef.: 0.305
Min. Velocity (mps): 0

-----

Distance(m): 200
Angle: 0
Pressure Input Type: By altitude
Altitude(m): 12
Temperature(C): 15
Rel. Humidity: 26%
Wind Speed(m/s): 0
Wind Angle(clock):12


Should be nothing wrong there...

Or am I just being extremely dumb right now (right out of the night shift...) and missing the obvious ??

I hope anybody can help,

Best Greetings,

Wolf

edit: Using Android 1.6 on HTC Magic </div></div>

This is a problem when using 'by altitude' and metric input. Choose a different pressure input type and it should work. I just noticed this bug with the full version not long ago and fixed it, I will upload a fix later today for the free version.

 

[WolfK33]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is a problem when using 'by altitude' and metric input. Choose a different pressure input type and it should work. I just noticed this bug with the full version not long ago and fixed it, I will upload a fix later today for the free version.</div></div>

Ah, ok, I tried it and indeed it works with different input type!

Great!

Thanks for the quick reply and for providing this great app !

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WolfK33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah, ok, I tried it and indeed it works with different input type!

Great!

Thanks for the quick reply and for providing this great app ! </div></div>
Uploaded the fix. Go to market->menu button->downloads. It may take just a bit for it to show up (or you can clear the cache for the Market app).

 

[WolfK33]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Wow, that was fast !

Updated to 2.7.6, works as desired !

Thanks a lot!

 

[TalkingBush]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WolfK33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, that was fast !

Updated to 2.7.6, works as desired !

Thanks a lot!
</div></div>Good to hear, great work seankndy. That's a good dev.

 

[TalkingBush]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I know most of you aren't really big nerds and care about the underlying OS, but I am going to post this anyhow since it does involve Android and the future of Shooter. If you don't want me cluttering up the thread, just let me know.

Android 2.2 Flash Support

Older Phones May Become Obsolete

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

If you have the full version and want to get a good guess on velocity variation per degree of temp change, Quickload makes this easy.

Quickload allows you to enter temperatures and immediately see predicted velocity variations. I was surprised to see a fairly steady 1.1 fps of variation per degree of change with my regular .308 Varget load with the 175SMK.

Of course each load will be different..... based on case capacity, powder type, load pressures, etc.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I wonder what Quickload bases that calculation on. My .308 Varget load runs around 0.6 fps per degree F between 30 and 90 degrees, measured by a good chronograph.

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Some German guy named Helmut who works up all of his powder data in a cell. He literally touches off charges and measures variables. I had a short e-mail discussion with him a while back.

Of course this is just a guess. Each variable can alter the result and there are a ton of variables to be addressed with Quickload.

I am working with 44.5 grains of Varget and 175MK seated to about 2.93" OAL with Lapua brass. What is your load?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Mine is 44.6 grains in a Lapua case, Federal 210M primer, 175 SMK, COAL 2.810.

The difference between 0.6 and 1 isn't of much practical effect. As an engineer and finikin, I just wonder about test methodology.

Black Hills 175 in my rifle runs about 1 fps/degree F.

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Glad you spoke up, Lindy.
To be honest, I never played with the temp feature in QL until Sean brought out the update with temp variation.......somewhat inspired by your posts in this thread.

I take it you have not used QL?
I don't make use of all of the features like you might.

Still......6 to 1.1 is a fair difference.
I will change my seating depth and other variables and see if I can approach your figure.

Was your test done on the same day with varying powder temps or was it spanning different days/lighting conditions?

I am not very trusting of Chrono's, based on my experience with them. This is partly why I asked Sean for the Velocity Tool in the HUD screen of his program......to help nail down velocity figures.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I have not used Quickload.

I have an Oehler 35 which I've found reliable. I did those temperature tests under a covered shooting position, so lighting conditions were not of much importance.

I don't worry about the accuracy of chronograph figures, as I validate them by shooting long distances. I use the chrony primarily for temperature testing, and for those, since you're looking for a change between two temperatures, the absolute accuracy of the chronograph is a minor factor.

 

[ubet]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Just downloaded shooter looks awesome think!

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Try the full version.
I has a ton of features and extra little gadgets that make it worth much more than the cost.

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Lindy;
I ran numbers for your load at 44.6 grains and 2.810" OAL and I get a 1.066 fps/degree variation.
Double checked mine with 44.5 grains and 2.935" OAL and I get 1.1 fps/degree variation.

Not much difference at all.

You have me wondering why you are trusting your chrono for better resulution than I have seen any manufacturer claim; and in varying condidtions at that. Can you explain your reasoning?
Sure, the exact speed does not matter, but with the poor accuracy they deliver....why trust that it is giving results repeatable to .6 fps or better? Temperature variation in the chrono itself may be contributing to some of the variation in readings.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Why would you believe the calculation of a computer program, rather than a chronograph which measures velocity?

Why should I believe the computer program which you used, rather than the field shooting data I have, which is consistent with the change of MV with temperature which my chronograph measured?

The purpose of a computer model is to make accurate predictions. My ballistic program(s), with the inputs from the data I have, does that.

Your program output does not match my shooting data.

I believe the bullet.

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

I don't trust the program data....not without verification. Never said it was trustworthy. I would always discount it in the presence of real world data.

Also, I have no doubt you have a ton of real shooting data and the conclusions you draw from that is certainly the most trustworthy.

My question on your results is only in regard to your chrono data.

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I use the chrony primarily for temperature testing, and for those, since you're looking for a change between two temperatures, the absolute accuracy of the chronograph is a minor factor.
</div></div>

This statement is the only thing I am questioning and I am not calling you a liar.......I hope you know me better than that.

I was just asking for an explanation of why you trust this data, if you are so inclined.
The chrono would have to be accurate to within less than .6 fps to make the assumption that you have .6 of variance. I have no evidence that this is the case with chrono's.

Your logic "seems" to imply that they cannot be trusted to within 1 fps for actual velicity data but that they are more acurate than this in measuring variation between shots.....in varying conditions.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Either you completely misread what I wrote, or you don't know what variance is, because nowhere did I say anything which would allow you to conclude that I believe I have a chronograph accurate to 0.6 fps in velocity measurement, which I certainly do not. In fact, I don't believe such a device even exists.

What I said was, "The difference between 0.6 and 1 isn't of much practical effect", when I was speaking about the downrange effect of knowing whether the change of muzzle velocity was 0.6 fps per degree F or whether it was 1.0 fps per degree F.

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the chrony primarily for temperature testing, and for those, since you're looking for a change between two temperatures, the absolute accuracy of the chronograph is a minor factor.
</div></div>
Irritating you was not my intent, believe it or not.

I am only trying to understand what you posted.
I assume that you are only establishing the 30-90 degree variance with the Chrono, about 36 fps in this case.
36 fps is about 1.33 percent of 2700......the approximate velocity we are discussing.

Was this testing done on the same day and atmoshperic conditions with the measured change being a change in barrel temp with cartridge-chambered time for the powder to adjust to the barrel or was it shot in different atmospheric conditions that may have caused some reasonable variation in the function of the chrono? Of course, you ruled out lighting conditions with the covered area so that is not a factor.

I was not doubting the info, but attempting to understand what gives you faith in it.

You owe me no explanation. Just asking.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

The tests were not done on the same day.

They were done on days when the ambient temperature was either 30 degrees or 90 degrees, with the rifle and the ammunition - of the same lot, i.e. both loaded from the same lot of powder and primer - both at the ambient temperature, with enough time between shots for the rifle to return to the ambient temperature.

You can do that when you live on a facility with a 1000 yard - or more - range.

While it's possible that the chronograph is temperature sensitive and has an error which is proportional to the ambient temperature, I regard that as a neglible factor.

 

[maladat]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean,
I can't tell you how glad I am to have found this thread. I have been planning for months to pick up an Android phone the moment a decent one is available on contract for AT&T (not interested in paying $500+ for a Nexus 1) and I have been hoping a good ballistic calculator was available. To find that one is available with such a depth of features and such a quick response/update cycle is available is fantastic!

I will be downloading the full version of your program as soon as I get an Android phone, and I would pay a lot more than $10 for it.

Thanks!
Jimmy

P.S. All of the discussion in this thread is fascinating.

I have to say I have a lot of respect for Lindy. Anyone who can be a long range precision shooter somewhere as windy as Rockport is either a lot more talented or a lot more patient than I am. I have enough trouble casting a lure in 30+ mph gusting wind.

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Thanks Jimmy. Glad to see you going Android rather than iPhone.

 

[maladat]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Apple makes really pretty stuff but I have never been particularly interested in such a closed, controlled environment.

 

[TalkingBush]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seankndy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Jimmy. Glad to see you going Android rather than iPhone. </div></div>+1 Android is the future, and eventually the public will realize it. In Android 2.2, we will get native Flash support too.

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Lindy;
Please excuse the delayed reply....been very busy.

Thanks for the additional info.
I have seen some pretty wild swings on my old PACT chrono, more than should be attributed to powder temp variation......but then it is an old one and I have little confidence in it.

I do not recall you mentioning living on a 1K range before now. It must be nice.

My access to 1K is pretty limited. I would very much enjoyed unlimited access to a range like that.

 

[jpistolero02]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean...is the free version no longer available? I had to flash my phone and when I go back to the market the only thing that comes up is the full version. If I have to pay now, I guess that will be fine with all the hard work you have put in!

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean,

Bought my new Motorola Droid on Monday and my new Shooter on Wednesday. So far things are within .5 MOA of my EXBAL out to 1000 yds; Great! When comparing Google earth with my house's elevation and the Shooter's elev auto elev, it's 406 ft different. Any comments?

Thanks,

Alan

 

[Rafael]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Seans program does not determine elevation.
This data comes from the GPS unit built into the phone, or from the reporting station........not sure which on the reporting station.

Sean has no control over errors in the GPS unit or errors from the reporting Station.

Still, 406 feet does not represent a big change in pressure and can likely be ignored.

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Rafael,

Totally agree with your assessment. Now I feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

[BarrettHunter]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

What's the difference in the bullet library between the regular and the one that says (litz)?

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

BarrettHunter, this is answered in the FAQ at http://sean.kndy.net/shooter/

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Attended our monthly sniper shoot today and had problems. I'm sure it's the nut behind the wheel. Our elev is 6565' and it kept trying to plug in something in the neighborhood of 7100 to 7300'. IIRC, my 900 yd come-ups were off by a good 12+ minutes.

Sean,

A little tutorial please. I'd like to be able to plug in actual station pressure from my Kestrel. Until I'm more proficient with it and I can trust the Google weather input, I'm sticking to what I trust in a hurry up and pinch.

I still love it though!

Alan

 

[seankndy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

GSSP,

Altitude is received from the satellite fix. Usually if you just let it sit there a second it will get a more accurate fix shortly. I may add a small note that comes up to let you know the accuracy of the fix.

If you want to enter station pressure, turn off auto-atmosphere then choose "Station" for "Pressure Input Type" within the shot data input screen.

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean,

I'll try that.

If the GPS unit is not picking up an altitude fix might the phone be pulling the elev from a local "city"? Their is a very small town a few miles away where Google Earth puts the elev @ 7293'.

Alan

 

[Lindy]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

The predicted elevation for a 900 yard shot could not possibly have been off by 12 MOA because of an altitude error of less than 1000 feet. An elevation difference of 1000 feet with my .308 load produces a change of about three-quarters of an MOA. You have some other problem.

 

[ubet]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean, finally got to use your program yesterday. Went and sighted in a new 308 (never owned or shot a 308) after I had it zeroed went to 300 to get a zero there with factory hornady ammo. Then to do some load tkesting. I put the info and it was dead on first shot was dead center. Pretty impressed!

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Introducing "Shooter", ballistics for Android!

Sean,

I may have discovered what the problems is. When I checked the zero on my 6.5x47 last week, the temp was 37.5 and that is what I entered for powder temp and temp in the "edit ammo profile" screen.

Then when shooting on Saturday, I would enter the actual temp into the "atmospheric condition" which was in the high 50 and low 60's when we were shooting. I just now noticed the "powder temp" duplicates the "atmospheric" temp and increases the MV from my nominal 2797 fps to 3449.5 fps when I used 59 deg. This brought my proven come up of 22.5 MOA to 13.4 MOA.

Any way to get the automatic "powder temp" to stay the same as in the "edit ammo profile" screen?

Again, I'm not complaining, just making note of what I'm seeing. Still love this thing.

Alan