Night Vision IRay RH25 Micro video/picture thread
- Thread starter Surgeon_Shooter
- Start date
You would be wrong.
I'm running dual collimated RH25s and the advantage over a single RH25 and a PVS-14 is significant. The advantage over solely a single RH25 is also significant. When both eyeballs receive the same picture, the (or at least my) brain has a much easier time using all the available information in the image. The opposite is also true. Anyone who has scanned through a Pulsar Accolade or NVision Atlas and then gone back to a single-eye thermal will attest the same.
All the pre-production units had those, so I assume they were prototypes that didn't make the final cut. This is unfortunate, as one of the annoyances of the RH25s I own is the objective lens is difficult to find and adjust easily on the fly. And FORGET about trying to do it with gloves on.
I havent tried to use the rh25 in dual band but had quite a few hours on different setups: breach/ mod armory bridge/ 14 and the the mh25/ RQE bridge/ 14. The KAC RQE bridge was leaps and bounds better that everything else in my opinion but it was never perfect. I gave up dual band all together because of the alignment issues and weight. I think if you dont mind the weight its best to just alternate one side up and the other down, I felt like running both wasnt good for my brain and became difficult to use under pressure while hunting.
Last month I came across a PFN 640+ Falcon (Euro Spec RH25) and despite missing some of the iRay USA stuff, it was too good a deal to pass on. Below is everything it came with, note it’s black housing and missing the ADM mount included with iRay USA (they also forgot the 18650 batts).
I originally bought it hoping to use it primarily as a clip on for use with .22LR, 5.56 and 7.62 out to 300M on rabbits, turkey, deer, varmint/pests, etc. The PFN 640+ doesn’t come with the reticle enabled (EU regulations) but the user can enable it by simultaneously holding the 3 control buttons down for 3s. I also noticed that the laser/pointer can be turned on and indicated on screen but couldn’t see it with an I2 NVG. I took a closer look at the pointer window(between the obj and batt covers below)and at the right angle could see the space behind it is actually empty, so again EU regs at play.
I haven’t spent as much time tweeking it as I’d have liked but I’ve switched the obj cover out with an old NF one which works waaay better focusing but I‘m still thinking about how best to secure it. Also changed the eyepiece and the pin port plug with parts I like better that I had in my scrap bin. I’ve also modified and installed a Wilcox shoe to use with Trijicon magnifier flip mount. The Wilcox shoe doesn’t fit snugly in the Trijicon (I have several of each mixed and matched them and none fit tight) so I drilled and tapped a set screw into one of the shoes as a temporary solution. I’m going to try and get an Armourwerx shoe to see if that works better, more to follow.
One thing I’m finding is you really want the RH25 to be as close as possible to the same plane as your day scope.
Just cuz, I tried an old MTM magnifier with the RH and I was a little surprised that it work and fairly well too.
The FOV is pretty tight but it works. Should I ever want to ‘really” use it I’ll have to turn a custom adapter for it as it’s only friction fit with the NF cap in the pic.
Next Post-Comparison Pix, Set Up and Settings.
I originally bought it hoping to use it primarily as a clip on for use with .22LR, 5.56 and 7.62 out to 300M on rabbits, turkey, deer, varmint/pests, etc. The PFN 640+ doesn’t come with the reticle enabled (EU regulations) but the user can enable it by simultaneously holding the 3 control buttons down for 3s. I also noticed that the laser/pointer can be turned on and indicated on screen but couldn’t see it with an I2 NVG. I took a closer look at the pointer window(between the obj and batt covers below)and at the right angle could see the space behind it is actually empty, so again EU regs at play.
I haven’t spent as much time tweeking it as I’d have liked but I’ve switched the obj cover out with an old NF one which works waaay better focusing but I‘m still thinking about how best to secure it. Also changed the eyepiece and the pin port plug with parts I like better that I had in my scrap bin. I’ve also modified and installed a Wilcox shoe to use with Trijicon magnifier flip mount. The Wilcox shoe doesn’t fit snugly in the Trijicon (I have several of each mixed and matched them and none fit tight) so I drilled and tapped a set screw into one of the shoes as a temporary solution. I’m going to try and get an Armourwerx shoe to see if that works better, more to follow.
One thing I’m finding is you really want the RH25 to be as close as possible to the same plane as your day scope.
Just cuz, I tried an old MTM magnifier with the RH and I was a little surprised that it work and fairly well too.
The FOV is pretty tight but it works. Should I ever want to ‘really” use it I’ll have to turn a custom adapter for it as it’s only friction fit with the NF cap in the pic.
Next Post-Comparison Pix, Set Up and Settings.
Comparison pix between a MTM w/ light filter vs the RH25, also both with the Insight 3x Germanium Magnifier for the MTM. Standard caveats apply for trying to take pics with an iPad behind a lense, the resulting imagery is shite but at least the results are all from the same conditions, PoV and have some comparative value.
MTM w/ Magnifier
RH25 w/ magnifier
MTM blur at bottom is the ATPIAL on my pic rail
RH25 again blur at bottom is the ATPIAL
The big takeaway from the pics IMO? While MTM is still pretty good, what you see is damn near all you get other than changing the polarity there are no other options to refine the image. You can’t even change the brightness, ergo the OEM selling the rose colored filter in a weak assed attempt to decrease the solar attack on your Mark 1 eyeball in the dead of night.
Sample shots of the setup
Clip on use.
First point I have yet to go live fire with the RH25 in any way as I’m still working the kinks out setup wise. Everything thus far has simply been me fitting it in front of various scopes and fiddling around it to see what doesn’t work, what works and what seems to work best.
So far I’ve tried it with the following day scopes:
Athlon G2 Cronus BTR 4.5-29, nothing I could do w/ the RH25 or the scope could make this useable. The Cronus was on a 30MOA base which may have been the main problem or possibly something with the objective being 56mm? Either way I’m not sure and I got fed up with it, especially given that it would be waaaay too much optic for the RH25 to use anway.
A Vortex Razor HD G2 3-18 pretty much the same results as the Cronus and at the time I only had the OEM shock absorbing mount and it sits far to high for me to use with any of my optics since I’ve got all of them in rings that are as low as possible.
An old NF 2.5-10 NXS, this worked not too bad for the most part but being SFP and not being useable at max power to get use of full value subtensions. I will probably avoid using any SFP glass with the RH25 for this reason.
While I’ve tried a 1-8 and a 4-16 NF ATACR I don't have either mounted on rifles and as I mentioned with the Vortex the alignment issue didn’t allow for much of a chance to get a proper evaluation. I may relook at these again depending on what I decide to put the ATACR‘s on.
Most recently I tried an Athlon Ares BTR G2 2.5-15 APRS5. To my surprise thus far this is the one scope I have found to work the most satisfactorily with the RH clipped on. I still have to shoot it but it seems good from 2.5x (pic below)zooming up to 10x if desired, yes it pixelated but useable if you power UP so you know what you‘re looking at (no pic right now).
Settings
I’ve tried just about everything you can change with both the scopes and the RH. I won’t say this as an absolute but I’m getting an impression that each different day scope will have its own unique settings to optimize the image and remove as much parallax as possible. So what, where to start?
First your day scope: Turrets set where you want, FFP Diopter is properly adjusted, it’s on the lowest magnification and parallax at shortest setting. I’ve tried going up thru to infinity and while not alot of difference the nearest setting seemed slightly better with my Ares anyway.
Second before mounting the RH turn it on, adjust the eyepiece, and turn off the shit you don’t want, set your color I like red for scanning but with a red illum reticle…..not so good. IMO black hot looks like it will be the best option if you use illum and white hot if not. Scan around and make any other changes to the image as you like, set to clip on mode and mount to your rifle. I’m not settled on what the best dist between the scope obj and RH eyepiece is yet YMMV too. I do believe you should try to get both as close as possible to the same height, I know for a fact this will really help when increasing to magnification and almost certainly positively improve other things like the parallax, zeroing etc, etc.
Once mounted get on your day scope look at your preffered tgt at the distance you want to setup for and adjust the RH eyepiece first then the RH focus ring. Once these are as good as I can get then I come back to the day scope adjust the parallax to see if there is any improvement to be had then lastly increasing the magnification if desired.
If you did a decent job setting up the image on the RH before mounting it you shouldn’t have to dive into those settings again but if you do it’s pretty easy to do it in clip on mode while mounted with the icons automatically moving to the center of the image when toggled. At a minimum it’s a good idea to memorize the shortcut buttonology for NUC’ing and powersave. AND
My Dog, just cuz.
Would love to hear what others have learned and how they setup their RH25’s in Clip On mode?
MTM w/ Magnifier
RH25 w/ magnifier
MTM blur at bottom is the ATPIAL on my pic rail
RH25 again blur at bottom is the ATPIAL
The big takeaway from the pics IMO? While MTM is still pretty good, what you see is damn near all you get other than changing the polarity there are no other options to refine the image. You can’t even change the brightness, ergo the OEM selling the rose colored filter in a weak assed attempt to decrease the solar attack on your Mark 1 eyeball in the dead of night.
Sample shots of the setup
Clip on use.
First point I have yet to go live fire with the RH25 in any way as I’m still working the kinks out setup wise. Everything thus far has simply been me fitting it in front of various scopes and fiddling around it to see what doesn’t work, what works and what seems to work best.
So far I’ve tried it with the following day scopes:
Athlon G2 Cronus BTR 4.5-29, nothing I could do w/ the RH25 or the scope could make this useable. The Cronus was on a 30MOA base which may have been the main problem or possibly something with the objective being 56mm? Either way I’m not sure and I got fed up with it, especially given that it would be waaaay too much optic for the RH25 to use anway.
A Vortex Razor HD G2 3-18 pretty much the same results as the Cronus and at the time I only had the OEM shock absorbing mount and it sits far to high for me to use with any of my optics since I’ve got all of them in rings that are as low as possible.
An old NF 2.5-10 NXS, this worked not too bad for the most part but being SFP and not being useable at max power to get use of full value subtensions. I will probably avoid using any SFP glass with the RH25 for this reason.
While I’ve tried a 1-8 and a 4-16 NF ATACR I don't have either mounted on rifles and as I mentioned with the Vortex the alignment issue didn’t allow for much of a chance to get a proper evaluation. I may relook at these again depending on what I decide to put the ATACR‘s on.
Most recently I tried an Athlon Ares BTR G2 2.5-15 APRS5. To my surprise thus far this is the one scope I have found to work the most satisfactorily with the RH clipped on. I still have to shoot it but it seems good from 2.5x (pic below)zooming up to 10x if desired, yes it pixelated but useable if you power UP so you know what you‘re looking at (no pic right now).
Settings
I’ve tried just about everything you can change with both the scopes and the RH. I won’t say this as an absolute but I’m getting an impression that each different day scope will have its own unique settings to optimize the image and remove as much parallax as possible. So what, where to start?
First your day scope: Turrets set where you want, FFP Diopter is properly adjusted, it’s on the lowest magnification and parallax at shortest setting. I’ve tried going up thru to infinity and while not alot of difference the nearest setting seemed slightly better with my Ares anyway.
Second before mounting the RH turn it on, adjust the eyepiece, and turn off the shit you don’t want, set your color I like red for scanning but with a red illum reticle…..not so good. IMO black hot looks like it will be the best option if you use illum and white hot if not. Scan around and make any other changes to the image as you like, set to clip on mode and mount to your rifle. I’m not settled on what the best dist between the scope obj and RH eyepiece is yet YMMV too. I do believe you should try to get both as close as possible to the same height, I know for a fact this will really help when increasing to magnification and almost certainly positively improve other things like the parallax, zeroing etc, etc.
Once mounted get on your day scope look at your preffered tgt at the distance you want to setup for and adjust the RH eyepiece first then the RH focus ring. Once these are as good as I can get then I come back to the day scope adjust the parallax to see if there is any improvement to be had then lastly increasing the magnification if desired.
If you did a decent job setting up the image on the RH before mounting it you shouldn’t have to dive into those settings again but if you do it’s pretty easy to do it in clip on mode while mounted with the icons automatically moving to the center of the image when toggled. At a minimum it’s a good idea to memorize the shortcut buttonology for NUC’ing and powersave. AND
My Dog, just cuz.
Would love to hear what others have learned and how they setup their RH25’s in Clip On mode?
I zoom my Razor 1-6x to max power and turn the RH25 menu on. The menu icons produce a *fixed* point of reference. Then I tweek my RH25 ocular focus until any parallax absolutely dissappears. I can quickly and easily get <1 pixel of parallax shift with maximum head movement behind my scope.
I actually marked my focus ring with a sharpie so I could get it close without even having to look through it. It’s good for getting parallax real close. If I were trying to take a 200+ yard shot I’d probably take a moment to fine tune it.
I actually marked my focus ring with a sharpie so I could get it close without even having to look through it. It’s good for getting parallax real close. If I were trying to take a 200+ yard shot I’d probably take a moment to fine tune it.
@TF626, thanks for the informative posts!
Since you are probably the only one here so far that has the Euro RH25, can you check if your unit has the 'jello effect' in helmet mounted mode that has been reported by some member here with their US units? Something about there being more lag in the image when the system is mounted upside down in helmet configuration. iRay USA has already released a new firmware that supposedly fixes this issue, but it's only for the RH25 sold in the US and will brick the Euro units and make them unusable (per iRay website). Thanks a lot!
Since you are probably the only one here so far that has the Euro RH25, can you check if your unit has the 'jello effect' in helmet mounted mode that has been reported by some member here with their US units? Something about there being more lag in the image when the system is mounted upside down in helmet configuration. iRay USA has already released a new firmware that supposedly fixes this issue, but it's only for the RH25 sold in the US and will brick the Euro units and make them unusable (per iRay website). Thanks a lot!
I gave this a try tonight and initially I thought maybe so I went back and forth between helmet and handheld a couple of times and I‘m actually pretty sure it doesn’t have the lag or “jello” effect. Going from Hand to Helmet the vertical edges become straight and then iit noticeably demagnifies, otherwise looks very much the same to me.
My RH automatically turns off the icons (compass inclinometer battery level etc) around the edges after a few seconds in all the modes, does the US one as well?
It might HIDE the compass currently, but the compass is still on. Every bell and whistle sucks battery power out of the unit. They need to do a firmware update allowing the settings to be saved between power cycles.
I picked one of these up recently and have been testing it in clip on mode in front of a 1.1-4x lpvo scope which doesn't have any parallax adjustment. I've noticed the same thing as some other posters where when I adjust the front objective lens of the rh25 the screen image moves in relation to the scope reticle. I do think it is a parallax issue and this drift does get better to some degree after really fine tuning the rear ocular at max power of my scope. I've followed what was posted earlier in this thread.
Could the x/y adjustment of the screen image on the rh25 be adding to or causing this issue to be so dramatic? I did the x/y calibration at 1x of the scope but since there is nothing showing on the screen to calibrate with the reticle of the scope it's just a best guess.
Could the x/y adjustment of the screen image on the rh25 be adding to or causing this issue to be so dramatic? I did the x/y calibration at 1x of the scope but since there is nothing showing on the screen to calibrate with the reticle of the scope it's just a best guess.
Could I ask you to measure the length of Wilcox shoe portion of this rail? The trijicon flip mount i have is for a Voodoo and it seems to use a propriety shoe that is longer than a Wilcox so there is about a 1/16” gap between the back of the shoe and the spring loaded locking gate. The resulting slop is a no go for obvious reasons. Very frustrating when industry doesn‘t stick to established stds when there isn’t any copyright infringement.
There’s a power save mode; you push the power+menu buttons and it powers off the screen but instantly wakes up when you push the buttons again. Good for either saving power or not wanting to blast light around (controlling stray light).
So do you think this gap is big enough for use with the pictail mount? I don’t want to move it any further forward or it interferes with switch’s and cable management and I’d really rather not have to reposition the scope in the mount (it’s kind of a hassle with the LT RMR ring mount).
I Haven’t measured the gap but it’s around 0.025” I’d guess. I tried to flex the rail and get them to touch but I cannot. So it should be safe, right?
I Haven’t measured the gap but it’s around 0.025” I’d guess. I tried to flex the rail and get them to touch but I cannot. So it should be safe, right?
Personally I would not run that. Too small of a gap and asking for a fender bender. Have you see how much guns move under recoil?
It’s the objective lens itself. The shift happens whether you’re using it in clipon mode with an optic or as a stand-alone TWS. X/Y offset adjustment alone won’t correct for this.
It comes from the optical axis of the objective lens not being completely parallel to the pitch axis of the objective focus ring (evidenced by the optical axis exhibiting precession as it rotates) and/or the the optical axis not being 100% concentric the very center of the staring array nor concentric to the focus pitch axis itself. Staring array adjustment (X/Y offset) can only address one of those 3 issues; but that’s not really an option because the ideal X/Y optical position of the array center may not be the position it has to be in to be “zeroed” to your rifle.
The practical solution is to set the objective to infinity, put witness marks on it, and leave it alone. If you’re going to bounce between helmet mount and weapon mount and be playing with near/far focus a lot... possibly put a focus throw lever on it that repeatably sets your weapon mounted (infinity) focus by touching off to the battery cap.
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Thanks @Joeymac I appreciate the thoughts and response. What you described seems to explain what I am seeing, and the practical solution mentioned is what I will most likely end up doing.
I guess I am a little thrown off by other rh25 users not reporting this type of effect. So potentially is it a QC variance or is it more exacerbated by the choice of day time optic, or both.
I guess I am a little thrown off by other rh25 users not reporting this type of effect. So potentially is it a QC variance or is it more exacerbated by the choice of day time optic, or both.
It’s probably because 99.99% of shooting is going to be done at infinite focus, so the shift was negligible/unnoticeable.
I never even thought to check for such a thing until you mentioned it.
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Have you tried to put your setup on paper yet? I didnt start looking into the issue with my unit till I found out it had a major POA/POI shift, completely off paper at 25 yards. So in theory you could set it to infinity and never move it but I believe it stems from an internal quality control issue.
I sent my unit into Iray and they sent a brand new thermal back to me, this unit does not have any POA/POI shift when attached and zero image shift while adjusting focus. I would send it back in a get it resolved, no need to battle with a defective thermal.
When I received mine back from Iray they included the focus fin so I assume they have it available to purchase.
Attachments
Typically, my intent is to run it ON the rifle 90% of the time; so the focus would be untouched and left at infinity; meaning anything near to about 30 yards is decently in focus. I did notice the shifting image when playing with the objective focus while sitting static just aiming in the back yard. But you piqued my curiosity and I went out last night with the intent to test how bad this shift might be... This is the result at 50 yards:
Setup: 16” LaRue Stealth barrel, Razor 1-6x, RH25 (flip cap acts as repeatable infinity-focus-stop). Razor also had its zero confirmed on a shoot’n’see target immediately before shooting the RH25 test groups by using a Malkoff E2HT white light and it stacked a nice little quarter-sized group dead center at 50 yards... so the day scope is dialed in
I figure the 2.4”x3.7” foot warmer has about a 2”x3.5” heated area. So the 10-shot groups look to be a bit under 2” inches, give or take. Not great but not terrible (for shooting off a table, through a 640 camera, in the dark, and using the magazine as a monopod
). The group circled in blue was a control group with objective focus set to infinity (using the flip cap) just the same as it had been “zeroed”. Then I brought the focus in closer turning the ring about 60 degrees to shoot the group circled in red. Perfect focus was actually somewhere between infinity and 60 degrees, but the 50-yard target was still pretty well focused. The forgiving focus actually surprised me. Point being, if you were adjusting focus on the fly during a hunt by using sight picture alone, you could be +/-30 degrees on the ring rotation and easily not even realize it.
The shift due to focus adjustment is probably 2.25” (about 4.5MOA @ 50yds) so not good. Moreover, when I had previously taken the time to dial in the thermal X/Y offset it was perfect ... and I had confirmed my dayscope was dead on immediately beforehand. Same ammo, same gun, same conditions, and only 50 yards. But that blue control group is still a good ~1.75” low. Looks like something caused a shift there too.
This isn’t “off paper” but it’s also enough to kick you out of the A-zone at 100+ yards. I think I’m going to reach out to iRay. I might try another mini range session first and bring a second gun to test zero shift between rifles.
@Ranger93 how completely did the new unit from iRay eliminate shift? <1MOA? 2MOA? A bit more? Because it looks like I’m in the 4-5 MOA ballpark.
Typically, my intent is to run it ON the rifle 90% of the time; so the focus would be untouched and left at infinity; meaning anything near to about 30 yards is decently in focus. I did notice the shifting image when playing with the objective focus while sitting static just aiming in the back yard. But you piqued my curiosity and I went out last night with the intent to test how bad this shift might be... This is the result at 50 yards:
Setup: 16” LaRue Stealth barrel, Razor 1-6x, RH25 (flip cap acts as repeatable infinity-focus-stop). Razor also had its zero confirmed on a shoot’n’see target immediately before shooting the RH25 test groups by using a Malkoff E2HT white light and it stacked a nice little quarter-sized group dead center at 50 yards... so the day scope is dialed in
View attachment 7889990
View attachment 7889985
I figure the 2.4”x3.7” foot warmer has about a 2”x3.5” heated area. So the 10-shot groups look to be a bit under 2” inches, give or take. Not great but not terrible (for shooting off a table, through a 640 camera, in the dark, and using the magazine as a monopod
The group circled in blue was a control group with objective focus set to infinity (using the flip cap) just the same as it had been “zeroed”. Then I brought the focus in closer turning the ring about 60 degrees to shoot the group circled in red. Perfect focus was actually somewhere between infinity and 60 degrees, but the 50-yard target was still pretty well focused. The forgiving focus actually surprised me. Point being, if you were adjusting focus on the fly during a hunt by using sight picture alone, you could be +/-30 degrees on the ring rotation and easily not even realize it.
The shift due to focus adjustment is probably 2.25” (about 4.5MOA @ 50yds) so not good. Moreover, when I had previously taken the time to dial in the thermal X/Y offset it was perfect ... and I had confirmed my dayscope was dead on immediately beforehand. Same ammo, same gun, same conditions, and only 50 yards. But that blue control group is still a good ~1.75” low. Looks like something caused a shift there too.
This isn’t “off paper” but it’s also enough to kick you out of the A-zone at 100+ yards. I think I’m going to reach out to iRay. I might try another mini range session first and bring a second gun to test zero shift between rifles.
@Ranger93 how completely did the new unit from iRay eliminate shift? <1MOA? 2MOA? A bit more? Because it looks like I’m in the 4-5 MOA ballpark.
I need to pick up some hand warmers and try what you did to get a accurate measure but I am hitting a 4" gong at 160 yards so I can't be too far off.
@Ranger93 get the foot warmers instead... they’re two to a pack and self-adhesive. And cheap in the summer
Ok so I had to make some adjustments with screen position but now its dead on. Best way I found to do this was chuck up the rifle in a shop vice, pick a object to focus on and switch between the two till the thermal is adjusted to your day optic. So far on and off has held a repeatable zero with no POA/POI shift.
What mount are people finding puts a 30mm lpvo closest to the center of the micro clip on using the adm quick mount? My 1.5” adm qd mount with horizontal rings is a couple tenths below the micro. Need to bust out the calipers.
@Ranger
How about if you tun the RH25 focus while aiming at an object ~50 yards away... do you see the image shift in front of your zoomed in scope? You can turn the focus ring a good 120+ degrees and still have a usable picture... but if it shifts the image in front of the scope that’s no good.
I’m going to do more testing tomorrow with better documentation... if mine is problem Eric again I going to quantify it and reach out to iRay.
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Mine is about the same with a badger 1.5". I don't notice it affecting performance at all.
Zero image shift when adjusting the objective focus (muzzle end of thermal). If you are seeing this I would definitely send it in.
OK, here's an update.
TL;DR ... I'm reaching out to iRay to have it looked at under warranty.
I took the RH25 to the range with 3 rifles to test mount-shift and zoom shift. Plan was to take 20 shots each at 100 yards from the same box of ammo at the same time/temp/conditions with the RH25 at the same settings between each. 5 shots to verify day optic zero, 5 shots with RH25 focus set to "infinity", 5 shots RH25 focus set rotated 120-degrees, and 5 more shots to reconfirm day optic zero. All of the optics are zeroed at 200 yards so they're going to shoot high at 100. The red line shows the day optic POA to POI... so all the RH25 offsets are calculated form there. I had a pretty gusty crosswind from 10-18mph so I wasn't worried about tiny groups, I was just sort of taking quicker controlled shots off of the bipod or block... no vises or sleds or bags or anything.
Rifle 1 (Primary home to the RH25)
16" 5.56mm AR
Razor 1-6X in LT204 (1.5" 0 MOA)
Hornady 77gr T2 Frontier
Magnification set to 6X
Having stepped out to 100 yards now, It looks like I still have to dial in the X/Y offset a tad more. When set at infinity focus my zero shifted 1.75" to 4:30 (even less when discounting that flyer) - I am unconcerned with this as the X/Y offset will correct for this. However rotating the focus ring closer 120 degrees caused a 6.3" nearly vertical shift (~6MOA) from the original infinity reference focus. This is unsatisfactory. Ignore the bottom footwarmer, it was not part of this test.
Rifle 2
Tavor 7
Sig Bravo3 Prism (1.54" 0 MOA)
Hornady 155gr TAP/AMAX
Magnification 3X
Yeah I know, LOL... not very accurate. But it's the only other gun I have with an optic really suitable for putting behind the RH25. It usually holds <3MOA. It kind of did this time out, but I'm not sure why it strung the first and fourth shot groups noticeably apart. For fairness, I just called i all one big group like above. I don't really even care to investigate it much; it's not a precision gun anyways and has a 3X prism so i don't really care... it's not like it's ever going to shoot further than 350ish yards. On a side note, the Sig Bravo3 Prism is a great optic for a thermal clip on; it's much shorter than an LPVO, good height integral mount, day bright horseshoe BDC reticle with 40k hour battery, and good flat image clarity with crazy field of view... 40% more field of view than even 1.5X or 4X ACOGs or the PA 2X GLx. Image at 3X is still nice through the RH25 and the extra field of view is nice for scanning, too. Anyways...
it shows about a 2" mount shift towards 4:00 from zero, but looks REALLY similar to the AR15 X/Y offset above. I'll bet that cleans up nicely when I tweak the offset (noted above). No big deal. But when I rotate the RH25 objective focus ring 120 degrees I get a 6" 7:00 shift (5.7 MOA). I don't know if this shift is less severe because of the slight mount height difference or lower magnification or both... but it is large and still unsatisfactory either way.
Rifle 3
22" 6.5CM AR
Razor 3-18x50 in LT745 (1.5" 10 MOA)
Magnification set to ~6X
First off, this scope is OKish with the RH25, but not ideal. The little screen needed the large objective eyecup because the 50mm optic could see "around" the thermal giving a ghost image. And as a consequence of tiny screen in front of a 50mm scope the image through the scope was a bit dim and I had to crank the brightness... so if you were going helmet-to-rifle with the thermal, you have to take a moment to change brightness settings and add/remove the big eyecup. Otherwise, the image is just fine from 3-6X like any other LPVO.
The mounting focus shift was nearly 4.4" ... this might shrink a tad when I sharpen up the X/Y thermal digital offset (above), but it would still be significant and unsatisfactory. I don't know if this is a mount issue because it's in a 10MOA mount (versus 0MOA) or something else. Maybe it's because this rifle had a loaded bipod (flexing the handguard) and the other two rifles were setting on a rest. Furthermore rotating the focus ring caused a 6.8" nearly vertical (~6.5MOA). Again, this is bad. At least it's repeatably bad(?) This was pretty much a waste of a $40 box of 147gr ELD-X
TL;DR ... I'm reaching out to iRay to have it looked at under warranty.
I took the RH25 to the range with 3 rifles to test mount-shift and zoom shift. Plan was to take 20 shots each at 100 yards from the same box of ammo at the same time/temp/conditions with the RH25 at the same settings between each. 5 shots to verify day optic zero, 5 shots with RH25 focus set to "infinity", 5 shots RH25 focus set rotated 120-degrees, and 5 more shots to reconfirm day optic zero. All of the optics are zeroed at 200 yards so they're going to shoot high at 100. The red line shows the day optic POA to POI... so all the RH25 offsets are calculated form there. I had a pretty gusty crosswind from 10-18mph so I wasn't worried about tiny groups, I was just sort of taking quicker controlled shots off of the bipod or block... no vises or sleds or bags or anything.
Rifle 1 (Primary home to the RH25)
16" 5.56mm AR
Razor 1-6X in LT204 (1.5" 0 MOA)
Hornady 77gr T2 Frontier
Magnification set to 6X
Having stepped out to 100 yards now, It looks like I still have to dial in the X/Y offset a tad more. When set at infinity focus my zero shifted 1.75" to 4:30 (even less when discounting that flyer) - I am unconcerned with this as the X/Y offset will correct for this. However rotating the focus ring closer 120 degrees caused a 6.3" nearly vertical shift (~6MOA) from the original infinity reference focus. This is unsatisfactory. Ignore the bottom footwarmer, it was not part of this test.
Rifle 2
Tavor 7
Sig Bravo3 Prism (1.54" 0 MOA)
Hornady 155gr TAP/AMAX
Magnification 3X
Yeah I know, LOL... not very accurate. But it's the only other gun I have with an optic really suitable for putting behind the RH25. It usually holds <3MOA. It kind of did this time out, but I'm not sure why it strung the first and fourth shot groups noticeably apart. For fairness, I just called i all one big group like above. I don't really even care to investigate it much; it's not a precision gun anyways and has a 3X prism so i don't really care... it's not like it's ever going to shoot further than 350ish yards. On a side note, the Sig Bravo3 Prism is a great optic for a thermal clip on; it's much shorter than an LPVO, good height integral mount, day bright horseshoe BDC reticle with 40k hour battery, and good flat image clarity with crazy field of view... 40% more field of view than even 1.5X or 4X ACOGs or the PA 2X GLx. Image at 3X is still nice through the RH25 and the extra field of view is nice for scanning, too. Anyways...
it shows about a 2" mount shift towards 4:00 from zero, but looks REALLY similar to the AR15 X/Y offset above. I'll bet that cleans up nicely when I tweak the offset (noted above). No big deal. But when I rotate the RH25 objective focus ring 120 degrees I get a 6" 7:00 shift (5.7 MOA). I don't know if this shift is less severe because of the slight mount height difference or lower magnification or both... but it is large and still unsatisfactory either way.
Rifle 3
22" 6.5CM AR
Razor 3-18x50 in LT745 (1.5" 10 MOA)
Magnification set to ~6X
First off, this scope is OKish with the RH25, but not ideal. The little screen needed the large objective eyecup because the 50mm optic could see "around" the thermal giving a ghost image. And as a consequence of tiny screen in front of a 50mm scope the image through the scope was a bit dim and I had to crank the brightness... so if you were going helmet-to-rifle with the thermal, you have to take a moment to change brightness settings and add/remove the big eyecup. Otherwise, the image is just fine from 3-6X like any other LPVO.
The mounting focus shift was nearly 4.4" ... this might shrink a tad when I sharpen up the X/Y thermal digital offset (above), but it would still be significant and unsatisfactory. I don't know if this is a mount issue because it's in a 10MOA mount (versus 0MOA) or something else. Maybe it's because this rifle had a loaded bipod (flexing the handguard) and the other two rifles were setting on a rest. Furthermore rotating the focus ring caused a 6.8" nearly vertical (~6.5MOA). Again, this is bad. At least it's repeatably bad(?) This was pretty much a waste of a $40 box of 147gr ELD-X
I’ve spoken to Iray USA customer service twice and they seem pretty adamant this is expected normal function and don’t seem willing to RMA to fix it.
Said they only RMA’d the other 1 or 2 from this thread to understand what was going on but now they consider it expected parallax and that it needs to be set to infinity focus and mark it to return to zero.
Also I’m about a month in on waiting for replacement adm mounts and iray seems to be playing fucking games with getting me the replacement mounts. Supposedly has shipped two different times “overnighted” and yet no mount or tracking ever has materialized.
Said they only RMA’d the other 1 or 2 from this thread to understand what was going on but now they consider it expected parallax and that it needs to be set to infinity focus and mark it to return to zero.
Also I’m about a month in on waiting for replacement adm mounts and iray seems to be playing fucking games with getting me the replacement mounts. Supposedly has shipped two different times “overnighted” and yet no mount or tracking ever has materialized.
One would think and expect that if that is how the unit operates that Iray would have set up witness marks for both the Diopter and the Objective and also included those instructions in its Operating Manual.
Or why some units have this "feature" and other do not.....
That’s not even possible to consistently “eyeball” the image because the depth of field allows you to take take shots at any number distances well enough. So you would absolutely NEED vernier-style objective index marks or some sort focus ring stop.
Also, even IF you wanted to cope with an optic that had to live at infinity focus to be accurate... Like most night optics it’s got a pretty limited depth of field. What if you set it up for a rifle and “zero” it focused on something 200+ yards away... but that also want to put it on a suppressed 22LR for some close in <25yd critter control? Your options are to shoot with the $6000 optic blurry as shit or just deal with 6+ MOA zero shifts?
Can anyone confirm wether or not the RH25 would work in front of a red dot/magnifier setup?
It does… poorly.
Take a handheld camera or Aurora or PVS14. hold it 12+ Inches in front of you face and try looking through it. If you think looking through a thermal is like looking through a straw to begin with; looking through it on the forearm of a rifle is like looking through a coffee stirrer.
Put your red dot or EOtech in a QD mount. Pull it off and put the RH25 on the gun in stand-alone mode. That will be 87x more useful
Take a handheld camera or Aurora or PVS14. hold it 12+ Inches in front of you face and try looking through it. If you think looking through a thermal is like looking through a straw to begin with; looking through it on the forearm of a rifle is like looking through a coffee stirrer.
Put your red dot or EOtech in a QD mount. Pull it off and put the RH25 on the gun in stand-alone mode. That will be 87x more useful
I appreciate your input, but you may have missed the 3x magnifier part of my question.
I don’t see why that would be a problem. Plenty of people have run that sort of setup with a Voodoo, Skeet, or other compact clip-on.
That was my thought also. I’ve seen people use the Voodoo and skeet that way and it’s basically like using a prism or LPVO. The same should apply.
I was just hoping someone here would chime in if they have used the RH25 with a magnifier and if so, how well it performs.
Example photo below
Attachments
The view through a 1-10 or similar LPVO was miles better than with a 3x, as seen here with a VooDoo -
Can anyone who has used both the MH25 and RH25 please tell me if the screen and menus are the same size?
I hated how small the screen and menu was on the MH25 (even using the 14 eyepiece), and really hoping it’s not the same on the RH25.
I hated how small the screen and menu was on the MH25 (even using the 14 eyepiece), and really hoping it’s not the same on the RH25.
I'm having a problem where I can't get videos off my unit. I can watch them using the RH25's playback feature. When I connect my iPhone via Wi-Fi, I only see still images—there are no videos to choose from. When I use the USB cord to connect to a Mac, the RH25 never shows up on the computer as a selectable drive. I've tried 3 different Mac computers.
