Rifle Scopes Issue with NightForce nx8

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#51
IdahoSpud said:
NF first said it was slipping in the rings
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Ok, but you can't actually see it slipping in the rings, right? It can't be rotated by hand in the ring? It does slide back and forth in the rings. If you leveled the scope, it stays leveled (and you confirmed this). Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but if it was slipping there surely will be some objective demonstration of this other than blown groups. I guess I'm not buying NF's explanation at all.

IdahoSpud said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but a tracking test would be hard/pointless to preform if the optic won’t even hold a basic zero first.
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Well, a test fail is as informative a data point as a test pass and it would give you objective data (if it failed) to go back to NF with.

But, others here are far more expert and knowledgeable than I.

Cheers
 
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#52
Baron23 said:
Ok, but you can't actually see it slipping in the rings, right? It can't be rotated by hand in the ring? It does slide back and forth in the rings. If you leveled the scope, it stays leveled (and you confirmed this). Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but if it was slipping there surely will be some objective demonstration of this other than blown groups. I guess I'm not buying NF's explanation at all.


Well, a test fail is as informative a data point as a test pass and it would give you objective data (if it failed) to go back to NF with.

But, others here are far more expert and knowledgeable than I.

Cheers
Click to expand...
It’s definitely not loose enough to be moved by hand, and never had been. NightForce sent pictures back showing the inside of the rings. The first set looked like they had been lapped. The scope body had ring marks. I could buy it that there was MAYBE an issue with the first mounting, even though I watched the guy do it correctly. But not all these subsequent times by different people with different rings all continually producing the same results.


Pics of the two ring sets
 

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#53
Are all the base screws flush with the bottom of the picatinny rail slot? Because if the ring cross bolt is riding on top of the screw head then it could explain the poi shift.
 
#56
918v said:
Is the picatinny rail bowed? Do you have something you know is perfectly flat to check?
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With a straight edge its flat. Besides, as I mentioned other optics worked fine on it, and I put the NX8 on another base and rifle and it still sucks.

I don’t know what else I can do to prove it’s isolated to the optic🤷🏻‍♂️
 
#57
You need a reputable gunsmith, someone well known who builds precision rifles, to test the scope on his rifle and replicate the problem and write it up. Then maybe NF will replace the scope.
 
#58
I had a somewhat similar issue like this. I found that when I leveled the rifle and took the scope and top half of the rings off and laid a torpedo level across the bottoms of the rings, one was dead level and the other was half a bubble off. Once I bedded the rail and had both reading dead level, the problem went away. Might be worth a try.
 
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#59
Who did the first mounting? ( possibly the culprit), and since their was MAYBE an issue is it possible that this led to repeated failures despite numerous mountings with other equipment and experienced shooters?
Lapped rings and ring marks on the tube usually indicate an initial mounting problem!, how bad are the marks on the tube?. I wonder since the NX8 is a short tube that poor mounting ( if this is actually what happened) makes it prone to damage!, I hope not as this is a scope I plan to purchase but I'm not sure now that Nightforce is claiming the scope is GTG!
Keep us informed of your results with Nightforce and or your troubleshooting this problem.
 
#60
IdahoSpud said:
The last correspondence with you guys was essentially “your scope is fine we promise, there’s nothing on our end.”

I asked for a refund considering this has been over a year of not only uselessness but has cost me over $2000 in ammo and components. You said no way, the scope is fine.


I hope you guys have another solution. I will call you directly Monday.
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Just a clarification; Doug isn't Nightforce. Doug is an independent dealer who just happens to be on this site. He has nothing to do with your scope. He doesn't even have to give you any help, since he had absolutely nothing to do with your initial purchase, but yet, here he is trying to help you out because his level of customer service is incredible. Bottom line is he's doing you a solid
 
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#61
Doug is a great resource here. That said, almost every tactical scope I have owned has had issues with holding zero at one time or another. I have had issues with getting scope manufacturers to believe there is a problem because they have so many problem free scopes returned to them. Most of the time the issue has happened after the gun has taken a fall. Normally because I slipped while hunting. One was a used scope that was sold here probably because the seller couldn't track down the issue. Usually, explaining the process for testing will convince them there is a problem.

I have never owned a Nightforce. I have never dealt with their customer service. I have tested tracking on a Leupold collimator and there was never a tracking issue with any of the broken scopes, so that should settle that arguement. I had a Razor AMG that was moving .2 mils that tracked perfect to 20 mils. I had to explain to them that I was checking zero on the same range (in my back yard) with the same lighting conditions and the same time of day and the same temps. I was getting tight groups, but the zero would move .2 mils every 150-200 rds or less. I sent it in. It had a broken erector. They fixed it. I had a Burris XTR2 that I dropped hunting when I slipped on ice. I sent a pic to the Burris rep of a 10 shot group at 100 that was 2.5" with he XTR2 and one that was 5/8" with a $300 basic hunting scope. They fixed the scope. I highly doubt it is a mounting issue. As much as they don't want to admit it. Nightforce likely has a scope with a failing erector.

I would see where Doug gets and then take Morgan up on his offer. If someone who is a proven good shooter can shoot a sub .5 moa group with their rifle/scope for five 5 shot groups and puts it on their gun in their rings and it shoots significantly bigger groups for a five 5 shot group average, I would say that is proof enough. If that happens, Nightforce needs put on blast until it is fixed. If it doesn't, then you'll know you have a problem elsewhere.
 
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#64
If you have or know someone with a Badger dead level or similar device, it would remove the rifle from the equation. The Badger eliminates the rail and rifle. Mount the scope in the rings, mount it to the dead level and run a tall target without firing a shot. Do it repeatedly and you will know whether it is the scope/rings. If the problem is still there, you can change rings and eliminate them as well and you can do it without firing a single shot. Best of all, you can video it all and supply it to NF as proof.

I never mount a new scope directly to the rifle without checking it on my dead level.

I have an ATACR 1-8 and it functions like all of my NF scopes...perfectly. However, even NF, provides a lemon every so often. Every high end, tier one company I have owned has had an issue.

BTW, was this purchased new? If so, why is the original dealer not helping you sort this through with NF?
 
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#66
IdahoSpud said:
I will reply to the other questions when I get done hunting for the night. Just saw this and wanted to throw out there I was banned from LRH for no other reason I’m sharing this about NF. When I mistakenly blamed Bergara they let it go on for 30 pages but just a couple post about nF and I was banned as well despite having broken no rules.

Edit. They just deleted my entire thread there. Don’t ever speak negatively about a site sponsor I guess. What a joke of a show Len is running there.
Click to expand...
Dude that LRH forum is a total joke!
I got banned as well for telling a guy he's a fucking idiot for taking 1200 yard shots at elk with a 6.5..
Bunch of amateur blouse wearing poodle Walker's over there, and Len just wants money from sponsors what a Tool.

Back on topic
I just got an NX8 from Doug and it's working flawlessly so far.
Like others said raise holy hell with NF and given their reputation they'll make it right.

On a side note I had an issue with a Vortex AMG recently and they straight up gave me an MSRP refund? I'm so impressed with their customer service that I bought another vortex just to support them

Good luck I hope you get this sorted out
 
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#67
Westernhntr said:
Dude that LRH forum is a total joke!
I got banned as well for telling a guy he's a fucking idiot for taking 1200 yard shots at elk with a 6.5..
Bunch of amateur blouse wearing poodle Walker's over there, and Len just wants money from sponsors what a Tool.

Back on topic
I just got an NX8 from Doug and it's working flawlessly so far.
Like others said raise holy hell with NF and given their reputation they'll make it right.

On a side note I had an issue with a Vortex AMG recently and they straight up gave me an MSRP refund? I'm so impressed with their customer service that I bought another vortex just to support them

Good luck I hope you get this sorted out
Click to expand...

Any site /company that needs to hide bad reviews is pathetic in my opinion. It screams that product/company can’t stand on its own.

I desperately want a refund so I can buy something that’s not NF, but that sounds like it’s out of the question.

Bergara gave me a full refund despite the fact that I’m a jackass and it wasn’t even their products fault. They went above and beyond to take care of me multiple times. I already bought another Bergara and will buy more in the future if I need another rifle at that price point.

Nik H- I bought it from a tiny gun shop out of state. I’d be surprised if they are even still in business.
 
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#71
Secant said:
I'm not sure how they even do it, but LRO is somehow worse than LRH. It's astonishing how much BAD info gets pumped out of those sites.....and often times by the resident "experts".

View attachment 7400955
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Man you nailed it !
Not sure I agree that they're worse than LRH but definitely up there.
The issue is that those forums are all about pushing products to people who have no Fing clue what they're doing..
But somehow if they spend 10k on gear they can go kill stuff at a mile
 
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#73
The Leupold fudds on LRH are the best. I had a three paragraph hit post on me because I said that Leupold was assembled in the USA and the glass is from China and Japan. The dude said I was a bad person for not supporting US based companies. I told him that nothing I had said was not true so go fuck your self. Which of course led to more turbo retardedness.
 
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#74
Don't know the issue but, here's some things to ponder-

NF could replace this scope with virtually no issue what so ever tot he company, multi million dollar companies don't worry about 1-2k here or there... But if it checks out good, and they have shot it and it also checked out, what would sending you another perfectly functioning scope do when it will be just the same? Nothing- That's why they are not replacing it- There rep is no bullshit, they don't win at the championships over and over because they build shit and don't stand behind it if it fails...

Gunsmiths are gunsmiths, scope builders are scope builders... The only thing the two products have in common is they both have screws... Be very careful when a gunsmith jumps to the conclusion of it being the scope, 'cuase he likely don't know dick about a scope...He'll tell you he does, but he doesn't, unless he's built scopes also...They are as similar as the moon and the sun, both planets, both in the same galaxy, after that, not even close to the same, how many gunsmith's are optics engineers? Exactly...

I don't know how much poi you have, and I'm not going to read through all of this, but I believe the NF rep has mentioned less than a 1/4 moa in the history of the company ever... Lets just for arguments sake say he exaggerated 2x over, ( he most likely DID NOT) as I know him personally, but lets pretend he misspoke, that would mean theoretically, 1/2 of a min of poi, if you have more than that, no way it's in the optic, and if you have that, still very very unlikely its in the optic, and if they checked it twice, simply no way it's the scope, they'd see it ( a blind monkey could with their equipment) and thed's fix it, send you a hat and an apology, and off you would go. That's how top tear companies do business- I don't care if guys on hear have an ax to grind with NF or not, but NF stands behind their product 100%, but with that, if it doesn't fail, they have to stand behind it too, or you will not find the issue in the rest of the shooting system, as they will be giving you false info...

Here's what I would say is for sure in my internet driven worthless opinion, but since that's what we do when we aren't shooting:

That scope is not pointed in the same place after the recoil of each shot, as in, it's moving, somehow, unless it's in the actual rifle...

Would be great to hear you found the issue, and all of us could be a little smarter for our next go around-

Best of luck
 
#77
300H&H said:
Don't know the issue but, here's some things to ponder-

NF could replace this scope with virtually no issue what so ever tot he company, multi million dollar companies don't worry about 1-2k here or there... But if it checks out good, and they have shot it and it also checked out, what would sending you another perfectly functioning scope do when it will be just the same? Nothing- That's why they are not replacing it- There rep is no bullshit, they don't win at the championships over and over because they build shit and don't stand behind it if it fails...

Gunsmiths are gunsmiths, scope builders are scope builders... The only thing the two products have in common is they both have screws... Be very careful when a gunsmith jumps to the conclusion of it being the scope, 'cuase he likely don't know dick about a scope...He'll tell you he does, but he doesn't, unless he's built scopes also...They are as similar as the moon and the sun, both planets, both in the same galaxy, after that, not even close to the same, how many gunsmith's are optics engineers? Exactly...

I don't know how much poi you have, and I'm not going to read through all of this, but I believe the NF rep has mentioned less than a 1/4 moa in the history of the company ever... Lets just for arguments sake say he exaggerated 2x over, ( he most likely DID NOT) as I know him personally, but lets pretend he misspoke, that would mean theoretically, 1/2 of a min of poi, if you have more than that, no way it's in the optic, and if you have that, still very very unlikely its in the optic, and if they checked it twice, simply no way it's the scope, they'd see it ( a blind monkey could with their equipment) and thed's fix it, send you a hat and an apology, and off you would go. That's how top tear companies do business- I don't care if guys on hear have an ax to grind with NF or not, but NF stands behind their product 100%, but with that, if it doesn't fail, they have to stand behind it too, or you will not find the issue in the rest of the shooting system, as they will be giving you false info...

Here's what I would say is for sure in my internet driven worthless opinion, but since that's what we do when we aren't shooting:

That scope is not pointed in the same place after the recoil of each shot, as in, it's moving, somehow, unless it's in the actual rifle...

Would be great to hear you found the issue, and all of us could be a little smarter for our next go around-

Best of luck
Click to expand...
Well, I believe you said you did not read the whole thread, so maybe you missed the part about scopes an rifles being swapped and the problem going with the scope. At least that's my memory of it.

But I do think your first four words nailed it for all of us.
 
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#78
300H&H said:
Gunsmiths are gunsmiths, scope builders are scope builders... The only thing the two products have in common is they both have screws... Be very careful when a gunsmith jumps to the conclusion of it being the scope, 'cuase he likely don't know dick about a scope...He'll tell you he does, but he doesn't, unless he's built scopes also...They are as similar as the moon and the sun, both planets, both in the same galaxy, after that, not even close to the same, how many gunsmith's are optics engineers? Exactly...
Click to expand...

This makes no sense.

-You don’t need to be a scope builder or an optical engineer to isolate the issue to the scope.

-A good gunsmith CAN tell you if it’s the scope by verifying the gun and mounts (the stuff he works on) aren’t the problem.

-The sun and moon aren’t planets.
 
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#79
300H&H said:
Don't know the issue but, here's some things to ponder-

NF could replace this scope with virtually no issue what so ever tot he company, multi million dollar companies don't worry about 1-2k here or there... But if it checks out good, and they have shot it and it also checked out, what would sending you another perfectly functioning scope do when it will be just the same? Nothing- That's why they are not replacing it- There rep is no bullshit, they don't win at the championships over and over because they build shit and don't stand behind it if it fails...

Gunsmiths are gunsmiths, scope builders are scope builders... The only thing the two products have in common is they both have screws... Be very careful when a gunsmith jumps to the conclusion of it being the scope, 'cuase he likely don't know dick about a scope...He'll tell you he does, but he doesn't, unless he's built scopes also...They are as similar as the moon and the sun, both planets, both in the same galaxy, after that, not even close to the same, how many gunsmith's are optics engineers? Exactly...

I don't know how much poi you have, and I'm not going to read through all of this, but I believe the NF rep has mentioned less than a 1/4 moa in the history of the company ever... Lets just for arguments sake say he exaggerated 2x over, ( he most likely DID NOT) as I know him personally, but lets pretend he misspoke, that would mean theoretically, 1/2 of a min of poi, if you have more than that, no way it's in the optic, and if you have that, still very very unlikely its in the optic, and if they checked it twice, simply no way it's the scope, they'd see it ( a blind monkey could with their equipment) and thed's fix it, send you a hat and an apology, and off you would go. That's how top tear companies do business- I don't care if guys on hear have an ax to grind with NF or not, but NF stands behind their product 100%, but with that, if it doesn't fail, they have to stand behind it too, or you will not find the issue in the rest of the shooting system, as they will be giving you false info...

Here's what I would say is for sure in my internet driven worthless opinion, but since that's what we do when we aren't shooting:

That scope is not pointed in the same place after the recoil of each shot, as in, it's moving, somehow, unless it's in the actual rifle...

Would be great to hear you found the issue, and all of us could be a little smarter for our next go around-

Best of luck
Click to expand...



Edit- I had to go back and read about our newest planets, the moon and sun.

 
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#80
Baron23 said:
Well, I believe you said you did not read the whole thread, so maybe you missed the part about scopes an rifles being swapped and the problem going with the scope. At least that's my memory of it.

But I do think your first four words nailed it for all of us.
Click to expand...

Yes. 3 rifles now.

I’m working with a precision rifle builder that guarantees sub 1/4MOA groups with their rifles and ammunition. They already shot it on my 300 WinMag and said “I couldn’t shoot that bad of a group if I tried” so now they are putting it on a proven shooter and testing it. FWIW they said they’ve never had to send an optic back to NF less than twice to get the issue resolved.

If they shoot a bunch of 1/4” groups I guess I’ll have to stfu and figure out why I’m suddenly shooting groups like Ray Charles having an active seizure.
 
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#82
Baron23 said:
Nope. Now this doesn't make me a social justice warrior nor a fan of BLM and it doesn't reduce my utter animosity toward antifa rioters. It doesn't lessen one iota my opposition to anything at all called "reparations" nor do I bear white guilt and will not tolerate being told that I have "privilege" by some moronic college student. I don't have a thin skin, my personal view is fuck triggers/safe spaces/micro-aggressions and all of the rest of the clap trap foisted on us by the radical left.

But neither do I have any truck with racial, nationality, or religious slurs. "My Nigga" is on the same plane as "My Wop", "My Kike", "My Spic", "My Chink", etc.

Maybe consider deleting it. You seem to be better that this
Click to expand...
Wow. Would you feel differently if you knew I was a minority that grew up in the ghetto where that verbiage was very common?

What’s comical is your use of the word bigot. It literally means intolerance towards other opinions and cultures. Right now it kind of sounds like you’re the one in tolerant of other opinions/culture. I have no intolerance, nor does me posting a meme that says “nigga” imply any ill will or negativity towards anyone...
 
#85
Baron23 said:
Nope. Now this doesn't make me a social justice warrior nor a fan of BLM and it doesn't reduce my utter animosity toward antifa rioters. It doesn't lessen one iota my opposition to anything at all called "reparations" nor do I bear white guilt and will not tolerate being told that I have "privilege" by some moronic college student. I don't have a thin skin, my personal view is fuck triggers warnings/safe spaces/micro-aggressions and all of the rest of the clap trap foisted on us by the radical left.

But neither do I have any truck with racial, nationality, or religious slurs. "My Nigga" is on the same plane as "My Wop", "My Kike", "My Spic", "My Chink", etc.

Maybe consider deleting it. You seem to be better that this
Click to expand...
Have you seen any of these races or religons call each other my wop my chink etc?

Blacks use my ****a as a greeting for each other. So.
 
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#89
TheGerman said:
So the real question is, did OP talk to Doug yet?

Or are we still shooting rounds through everyones guns that we know to see if the scope dances around or not?
Click to expand...
Yes. Doug is still working on it.

Until then I’m having it tested on 1/4moa guns by people who are great shooters.
 
#91
I hate to hear that about your NX8. I have one and love it so far, mounted on Boyd Precision Arms 6.5 PRC , Shoots groups from .276 to .390 consistently depending on my ability on a given day. Scope tracks fine and adjustments seem to be very true, mine is only a maximum of 20 power
 
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#93
IdahoSpud said:
Not sure I know what you mean by tall target test? I have put out a huge target at two and 300 m and the thing is all over the place.

Night force has repeatedly said it was not torqued to the proper settings allowing it to move in the rings AND on the base. That’s a ridiculous answer after having had so many people mount it using the proper tools to their specs of 25 for the ring/base screws and 68 for the bigger nut. After it came back the first time and they said that I made damn sure all the subsequent mounting procedures were to spec without a doubt.
Click to expand...
I once had a rifle that would throw first shot and then put 5 in one hole. Had at least 5-6 Master Gunsmiths in San Antonio tell me nothing wrong with Scope or mounts. I finally got P O ‘d took it off down to the Receiver. Found one screw in a base 1/2 turn loose. It tightened when fired and heated up.
 
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#94
I have a older style 2-10x32 and it has a bunch of parallax so it took a 5/8” rifle to 1.25” rifle at 100 yards. I had a pst2 before the NF, and thought I was upgrading. Should have left the thong alone.
 
#95
IdahoSpud said:
I purchased this optic over a year ago at a hole in the wall gun store after they first came out. Every other store in the area was out and this store not only had it but gave me a discount. Skeptical but I gladly took it.

For the past year + I have isolated the terrible accuracy problems I have been having to this optic.

I have put it on three of my rifles and they all produce the same results with the NX8.

I have put other optics on the same rifles and had normal good results. Even with cheap $400 scopes instead of the $2400 NX8.

I have had many very experienced shooter’s test it out including one of the accuracy testers at axial precision, and a PRS shooter from this site who won the last competition. Everyone has said the same thing. I couldn’t shoot this bad of a group if I tried.

I have Purchased and tried several different rings and had the same results. The optic has been re-mounted several dozen times including a bunch by a night force dealer using the exact same tools they use set to the same torque settings.

The optic has been back tonight for twice now, only to be sent back as “not defective.”

Night force blamed me, the other gunsmiths, and their own dealer not using proper mounting procedures as the issue. It’s not rocket science. Their dealer mounts hundreds of scopes a year without issue.

Today I took my suppressed Tikka T3 X chambered in .223 out after getting the NX8 back. Same shit as the past year. It really is as if the scope is moving despite everything having been done exactly right countless times. A lot of times I will get two impacts touching or nearly touching, and then one flyer several inches away. Sometimes I will even get a lucky sub MOA group, but the vast majority of the time the groups are between two and 6 inches.


Im not starting this thread to bash any companies or start a fight. I seriously don’t know what else to do at this point and it seems I have a $2400 paperweight.

Night force has said it’s fine twice now and there’s nothing left they can do. Advice?
Click to expand...

I have been hearing this about the NX8 more and more all the time
 
#97
6172crew! said:
I have a older style 2-10x32 and it has a bunch of parallax so it took a 5/8” rifle to 1.25” rifle at 100 yards. I had a pst2 before the NF, and thought I was upgrading. Should have left the thong alone.
Click to expand...
Your head position isn’t consistent.

I had one of them on a semi .223. Crazy accurate. You wouldn’t believe the long shots I made with that scope
 
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#98
CarlosDJackal said:
Are you getting the same results with a different shooter? Also, do you notice the reticle shifting when dry-firing?
Click to expand...
All in the OP..... No I haven’t noticed the reticle shifting. Yes several experienced shooters and multiple optics and rifles....

The only consistent trend I have noticed is getting a two touching Or nearly touching then one ridiculous flier. Which makes me think whatever is bad, wether it still is slipping in the rings or something internally loose, doesn’t shift all the time. I have had a few excellent groups. Then insanely wild groups. And everything in between. It’s just erratic....

NF did their “tap test” on rubber and noted no shift. The second time they mounted it and shot 2 three round groups that were excellent and said they didn’t feel the need to continue

deersniper said:
Your head position isn’t consistent.

I had one of them on a semi .223. Crazy accurate. You wouldn’t believe the long shots I made with that scope
Click to expand...
No parallax adjustment on it? Wouldn’t the parallax have to be fixed at something like 25/50 yards to cause that much POI shift at 100m, at the worst case scenario?
 
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