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Rifle Scopes Issue with NightForce nx8
- Thread starter IdahoSpud
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These are with the NX8 using the same factory load. The same load Seth shot at the PRS match for me. The rifle didn’t like it but the group was 2x as big for him. I changed nothing but the scope. Which once again was mounted by a NF dealer who I physically watched use a FAT torque wrench set to 25 in pounds for the ring screws and a 68 in pound torque for the cross bolts.
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I call BS. The fixed parallax would only cause that much issue at 100 yards if the shooter's form is shit.
Source: I can hold submoa with the even less forgiving NF 2.5-10x24. It takes reps to return to the same position.
I can't wait to hear the results from Doug for the OP. I like NF, but it will be kind of funny to watch them get blown up if they dropped the ball.
Fair enough. I guess being a night force dealer doesn’t automatically mean you are competent. however the guy I have been working with mounts tons of scopes a year, runs a shop focused on Percision rifle, and seems far more capable than the average person in Cabela’s.
No one’s had my scope for the past week. I just gave it to the Percision rifle builder the day before yesterday I believe. He said it will probably take a week before he gets a chance to shoot it enough.
Well I hope you understand my frustration. Wether it’s NF dropping the ball, or several smiths and myself mounting it wrong, this shit doesn’t add up. I want to vomit at thought of the money I’ve pissed away on whatever this issue is. Well over the cost of this NX8 just in ammo and associated costs. I could have literally bought it, thrown it in a dumpster, drove away, and still came out ahead of where I am now. Not counting trying to do my first load development going absolutely fucking mad wondering why with my OCD reloading procedures I might get a .4” group then suddenly have it be a 4” group on subsequent tests.Based on the targets above, something just ain’t right.
I swear I’m not retarded. I have tried to get talk to text to replicate “percision” but now it won’t. Apparently it’s a name because it also capitalized it? Lol.
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No matter the outcome I’ve learned some things. Firstly, NFs “bulletproof” reputation is over rated. I’ve received a handful of messages describing similar situations with them. I’ve heard first hand from dealers and reputable people about needing to send the same optic back multiple times drawing out the problem with crayons for NF to fix it. One dealer also said he’s seen multiple RMAs where the optic was obviously defective Sent off only to come back as “not defective” yet suddenly work. I’ve had NF delete every Instagram comment I’ve made talking about this issue. It seems to me the reason NF has such a great reputation might be based at least partly on shutting up the people that have negative things to say, and hiding issues when they can.
Flame on. Just my experience and opinion.
Mine was with a LaRue 6.5 Grendel UU, it was at best a 3 MOA rifle. Since it had the LaRue rep I thought it had to be my bench technique, the ammo, the scope, the rest, the bipod etc. etc.
After many months, hundreds of rounds and wasted trips to the range I asked a well known in the industry person (and friend) to shoot it, he used known good A-Max ammo from his own stash that was 1/2 MOA or better in his rifles. It shot 3 MOA as well, he said it was just a bad barrel send it back. I contacted LaRue and they did make it right. The delay in all that was my own fault in doubting myself and the rest of my gear, ammo and skill because it was a "name" brand known for quality.
It is disappointing to hear that Nightforce won't own up to what is clearly their issue.
After many months, hundreds of rounds and wasted trips to the range I asked a well known in the industry person (and friend) to shoot it, he used known good A-Max ammo from his own stash that was 1/2 MOA or better in his rifles. It shot 3 MOA as well, he said it was just a bad barrel send it back. I contacted LaRue and they did make it right. The delay in all that was my own fault in doubting myself and the rest of my gear, ammo and skill because it was a "name" brand known for quality.
It is disappointing to hear that Nightforce won't own up to what is clearly their issue.
Not really sure why I’m defending them, but I get it. After the past year of this I know it’s not completely impossible to get two 3 round groups in a row that perform, although it is rare . A customer bitches about their product so they take it in and test it and it seems to work fine. Ok... The part I am going to bitch about is me sending them everything I posted here, talking with Skott Mealer and explaining all this, and still having them basically say tough shit it’s not our product no refund.
Their email said “We want to assure you you have a top quality Optic and rings. When installed correctly it will perform great.”
Ok man. How many more times do I “properly install” this before it works great? Because if the shit is that finicky I might as well go stick with the $400 Aztec or the Tapco that outperformed the NF.
Their email said “We want to assure you you have a top quality Optic and rings. When installed correctly it will perform great.”
Ok man. How many more times do I “properly install” this before it works great? Because if the shit is that finicky I might as well go stick with the $400 Aztec or the Tapco that outperformed the NF.
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Did they really test it or was it a token effort though? Sadly with big companies the latter is the norm.
An example is "refurb" computers from nearly any manufacturer. Just because it passed the 30 seconds of bench testing they gave it doesn't mean it is good to go. I frequently see this with hard drives, the PC manufacturer or drive OEM will put out refurb drives that clearly show imminent failure within their SMART reporting but to them it is "OK" as it isn't "bad enough" for them to consider it failing. Your data and time is worth more than the $50 a new drive costs.
An example is "refurb" computers from nearly any manufacturer. Just because it passed the 30 seconds of bench testing they gave it doesn't mean it is good to go. I frequently see this with hard drives, the PC manufacturer or drive OEM will put out refurb drives that clearly show imminent failure within their SMART reporting but to them it is "OK" as it isn't "bad enough" for them to consider it failing. Your data and time is worth more than the $50 a new drive costs.
I believe they really did test it. They sent me videos of them shooting it on an accuracy international. One three round group and one for round group.
So, I get their position. However I am left in the same position of having a $2400 door stop.
This started with my 300 WinMag. Their first test was just tapping it on rubber and seeing if it held zero in a vise. I told them they needed to actually test it with recoil. So they did. It worked fine for one group each on their .338 and 6.5 SAUM. I just got it back and threw it on my new Tikka t3x chambered in .223 thinking maybe it'll preform on something with no recoil. Maybe if I have developed a flinch it will be diminished on a .223 with a can. This time I set my FAT wrench to 27/28 inch pounds after reading they can be a couple pounds off. Torqued the cross bolts to 68 and went a hair passed in case that was off too. Still shit groups.
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Not being negative, but I believe you’ve over tighten the rings. So basically you messed the optic up and are trying get new one. Sorry if I’m wrong but you keep repeating that you used 25lb on rings and 68lb on bolts and it’s sounding fishy to me. I’m probably completely wrong with my theory ha. Anyway, hope you get it figured out.
Maybe I missed it but it seems you have others mount the scope. Why? Why do you allow others to mount your scope? Why don’t you mount the scope yourself?
Second, how do you know the torque applied to the screws was what was claimed? Those cheap torque wrenches are shit. I always gently snug up the ring cap screws by hand while checking the parallax knob. You reach a point where tightening one screw doesn’t loosen the others. That’s where I stop. Going by feel is better, I think, than just mindlessly cranking on a torque wrench.
Second, how do you know the torque applied to the screws was what was claimed? Those cheap torque wrenches are shit. I always gently snug up the ring cap screws by hand while checking the parallax knob. You reach a point where tightening one screw doesn’t loosen the others. That’s where I stop. Going by feel is better, I think, than just mindlessly cranking on a torque wrench.
Maybe you could share the precision builder that guarantees sub 1/4 MOA with their rifle and ammunition?
15-25 inch lbs is fine on ring cap fasteners; 50-65 inch lbs is recommended on the ring-receiver bolts, assuming a 1/2 inch hex head fastener. My Nightforce has 20 inch lbs on the rings and 50 inch lbs on the x bolts. No issues.
I have been working with my contacts at NF. My understanding from the OP is that the scope was sent into NF twice. NF shot the scope and found it to to accurate, both times. It may be an issue of rings and mounting, however, I am awaiting more intel before this can be updated. As soon as I know more I will be in touch with the OP and I am sure he will follow up here.
American Precision Arms. The same company that makes "Fat Bastard" muzzle brakes.
Just looked at their site and while they do have a few rifles for sale that are advertised as 1/4" confirmed, there is nothing about any accuracy guarantee in regards to their gunsmith services nor any ammo for sale.
Ref the NF NX8. You haven't said anything about your rifle. How many rounds fired. If several thousand, barrell could be shot out. Just thinking. Good luck.
Believe me, the NX 8 is a GREAT scope! I own one and know quite a few other people that own them and love them!
The OP sent them the scope, they shot it and it shot great, what else can NF do?
That's A nice offer. OP...i hope you get this nightmare taken care of
Its extremely common for any optics manufacturer to get a returned scope with a non obvious issue (broken glass, grit on the reticle, turrets stuck, etc) and put it on their scope tracking contraption, check the tracking and call it good.
Most of this is due to them getting alot of warranty returns where the real issue is the person's rifle/base/lack of skill and them blaming the scope. The problem is that with alot of the other returns, this usually fixes nothing.
Had to send one of my optics to Leupold multiple times before anyone did anything with it.
From Fix-it-sticks site where they have collected a lot of torque specs for different manf
NIGHTFORCE
- Ring Screws: 25 in-lbs
- Crossbolts: 68 in-lbs
- Base & Direct Mount attachment screws: 25 in-lbs
- Zero Stop Screws: 4 in-lbs
- Turret Screws: 4 in-lbs
I’m disappointed, just read all of this expecting a resolution. I guess it’s still building. Definitely sounds like the optic is all it can be as the op has done a great job isolating the problem. Now if he could just get NF to also do a great job recreating the problem my guess is there wouldn’t be one...
I’m a total Noob but can’t you just grab a 223 bore sighting case toss it in your rifle kill the lights in your barn or hallway and zero it smack the shit out of the scope or shake it like mad for a few mins and check it again for zero if the scope shifted reset and start doing a 4 corner tracking test just at 25 yards or whatever you got?
Ok, guys, sorry for disappearing for a while. I left the scope with Axial Precision(now Allterra) for the past week or two. They called me and told me it's clearly still fucked up. They put it on a proven shooter that shot sub MOA groups just prior with a different optic, then mounted my Nx8 and they were at 3 inch groups. They do this for a living, and yes they guarantee their guns to shoot sub 1/4MOA with their hand loaded ammunition.
They also mentioned they did a tracking test which seemed to show it tracks fine, but it just wont hold zero.
I replied to Doug Aug 19 and haven't received a reply back.
As for mounting I believe I mentioned it in the OP. It has been mounted by many people including myself, using the exact brand or torque wrenches used by NF, set to the exact settings they told me to.
They also mentioned they did a tracking test which seemed to show it tracks fine, but it just wont hold zero.
I replied to Doug Aug 19 and haven't received a reply back.
As for mounting I believe I mentioned it in the OP. It has been mounted by many people including myself, using the exact brand or torque wrenches used by NF, set to the exact settings they told me to.
This is most likely the route I'm going.
Once again, this has cost me well over $2,000.00 just in ammunition/components/smith fees, over a year of not having it work and nonworking rifle set up, dozens and dozens of range trips, as well as the $2400 price tag of my useless optic.
I've already found the name of their registered agent, got the paperwork, and talked to Clearwater SO about serving them. I feel like they've left me no choice. I'm not going to keep playing this game until the end of time.
If anyone knows of a 3rd party that is qualified to take this thing apart and document the erector or whatever is wrong, I'd appreciate it.
I agree w others that defective products of all kinds make it to the field no matter the level of QA. The point is how does a company respond when such a event occurs and in this case NF seems to be falling WAY short.
Is Axial a NF dealer? Can they rep their findings directly w NF on your behalf?
What I find strange is that the scope will return to zero correctly when doing a tall target test but will not when shooting. Recoil, I suppose but....puzzling.
And I also agree that it ain’t the way you mounted it for s number of reasons incl that it’s really not hard to do and so many different experienced people remounted it but the problem persists.
Wonder what happened to Doug and his offer to help? August is vacation time for many. Perhaps he’s just out of pocket for the week.
Sorry to hear this is still dragging out.
I don’t understand what everyone’s deal is. The scope is clearly messed up. Nightforce is saying there isn’t anything wrong with it. Send it back until they fix it. Period.
What, people think it can’t be messed up because it’s a Nightforce???? Really? People say Leupold does this all the time, so what’s the difference .
I’ve had plenty of Nightforce scopes fail, so I’m not surprised. Good luck with your situation.
What, people think it can’t be messed up because it’s a Nightforce???? Really? People say Leupold does this all the time, so what’s the difference .
I’ve had plenty of Nightforce scopes fail, so I’m not surprised. Good luck with your situation.
I’d think of sending the scope back with documentation from the gunsmiths you’ve already used before starting litigation. I wouldn’t pay $1,000 to lawyers to start the multi-month/year process on a $2,000 scope.
Doug replied and is still working on it.
Not sure what you’re talking about. It’s $105 to file in small claims court and lawyers are strictly for bidden. At this point $105 isn’t shit compared to what I lost. Worst case scenario I lose another hundred bucks and they have to burn some company money to pay an employee to drive to Boise from Orofino. Guessing it would be settled in mediation but idk.
Not sure what you’re talking about. It’s $105 to file in small claims court and lawyers are strictly for bidden. At this point $105 isn’t shit compared to what I lost. Worst case scenario I lose another hundred bucks and they have to burn some company money to pay an employee to drive to Boise from Orofino. Guessing it would be settled in mediation but idk.
They can and will send a lawyer as their "representative".
I'd really like to see NF just take care of this and the BS you've been put through is concerning.
The $2000 in ammo is on you. I already told you what the the problem was, here and on the LRH shit. Don’t tell them who you are or that you’ve already had a run around with them. Just send it back and tell them exactly what is wrong with it maybe even with a letter from your gunsmith saying it won’t hold zero please fix it.
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