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M40 Build Guide
- Thread starter ncoutdoorsman
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Anyone looking for rings, eBay looks to have a passable set. 1" Redfield Rifle Scope Rings Low Old 4 Screw Style | eBay
rlm8541, Go with a new link, just like "MescaBug" and "tokiwartooth" did. I'm all for anything that makes this stuff easier to find, for reference and review purposes. Then, post here to let us know where and how to find it.
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Macca, Photos... photos help.
On another note, what did CRS say about their Gen.-2 stock, or are you going to let that slide? Pick-up a shovel, it's your turn to dig.
On another note, what did CRS say about their Gen.-2 stock, or are you going to let that slide? Pick-up a shovel, it's your turn to dig.
Ouch!
Ok,my thoughts thus far is if I can secure the 6 digit action I'll pony up & buy a CRS 1st gen stock.
I checked out my stock against reference pictures gleaned here from the hide & your suggestions vis a vis conversion from Numrich to gen 2 & it is achievable.
Except for two major obstacles;
Firstly the safety bump-you just can't add wood & the stock can't be relieved enough to include it.
Secondly,& forgive me that I don't know the correct term for it,is the bottom of the Monte Carlo cheek piece.On the Numrich stock the shadow line follows the angle of the stock,on a genuine & a CRS reproduction the shadow line is a tear drop shape.
The Numrich is a very good stock to build a reasonable facsimile though.
B.T.,can you pm me your email address & I'll forward you some pictures if you can post them for me please?
Ok,my thoughts thus far is if I can secure the 6 digit action I'll pony up & buy a CRS 1st gen stock.
I checked out my stock against reference pictures gleaned here from the hide & your suggestions vis a vis conversion from Numrich to gen 2 & it is achievable.
Except for two major obstacles;
Firstly the safety bump-you just can't add wood & the stock can't be relieved enough to include it.
Secondly,& forgive me that I don't know the correct term for it,is the bottom of the Monte Carlo cheek piece.On the Numrich stock the shadow line follows the angle of the stock,on a genuine & a CRS reproduction the shadow line is a tear drop shape.
The Numrich is a very good stock to build a reasonable facsimile though.
B.T.,can you pm me your email address & I'll forward you some pictures if you can post them for me please?
I intended those comments for stocks like the CRS and Sunnyhill profiles, which appear, to me, to be a Type-2 profile. The NUMRICH, I think, really lends itself towards the Type-1 profile.
NOTE: While we're at it, co-mingling the "Gen. (Generation)" and "Type" 'descriptions,' for the stocks, is just bothersome enough to compel me to comment. Redfield scopes are already differentiated, in their features by the descriptive Gen.-1 and Gen.-2. In actual use, if someone is posting that they are looking at/for a Gen.-1, they don't even have to use the words; scope, or Redfield. I and I think others, will, automatically, make that association. The stock and rifles I differentiate as Type-1 and Type-2 and I think that is the best descriptive. (It's already the M40, which is a 'model' term, so the stocks can't be a model-1 or a model-2.) I'm one of those... 'words,' to be truly effective, have to provide a context and should convey a recognizable meaning... 'types.'
This is where comments by members that have actual experience, in shaping these stocks, would be especially helpful... to those who are looking for some guidance.
I'll PM you later tonight and you can send me your photos. When I have time, I'll help you with photo posting. It's really not a big deal.
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Keep in mind friends....the stock issue only comes into play if you are trying to build an exact "replica" of a rifle as it arrived from Remington (early or later generation).
Ive seen two actual usmc M700 rifles with 2nd gen, satin scopes in the "1st gen." stocks that were extremely worn piece togethers from other rifles.
The stock is no different than any other part of the rifle.
If they had an early G1 stock that was in good serviceable condition later in the era and needed to replace a damaged one they would use it.
Much like mis matching scopes to other rifles that were previously serialized to other rifles. Throughout the war these rifles were extremely cannibalized.
So like I said.....regardless of which gen. stock you have. Your not going to be wrong on your build regardless of the configuration. Concentrate on the rest of the parts....ie. Correct base (depending on where in the era you are trying to replicate), Low 4 screw Redfiled rings, slab side safety, trigger (depending on where in the era you are trying to replicates..early double sere or later single), original mat finish bottom metal, right profile barrel, bolt shroud (depending on where in the era you are trying to replicate as well)....
I will be posting measurements along with pics in the next couple of days of my original to try and help with profiling your reproduction stocks.
Ive seen two actual usmc M700 rifles with 2nd gen, satin scopes in the "1st gen." stocks that were extremely worn piece togethers from other rifles.
The stock is no different than any other part of the rifle.
If they had an early G1 stock that was in good serviceable condition later in the era and needed to replace a damaged one they would use it.
Much like mis matching scopes to other rifles that were previously serialized to other rifles. Throughout the war these rifles were extremely cannibalized.
So like I said.....regardless of which gen. stock you have. Your not going to be wrong on your build regardless of the configuration. Concentrate on the rest of the parts....ie. Correct base (depending on where in the era you are trying to replicate), Low 4 screw Redfiled rings, slab side safety, trigger (depending on where in the era you are trying to replicates..early double sere or later single), original mat finish bottom metal, right profile barrel, bolt shroud (depending on where in the era you are trying to replicate as well)....
I will be posting measurements along with pics in the next couple of days of my original to try and help with profiling your reproduction stocks.
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Hi guys,
Just a clarification,I was wrong to say that only original stocks had a tear drop shaped shadow line.
After actually doing more investigation both the tear drop & parallel (to the butt stock) shadow lines appear to be used.
Why?
I don't know.
BT will hopefully put up some pictures comparing my unfinished Numrich stock & some pictures kindly forwarded to me by CRS.
These should show some of the differences between the two offerings.
Just a clarification,I was wrong to say that only original stocks had a tear drop shaped shadow line.
After actually doing more investigation both the tear drop & parallel (to the butt stock) shadow lines appear to be used.
Why?
I don't know.
BT will hopefully put up some pictures comparing my unfinished Numrich stock & some pictures kindly forwarded to me by CRS.
These should show some of the differences between the two offerings.
Need help,,,,measurements.
This year I have acquired 3 Protecto-Kaddy gun cases. 1 Brown and 2 Green. (Before folks tell me green is incorrect,,one of the Senich books DOES mention their use with the M40 and possibly later M40A1s)
The brown one is quite a bit larger then both green ones. To add,,a friend was a USMC sniper in Gulf War 1. He said the rifles they used were issued with black hard cases that look just like the Protecto-Kaddy cases but were made by Hoppies (the latches all have the Hoppies 9 logo). It IS mentioned (again Senich) that Hoppies did buy out Protecto-Kaddy in the 1970s. This black one,given to me by the mentioned former MC sniper is the same size as the 2 green P-K ones. These 3 all measure 46"x9.5"x3.5". The brown P-K measures 48"x11.5"x4.5".
So,my Q is this,,what is the correct size for the brown P-K cases AS ISSUED with the original M40 sniper rifles?
Had to edit,typo on the brown one,it is 48" not 49" .
This year I have acquired 3 Protecto-Kaddy gun cases. 1 Brown and 2 Green. (Before folks tell me green is incorrect,,one of the Senich books DOES mention their use with the M40 and possibly later M40A1s)
The brown one is quite a bit larger then both green ones. To add,,a friend was a USMC sniper in Gulf War 1. He said the rifles they used were issued with black hard cases that look just like the Protecto-Kaddy cases but were made by Hoppies (the latches all have the Hoppies 9 logo). It IS mentioned (again Senich) that Hoppies did buy out Protecto-Kaddy in the 1970s. This black one,given to me by the mentioned former MC sniper is the same size as the 2 green P-K ones. These 3 all measure 46"x9.5"x3.5". The brown P-K measures 48"x11.5"x4.5".
So,my Q is this,,what is the correct size for the brown P-K cases AS ISSUED with the original M40 sniper rifles?
Had to edit,typo on the brown one,it is 48" not 49" .
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Hey M1....I will get you those measurements....I can tell you that both of mine are the exact same size. My tan one is in much better condition than my green. The tan one is also stamped with the Protecto Badge emblem. The Green one is not. Both of these were pulled from MC inventory many years ago...I can tell you from personal experience that the green ones were used (at least in my platoon) until we replaced them with Pelicans in late 93' early 94' with our M40A1's. I Myself along with a couple other guys personally carried our green ones out of the armory and thru them in the dumpster when we got the new cases in.
I personally never saw a tan one that I can remember during this time frame. Doesnt mean that there went any out there with the A1's I just never saw them.
I personally never saw a tan one that I can remember during this time frame. Doesnt mean that there went any out there with the A1's I just never saw them.
D
Deleted member 10043
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Source: Small Arms Review October 2002 - The U.S. Marine Corps M40 Rifle http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2304
Sadly, Hoppes stopped selling these years ago. Anybody that wants a copy of the original magazine article send me an email address via PM. The link above is the latest archive on SAW site.
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I
Front swivel, machine screw into an eschuteon, rear simple wood screw swivel. Pretty sure I have a few around if pics are needed.
With regards to getting the correct case, I posted a nice big bright color picture at my local range, simply stating looking to buy, it worked not perfect but useable, it may work for others looking.
Front swivel, machine screw into an eschuteon, rear simple wood screw swivel. Pretty sure I have a few around if pics are needed.
With regards to getting the correct case, I posted a nice big bright color picture at my local range, simply stating looking to buy, it worked not perfect but useable, it may work for others looking.
Thanks rlm... Both my green ones DO have the Protecto-Kaddy shield and name on the fronts.Once you send me the measurments,if both my green ones are the correct sizes,then I'll be looking to trade one off for a brown one.It's been a while since I've posted pics here,I'll try to get one up showing all 4 cases mentioned in my post.1 Brown,2 green,1 black.
Gentlemen;
I direct your attention to the link below. No dog in this fight, just passing it on for informational purposes.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/firearms-sale/265438-m40a1-r700-correct-receivers.html
I direct your attention to the link below. No dog in this fight, just passing it on for informational purposes.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/firearms-sale/265438-m40a1-r700-correct-receivers.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/sniper-hide-gunsmithing/265275-clip-slotting-m700.html
Mine. One step closer......
Mine. One step closer......
Macca's CRS M40 TYPE-2 Stock Photos... 1 through 10 of 13
Macca, Sorry for the delay in posting these photos, for you. Cranked about 2,400 miles of driving here and there, this past week. The Numrich stock photos??
The CRS stock photos: 10 of 13
Macca, Sorry for the delay in posting these photos, for you. Cranked about 2,400 miles of driving here and there, this past week. The Numrich stock photos??
The CRS stock photos: 10 of 13
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Macca's CRS M40 TYPE-2 Stock Photos... 11, 12 and 13 of 13
The CRS stock photos: 11, 12 and 13 of 13
The CRS stock photos: 11, 12 and 13 of 13
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WAY TO GO Mossyrock !! I would definitely have gone with one of these, when starting my project, IF they'd been available, at that time.
Bolt Trash, that really looks good compared to the Numrich and others I have tried in the past.
mjh30, I've got a NUMRICH stock, but was impressed by these photos also- and, it should be impressive as all-get-out/shut-the-back-door at $300.00 a pop. Not sure if they have a Type-1 AND a Type-2, OR just a Type-2. Macca is digging and uncovering the details on this/these CRS stock offering(s.)
Macca will also be sending me photos of his/a NUMRICH stock and I'll post those for comparison.
I purchased a NUMRICH stock and had it sent to my gunsmith, to make sure that when threading the SHILEN barrel blank, that it wouldn't be set too far to the rear or, too far forward. He said the fit was as near to a perfect drop-in as you can get and that the barrel channel's 'free-float' was also near perfect.
Now, I'm looking for an outfit that can do the MIL-Spec. ZINC parkerizing, in the Allentown, PA area. Anyone have a recommendation??
Great advice, rlm8541. It's exactly these little details that can really matter... for instance; I was under the impression that the original bottom metal was "smooth, without any texture and was finished in a semi-gloss black." So, which is it? Matte or Semi-Gloss? Gets mighty confus'n, at times.
I'm really looking forward to seeing these measurements.
I purchased a stock from Numrich, and it has its high points and low points. Inletting? Spot on drop-in fit. Couldn't be any better. The contour of the forearm? Not so much. LOTS of wood to remove there, and I am still working on it. The curve of the pistol grip isn't quite right either, but I am not sure what, if anything, I can do about it.
Guys, remember that the Numrich is actually a Remington products from the mid-80's (700 Police rifles). Quite far from the M40. Its close, but no cigar.
Here it is mounted in one of my 7-digit Varmint Special. It is a very nice stock, I wont do anything to it. Being a Remington products, it is 120% drop in
Macca's NUMRICH Stock Offering... M40 Clones
More photos from my files and comments to follow.
Photos of Macca's NUMRICH stock offering:
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Photo of SH member "budiceale" .223 M40 clone using NUMRICH stock. (It was this photo posted by this member on another forum and his recommendation that brought me to this forum.) His gunsmith and stocker really pulled-off the Type-1 'profile,' using the NUMRICH offering. A person that is proficient in layout and in splicing wood will have no problems in replicating an accurate profile and adding/building a safety 'bump/hump.'
ORIGINAL M40 TYPE-1 (Side Profile):
Commence !!
More photos from my files and comments to follow.
Photos of Macca's NUMRICH stock offering:
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Photo of SH member "budiceale" .223 M40 clone using NUMRICH stock. (It was this photo posted by this member on another forum and his recommendation that brought me to this forum.) His gunsmith and stocker really pulled-off the Type-1 'profile,' using the NUMRICH offering. A person that is proficient in layout and in splicing wood will have no problems in replicating an accurate profile and adding/building a safety 'bump/hump.'
ORIGINAL M40 TYPE-1 (Side Profile):
Commence !!
The front swivel components, for the M40, were sourced from Remington's discontinued Model 725 offering. The swivel loop was changed from a ~3/4 inch to a 1-1/4 inch. See my Post 901/Pg.19 to get a better idea of the size components fit to the bottom of the stock for the front swivel. No doubt that the steel pieces fit into the bottom of the stock, for the front and rear swivels to shoulder against, were glued/epoxied in place.
Thanks for uploading my pics BT,much appreciated.
CRS have got back to me and said that the photo's they sent were for the type 2.
I've since replied with a picture of both stock types to see if they have that type or can do it.
I'll keep everyone posted on this.
I reprofiled my Numrich stock today to mimic the type 2.The forend needed reprofiling anyway & I removed the large countersink in the process thus alleviating the need for the washers.
The grip/wrist is about 90% right thus far.I'm not too sure about about relieving anymore wood though.I would like the grip to extend a bit further but that would mean removing a bit more of the underline of the butt.
CRS have got back to me and said that the photo's they sent were for the type 2.
I've since replied with a picture of both stock types to see if they have that type or can do it.
I'll keep everyone posted on this.
I reprofiled my Numrich stock today to mimic the type 2.The forend needed reprofiling anyway & I removed the large countersink in the process thus alleviating the need for the washers.
The grip/wrist is about 90% right thus far.I'm not too sure about about relieving anymore wood though.I would like the grip to extend a bit further but that would mean removing a bit more of the underline of the butt.
Hey Bolt_Trash....Sorry its taken me so long to get pics posted. I've recently deployed and between the prep,travel and shitty internet connection it's been a bit of a challenge.
I have close to 15 pics but the thread would only let me post 10 without starting a new thread....Ill post the last few as soon as I can internet connection permitting.
Here is the link to the thread.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...40-take-off-stock-measurements-pic-heavy.html
I have close to 15 pics but the thread would only let me post 10 without starting a new thread....Ill post the last few as soon as I can internet connection permitting.
Here is the link to the thread.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...40-take-off-stock-measurements-pic-heavy.html
rlm8541, I've already posted on your thread which is attended by my personal thanks, but by any measure, a significant contribution and aid to the 'clone' builder and M40 enthusiast. Considering how long ago these rifles were fabricated, your thread is like M700/M40 archeology- peeling back the layers to reveal a whole new set of details. Thanks again... BT
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Cowan's Auctions: The Midwest's Most Trusted Auction House / Antiques / Fine Art / Art Appraisals
Damn, just missed this auction by a few days. 2 M40 stocks sold for $105; not each, but for the pair! Lots of heavy use, but one of them still has its RVN green camouflage paint!!! Some really amazing history right there, congrats to the buyer who nabbed those!
Damn, just missed this auction by a few days. 2 M40 stocks sold for $105; not each, but for the pair! Lots of heavy use, but one of them still has its RVN green camouflage paint!!! Some really amazing history right there, congrats to the buyer who nabbed those!
Wow (flabbergasted).... If both are genuine, thats the steal of the century when it comes to M40 memorabilia.
Listed as M70 though...
Listed as M70 though...
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Yeah, figured they were mislabeled when I saw what appears to be a 16601 buttplate on the un-painted stock and looked at the stock's profile. With original stocks selling for $1,500+, these were definitely a steal!
Some in-progress pictures. Barrel install, clip-slotting, and action and barrel marking courtesy of Long Rifles, Inc. I am looking at this build as one that has been back to PWS for refit. It will have a second generation Redfield, refinished courtesy of Tokiwartooth.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
Nice machine work from other thread. I can't tell from the camera angle but the left vertical clip slot should be standing a little proud of the ejection port on the horizontal stock line. Is it too deep in the stock?
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh235/LoneWolfUSMC/100_1719.jpg
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The difference(s) lie on the right side of the receiver. The rear wall of the ejection port should be relieved (notched back,) a feature which allows the shooter's thumb easier access for loading cartridges.
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Mossyrock's 7.62 NATO barrel stamp...
Mossyrock, On another note, please share, some details on your 7.62 NATO barrel stamping... letter height? - length of stamp?? - distance from nearest edge of recoil lug???
Mossyrock, On another note, please share, some details on your 7.62 NATO barrel stamping... letter height? - length of stamp?? - distance from nearest edge of recoil lug???
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
I revisited the clip slot thread and the machinist does explain the difference. He really had no other choice and he explains why. The photos create an illusion that it is sitting too deep in the stock because I'm looking for that little hump on the vertical line and it is not there. The vertical line goes straight down to the horizontal line on the wood stock.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/sniper-hide-gunsmithing/265275-clip-slotting-m700.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/sniper-hide-gunsmithing/265275-clip-slotting-m700.html
Will do. Stand by........
Mossyrock, On another note, please share, some details on your 7.62 NATO barrel stamping... letter height? - length of stamp?? - distance from nearest edge of recoil lug???
Mossyrock's 7.62 NATO barrel stamp... AMENDED Part II The Findings, a/k/a The Measurements
NOTE: Amended below and in Post #1210 / Pg. 25 - Disregard dial caliper readings for height and length, in photos.
Length: 0.715 inches - Distance from nearest recoil lug edge: 0.177 inches - Height: 0.141 inches
Mossyrock,
Now, there's an incremental difference when measuring something (i.e., Letter/Number Height) over a 'curve.'
Methodology: If you take a piece of copy paper and lay it over the stamp and use a pencil to shade the paper, revealing the a number/letter (any with a well defined top and bottom termination) and then lay the paper flat...
Question: What does the number/letter measure now?
My question arises from the fact that if your vendor is using a pantograph engraver, the size letter/number he selects will dictate the actual appearance and outcome. There won't be any do-overs.
Mossyrock, your stamping/engraving looks 'righteous' to me. Thanks for sharing this detail with all of us.
NOTE: Amended below and in Post #1210 / Pg. 25 - Disregard dial caliper readings for height and length, in photos.
Length: 0.715 inches - Distance from nearest recoil lug edge: 0.177 inches - Height: 0.141 inches
Mossyrock,
Now, there's an incremental difference when measuring something (i.e., Letter/Number Height) over a 'curve.'
Methodology: If you take a piece of copy paper and lay it over the stamp and use a pencil to shade the paper, revealing the a number/letter (any with a well defined top and bottom termination) and then lay the paper flat...
Question: What does the number/letter measure now?
My question arises from the fact that if your vendor is using a pantograph engraver, the size letter/number he selects will dictate the actual appearance and outcome. There won't be any do-overs.
Mossyrock, your stamping/engraving looks 'righteous' to me. Thanks for sharing this detail with all of us.
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Culpeper, Did as you did and reread the Clip Slot thread and yes, it is fully explained. I hadn't done that before posting my reply. Thanks for refining your post with that 'Clip Slotting' link. Again we find another nuanced variation in the M40. All told, the clip slot and the notch in the forward bridge of the receiver were the only M40 features (except the 7.62 NATO chambering) that the Corps brought forward when they transitioned into the M40A1.
