Rifle Scopes MOA vs Mil.

[TheGerman]

Your dick?

See, now heres the REAL argument;

Do you want to tell a chick your dick is 11 inches, or 29.9 centimeters?

 

[Dthomas3523]

 

[schmi015]

I'll stick with MOA for it's smaller unit of measurement.

Can you shoot the difference between .1mil and 1/4 moa? Methinks not.

 

[Bender]

At normal hunting ranges the difference is inconsequential. Once it is consequential, either method can be used effectively. Finishing on the podium in 2000yd competition, I guess I must know a thing or two. And yes, if one considers themselves a "precision" shooter, I expect they reload their own ammo or I discount them.

Given how we must divide and cut our own throats on each factor of this sport and have no capacity to accept differences of opinion, it is no surprise to me how easily the liberals divide and take us down...what a silly argument.

I get it. You shoot 2000yards. You know everything already. Please enlighten us to why you need to compare MOA to inches and why reloading makes your arguments stronger?

@Lowlight, and many others shoot factory ammo 99% of the time. Why the hell would someone waste time reloading if they didn’t need or want to? How would that make them a worse shooter?

 

[QuickNDirty]

See, now heres the REAL argument;

Do you want to tell a chick your dick is 11 inches, or 29.9 centimeters?

Why not tell her your dick is 30 minutes at 1 yard?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

This isn't a proper MOA vs MIL thread without a wind calling comparison.

 

[TheGerman]

This isn't a proper MOA vs MIL thread without a wind calling comparison.

My dick defies the wind.

So there's that.

 

[AIAW]

Why not tell her your dick is 30 minutes at 1 yard?

You're going to need more cant in that taint I'm afraid.

 

[L2bravo]

Fuck me. A week or two back I asked about 6.5 vs 308. I am new to this end of the pool. I swear I asked this in fucking earnest. Shit am I sorry.

 

[Bender]

This isn't a proper MOA vs MIL thread without a wind calling comparison.

Wind formulas are a whole nuther ball of wax, but you already know that lol.

 

[TheGerman]

Fuck me. A week or two back I asked about 6.5 vs 308. I am new to this end of the pool. I swear I asked this in fucking earnest. Shit am I sorry.

So what did you go with? 308 or 6.5?

 

[Veer_G]

My dick defies the wind.

So there's that.

But is it ballistic?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...orkscrew-vaginas-the-sexual-battles-of-ducks/

 

[Bender]

Fuck me. A week or two back I asked about 6.5 vs 308. I am new to this end of the pool. I swear I asked this in fucking earnest. Shit am I sorry.

Meh, have thick skin, some humility, and a pitch-black sense of humor, and you’ll fit right in.

 

[TheGerman]

I get it. You shoot 2000yards. You know everything already. Please enlighten us to why you need to compare MOA to inches and why reloading makes your arguments stronger?

@Lowlight, and many others shoot factory ammo 99% of the time. Why the hell would someone waste time reloading if they didn’t need or want to? How would that make them a worse shooter?

I reload now, but back in my undefeated competition days, some gov contractor loaded the rounds for me. /shrug

 

[Bender]

I reload now, but back in my undefeated competition days, some gov contractor loaded the rounds for me. /shrug

You shot like shit and held no weight in an argument if you didn’t reload.

Or so I learned tonight.

Oh, and inches are important in MOA shooting.

 

[308pirate]

Fuck me. A week or two back I asked about 6.5 vs 308. I am new to this end of the pool. I swear I asked this in fucking earnest. Shit am I sorry.

Don't be sorry, we need the entertainment!

 

[308pirate]

Finishing on the podium in 2000yd competition, I guess I must know a thing or two. And yes, if one considers themselves a "precision" shooter, I expect they reload their own ammo or I discount them.

 

[spaniel]

You know what 11 inches at 780 yards looks like?

Yup. Shot an elk last year at 730 with a 338 Edge. Dealt strait MOA from the rangefinder through the scope. Dropped it in one shot. No need to replace gear because internet opinion had shifted to MIL. 780 yards is far beyond "reasonable" hunting range for any MOA/inch assumptions and anyone attempting such a shot damn well better understand exactly where their bullet will impact. MOA vs inches means nothing within 400 yards with reasonable rounds. If you are going to shoot far with whatever system you better understand it backwards and forwards. That is what is lost in this dick-measuring contest. Neck sizing? Yes, I use that for some rifles, but not others. A number of years ago that was the fad as was a 308 for everybody. Must be an idiot shooting High Master neck sizing my 284....

I'm disappointed that this site is starting to sound like every other internet forum where we can't have a discussion of opinions as the latest fad must overwhelm.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Yup. Shot an elk last year at 730 with a 338 Edge. Dealt strait MOA from the rangefinder through the scope. Dropped it in one shot. No need to replace gear because internet opinion had shifted to MIL. 780 yards is far beyond "reasonable" hunting range for any MOA/inch assumptions and anyone attempting such a shot damn well better understand exactly where their bullet will impact. MOA vs inches means nothing within 400 yards with reasonable rounds. If you are going to shoot far with whatever system you better understand it backwards and forwards. That is what is lost in this dick-measuring contest. Neck sizing? Yes, I use that for some rifles, but not others. A number of years ago that was the fad as was a 308 for everybody. Must be an idiot shooting High Master neck sizing my 284....

I'm disappointed that this site is starting to sound like every other internet forum where we can't have a discussion of opinions as the latest fad must overwhelm.

Bud, you starting using the negative language and telling people they were full of shit.

You got your ass handed to you by people that know more, now you want to say we can’t have a proper discussion.

 

[Bender]

Yup. Shot an elk last year at 730 with a 338 Edge. Dealt strait MOA from the rangefinder through the scope. Dropped it in one shot. No need to replace gear because internet opinion had shifted to MIL. 780 yards is far beyond "reasonable" hunting range for any MOA/inch assumptions and anyone attempting such a shot damn well better understand exactly where their bullet will impact. MOA vs inches means nothing within 400 yards with reasonable rounds. If you are going to shoot far with whatever system you better understand it backwards and forwards. That is what is lost in this dick-measuring contest. Neck sizing? Yes, I use that for some rifles, but not others. A number of years ago that was the fad as was a 308 for everybody. Must be an idiot shooting High Master neck sizing my 284....

I'm disappointed that this site is starting to sound like every other internet forum where we can't have a discussion of opinions as the latest fad must overwhelm.

You are the only one taking offense. I nor anyone told you to change or that it was inferior. It’s just different.

So take your highbrow highmaster to a mouthbreather forum where they might be impressed with your lack of comprehension.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Fuck me. A week or two back I asked about 6.5 vs 308. I am new to this end of the pool. I swear I asked this in fucking earnest. Shit am I sorry.

You didn't jump in the deap end of the pool @spaniel did.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Heaven forbid we consider a balanced opinion and comparison.. https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/07/20/mil-vs-moa-an-objective-comparison/

I guess this Bryan Litz doesn't know anything, we all know if you don't shoot MIL and a 6.5 Creedmoor you don't know what you're talking about....

I shoot MOA because I had over 20 years of experience with it before MIL became popular and it just works for me. I have no need to reprogram my brain. My shooting is primarily range, hunting, and F-Class. I'm not going to scope range an animal, I'm going to laser it or pass.

I quit caring about the opinion of "Precision" Rifle Series shooters when they explained to me that they shot too much to bother reloading....precision ammo...the shooting sports are all just games catering to their specific rules.

If I were a blank slate today I suppose I'd give MIL serious consideration.

Why should I have to change when what I am doing works for me? If you are used to estimating and working things in inches, are you really claiming there is no mental change to thinking in centimeters? Decades of efforts to change the US to metric beg to differ. Not claiming one is imperial and one is metric, but they are different, and the precedent holds. What have you accomplished that makes your opinion more valid than Litz's?

The fact that you think there is no change for someone very versed in doing things in MOA changing to MIL invalidates your opinion. As I said I'm open to both and if I was a blank slate I would be open to MIL...but you are simply claiming there is no penalty to changeover, which is complete and utter bullshit.

Brought this one on yourself.

 

[TheGerman]

Yup. Shot an elk last year at 730 with a 338 Edge. Dealt strait MOA from the rangefinder through the scope. Dropped it in one shot. No need to replace gear because internet opinion had shifted to MIL. 780 yards is far beyond "reasonable" hunting range for any MOA/inch assumptions and anyone attempting such a shot damn well better understand exactly where their bullet will impact. MOA vs inches means nothing within 400 yards with reasonable rounds. If you are going to shoot far with whatever system you better understand it backwards and forwards. That is what is lost in this dick-measuring contest. Neck sizing? Yes, I use that for some rifles, but not others. A number of years ago that was the fad as was a 308 for everybody. Must be an idiot shooting High Master neck sizing my 284....

I'm disappointed that this site is starting to sound like every other internet forum where we can't have a discussion of opinions as the latest fad must overwhelm.

The point went over your head.

The answer is, it doesn't matter if you know what exactly 11 inches at 780 is; why? Because its stupid to even do the math.

We need to stop looking at MOA or MIL in inches and CM. It doesn't matter; no one knows with any certainty what 11 inches or 29CM looks like at longer ranges. Just ask anyone who has had people spotting for them with spotting scopes with no reticle in them - its a best guess, at best. The real discussion is eliminating the math and eliminating the guesswork altogether. Use MOA or MIL; who cares. As long as the turrets match the reticle and you have a data card/ballistics program its all the same, with different 'sets' of numbers. Nothing would be more useless to me on the gun, than someone telling me I missed 11 inches low; instead, use the damn system infront of your eye that 100% directly translates to anyone using the same system.

Getting away from inch/cm altogether is the argument because that's why the MOA/MIL question keeps coming up.

 

[L2bravo]

So what did you go with? 308 or 6.5?

I have a 308. I’m staying there right now. If/when I branch out, it’ll most likely be a 6.5.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The point went over your head.

The answer is, it doesn't matter if you know what exactly 11 inches at 780 is; why? Because its stupid to even do the math.

We need to stop looking at MOA or MIL in inches and CM. It doesn't matter; no one knows with any certainty what 11 inches or 29CM looks like at longer ranges. Just ask anyone who has had people spotting for them with spotting scopes with no reticle in them - its a best guess, at best. The real discussion is eliminating the math and eliminating the guesswork altogether. Use MOA or MIL; who cares. As long as the turrets match the reticle and you have a data card/ballistics program its all the same, with different 'sets' of numbers. Nothing would be more useless to me on the gun, than someone telling me I missed 11 inches low; instead, use the damn system infront of your eye.

Getting away from inch/cm altogether is the argument.

I expect less logical shit from you.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I have a 308. I’m staying there right now. If/when I branch out, it’ll most likely be a 6.5.

6 dasher or get the fuck out

 

[Bender]

Know what you know

Know what you don’t know

Never confuse the two

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Fuck me. A week or two back I asked about 6.5 vs 308. I am new to this end of the pool. I swear I asked this in fucking earnest. Shit am I sorry.

Don't worry about it. It is new to you, we get this every week it seems. If you use the search function there are a bunch of monster threads on this.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The point went over your head.

The answer is, it doesn't matter if you know what exactly 11 inches at 780 is; why? Because its stupid to even do the math.

We need to stop looking at MOA or MIL in inches and CM. It doesn't matter; no one knows with any certainty what 11 inches or 29CM looks like at longer ranges. Just ask anyone who has had people spotting for them with spotting scopes with no reticle in them - its a best guess, at best. The real discussion is eliminating the math and eliminating the guesswork altogether. Use MOA or MIL; who cares. As long as the turrets match the reticle and you have a data card/ballistics program its all the same, with different 'sets' of numbers. Nothing would be more useless to me on the gun, than someone telling me I missed 11 inches low; instead, use the damn system infront of your eye that 100% directly translates to anyone using the same system.

Getting away from inch/cm altogether is the argument because that's why the MOA/MIL question keeps coming up.

“Ummm.......miss right. 12......err, 15 inches”

 

[2ndamendfan]

Yup. Shot an elk last year at 730 with a 338 Edge. Dealt strait MOA from the rangefinder through the scope. Dropped it in one shot. No need to replace gear because internet opinion had shifted to MIL. 780 yards is far beyond "reasonable" hunting range for any MOA/inch assumptions and anyone attempting such a shot damn well better understand exactly where their bullet will impact. MOA vs inches means nothing within 400 yards with reasonable rounds. If you are going to shoot far with whatever system you better understand it backwards and forwards. That is what is lost in this dick-measuring contest. Neck sizing? Yes, I use that for some rifles, but not others. A number of years ago that was the fad as was a 308 for everybody. Must be an idiot shooting High Master neck sizing my 284....

I'm disappointed that this site is starting to sound like every other internet forum where we can't have a discussion of opinions as the latest fad must overwhelm.

Would you quit using the term MOA/inches please.
When dialed your scope you did not dial up in inches. You dialed up in fractions of MOA.

 

[Veer_G]

ASA

Know what you know

Know what you don’t know

Never confuse the two

And if all else fails, buy a bracelet.

 

[TheGerman]

“Ummm.......miss right. 12......err, 15 inches”

You also have to remember that most of the time the guy giving me the call also ranged/figured out the range on target (most of the time; you split jobs depending on whats going on and where you are in the dialogue as to WTF is going on around you). So if hes a dildo and told me he had splash or the trace told him 12 inches off the right side of the guy, I wouldn't even know the fucking range to do MOA/MIL mind acrobatics for to adjust for 12 inches.

Obviously I'd have an idea or could lone wolf it and read the reticle and reengage, but again, WHY use inches/cm?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Wind formulas are a whole nuther ball of wax, but you already know that lol.

Just trying to get the pot properly stirred!

 

[Dthomas3523]

...... but again, WHY use inches/cm?

Cause ole boy ? there has been doing it 20 years and he placed high in some shit where he could have placed the exact same without thinking in inches.

 

[L2bravo]

6 dasher or get the fuck out

Ok I’ll bite. Explain.

 

[_Windrider_]

Fuck! Looks like I missed the party!!

 

[Veer_G]

 

[Bender]

If you don’t reload, you can’t post here. Pepaw said so.

 

[TheGerman]

View attachment 7005056

I see your subtensions and raise you a spin drift.

 

[AIAW]

Got mine ready to rock.

Yes, they actually published that... don't have to look too hard for the problem.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Ok I’ll bite. Explain.

6mm Dasher was the darling of the benchrest crowd for a good while until it was supplanted by the 6mmBRA. But the Dasher has made some small in roads into PRS.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Ok I’ll bite. Explain.

‘‘Twas the most popular cartridge among the top PRS/NRL shooters this year.

Mainly a joke since this thread went to shit. But I would suggest a 6mm cartridge over 6.5 unless you’re on a budget as far as barrels go.

 

[Subwrx300]

I've been shooting MOA systems for the last 10 years.... I stopped thinking in "inches" about 9.9 years ago.

But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so there's that. Coincidence?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I've been shooting MOA systems for the last 10 years.... I stopped thinking in "inches" about 9.9 years ago.

But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so there's that. Coincidence?

You didn’t finish “on the podium” at a 2k match or shoot grand whatever the fuck.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

Man, HK's never gonna live that down.

Next thread should be Liqui Moly VS Castrol, I'm in.

 

[Veer_G]

You didn’t finish “on the podium” at a 2k match or shoot grand whatever the fuck.

Does a lectern count?

 

[_Windrider_]

Does a lectern count?

Fucking love police academy.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

I've been shooting MOA systems for the last 10 years.... I stopped thinking in "inches" about 9.9 years ago.

But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so there's that. Coincidence?

Since you're shooting MOA, shouldn't you say you stopped thinking in "inches" 9 9/10th years ago? I mean, just to be consistent...

 

[Huskydriver]

I have a 308. I’m staying there right now. If/when I branch out, it’ll most likely be a 6.5.

When you do branch out, just don't be getting any ideas about shooting said 6.5 at a mile then telling people you do shoot at a mile. Tends to upset the moa for life shooters who believe that's only for a select few "chosen" cartridges so I have heard.....

 

[Bender]

Got mine ready to rock.

View attachment 7005057





Yes, they actually published that... don't have to look too hard for the problem.

I forgot all about this epic face palm