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Is this one of the ones with the parallax binding issue you mentioned, or is this one still functioning properly?Funny you mention that !!! NEVER in my life have i had scope tube damage. When i unmounted one of the 6-36,s i was shocked to see this..( see pic)
Mount rings were only done up to 15 inch pounds and it has still left a detectable impression!!!! My theory ( not fact) is the NEW series have thinner tubes!!! which if it is the case i am not at all impressed..
I think those A419 mounts are tighter and grippier than most others but it could just be tolerance stacking or in my head.I’ll say this, I had my 6-36 on an Area 419 mount torqued to 18in/lbs. When I switched to Hawkins rings the scope had major ring marks when removed. I was surprised as I had used that mount on other scopes with no issue. I was bummed out and blamed the mount because S&B is the greatest thing since sliced bread, now that I see this post I wonder.
Based on “ring marks”, seems @Islas82 is saying Hawkins caused the marks.I think those A419 mounts are tighter and grippier than most others but it could just be tolerance stacking or in my head.
I should get my Seekonk 0-75 calibrated…
Nope the 419 was the one that left the marks.Based on “ring marks”, seems @Islas82 is saying Hawkins caused the marks.
You know, a thought just popped into my head.The thing with torque wrenches is you don’t know what the actual torque is. You trust what the manufacturer told you. Certain industries use certified torque wrenches and those have to be tested regularly. Yet many people trust their $5000 scope to a cheap torque wrench. Then there are the threads. If you lube the threads then 15lbs will grip the scope harder than if you leave the threads dry.
I go by feel. Never dented a scope tube.
I got the call to send mine back to the Mothership today. After seeing your post I was a bit squeamish about what I might find after I took it out of the mount. My ring screws were torqued to the Spuhr-specified 25 in lbs, so much higher than yours. I was relieved when I removed it from the mount tonight. Not even a scratch or blemish (whew!).Funny you mention that !!! NEVER in my life have i had scope tube damage. When i unmounted one of the 6-36,s i was shocked to see this..( see pic)
Mount rings were only done up to 15 inch pounds and it has still left a detectable impression!!!! My theory ( not fact) is the NEW series have thinner tubes!!! which if it is the case i am not at all impressed..
I think so, because they are labeled as “US” versions. 5-20 and 3-20 USA little off topic but didn’t see it mentioned. Are the s&b ultra shorts etc effected by the fov throttling as well?
US stands for “Ultra Short” not US surely???I think so, because they are labeled as “US” versions. 5-20 and 3-20 US
Maybe for the Ultra Shorts. But on all the USA S&B 6-36 there is a “US” in their model names.US stands for “Ultra Short” not US surely???
Perhaps find a non-USA catalog and look for the model names. That might tell you something. I’m off to do that now!US stands for “Ultra Short” not US surely???
I agree, a close reading of the 2024 S&B Catalog suggests that only the 3-18 Meta, 6-36, and new 10-60 are FOV throttled by #FOVgate.The newer models seems to have a US FOV specified, follow the link to the SuB 2024 catalog.
Meta, 6-36 and 10-60 have US specific FOV listed underneath the specs on the last pages.
Kahles is part of Swarovski.Anyone know how Kahles 3-28 is able to beat the patent?
The tube is 36mm, the patent covers 30 to 35 mm if I remember correctly. It’s very clear that Kahles artificially restricted the FOV in the 525i’s even in the DLR. So maybe Swarovski wouldn’t even let Kahles use things that applied in the patent.Anyone know how Kahles 3-28 is able to beat the patent?
Then why does the new Theta have FoV?The tube is 36mm, the patent covers 30 to 35 mm if I remember correctly. It’s very clear that Kahles artificially restricted the FOV in the 525i’s even in the DLR. So maybe Swarovski wouldn’t even let Kahles use things that applied in the patent.
No clue, these are just my observations.Then why does the new Theta have FoV?
Probably because they're not a company based in the EU?Then why does the new Theta have FoV?
Armament is Canada based no? And it’s 36mm tube.Probably because they're not a company based in the EU?
Even though the Swarovski patent states a combination of high erector ratio, >22 degree apparent FOV, tube diameter between 30 and 35mm, along with a specific kind of reversal element in the ocular, that doesn't mean simply going to 36mm on the tube means you're free and clear to infringe on the other claims defined in the patent without paying licensing fees. We had that conversation in the s&b 6-36 thread and had input from those with plenty of experience in the patent process and they thought the patent without probably hold up to challenge in the US.
I think this is correct.So perhaps the 3-20/5-20 aren’t affected by that Swaro patent.
UPDATE: I sent it back to SB (Virginia) on Tuesday, week before last. They received it two days later on Thursday. I got a call on Monday of this week that it was going to ship out back to me that afternoon. I received it yesterday, so including shipping both ways it was a 15 day turnaround. I asked what they found. He said they disassembled it, checked that everything inside was to spec, re-assembled it carefully to spec, and everything worked fine, including mounting in a Spuhr mount torqued to 25 in lbs, since that is what I have. I asked if they tried to reproduce the problem before disassembly and he said no. I asked if it was possible that the original assembly process in the factory could have been "off" somewhere, and that simply taking it apart and re-assembling it carefully/correctly could have fixed a problem and he said, "Yes, it's certainly possible." I was a little disappointed they didn't test it first, witness the issue, then retest after the repair. Then I would know they identified a specific problem and corrected it. But as it was done, I was a little leary that I would get it back with the same problem since it was never identified.Well...that was a disaster. At the range, the parallax was stiff as hell and the focus was inconsistent. Once I got it focused, every single shot would cause the image to go blurry and I'd have to re-focus. Turning the parallax knob back and forth on the target at 100 yds, the ideal focus would be at ever-different points on the dial. I decided I had too much torque on the rings, causing the parallax to be in a bind. I had torqued the Spuhr rings to 25 in lbs as I always have on my other three SB 5-25s, also mounted in Spuhrs. Yes, I used Loctite and I know that increases the actual torque value, but it has never caused a problem before for me. Back home, I loosened the ring screws and experimented with different torque values on the screws. Even at barely-snug the parallax knob is still stiff and the new design has fairly sharp edges causing it to bite into your fingertips as you try and turn it. The Loctite is now dry, but I found any torque above 10 in lbs caused the parallax to drag, so that ideal focus came at different points on the dial as I went back and forth rotating it. The force required to rotate the parallax knob is also WAY higher than the three SB 5-25s and the NF 7-35 ATACR I currently have. Something is just not right here.
Weight savingsSince FoV is neutered in the US version, I think at best it would be about a side step to the Tangent. What are you looking to gain?
The TR2ID is about $1k more list price. About $525 actual.I like the TR2ID, don’t think I’d like the GR2ID because it’s busy on top, but I haven’t looked through one. Are you saying the TR2ID costs more? If so that’s weird because it’s basically the same thing, just less of it.
I looked at EO and I see what you are saying, and I do remember mine cost more, but it was because all TR2ID reticles are 2024 models with 2024 pricing (increased at beginning of year). I'm guessing they still have the GR2ID models from 2023 and before that don't have the price increase. Also, they've marked the GR2ID scopes down from list, but not the TR2ID, so there's another reason. I'm guessing that's because they anticipate the TR2ID being more popular. I wonder what the list price is for identical 2024 6x36s with the only difference being TR2ID and GR2ID reticles...I bet they have the same list price now. All guesses, and I'm wrong a lot.The TR2ID is about $1k more list price. About $525 actual.
The TR2ID is about $1k more list price. About $525 actual.
@Huskydriver @TheOE800 Honestly this would be for a field / team rifle. Probably only really used from x10-16 magnification.GR2ID isn’t optimized at 36x IMO.
Search my numerous posts in this thread, I have pictures of the GR2ID at various magnifications.@Huskydriver @TheOE800 Honestly this would be for a field / team rifle. Probably only really used from x10-16 magnification.