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Rifle Scopes New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56
- Thread starter Just Macca
- Start date
Is this one of the ones with the parallax binding issue you mentioned, or is this one still functioning properly?
That particular one was still OK.Butt all the scopes I have are to go back to S&B due to an issue they have identified
Most of these came to Aus as a batch.
Most of these came to Aus as a batch.
I’ll say this, I had my 6-36 on an Area 419 mount torqued to 18in/lbs. When I switched to Hawkins rings the scope had major ring marks when removed. I was surprised as I had used that mount on other scopes with no issue. I was bummed out and blamed the mount because S&B is the greatest thing since sliced bread, now that I see this post I wonder.
I think those A419 mounts are tighter and grippier than most others but it could just be tolerance stacking or in my head.
I should get my Seekonk 0-75 calibrated…
Info... I have been assured by S&B Germany that the tube wall thickness on the NEW series is the same as previous.. So my theory its "thinner" is 100% wrong..
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I would just like to make a very important note..
S&B Germany's support and action have been beyond reproach in regards to this matter.
As much as its a pain in the ass ( the issue) ...i am more than prepared to deal with it with them as their support has just been outstanding
Shit happens...... but how you deal with it matters a whole lot!!
S&B Germany's support and action have been beyond reproach in regards to this matter.
As much as its a pain in the ass ( the issue) ...i am more than prepared to deal with it with them as their support has just been outstanding
Shit happens...... but how you deal with it matters a whole lot!!
The thing with torque wrenches is you don’t know what the actual torque is. You trust what the manufacturer told you. Certain industries use certified torque wrenches and those have to be tested regularly. Yet many people trust their $5000 scope to a cheap torque wrench. Then there are the threads. If you lube the threads then 15lbs will grip the scope harder than if you leave the threads dry.
I go by feel. Never dented a scope tube.
I go by feel. Never dented a scope tube.
You know, a thought just popped into my head.
There is something to be said about buying a cheap scope, placing it in some cheap rings, and denting it on purpose.
Just to see how that amount of torque feels in the fingers. You’d get a decent feel of where that line lies. For that scope, anyways.
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Those cheap little L shaped torx wrenches are actually pretty good at limiting the amount of torque you can apply. They will start to flex before you fuck things up.
I got the call to send mine back to the Mothership today. After seeing your post I was a bit squeamish about what I might find after I took it out of the mount. My ring screws were torqued to the Spuhr-specified 25 in lbs, so much higher than yours. I was relieved when I removed it from the mount tonight. Not even a scratch or blemish (whew!).
As a precaution I am switching ALL my mounts to Era Tac.....love their mounts anyway!!
I strictly use the EraTac adjustable mounts. 4 w 0 issues..
A little off topic but didn’t see it mentioned. Are the s&b ultra shorts etc effected by the fov throttling as well?
I think so, because they are labeled as “US” versions. 5-20 and 3-20 US
Maybe for the Ultra Shorts. But on all the USA S&B 6-36 there is a “US” in their model names.
Perhaps find a non-USA catalog and look for the model names. That might tell you something. I’m off to do that now!
The newer models seems to have a US FOV specified, follow the link to the SuB 2024 catalog.
Meta, 6-36 and 10-60 have US specific FOV listed underneath the specs on the last pages.
Meta, 6-36 and 10-60 have US specific FOV listed underneath the specs on the last pages.
Ok, I searched for “Schmidt Bender price list” and I found this on this very thread. Got it from the link below.
www.snipershide.com
You can see S&B spells out “Ultra Short” in the model name for the 3-20/5-20, whereas in the 6-36 models it’s always denoted as the mysterious “US”.
So perhaps the 3-20/5-20 aren’t affected by that Swaro patent.
In fact, I suddenly dimly recall that the patent only covered 6x and higher erectors (so not the 5-20) that also had something else…like a special reverse optical thing in the eyepiece (and/or maybe also higher magnification than 20x)?
Anyway, some more info in this thread:
www.snipershide.com
Rifle Scopes - New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56
Or maybe the Austrians Hanz & Franz visited the factory and made ze Germans feel bad? Lol “YAH YAH WHAT A BABY LITTLE SCOPE, TUNNELS LIKE A GIRL!” I used to love Hans and Franz, that’s when SNL was still funny
www.snipershide.com
You can see S&B spells out “Ultra Short” in the model name for the 3-20/5-20, whereas in the 6-36 models it’s always denoted as the mysterious “US”.
So perhaps the 3-20/5-20 aren’t affected by that Swaro patent.
In fact, I suddenly dimly recall that the patent only covered 6x and higher erectors (so not the 5-20) that also had something else…like a special reverse optical thing in the eyepiece (and/or maybe also higher magnification than 20x)?
Anyway, some more info in this thread:
Rifle Scopes - Tangent Theta 7-35
What do you think of it as compared to the ZCO 8-40? Having seen both, the reticle in the Tangent is more usable at higher magnification versus the thickness of the 840.
www.snipershide.com
I agree, a close reading of the 2024 S&B Catalog suggests that only the 3-18 Meta, 6-36, and new 10-60 are FOV throttled by #FOVgate.
How I determined this is by looking at the disclaimers. S&B missed adding a * to the 10-60 FOV numbers, but still added the disclaimer to that page’s bottom (the USA FOV numbers in that disclaimer are closest to the 10-60, hence my guess).
Search the catalog for an asterisk * and you’ll see what I mean. Attached the catalog for posterity.
Why are we stuck with the US versions? Why can't we have what the Europeans and rest of the world get?
Kahles is part of Swarovski.
The tube is 36mm, the patent covers 30 to 35 mm if I remember correctly. It’s very clear that Kahles artificially restricted the FOV in the 525i’s even in the DLR. So maybe Swarovski wouldn’t even let Kahles use things that applied in the patent.
No clue, these are just my observations.Then why does the new Theta haveFoV?
If Kahles had the go from the start then why are the 525i and 318i so obviously throttled?
Probably because they're not a company based in the EU?Then why does the new Theta have
Re: tube diameter escaping patent…from a thread linked below:
Link:
www.snipershide.com
I have no professional opinion as I’m not a patent lawyer. @Kiba mentions in the quote that there was a discussion on this somewhere on this very thread (I think this thread)
Link:
Rifle Scopes - Tangent Theta 7-35
What do you think of it as compared to the ZCO 8-40? Having seen both, the reticle in the Tangent is more usable at higher magnification versus the thickness of the 840.
www.snipershide.com
I have no professional opinion as I’m not a patent lawyer. @Kiba mentions in the quote that there was a discussion on this somewhere on this very thread (I think this thread)
UPDATE: I sent it back to SB (Virginia) on Tuesday, week before last. They received it two days later on Thursday. I got a call on Monday of this week that it was going to ship out back to me that afternoon. I received it yesterday, so including shipping both ways it was a 15 day turnaround. I asked what they found. He said they disassembled it, checked that everything inside was to spec, re-assembled it carefully to spec, and everything worked fine, including mounting in a Spuhr mount torqued to 25 in lbs, since that is what I have. I asked if they tried to reproduce the problem before disassembly and he said no. I asked if it was possible that the original assembly process in the factory could have been "off" somewhere, and that simply taking it apart and re-assembling it carefully/correctly could have fixed a problem and he said, "Yes, it's certainly possible." I was a little disappointed they didn't test it first, witness the issue, then retest after the repair. Then I would know they identified a specific problem and corrected it. But as it was done, I was a little leary that I would get it back with the same problem since it was never identified.
I got it mounted last night, torqued the rings to 22 in lbs with Loctite, which would put it closer to the specified 25, and tested it this afternoon. It was definitely MUCH better, but I think I can still detect a "little" backlash in the parallax focus. It may be just me being overly-critical because I'm overly "focused" on the issue (pun intended), and the feel of the new design is much stiffer than the 5-25s I'm used to (as noted by virtually everyone who has handled a 6-36) . Before, when I was focusing on a 100 yd target, going from near to far, the target would come into focus when the dial was around 200. Going past that and then reversing the direction from far to near, it wouldn't come into focus until the dial was around 50. Once focused, firing a single round would immediately knock it waaaay out of focus. Before sending it in I tested the theory it was due to the rings and found that the problem went away when the ring screws were 10 in lbs or less, but returned at any torque above that.
Today, the 100 yd sharpest focus came in right at 100 as it should (although I've never worried about the number on the dial exactly matching the exact distance, as long as it was consistent every time). The new parallax knob on the 6-36 has a smooth-faced notch for each of the numbers (a notch for 50, 100, 200, etc). The rest of the dial is knurled except for these notches. The only thing I noticed was that going from near to far, the pointer next to the dial would be at the top edge of the notch for the number (100), and when going from far to near it would be at the bottom edge of that same notch. Once focused, rotating the dial back and forth the width of the notch for 100 (Maybe 3/16" of rotation? I'll have to go look at the width again) had little to no effect on the fine focus, so maybe just a little backlash there, or maybe all my others do the same and I've never noticed because they aren't as stiff to turn. The great news is that it focuses easily and no longer goes out of focus when the rifle is fired, and I was able to zero the scope at 100 with no issues whatsoever. I wish I had another 6-36 to compare it to - it may just be the nature of the beast, as I am told the new parallax knob is much stiffer than the older design on the 5-25s I'm so used to. In any case, it seems to be working fine at this time and I think the problem is resolved. I will know more when I get to take it out to distance this weekend (I only have a 100 yd range at the house).
I was very satisfied with how SB handled the problem and the turnaround time. I have some doubts as to whether or not they might have actually found the problem and just didn't disclose it while quietly fixing it, or if it was just a simple case of taking it apart and re-assembling carefully was all that it needed (I had a brand new Forster Ultra seating die in 300PRC recently that was exactly like that. The traveling inner sleeve was binding and would not fully extend when released after being compressed. I took it apart, didn't find anything wrong, re-assembled it and it has been perfectly fine now for 300 rounds loaded).
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What is the consensus on these in the US? Specifically looking at the DT II+ 6-36 with a GR2ID or TR2ID. I really like the TR2ID, but leaning towards the GR2ID because of the $525 difference. I am currently running a TT525P with Gen3xr
I like the TR2ID, don’t think I’d like the GR2ID because it’s busy on top, but I haven’t looked through one. Are you saying the TR2ID costs more? If so that’s weird because it’s basically the same thing, just less of it.
Since FoV is neutered in the US version, I think at best it would be about a side step to the Tangent. What are you looking to gain?
I looked at EO and I see what you are saying, and I do remember mine cost more, but it was because all TR2ID reticles are 2024 models with 2024 pricing (increased at beginning of year). I'm guessing they still have the GR2ID models from 2023 and before that don't have the price increase. Also, they've marked the GR2ID scopes down from list, but not the TR2ID, so there's another reason. I'm guessing that's because they anticipate the TR2ID being more popular. I wonder what the list price is for identical 2024 6x36s with the only difference being TR2ID and GR2ID reticles...I bet they have the same list price now. All guesses, and I'm wrong a lot.
For me, I just couldn't get over the GR2ID. I have a Tremor 3 that is so busy on top of the horizontal that it drives me nuts trying to spot misses. The GR2ID looks worse to me in the drawings. The reason I didn't buy a 6x36 for so long is that I just couldn't stand either of the two reticles. When the TR2ID came out, I was on it like a duck on a June Bug. Pre-ordered and got one of the first ones delivered.
@Huskydriver @TheOE800 Honestly this would be for a field / team rifle. Probably only really used from x10-16 magnification.
Search my numerous posts in this thread, I have pictures of the GR2ID at various magnifications.
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