I’d like to know why a Euro spec 6-36 has 17.74% more FOV than the US spec and then I’d like a 17.74% refund.
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Some 3-18x hunting scope that someone mentioned above also has differing US/Euro FOV number as well.Took a look at S&B website at the newer/updated models, 6-36, 5-20, 5-25 and 10-60.
Only the 6-36 and 10-60 has different FOV numbers specified for the US models, these are completely new designs compared to the other two. Seems like they are designing US specific models of the new scopes
Again, really curios as to why..
Producing two different models of the same scope must be resource demanding and again, makes no sense..
Like asked above, how do they technically alter the FOV on an otherwise identical scope?
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This lol. I'd be up in arms. Considering we're paying the same shit for something neutered. I'm trying to get Jerry on the phone to see what's up.I’d like to know why a Euro spec 6-36 has 17.74% more FOV than the US spec and then I’d like a 17.74% refund.
Make it a 17.76% refund. This is America after all!I’d like to know why a Euro spec 6-36 has 17.74% more FOV than the US spec and then I’d like a 17.74% refund.
Make it a 17.76% refund. This is America after all!
Possibly a different eyepiece? Maybe they stole the design from USA and are worried about US Patent laws Seriously though, it will be interesting to find out what the official word is on why and how so enough speculating, hopefully we can get some real answers on this soon.Like asked above, how do they technically alter the FOV on an otherwise identical scope?
Not only that but did you buy before the big price drop a few weeks ago, even worse for them.I’d like to know why a Euro spec 6-36 has 17.74% more FOV than the US spec and then I’d like a 17.74% refund.
Daddy didn’t raise no fool.Not only that but did you buy before the big price drop a few weeks ago, even worse for them.
#FOVGATE
Has to be something weird at play here.FOV is determined by 2 factors, assuming the image is always in focus:
height of the sensor
and focal length.
per this trig formula:
AFOV = 2 * arctan (height of sensor / 2*focal length) ... yielding a number in degrees or miliradians. Run angle thru trig using 100m or 100yds to find the resulting image dimension. This number is unit-less (not sensistive to metrics vs imperial)
Is the lenght of the US scope different than ROW? Is the eye lens different on the US scope vs ROW?
Additionally, does the US DoD have some F'ed up definition of FOV? Maybe they - US DoD - using some different math function to calculate?
This is very simple optical math - and no way is S&B messing this calculation up... no way could be designing optical systems for 75yrs...
I’m confused as to why no one can convert meters to feet?
i believe it's (MOA/SFP)*FOVWhat's a meter?
Well you see it’s only us guys from Europe can see that well… Everybody else is kind of hosed…I’d like to know why a Euro spec 6-36 has 17.74% more FOV than the US spec and then I’d like a 17.74% refund.
This just in (Babylon Bee Style):This just in:
Due to Brexit punishing the British Pound, Accuracy International has decided to import only Savage-based AI chassis rifles into the U.S. Sources report that the retail price will stay the same.
Ok, just a little parody. Obviously. But ha!
To get FOV measured in meters @ 100m convert the meter value to feet and divide by 1.093 to get feet at 100ydsI’m confused as to why no one can convert meters to feet?
I’m confused as to why no one can convert meters to feet?
I would too, I'll PM you my address and you can ship me your Aussie 6-36x56 and I'll compare to @GBMaryland 's copy and we'll let you know, but don't be surprised if the USA copy is the one shipped back to youWould be VERY curious to put one of our Aussie/EU 6-36,s up against the "US" version and compare!!
Perhaps the narrower FOV for the US market isn't actually a scope issue, but rather an end user issue-- because S&B is aware that here in the USA we shooters are all a bunch of narrow minded, poorly educated neanderthals with myopic viewpoints.
Imagine the horror of having a European model 6-36 with the wider FOV and while lining up on the target you catch a glance at a discarded Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light can sitting on the berm to the far left of the target, whereas that offensive can would simply not be visible through the US market scope because of the narrower FOV.
S&B being an erudite and sophisticated German company understands the needs and sensitivities of their US customers and doesn't want to risk the wider European spec FOV exposing US customers to something beyond their narrow comfort zone (and then have to deal with the inevitable angry phone calls about missed shots and ruined range days)-- so they have reduced the FOV of their US market optics accordingly.
HAHAHAHAHAHburning scopes
WAAHAHAHAHAHAHOLM (Optics Lives Matter) founder DLO
Not sure that is the case as @wooferocau has mentioned his European FOV 6-36x56 bests his TT in edge to edge clarity IIRC...The only thing that makes sense to me is that the American version of this scope uses what some manufacturers refer to as a "field stop" in the objective bell. A field stop is a flat metal donut used to eliminate the outer edges of an image because there is a fall-off in image quality (chromatic aberration, resolution, etc). This is done to prevent criticism of image quality out near the edges of the field of view, but comes at the expense of a narrower field of view. When we speak of "tunneling", it's usually because a field stop is edging into view. Since this is a premium product, S&B probably wants only the highest image quality shown in the US. Unfortunately, they misunderstand how much we also value field of view. It is impossible to have it both ways without signficantly increasing the price of the scope.
Yeah, but it is always there and noticable from 20 upwards, even when I am on axis. It gets better in the center but it never goes away with mine.In my brief testing mine has no more than a Tangent; both I can induce CA with bad/off-axis eye position.
Yep..Not sure that is the case as @wooferocau has mentioned his European FOV 6-36x56 bests his TT in edge to edge clarity IIRC...
That was of my own making, I don't even know what ChatGPT is other than knowing it is some kind of AI driven messaging thingy that has been programmed to give a Marxist response.HAHAHAHAHAH
WAAHAHAHAHAHAH
I don’t think that awesome parody was ChatGPT-written and strongly prefer to believe that you created it of whole cloth.
Pretty fantastic!
Well, I do know that all the German ones ship with a copy of the German national anthem….I would too, I'll PM you my address and you can ship me your Aussie 6-36x56 and I'll compare to @GBMaryland 's copy and we'll let you know, but don't be surprised if the USA copy is the one shipped back to you
In all seriousness, I used to buy Schmidt scopes from Optics-trade when prices were going crazy before the price drop around 2016, but I thought I heard rumors that Schmidt put a kabush on this a few years back and won't allow scopes to be sold to the USA from European dealers, why is that?
The only thing that makes sense to me is that the American version of this scope uses what some manufacturers refer to as a "field stop" in the objective bell. A field stop is a flat metal donut used to eliminate the outer edges of an image because there is a fall-off in image quality (chromatic aberration, resolution, etc). This is done to prevent criticism of image quality out near the edges of the field of view, but comes at the expense of a narrower field of view. When we speak of "tunneling", it's usually because a field stop is edging into view. Since this is a premium product, S&B probably wants only the highest image quality shown in the US. Unfortunately, they misunderstand how much we also value field of view. It is impossible to have it both ways without signficantly increasing the price of the scope.
I have deleted my (misplaced) parody of S&B as @koshkin has discovered that the likely culprit of #FOVgate is Swarovski.Perhaps the narrower FOV for the US market isn't actually a scope issue, but rather an end user issue-- because S&B is aware that here in the USA we shooters are all a bunch of narrow minded, poorly educated neanderthals with myopic viewpoints.
Imagine the horror of having a European model 6-36 with the wider FOV and while lining up on the target you catch a glance at a discarded Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light can sitting on the berm to the far left of the target, whereas that offensive can would simply not be visible through the US market scope because of the narrower FOV.
S&B being an erudite and sophisticated German company understands the needs and sensitivities of their US customers and doesn't want to risk the wider European spec FOV exposing US customers to something beyond their narrow comfort zone (and then have to deal with the inevitable angry phone calls about missed shots and ruined range days)-- so they have reduced the FOV of their US market optics accordingly.
Maybe it's just something as simple as advertising calculated theoretical FOV vs actual observed FOV because of different advertising requirements for the US vs euro/international markets... But it's still weird and doesn't make good financial or inventory sense that they would be making 2 versions of every scope; but then again, Aussie customers get different anti tamper battery caps on their S&B scopes because there's a law down under that says anything with a coin type battery has to meet several safety requirements to keep kids from eating them. (I know they feed kids marmite down there, but feeding them 2032 batteries is pretty ridiculous.)
I don't see any other European scope manufacturers listing different/smaller FOV numbers for their US market scopes.
Because base 10 units of measure are confusing, that's why. Here in the USA we like using easy to comprehend comparative patriotic measurements like "the FOV on this scope is 1/643rd Rhode Islands wide at a distance of 31 Walmart shopping carts away."
It's not just a unit conversion issue, the 3-18 x 42 specs list the field of view in degrees, and it's narrower for the US spec. That could mean the scopes are the same but a different definition or method is being used to determine the 2 FOVs, or there are 2 different scopes with a real physical/optical difference between the international and US models.
Has anyone called S&B yet to ask what the deal is? Maybe the narrower FOV is a new US law requirement to ensure Epstein's client list remains just out of view...
Really want to hear back from Ilya on his findings.
First, you see, that’s TRUE for all of you…. Except for me… who’s actually an übermensch… and the true reason as to why I can use either scope without a penalty.Unlike European customers, we USA customers that never evolved past the pleistocene epoch retain our characteristic larger, prominent sloping australopithecine brows which protrude much further forward from our eyes, requiring the US market scopes be fitted with a smaller diameter ocular housing and lens to clear our skulls, which reduces the field of view.
Bahahahaaha…. You’re not Russian and I’m half German Jew!I see your game and I won’t play it.
I have no idea what they were thinking if they purposely neutered the scope. They had basically the king of optics right there with those EU FOV numbers.On "Edge to Edge" clarity..... I have 4 samples here and they are all superb....so I don't think S&B are trying ti "Hide" anything in regards to outer edge clarity..
Still wondering why the US version has a lower FOV.
My theory on this is that the larger FOV has some optical degradation around the edges, S&B does not want their glass quality questioned by the US market and so have limited the FOV.
You can actually see that the FOV measurement in degrees is smaller, 4.2 VS 3.56 so there is a technical difference.
This is just my opinion but there is no other differences listed in the specs.
Yeah I bet you’re correct. That’s a nearly 10% loss of FOV. I don’t like either option honestly. Otherwise I’d bet it’s a pretty badass scope.
Or it’s a typo? Hopefully someone from Schmidt can get a clear answer.
it may not exist at all. I have no idea why Schmidt didnt explain it at SHOT.Wait . . . so this issue was discovered in March of 2022, and we still don't know why?
We’ve been waiting for you to issue forth, man smhWait . . . so this issue was discovered in March of 2022, and we still don't know why?
I am going to do a livestream tonight at 8PM Mountain and one of the topics I want to cover is the S&B FOV issue.
For what it is worth the FOV on the US version is not narrow. It is just not as wide as in the rest of the world. The FOV is about the same as ZCO on the same configuration and I am beginning to wonder if that is the case for the same reason.
The S&B scope I have here is an exceptionally nice design and I do not think it is S&B's fault that they are forced to throttle the FOV for the US.
I am going to make some educated guesses in the livestream tonight. I'll keep digging in the meantime. If my guesses are incorrect, I will certainly issues a retraction.
ILya
The S&B scope I have here is an exceptionally nice design and I do not think it is S&B's fault that they are forced to throttle the FOV for the US.
His theory is the same as yours. Field stop as a result of Swarovski filing a patent on a specification (blatant anticompetitive maneuver)I'm interested to see what Ilya thinks, but my theory remains the presence of a field stop in the US model. I'd love to hear another theory from anyone else, though. Historically field stops are used to hide lower quality images found on the edges (this is in no way an accusation that this is what S&B is doing), but maybe S&B has another good reason for doing so. Regardless, I know of no other way to reduce FOV without a signifcant optical re-design that neither the US or Euro 6-36x appears to have. Other than FOV, they appear identical.