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Rifle Scopes Official Zero Compromise Optic News & Updates
- Thread starter gebhardt02
- Start date
All this melodramatic horseshit is draining.
I have strong feeling that if ZCO offered @HTI-416 a reach around he'd complain about it.
I have strong feeling that if ZCO offered @HTI-416 a reach around he'd complain about it.
This thread like many others really becomes pretty ridiculous when people start name calling and making assumptions about what others have done.
HTI-416 bought a 416 Barrett from my shop and then purchased an 8-40 ZCO in a Spuhr mount from us. We mounted up the 8-40 ZCO in the Spuhr mount per the proper instructions at the time. Those instructions have since changed. Obviously there were some issues that people were experiencing to warrant the change in how to mount a ZCO in a Spuhr mount. HTI-416 spent a considerable amount of money on ammo and ultimately found that his scope was having issues. That sucks. There is no other way to put it, that just plain sucks.
ZCO took his scope in and inspected it. They found there was an issue(s) and offered to replace it. The customer was told the replacement scope was put through the wringer to make sure it was working properly. I personally had a conversation with Jeff at ZCO about the replacement scope. Nick Gebhardt tested that scope after it was returned and said there were no issues with it. I have been friends with Nick for years, we have shot matches together, he has given me no reason to doubt his word.
HTI-416 has since purchased a NF scope and Spuhr mount from another source. I'm not sure who mounted the new scope or the mount to his rifle, but he says he is not having the same issues he was with the first optic. I have not heard of any issues with his rifle. I also did not hear from him during this whole process until it was time for a refund. He went straight to ZCO to work things out with his scope. HTI-416 has sent me part of a message between him and another hide member who claims to be having issues with a ZCO and has subsequently replaced his ZCO with another optic and claims the issues he was experiencing are gone.
All I can do here is speak out of experience. At my shop, we carry Nightforce, Tangent Theta, Swarovski, Kahles, Vortex, (obviously) ZCO and other optics brands. I've been shooting for a bit and have seen various optics fail, many in PRS matches. Ultimately, these things are put together by people and at some point mistakes are made in even the most sound products that induce failures. Whether it was in assembly or in faulty parts. Obviously, most high end firearms and accessory dealers do not want to deal in products that are faulty. Another big thing we look at is how a company deals with issues when those issues arise.
If I could say one thing, if you are having an issue with a product you purchased from a vendor, please let them know. If you work directly with the manufacturer to get an item inspected, warrantied, repaired, or replaced make sure your dealer is aware of the issue you had and how it was or has been taken care of. If we don't hear back about issues the usual assumption is that things are going just fine.
We have sold a number of ZCO scopes at our shop over the years. I had one customer early on (years ago) have an issue with a lens fogging up. ZCO addressed it immediately. The customer was happy and has since purchased additional ZCO scopes. Most customers who contact us after getting a ZCO scope, call us to say how great it is and often times are calling to purchase a second one. I had one customer who called me up last week. He needed a rifle for a hunt a couple weeks ago. We sent him a rifle chambered in 300 PRC and a 5-27 ZCO mounted in a Spuhr mount. In the phone call I had with him last week, he mentioned how much he loved the ZCO and how his daughter was able to take her first buck with the rifle/optic set up we had sent him. These are the typical conversations my shop has with customers we sell ZCO scopes to.
Maybe someone from CS Tactical or Mile High can jump in and let us know what they see with their customers when it comes to feedback on ZCO products. When someone claims they had 5 of 6 ZCO optics fail, I think of my experience as a dealer for ZCO the past few years and think how in the world could that happen to one person. We've sold a pretty significant number of ZCO's over the years and prior to finding out about the issue HTI-416 had with his optic, we had a grand total of one other person have an issue that was reported to us. Someone having issues with 5 out of 6 scopes just seems nearly impossible.
Anyways, I hope this thread can get back on track. If people have an issue arise, they should be able to post about it here. We should welcome hearing about possible issues. Those of us on here should be asking questions when people have issues and try to help others problem shoot their issues. Likewise, those having success with their optics should be posting about them here.
HTI-416 bought a 416 Barrett from my shop and then purchased an 8-40 ZCO in a Spuhr mount from us. We mounted up the 8-40 ZCO in the Spuhr mount per the proper instructions at the time. Those instructions have since changed. Obviously there were some issues that people were experiencing to warrant the change in how to mount a ZCO in a Spuhr mount. HTI-416 spent a considerable amount of money on ammo and ultimately found that his scope was having issues. That sucks. There is no other way to put it, that just plain sucks.
ZCO took his scope in and inspected it. They found there was an issue(s) and offered to replace it. The customer was told the replacement scope was put through the wringer to make sure it was working properly. I personally had a conversation with Jeff at ZCO about the replacement scope. Nick Gebhardt tested that scope after it was returned and said there were no issues with it. I have been friends with Nick for years, we have shot matches together, he has given me no reason to doubt his word.
HTI-416 has since purchased a NF scope and Spuhr mount from another source. I'm not sure who mounted the new scope or the mount to his rifle, but he says he is not having the same issues he was with the first optic. I have not heard of any issues with his rifle. I also did not hear from him during this whole process until it was time for a refund. He went straight to ZCO to work things out with his scope. HTI-416 has sent me part of a message between him and another hide member who claims to be having issues with a ZCO and has subsequently replaced his ZCO with another optic and claims the issues he was experiencing are gone.
All I can do here is speak out of experience. At my shop, we carry Nightforce, Tangent Theta, Swarovski, Kahles, Vortex, (obviously) ZCO and other optics brands. I've been shooting for a bit and have seen various optics fail, many in PRS matches. Ultimately, these things are put together by people and at some point mistakes are made in even the most sound products that induce failures. Whether it was in assembly or in faulty parts. Obviously, most high end firearms and accessory dealers do not want to deal in products that are faulty. Another big thing we look at is how a company deals with issues when those issues arise.
If I could say one thing, if you are having an issue with a product you purchased from a vendor, please let them know. If you work directly with the manufacturer to get an item inspected, warrantied, repaired, or replaced make sure your dealer is aware of the issue you had and how it was or has been taken care of. If we don't hear back about issues the usual assumption is that things are going just fine.
We have sold a number of ZCO scopes at our shop over the years. I had one customer early on (years ago) have an issue with a lens fogging up. ZCO addressed it immediately. The customer was happy and has since purchased additional ZCO scopes. Most customers who contact us after getting a ZCO scope, call us to say how great it is and often times are calling to purchase a second one. I had one customer who called me up last week. He needed a rifle for a hunt a couple weeks ago. We sent him a rifle chambered in 300 PRC and a 5-27 ZCO mounted in a Spuhr mount. In the phone call I had with him last week, he mentioned how much he loved the ZCO and how his daughter was able to take her first buck with the rifle/optic set up we had sent him. These are the typical conversations my shop has with customers we sell ZCO scopes to.
Maybe someone from CS Tactical or Mile High can jump in and let us know what they see with their customers when it comes to feedback on ZCO products. When someone claims they had 5 of 6 ZCO optics fail, I think of my experience as a dealer for ZCO the past few years and think how in the world could that happen to one person. We've sold a pretty significant number of ZCO's over the years and prior to finding out about the issue HTI-416 had with his optic, we had a grand total of one other person have an issue that was reported to us. Someone having issues with 5 out of 6 scopes just seems nearly impossible.
Anyways, I hope this thread can get back on track. If people have an issue arise, they should be able to post about it here. We should welcome hearing about possible issues. Those of us on here should be asking questions when people have issues and try to help others problem shoot their issues. Likewise, those having success with their optics should be posting about them here.
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At last....some maturity...
Attached are a couple of videos of the first 2 scopes I had fail ...
Both times the issue developed AFTER being used on heavy recoiling calibers.
Parallax became gritty,notchy,binding.....you can hear it hopefully in the video as I wind the focus dial back and forth..
From this point ...POI went to hell.
Tried various mounts....varying torque settings..
My original 5-27 ( the one that got me keen to get more ZCO s) is still going strong on my old SRS DT( primarily 338lap) .....not an issue.
Scopes went back to ZCO Europe.....but never got any info on what the assessment was...
Kudos on you mate for taking the time and effort to set the record straight from your end. Shouldn’t have had to tho
I'm sure i would as they would claim the mount was wrong, or the shaft was to long, or my underwear were to tight, or i was from a bad batch... Then they would try again and still mess it up, even with the underwear they told me to use... Sometimes people just can't get things right..
One thing I don't understand. If someone from ZCO is going through the trouble of testing the scope with 3 rifles and sees no faults, why not show the resulting groups? 
I certainly would use those to shame the loudmouthed, complaining customers.
I certainly would use those to shame the loudmouthed, complaining customers. Lugging a camera to take pics, edit, and post takes too much time. Like a person that records the concert with their iPad.One thing I don't understand. If someone from ZCO is going through the trouble of testing the scope with 3 rifles and sees no faults, why not show the resulting groups?
whether or not the scope did fail, ZCO stood behind the product and made it right. I t should have ended there. Move on
While no longer at Mile High, while I was there I had no customer issues with any ZCOs.
As far as I remember in this train wreck, no one has questioned that it's possible for zco to have an issue. ANY mechanical device can have an issue, no matter who makes it. The issue has consistently been how these 2 have conducted themselves over many months here as it relates to zco. It's been made very clear so many times how they feel that it's become tiresome to everyone. Zco has once again handles themselves like professionals. Hopefully this can all be over with.
It's funny to me that the one guy is so proud of his NF now. For his sake, I sure hope he doesn't need that warranty. He's going to quickly find out how well he really was treated by zco of he does. I really do hope he's happy with his set up (both of them). Its frustrating when you spend that kind of money on an optic and have issues, regardless of why. Hopefully everyone has learned what not to do here and we can all move on.
As soon HTI mentioned getting an attorney, I decided to bow out from this discussion regarding him as it was not worth the headache. Just the latest posts confirm it and is out of hand 
I agree, the 2X is probably my favorite layout. My last two have been the 2x 10mil NLE and just love them!
I can’t believe this cluster fuck is still going on. Do I think that some people had some legitimate issues with ZCO’s? Yes. You look like whiney bitches though continue to complain about the same shit. You got your money back and I don’t know of a single other optics company that would offer a refund.
Congrats that you like your NF though, if you think they can’t have parallax failures too though you’re sadly mistaken. Many people have had failures including myself and NF were absolute assholes to deal with on the issue and would not own their scope possibly fucking up.
Congrats that you like your NF though, if you think they can’t have parallax failures too though you’re sadly mistaken. Many people have had failures including myself and NF were absolute assholes to deal with on the issue and would not own their scope possibly fucking up.
I've got 5 of them... same here. I'm liking the new 6-36x56 quite a bit.
I get that, now you know how i feel about ZCO... The difference is you just bashed NF, and that's ok.. Your entitled to your opinion.. But, I said that my ZCO was a waste of money, or something like that 15 pages ago and you would think I said something about people's mothers or Jesus...
They can all break, i know that, but did anyone say they would come show you how to mount it properly, or you lack the technical ability to operate your scope properly and I could go on and on about the BS some of these tools said...
If you think NF sucks, cool man... You want my honest opinion, NF is a notch down for sure... I loved my ZCO, but "For me" it didn't work out at all, twice.. And now they want to post that they found no issues which is straight up ( A LIE )!!! The whole thing is shady AF... All that stuff they posted was never told to me; the customer... Where are the test results, where are the targets, why have people remove their mounts for the return process, when your main defense is that mounts are causing the problem.. I would want the mount attached to see how it was mounted.. ZCO could mount it in the customers mount they way they recommend and return the scope back mounted to ZCO's specifications... There is to much going on in my PM about these folks... It won't be the last of these issue.. As others read this more will go back.. This thread has already resulted in that..
As several others have done, anyone wants to talk just PM me, i'll send you my number and we can chat on the phone...
But here's the just:
1. Rounds float around the target randomly.
a. seems hard to pinpoint where to adjust, as there is no clear bias in impacts to adjust to
2. doesn't seem to hold zero
a. Zero, put the gun away, shoot a month later and no impacts on target
b. Re-zero shows its several moa off
3. have the weird sensation you have forgotten how to shoot all of sudden..
4. the last sign there is an issue ---- ZCO sends you a new scope, then comments there was nothing found wrong with the scope they tested on the forum a month later.
Download the app on your iphone and tape the call with them.. Highly advisable... What they say on the phone isn't what they'll type in the forum...
((( Make sure you live in a one party record state.. )))
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Fine, we get it, you feel lied to. Nothing you say or we say will ever change that. You like your ATCAR , excellent, I like all 6 of mine, I also like my four ZCO 527s, you don’t excellent. Honestly we are all flapping away to laugh at the last pot shot either you or someone else made. It is actually getting boring. Other than stirring a pot that is already stuck, what do you actually hope to get out of this?I get that, now you know how i feel about ZCO... The difference is you just bashed NF, and that's ok.. Your entitled to your opinion.. But, I said that my ZCO was a waste of money, or something like that 15 pages ago and you would think I said something about people's mothers or Jesus...
They can all break, i know that, but did anyone say they would come show you how to mount it properly, or you lack the technical ability to operate your scope properly and I could go on and on about the BS some of these tools said...
If you think NF sucks, cool man... You want my honest opinion, NF is a notch down for sure... I loved my ZCO, but "For me" it didn't work out at all, twice.. And now they want to post that they found no issues which is straight up ( A LIE )!!! The whole thing is shady AF... All that stuff they posted was never told to me; the customer... Where are the test results, where are the targets, why have people remove their mounts for the return process, when your main defense is that mounts are causing the problem.. I would want the mount attached to see how it was mounted.. ZCO could mount it in the customers mount they way they recommend and return the scope back mounted to ZCO's specifications... There is to much going on in my PM about these folks... It won't be the last of these issue.. As others read this more will go back.. This thread has already resulted in that..
As several others have done, anyone wants to talk just PM me, i'll send you my number and we can chat on the phone...
But here's the just:
1. Rounds float around the target randomly.
a. seems hard to pinpoint where to adjust, as there is no clear bias in impacts to adjust to
2. doesn't seem to hold zero
a. Zero, put the gun away, shoot a month later and no impacts on target
b. Re-zero shows its several moa off
3. have the weird sensation you have forgotten how to shoot all of sudden..
4. the last sign there is an issue ---- ZCO sends you a new scope, then comments there was nothing found wrong with the scope they tested on the forum a month later.
Download the app on your iphone and tape the call with them.. Highly advisable... What they say on the phone isn't what they'll type in the forum...
((( Make sure you live in a one party record state.. )))
I get that, now you know how i feel about ZCO... The difference is you just bashed NF, and that's ok.. Your entitled to your opinion.. But, I said that my ZCO was a waste of money, or something like that 15 pages ago and you would think I said something about people's mothers or Jesus...
They can all break, i know that, but did anyone say they would come show you how to mount it properly, or you lack the technical ability to operate your scope properly and I could go on and on about the BS some of these tools said...
If you think NF sucks, cool man... You want my honest opinion, NF is a notch down for sure... I loved my ZCO, but "For me" it didn't work out at all, twice.. And now they want to post that they found no issues which is straight up ( A LIE )!!! The whole thing is shady AF... All that stuff they posted was never told to me; the customer... Where are the test results, where are the targets, why have people remove their mounts for the return process, when your main defense is that mounts are causing the problem.. I would want the mount attached to see how it was mounted.. ZCO could mount it in the customers mount they way they recommend and return the scope back mounted to ZCO's specifications... There is to much going on in my PM about these folks... It won't be the last of these issue.. As others read this more will go back.. This thread has already resulted in that..
As several others have done, anyone wants to talk just PM me, i'll send you my number and we can chat on the phone...
But here's the just:
1. Rounds float around the target randomly.
a. seems hard to pinpoint where to adjust, as there is no clear bias in impacts to adjust to
2. doesn't seem to hold zero
a. Zero, put the gun away, shoot a month later and no impacts on target
b. Re-zero shows its several moa off
3. have the weird sensation you have forgotten how to shoot all of sudden..
4. the last sign there is an issue ---- ZCO sends you a new scope, then comments there was nothing found wrong with the scope they tested on the forum a month later.
Download the app on your iphone and tape the call with them.. Highly advisable... What they say on the phone isn't what they'll type in the forum...
((( Make sure you live in a one party record state.. )))
If you put out respectful posts, you would be taken more seriously and given the same level of respect in return. Quite a simple concept really.
Same as the insinuations you have made against ZCO and your dealings with other vendors, who have then posted here to clarify their involvement with you.
Have you taken my last suggestion - Collate all the issues in detail you have been PMd about and provided them to ZCO for analysis or have you just whined like a little bitch?
I am planning to purchase a ZCO next week or so.
I keep going back and forth on the magnification.
Current user of mk5 5-25x but mostly stay around 16-20 range. How is the optical quality of 4-20 on the higher magnifications?
I will be using it on 6cm gun for local matches 200- 1200 ranges.
I keep going back and forth on the magnification.
Current user of mk5 5-25x but mostly stay around 16-20 range. How is the optical quality of 4-20 on the higher magnifications?
I will be using it on 6cm gun for local matches 200- 1200 ranges.
Also interested in replies on this related to the 4-20. Debating a 4-20 for our LMT MWS.
New addition to the 6.5 bolt setup, works perfectly with the low diving board on top of the 5-27.
The 420 and 527 are both very good. It's going to be hard to go wrong. I don't think I've ever had the 420 on 20x and thought I'd rather have the 527 because 20x looked better on the 527 optically.
If your only reason is that you don't use the top end magnification much, I'd still get the 527. I'd get 420 if the length and objective diameter better suited what you were using/mounting it on.
Also, keep in mind, you can only get certain features like the 10mil non locking turret on the 527. And if memory serves me correctly, the MPCT2X reticle is only available in the 527.
What are the preferred (and most supported) flip caps? Looking for something to replace the the bikini cover that came with my 527.
I saw Tenebraex is now making the ZCO caps. Is Aadmount still the preferred solution?
I saw Tenebraex is now making the ZCO caps. Is Aadmount still the preferred solution?
Optically the ZCO420 I have is as good, if not better the swaro’s, Kahles and Meoptas I own. Have used the 420 up to max mag, even in heavy mirage out to 1Km thus far, soon to be much farther. The 420 does start to darken slightly at max mag/low light but no getting around that tbh no matter what scope.
As already stated, decision should come down to form factor, intended use and reticle you want. Mine is on a lightweight LR hunting (280AI) so form factor/weight was driving factor for me.
^^^That rifle is fire.Also interested in replies on this related to the 4-20. Debating a 4-20 for our LMT MWS.
New addition to the 6.5 bolt setup, works perfectly with the low diving board on top of the 5-27.
I have been using atacr 4-16x mil-xt on my SR25 and have been enjoying it a lot. Very comfortable 500-700 range
I have Tenebraex on all 4 of mine. When I have ordered the scopes from two different vendors each automatically picked them when I asked for caps. They work great.
Tenebrex is definitely my preffered
I sold a 420 to a customer a few weeks ago who had been running a 4-16 ATACR. The ATACR is now up for sale and he wants to pick up a 527 for a new rifle he recently acquired.
I love the form factor of the 4-20. I think it would go very well on the platform you have been running.
I have both a 420 & 527, and I agree with @Rio Precision Gunworks that I have never used my 420 and thought "I sure wish I had my 527". I rarely break 18x on either scope though.
It comes down to weight, length, reticle, and turret options between the 420 & 527.
The 420 definitely has a place.
Ya until the 1.5" mbrace mount arrives.
I'd love to have a 420 on my precision AR. Right now I have a Vortex LHT on it which is ok, but that's really the only rifle I shoot that doesn't have a zco on it so it's tough to go back to an LHT from a 527 zco.... 1st world problems I know
Right on, and is that an AR15 or 10?
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