Ok I have a poll question M1A or AR10 SASS
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The Cartmann .308 Family:
Great topic... that I intend to avoid but I just had to comment on this picture. Best gun picture ever! I mean, I know we're all operators but a Jedi...
Yes, M14 won the service rifle long range championship at Camp Perry in 2013. The reality there are more M14/M1as on the firing line for across the course than AR10s. I do not recall seeing any AR10s in recent times in across the course matches.
Extracted from the NRA website.
High Service Rifle CPT FREEMAN, SAMUEL K, USA RES
HENDERSONVILLE, NC
1762 BILLY C. ATKINS TROPHY MINIATURE AND A $50
VISA GIFT CARD
As far as top tier across the course shooters go, the same people will float to the top regardless of weapon deployed. Ty Cooper or Grant Singley in his days and even maybe now, if you equip them with match tuned M14/M1as and tuned ammo to the rifle, just like what AR15 users do, they would still be hard to beat.
FYI, despite the proliferation of the little black guns (read AR15s not AR10s) in across the course matches, the Inter-service Individual record 1000 point aggregate, 995-50X is still holding, set by a Marine shooting a M14.
Regards,
Nez Rongero
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No way you are gonna talk smack on frodo and walk away. That little Guy was the baddest mofo in the hobbit. I bet you are more of a twinky elf type anyways.
Pretty sure if you want to shoot across the course or presidents hundred you have to shoot a m1a or garand. Theres no denying that the AR has totally displaced the m1a in servicerifle. Its getting down to the diehards now, just look at the m14 forums on the net compared to the AR and AK forums they are rather short on members. Only a select few guys still work on the platform. I live in norcal where there are probably 10mil people within an hours driving distance and theres only one m1a smith......
I don't buy that the AR is more accurate then the M1A, but that depends on the owner of each. AR owners are going to say the AR is more accurate, M1A owners say theirs is more accurate.
As to competition, you need to evaluate your choice carefully. Yes the NRA recognizes the AR as a service rifle. Its legal in NRA service rifle competitions, BUT, when one starts shooting High Power he's going to want to work on his Distinguished Rifle Badge, or shoot the Presidents Hundred and similar matches. These rifles are conducted by the CMP, not the NRA, and CMP Rules apply. The CMP does not recognize the AR 10 series rifles as service rifles. To compete in these events you need the M1A or the 223/5.56 M16 series of rifles (or civilian equivalent which the AR 10 isn't.
CMP Rules: For the AR; 6.2.3 U.S. Rifle, Caliber 5.56 mm, M16 The rifle must be an M16A2 or M16A4 rifle issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial rifle of the same type and caliber. M16 rifles must be chambered for the 5.56 mm cartridge.
M14/M1a: Rule 6.2.2 U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62 mm NATO (.308 Win), M14 The rifle must be a rifle that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial rifle of the same type and caliber. M14 rifles must be chambered for the 7.62 mm NATO cartridge....
If you look on table 2 Rule 6.2 and compare the specs, the Heavy Match M1A is legal in Service rifle Competitions:
CMP Rule Books can be down loaded here:
CMP - Service Rifle
As to competition, you need to evaluate your choice carefully. Yes the NRA recognizes the AR as a service rifle. Its legal in NRA service rifle competitions, BUT, when one starts shooting High Power he's going to want to work on his Distinguished Rifle Badge, or shoot the Presidents Hundred and similar matches. These rifles are conducted by the CMP, not the NRA, and CMP Rules apply. The CMP does not recognize the AR 10 series rifles as service rifles. To compete in these events you need the M1A or the 223/5.56 M16 series of rifles (or civilian equivalent which the AR 10 isn't.
CMP Rules: For the AR; 6.2.3 U.S. Rifle, Caliber 5.56 mm, M16 The rifle must be an M16A2 or M16A4 rifle issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial rifle of the same type and caliber. M16 rifles must be chambered for the 5.56 mm cartridge.
M14/M1a: Rule 6.2.2 U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62 mm NATO (.308 Win), M14 The rifle must be a rifle that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial rifle of the same type and caliber. M14 rifles must be chambered for the 7.62 mm NATO cartridge....
If you look on table 2 Rule 6.2 and compare the specs, the Heavy Match M1A is legal in Service rifle Competitions:
CMP Rule Books can be down loaded here:
CMP - Service Rifle
It's really an Elvin Blade.. but got lost..then Bilbo found it, then passed it on to Frodo.
You don't like swords? please discuss...
Actually sting is a dagger, now glamdring is a sword. I have a reproduction of that one.
Are AR10's even allowed to to compete in Service Rifle?
No one said a M14 can't be accurate. A AR10 is just easier to accurize, and for the most part more accurate out of the box. I would like to see this winning rifle in 2013. I am thinking Heavy Kreiger Barrel, McMillan Stock.
AR10 - legal in NRA, not legal in CMP.
I have to admit, out of the box precision, the AR platform gets the edge, but a match prepped 14 can hang with any gas guns in the precision department. I shoot a couple of double lugged M1As with heavy Krieger barrels, and McMillan stocks. Captain Freeman's rifle is an All Guard armorer match prepped 14.
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In NRA Service Rifle Yes,
In CMP Service rifle, NO
When rules conflict, CMP Rules apply. Such as EIC, Presidents Hundred, and similar matches.
I was under the impression that the OP was asking about the choice between the AR10 and M1A, with intent on pleasure shooting and moving to competition. How this evolved into what top combat killers use is beyond me. In reality, since most soldiers don't get a choice, they shoot what Uncles tell them to shoot. As to me, I was told to shoot the M16A1 and in the jungles of SE Asia I don't think I could ask for a better weapon.
Since I got distinguished I haven't been a serious HP shooter, I've ventured into Vintage Military rifles. But when I do shoot an Across the Course Match I've started using my White Oak Service Rifle.
I admit I don't have much experience with the AR 10 series, I do have a bit of experience with the M1A, starting in 1966 having trained on the M14 in Basic, in AIT and with the 82nd before I went to Vietnam and was handed the M16a1. I started competition with the M1A in 1977. It was a 4 digit serial number. 0068XX, standard grade. When I started attending the Wilson Matches (National Guard Championships) my rifle was taken from me by Gene Barnett (Barnett barrels, who was an armor for the NGBMTU) and converted to a supper match. I've been shooting it every since. A LOT.
I do take exception to the idea the Super Match (or heavy match) is hard to maintain. I haven't found that to be the case. I've shot the rifle below since 1977, thousands of rounds per year (except the last few years). After being converted, I've shot out some barrels and stretched out some slings, that's it, nothing else broke. As to switching barrels, I did that on my own, its not that difficult, it just has to re-seated in the bedding. I'm no gun smith, but I can change, chamber and headspace a barrel and get distinguished with that rifle.
As too LC118LR, I don't know about the issue of bent op rods, never heard of that happening until these post. It didn't exist when I was shooting for the Guard. For 1000 yard matches we used Mexican Match, pulling the bullets of LC 118 and installing 180 SMKs, same powder charge. We also reloaded LC brass with 180s and 41.5 gr of 4895. Same as with Across the Course ammo only using 168 SMKs.
Match M14/M1A problems are caused by improper cleaning. There is nothing on the M14/M1A that needs to be cleaned or lubed that cant be cleaned and lubed without taking the rifle out of the stock.
As I said, I don't know about the AR 10, but I do about the M1A, the difference is in the opinion of the shooter/owner. The exception is if one is going to shoot CMP Service Rifle with intent on earing the Distinguished Rifle Badge or Presidents Hundred Tab, rules eliminate any choice.
I just don't buy the M14/M1A is that hard to maintain.
In NRA Service Rifle Yes,
In CMP Service rifle, NO
When rules conflict, CMP Rules apply. Such as EIC, Presidents Hundred, and similar matches.
I was under the impression that the OP was asking about the choice between the AR10 and M1A, with intent on pleasure shooting and moving to competition. How this evolved into what top combat killers use is beyond me. In reality, since most soldiers don't get a choice, they shoot what Uncles tell them to shoot. As to me, I was told to shoot the M16A1 and in the jungles of SE Asia I don't think I could ask for a better weapon.
Since I got distinguished I haven't been a serious HP shooter, I've ventured into Vintage Military rifles. But when I do shoot an Across the Course Match I've started using my White Oak Service Rifle.
I admit I don't have much experience with the AR 10 series, I do have a bit of experience with the M1A, starting in 1966 having trained on the M14 in Basic, in AIT and with the 82nd before I went to Vietnam and was handed the M16a1. I started competition with the M1A in 1977. It was a 4 digit serial number. 0068XX, standard grade. When I started attending the Wilson Matches (National Guard Championships) my rifle was taken from me by Gene Barnett (Barnett barrels, who was an armor for the NGBMTU) and converted to a supper match. I've been shooting it every since. A LOT.
I do take exception to the idea the Super Match (or heavy match) is hard to maintain. I haven't found that to be the case. I've shot the rifle below since 1977, thousands of rounds per year (except the last few years). After being converted, I've shot out some barrels and stretched out some slings, that's it, nothing else broke. As to switching barrels, I did that on my own, its not that difficult, it just has to re-seated in the bedding. I'm no gun smith, but I can change, chamber and headspace a barrel and get distinguished with that rifle.
As too LC118LR, I don't know about the issue of bent op rods, never heard of that happening until these post. It didn't exist when I was shooting for the Guard. For 1000 yard matches we used Mexican Match, pulling the bullets of LC 118 and installing 180 SMKs, same powder charge. We also reloaded LC brass with 180s and 41.5 gr of 4895. Same as with Across the Course ammo only using 168 SMKs.
Match M14/M1A problems are caused by improper cleaning. There is nothing on the M14/M1A that needs to be cleaned or lubed that cant be cleaned and lubed without taking the rifle out of the stock.
As I said, I don't know about the AR 10, but I do about the M1A, the difference is in the opinion of the shooter/owner. The exception is if one is going to shoot CMP Service Rifle with intent on earing the Distinguished Rifle Badge or Presidents Hundred Tab, rules eliminate any choice.
I just don't buy the M14/M1A is that hard to maintain.
Maintenance and "maintain" is all relative. Once a M1A/M14 is up and working it will be fairly reliable. The AR is just easier to build, smith, accessorize, scope, and accurize. For the most part, the only thing really needed to make an AR accurate is to buy a quality barrel and tighten down the barrel nut, that's about it.
41.5 of H4895 is a fairly mild load, and should not beat up any gun. Current M118LR is loaded to less than 2600 fps, while old school M118LR was ~2750 fps (chrono'd at 80 ft). AR10's can handle old school M118LR, the M14 could not. The original M118LR was loaded really hot for the M24 Bolt gun, but when the M14 came back in service, guys were using it, and that is when the bent oprod problems started happening. Newer M118LR was loaded mild just for the M14.
When I bought my DPMS SASS all I ever did was oil the BCG and run a patch down the barrel every now and then. Always shot MOA or better with match ammunition and the only thing that went in 2000 rounds was the little bolt-hold-open due to the fact that DPMS uses a dinky set screw instead of a roll pin. My M1A loaded retails for a similar amount and is generally a 2MOA rifle, I have about 1500 through it now and have had to clean the gas system ~3 times, take down the bolt carrier 2x for extractor/ejector issues and replace some springs as well as the entire trigger group. Now I am looking at bedding it in a mcmillan myself to see if I can get it down near 1.5MOA on a regular basis.
Don't get me wrong I like my m1a (and my extractor/ejector issues could have been because I run hotter loads and have an optic mounted) but between the two the AR10 was a lot easier to live with for me at least.
41.5 H4895 in LC brass with a 175smk chronoed 2580fps for me, M118LR of newer headstamp chronoed about the same as did FGMM 175. The older m118LR I had, I want to say 05 headstamp, was 2680 or something. Unreal fast by comparison.
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I have done literally zero work to mine and it functions flawlessly. Its a older m1a with gi parts which may help.
For reals, I have been in the M14 game for 15+ years, and I use to be really attached to them too, just like you. I never really had a problem with any of mine. All of them worked, and kept on working. Only issue I had with one of mine is weak extraction due to a weak ejector, and this is only a problem when I ran a low ARMS scope mount, Stovepipe city.
Same here and I was laughing at someone else calling the M1 / M14 platform "fairly reliable".
Its on par as calling a Kalashnikov "fairly reliable" which is hilarious and asinine since both have a reputation for working in adverse conditions.
I guess my use of the term "fairly reliable" was a poor use of terms. Since I got my rifle in '77, the only work done was the NGMTU converting it to Super Match, stretching out some leather slings, and replacing shot out barrels, I'm had zero problems. Can't blame the gun itself for the shot out barrels since I've shot the shit out of it (including several Rattle Battles), and maybe a bit more saddle soap would have keep the sling from stretching as much. we can't blame that on the rifle.
So let me correct my statement to "extremely reliable" since she never failed me in regards to malfunctioning.
I don't "overly" clean it, as long as the gas piston sides back and forth on its own, I don't screw with it. I have "armor's gages" and do check the piston and cylinder when I do clean the piston, it's still within specks.
So let me correct my statement to "extremely reliable" since she never failed me in regards to malfunctioning.
I don't "overly" clean it, as long as the gas piston sides back and forth on its own, I don't screw with it. I have "armor's gages" and do check the piston and cylinder when I do clean the piston, it's still within specks.
tough crowd! man you guys are EXTREMELY EMOTIONALLY attached to your rifle. Fairly Reliable is a compliment.
What do you want me to say? VERY RELIABLE? Reliable is all subjective. All my guns tend to shoot great once I have them properly tuned. Then again, I don't drop my guns from a 5 ton Truck, and I have never done in Artic type testing to say anything more than "fairly reliable"
I take that back... I did do some Artic Testing with my firearms before... I put my HK45c in the Freezer (accidentally) when I got some ice cream. It was in there for a good 2 hours. The next day it shot great! that is about the most artic testing I have done with any of my firearms.
What do you want me to say? VERY RELIABLE? Reliable is all subjective. All my guns tend to shoot great once I have them properly tuned. Then again, I don't drop my guns from a 5 ton Truck, and I have never done in Artic type testing to say anything more than "fairly reliable"
I take that back... I did do some Artic Testing with my firearms before... I put my HK45c in the Freezer (accidentally) when I got some ice cream. It was in there for a good 2 hours. The next day it shot great! that is about the most artic testing I have done with any of my firearms.
I get it, you guys love your rifle, and are emotionally attached to it... and you only want good things being said about your rifle... Let me know what I need to do NOT to make anyone angry. I am here for you guys.
I have used my m1a in the desert, the prairie, river bottoms and high altitude pine forests. Its seen horseback, ATV rides over rough terrain, been dropped. I shot coyotes at -20 and 600 yd targets on 100° days. It just works.
seems like a lot of rifles can do that. why do you pick to love the M1A more than the other rifles?
I would say its about 5th on the list. For me its the functionality, the nostalgia, the very ethos of this rifle. Its a part of our heritage and culture as riflemen. Any "scholarly gentleman" can give larue and nightforce a wad of money and go shoot decent groups. To master this bitch takes time and effort. Its the same reason I tune my own engines, break my own horses and build 1911's. What's life without a challenge?
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so because someone owns a Laure and has enough money to dress it with a NightForce that makes him a douche?
because you love a rifle for it's nostalgia, and you think it has "heritage" and "culture" that makes YOU less of a douche?
because you break in your own horses, and build 1911's that makes the M1A a better rifle?
I LEARN A LOT ON GUN FORUMS!
Please Discuss...
I have 2 M1A's and 2 LR 308's one is a SASS. I have shot a ton of ammo thorough all. LR's are heavy. Recoil sucks with them do to the weight of the bolt carrier assembly. They are very sensitive to port pressure so I run regulators on them. All four guns shoot under 1 MOA all day. If I had to buy one again it would be the M1A. Faster sight recovery from shot to shot over the LR's. But I'm old and I look at them as a tool and which tool would serve me best. I have had more problems with the LR's than any firearm I have every owned. It's all about bolt speed with them. Good luck.
not trying reason with anyone. I am trying to enter his world. sometimes it's good to enter fantasy worlds.
I gave you an honest and straightforward answer, you can interpret it any way you like. I have 400$ worth of brand new nylon and a fresh case of 5.56, I am off to play. Feel free to go fuck yourself with a rake.
Stay Classy.
You chose to ignore fact after fact, including those by combat vets, Snipers and experienced competitive shooters and fall back on "I shot a yote wit it" as your defense. You continue to argue and fight despite your complete ignorance and lack of experience with not only the m14 platform, but how it compares to other guns in its class. Cartman was pretty much handling you with kiddo gloves the whole time and trying to reason with you, he has more patience than I. So you tell him to fuck himself with a rake?
Why are you even on this site. You don't want to learn or take advise, and you have absolutely zero value to share with the board..........so whats your goal here?
It must be to waste peoples time and piss them off in the process when they are trying to help other shooters. Because that is exactly what you have done here.
Feel free to go fuck yourself with a rake.
Now that is funny shit right there. I don't care who it was directed at.
Now that is funny shit right there. I don't care who it was directed at.
Not really. I have enjoyed most of our conversation. If you still cannot understand why I love my m1a at this point then there is no further need for discussion. Cyclical arguments get old after awhile. As I have mentioned multiple times in this thread I own both of the rifle platforms under discussion in this thread. I prefer my m1a. End of story.
There are many reasons to love a M1A. "I love it just because I do" is also a valid reasons. I am just wondering why People who buy Larue and put a NF optic on it are douches and you are not. That is all I was asking.
I own a lwrc repr with a nf on it. It was just a colorful adjective. If it unsticks your panties I will edit it.
Thanks for the FACTUAL info on the M1A/M14 performance.
Couple of points in response:
Take a look at the Across-the-Course winners in the last 10 years and note how many winners were shooting an AR platform, versus an M1A platform? Obvious answer, the AR platform significantly dominates those numbers. Also take a look at the Record Books, and see how many of those records are held by an M1A platform versus an AR platform. Once again, the AR platform is going to be dominant.
While an AR15 is not an AR10, in terms of rifle platforms, they are essentially the same, and the AR platform is hands down the most commonly found on the firing line (outside of rules driven / vintage rifle matches).
Of course if you want to look at Across-the-Course matches, if allowed the AR10 would have a significant advantage, and I would SPECULATE that it would completely change the record books, and that is why the CMP will probably never allow it. Hard to comment on the AR10 platform not being in the rule books if it has never been allowed in competition.
You can "cherry pick" examples that will favor the M1A, but the current overall numbers will ultimately support the AR platform.
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Thanks as always Kraig, for providing some very good FACTUAL information on the NRA/CMP matches.
Of course this information also shows why rifles like the M1A are still used in competition, because of RULES!
If you conduct a survey of matches that do NOT have those rules limitations, and shooters have a choice what they can shoot, the AR platform is without question the most common platform used and the most common platform found on the winners platform.
Also, the NRA has finally caught up with the 21st Century and has introduced the National Defense Matches, where it should be no surprise that without the archaic rules limitations that the AR platform accounts for over 75% of the rifles used.
When it comes to competition, it comes down to one thing, and that is winning. Given the ever increasing numbers on the firing line and the winners podium, the AR platform has obviously shown that it is capable of producing winning results much more economically, easily, and consistently than the M1A platform.
Per above, I doubt the NRA or CMP will ever change the rules books in some forms of competition, and as such you will never see the AR10 platform given a chance to replace the M1A platform in those formats.
In NRA Service Rifle Yes,
I was under the impression that the OP was asking about the choice between the AR10 and M1A, with intent on pleasure shooting and moving to competition. How this evolved into what top combat killers use is beyond me. In reality, since most soldiers don't get a choice, they shoot what Uncles tell them to shoot. As to me, I was told to shoot the M16A1 and in the jungles of SE Asia I don't think I could ask for a better weapon. . . . . .
I do take exception to the idea the Super Match (or heavy match) is hard to maintain. I haven't found that to be the case. I've shot the rifle below since 1977, thousands of rounds per year (except the last few years). After being converted, I've shot out some barrels and stretched out some slings, that's it, nothing else broke. As to switching barrels, I did that on my own, its not that difficult, it just has to re-seated in the bedding. I'm no gun smith, but I can change, chamber and headspace a barrel and get distinguished with that rifle. . . . . .
I just don't buy the M14/M1A is that hard to maintain.
I mentioned what the Top Tier of Military Shooters are CHOOSING to use because they CHOOSE to use the BEST. As you well know being a Vet, when your ass is on the line, you want the most reliable, functional, and accurate rifle that you can get your hands on. Fortunately for SOCOM they have that choice and can procure rifles COTS (commercial off the shelf). If you look at the rifles that they are CHOOSING to buy, they are buying AR platforms, NOT M1A platforms. I just spent weeks with a number of Tier 1 Snipers from various branches, and NOT ONE OF THEM was running an M1A/M14 platform.
The only Military units still actively using the M1A/M14 platform, are the ones who have NO other option. Once again the Military made its decision on the M1A/M14 platform years ago, they choose to REMOVE IT FROM ACTIVE SERVICE. The only reason it was brought back into active service, is because it was a STOP GAP action until another platform could be placed into service. Now that the AR platforms coming into service, the M1A/M14 platforms are going back into mothballs.
I am not sure why any shooter, Civilian, Military, or LE would want anything but the BEST?
I can understand someone wanting an M1A platform because of sentimental reasons or personal preference, but that is not what the OP asked. My understanding was that he wanted the BEST platform.
As far as maintaining the M1A platform, it can obviously be done, however it is not without its challenges and it is significantly more involved than maintenance on an AR platform. If you note the comments from the troops in the field in A-Stan, they were obviously having a number of problems maintaining their rifles. Of course whether you are a civilian shooter who occasional shoots your rifle, or a combat soldier using it daily in the field, will have a lot to do with your "maintenance issues". While the M1A platform is not impossible to maintain, hands down the AR platform is MUCH MORE easier to maintain, and it is another main reason why the Military is NOT CHOOSING IT.
For The Record,
I never stated that the M1A platform is useless, unreliable, or inaccurate. I have said that when taking everything into consideration, that the AR platform is BETTER, and I am going to stand by that, along with all of the Mil & LE Snipers and Competitive Shooters that I know.
OK is the ss barrel that much better than the blued barrel on a m1a? I'm gone to buy both now and maybe a so com version of the m1a platform.
If you're talking about the Super match and M21, Krieger has single point cut rifling and Douglas is a button rifled barrel.
As to which is better I have owned both and noticed no significant difference in accuracy from one to the other.
Some people swear by the Krieger as to being able to achieve more accuracy with the stainless.
The original post is not about AR15 and M1A, but rather about AR10 and M1A. Like I mentioned I have not seen an AR10 used in across the course
The AR15 and AR10 though share similar design, the latter just an overgrown one. That is where the similarities end in terms of a service rifle across the course gun for most people, the extra length receiver without the adjustable butt stock as employed in a match rifle is not as standing friendly as the little guy. Have you tried the AR10 across the course? The side note about the interservice record is just an illustration, as everyone have mentioned, the rifle can be made to shoot. Don't forget though, the 10 ring is 2 minutes.
I am not debating what is the preferred rifle these days, I merely pointed out that the 14 did win the LR match at Perry. That was a good comparison since the dominant rifle for LR started by AMU is the AR10. To be fair the AR10 set a few records in LR. In any match, he who makes the least mistakes wins. Last year, Freeman was the man.
Even at age 62 I still shoot shoot service rifles, both AR15s and M1As. I could not see any difference in my scores. In 2012 I won a state match high power championship, not service rifle championship shooting my M1A against bolt guns and space guns. The same year I won a LEG match against ARs. And I've won LEG matches with my ARs as well.
The big difference that I see that separates the AR15, not AR10, from the M1A is in sitting. The AR guy is already fine tuning for the X ring while the 14 guy is just acquiring the sight picture from the recoil. The rest of the stages they are just about wash. The most appealing part of the AR15 at least to people like me with fix retirement income is in the economics of the game, almost half the cost to feed the little guy or train twice as much with same budget.
What rifle do you shoot across the course?
I have fired them all and went back to the M1A platform.
Its not as forgiving for bad wind calls and if your position is not good / solid the .30 caliber will break it down.
I am 51 and will see if my eyes can still focus on the front post........
Kudos to the jar head that fired the record score still standing.
Sometime your NPA is just off and the wind does not help. I will take my inferior M14 / M1A scores any day of the week.
(Harned)
200 yard CMP match / service rife.
The wind was bad and an "X" was hard to come by~
An AR15 is sooooo much easier to shoot and with the low drag bullets makes is a LOT easier.
c'mon bros, we been over dis....FAL ftmfw!
aint rite, aint rite, yaint bumpin like im bumpin, yaint sayin nuttin homy, yaint O.A.F. as im is.
aint rite, aint rite, yaint bumpin like im bumpin, yaint sayin nuttin homy, yaint O.A.F. as im is.
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