Member Link Up Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bottomgun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What time are you going to be out there? </div></div>

It was a last minute decision to head out the door and by the time I saw your post (just now) it was too late. We found a great spot, but the issue is access. I'm going to make an Appointment with the DNR person that runs Sherwood Forest DNR land and see what arms I can twist...

 

[Muttt]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I'd deffinitely be interested in an informal match. I'd like to try one of the east side matches, but I haven't shot over 300 yards in like 20 years. All the ranges I've shot at local only go to 200 or so and the Navy/Marines shut down all thier 500 yard ranges years ago. I haven't had a chance to stretch out any of the current rifles I own. And, in the last 5 years I got into reloading. So, I can't use any factory range cards either. So, I deffinitely need to get out there and shoot at some known distances and work out a good range card. Plus, 200 yards just isn't a challenge at all.


I've been talking with a shooting buddy of mine. We came up with this idea for mounting steel. We are talking about setting up a 66 percent ipsic on a dolly like stand (like you would use to move a fridge) with fat tires. This way, you could just wheel it out to the desired distance and it would stand by itself without need to put stakes in the ground. It would also allow for heavier plates and the weight wouldn't be much of an issue with the dolly. What do ya think?

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'll send you an email later today. One of the guys in my office is who I consider to be the top Vacant Land Expert in the State. He sells land for Weyerhauser as well. There's a TON of vacant land to be had on the cheap with the slowing of developments and land sitting for 2-3 years on market. What area's are you interested in mostly? </div></div>

Well, this may be a bit unreasonable...but I'd like to have the land within about 1hr drive of the Cottage Lake area of Woodinville. Finding something with the length that I'd like within an hours drive may be asking a bit much. If it came down to having to look a bit further out, I'd probably have to say the Olympic Peninsula may be on the list, or further north near Okanagan or between Marysville and Concrete, WA.

--Wintermute

 

[Muttt]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

The problem with building your own range is clearing it and then keeping it that way. You'd have to put a good investment of time and equipment to keep it cleared to an acceptable level. That's the problem with some of these clear cuts. You might find a nice place to shoot only to realize that after a couple years the scrub and sapplings have grown up too tall for you to keep shooting there.

If I were to buy a piece of land to shot at I'd want something with a valley to shoot across. That way, you only have to keep a few small plots cleared so you can shoot at them from the other side. That way, you don't have to worry about a back drop either.

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muttt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem with building your own range is clearing it and then keeping it that way. You'd have to put a good investment of time and equipment to keep it cleared to an acceptable level. That's the problem with some of these clear cuts. You might find a nice place to shoot only to realize that after a couple years the scrub and sapplings have grown up too tall for you to keep shooting there.

If I were to buy a piece of land to shot at I'd want something with a valley to shoot across. That way, you only have to keep a few small plots cleared so you can shoot at them from the other side. That way, you don't have to worry about a back drop either. </div></div>

True...but well, there's work in everything. I'd love to find a piece of land with a hillock on one side and a hillock on the other so that you have that valley to shoot across. On the other hand, if I just needed to clear a lane through the land, that I could do (or more importantly, if the trees are big enough, get someone to pay me to be allowed to do it). Keeping scrub clear isn't too bad...just takes a bit of time with a chainsaw and one heck of a burn pile.

--Wintermute

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I'll spend some time over the next couple of days seeing what I can come up with. Wooded is actually not that bad as long as you can get a straight shot to clear. At that point it's no more maintenance than mowing down brush periodically. The real hard part is getting an area where you won't get interference from the locals looking to bitch that they hear gunfire off in the distance... even if it is 20 miles away.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll spend some time over the next couple of days seeing what I can come up with. Wooded is actually not that bad as long as you can get a straight shot to clear. At that point it's no more maintenance than mowing down brush periodically. The real hard part is getting an area where you won't get interference from the locals looking to bitch that they hear gunfire off in the distance... even if it is 20 miles away. </div></div>

good point about the nosy neighboors, let us know what you find out. I have a big piece of steel that need a new home to be shot at.

 

[Unknown]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Would any of the fellows who have found spots around Allyn and Belfair be willing to share any of those spots? I would be really keen to find out where these spots are to either just shoot, or to try to organize something a bit more "interesting".

I understand that lots of people don't want to have their spots ruined by posting in the open on the internet, and then having some idiot shoot old TV sets, dump trash there and so on. If you wouldn't mind sending me an email, or PM, I'll be happy to meet with you ahead of time. That way, you won't be sharing information with a stranger, and it will allow you to get a chance to "interview" me, rather than expecting you to share prized information with a stranger on the internet.

 

[Muttt]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Honestly,

If someone did have a piece of land to shoot on. I'm sure others would be willing to help keep it cleared if they were allowed to shoot there. Not too hard to find someone with a brush hog either.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unincsmr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the site off hwy 3 south of Allyn, you can get out to 600 yards. This is one of stomping grounds.

</div></div>

We tried to check it out, but the only access I saw was behind a gate. Are you hiking in to it or did I miss access road?

 

[Unknown]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Hiking in with all the ammo, rifle, range kit, lunch, and steel would be a bit much... Now if the steel was out there already, and all I had to do was hump in my rifle and ammo, I could always go back to the car for lunch.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

These are the 3 areas I think will work well for us provided we can get access.

Area 1 - Right of the highway. If I can get us past the gate there's enough parking for a dozen vehicles, easy access to drive down to target areas for set-up, and ranges from 100-1000+ yards.

Area 2 - This has potential for multiple areas again ranging from 100-1000+. This is most ideal as it's secluded with less involvement if unwanted shooters trying to disrupt the area and the same benefits as above, but also the same issue of getting past the gate.

Area 3 - Another ideal spot North of Area 1, but again a gate.

I'm going to try and arrange an appointment with The Diamond Resources Group to put forth a proposal and explain exactly what we do, how we do it, and what we can offer in return whether it be service projects or what not.

 

[cloudy]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unincsmr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the site off hwy 3 south of Allyn, you can get out to 600 yards. This is one of stomping grounds.

</div></div>

We tried to check it out, but the only access I saw was behind a gate. Are you hiking in to it or did I miss access road? </div></div>

I hike in from the Grapeview loop side from a buddy's house. It's a 2 mile hike, not to bad. Sometimes you gotta work for it. There is not a whole lot of driving access out here, everything has a gate.

 

[Muttt]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

That sounds great. Broker, let me know if you need help.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unincsmr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is not a whole lot of driving access out here, everything has a gate. </div></div>

Yeah... I think I'm going to try and find a legal solution to that. I'm going to make an appointment with The Green Diamond Resource Company and the Sherwood Forest DNR manager over the next month. If there's a lock there's a key and it might just be we need to put forth a proposal and back it with a release of liability waiver and a realistic presentation of what we do since I think many hold the belief that all shooters are alike and as you all know that just isn't the case. I really need to get with Randy when he gets back from Hawaii as well since he's involved in politics and may be able to help with some political influence towards convincing State Lands that we need a safe environment for everyone. Getting access to areas that most won't access by foot is the best answer all around for controlling the environment...

 

[Unknown]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Broker and I were discussing the people (most of 'em anyhow) who do this kind of long distance shooting. They are a far cry different than the guys who show up with a cheap rifle, and a box of beer to shoot up old appliances or TV sets, then leave the junk laying around.

When you add up the cost of many of the rifles that alot of people on this board shoot, the rifle alone can easily run $2500-5500, and about the same for the scope. Low lifes usually just don't have that kind of money available.

My point is that most of the shooters here have a serious investment in equipment, and learning how to use it. They are very unlikely to behave in a fashion that will end up with them getting arrested, kicked out of somewhere, or having their gear seized while a court case proceeds. As a general rule, the folks here are a more thoughtful bunch... cerebral even...

 

[AtOne]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Broker and I were discussing the people (most of 'em anyhow) who do this kind of long distance shooting. They are a far cry different than the guys who show up with a cheap rifle, and a box of beer to shoot up old appliances or TV sets, then leave the junk laying around.

When you add up the cost of many of the rifles that alot of people on this board shoot, the rifle alone can easily run $2500-5500, and about the same for the scope. Low lifes usually just don't have that kind of money available.

My point is that most of the shooters here have a serious investment in equipment, and learning how to use it. They are very unlikely to behave in a fashion that will end up with them getting arrested, kicked out of somewhere, or having their gear seized while a court case proceeds. As a general rule, the folks here are a more thoughtful bunch... cerebral even... </div></div>


That and add to the fact that many of us have a ton into reloading equipment and supplies and would never leave brass on the ground because we reuse it over and over again...You ever walk away from a pile of Lapua brass, Hell no

 

[cloudy]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I hope the bid to gain access goes well. About a year ago some green diamond logging equipment was vandalized near the sherwood forest area, accross hwy 3, smashed windows, batteries stolen, ect. In the past few months I've seen some gravel pit areas that have been open for years get blocked off. Probably due to all the garbage bumping.

 

[Muttt]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Having some people with rifles around (that are really good shots) may damper some of the vandalism ..... LOL.

 

[cloudy]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Just an FYI, but I believe this deal went through and all the land in question is now protected again future development.

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2011/aug/17/deal-could-protect-18000-acres-of-forest-in/?print=1

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Lol... I can buy 160 cleared acreage in Quincy for $32K...

 

[A D]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Hi guys, figured I would Introduce my self. I met Broker at the Unsc a couple weeks back. anyhow I would be very happy to find a local(not eastern wa) match or An informal group shoot. locally,i am limited to a 550 yard range and i would like to stretch my legs a bit.

 

[Unknown]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Broker and I fired on a great spot outside of Acme that went out to 1250 yards.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AD1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi guys, figured I would Introduce my self. I met Broker at the Unsc a couple weeks back. anyhow I would be very happy to find a local(not eastern wa) match or An informal group shoot. locally,i am limited to a 550 yard range and i would like to stretch my legs a bit. </div></div>

Hey Man! Welcome! We definitely need to get your AI out and beyond that 550...

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I just got off the phone with the Green Diamond Resource Group regarding the use of their properties. The gentleman I spoke with was very courteous and upfront about their issues. I guess they were recently sued about lead contaminates for allowing a Gun Club to lease one of their properties for a range. The gentleman understands our plight though and is willing to work with me and his management to find a solution as he himself enjoys shooting. So here's our options...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Option A:</span> We only use all copper and no lead. Not really an option IMO as that would get real expensive real fast and for some of us looking to use factory ammo it's definitely too expensive.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Option B: </span>We only fire at AR500 and <span style="font-weight: bold">we have to use some form of lead trap</span>. I think this is the most plausible option, but I don't know enough about creating lead traps to know what it would take. I do know however that we would have access to several areas that range from 100-1000+ in Mason County as well as roads that would get us into areas of DNR land not usually accessible by vehicle.

They would also require a $200 yearly access fee and a release of liability form signed.

I still need to get in contact with DNR to try and see what inroads can be made there as well. One issue that I need to address though is the formation of a more formal organization/group for more visible credentials.

 

[A D]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Good work! 200 seems reasonable. If the trap is something we can build I would be willing to pay a portion of the materials and help put it together.

 

[cloudy]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

This sound promising. I have a couple questions. Would this be a group fee of $200 or per person? Would ther be multiple keys given out? I'm sure we can come up with something to trap the lead. I'm also willing to donate time and some cash to make it happen. I also have a few larue style steel plates we can use. I can also get some deals on ar500 plate through work and can have them laser cut to any size. Thanks for working on this Broker.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I think it would be a group fee, but I can double check. As for the key I think we'd only get 1, but again I'd need to check. The gentlemen said I needed to see what the group though first and he was going to speak with his management and this would be strictly a "recreational" thing since they don't want to deal with environmental groups claiming lead poisoning issues. It's all at the beginning stages of being worked out. The first step now is determining the lead trap needed.

Anyone please post up any and all info on lead traps available as the more knowledge I have the better armed I am to discuss it with them and put our best foot forward.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Just got off the phone again...
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]$200 Group Fee[*]Catastrophic Insurance Against Accidental Death[*]Release Liability Waiver[*]They reserve the right to terminate the use at any time[/list]
He recommended we create a formal group. I'm also going to meet with him next week some time and he is going to show me an area 45 minutes from Shelton near the base of the Olympic's that the Mason County Sheriff's Dept SWAT Snipers are allowed use for practice. He stated we would have to work with them if need be to not interfere with their practice time. In essence we would be given a broad range of areas to use as long as they're not near developments or anywhere that would create safety concerns or public relations issues. Their properties though extend throughout WA and usually share roads with DNR, so we would be able to access certain DNR areas that are normally inaccessible accept by foot for several miles.

 

[cloudy]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I'll do some research over the weekend on lead traps and try to come up with some ideas. As far as the key issue, it would be nice to have a few. That way you can get access when the one key holder is not around. And I'm sure ther would be some sort of list of people who can be out there who have singed waivers. Did you talk to them about one area in particular? I think it would be a good idea to get a map going of the area and where we would put target stations. I might head out there this weekend and check out the Sherwood forest area and get a better idea of what the area looks like.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I've talked to them about several areas including the above posted Area 1 & 2 photo. We would likely have access to areas all around WA it sounds like though.

The key access issue will need worked out. I'm not keen on getting a bunch of keys and handing them out though. This has to be organized in order to maintain the access and not have them pull our access. It won't be something where someone can just decide they're going to head out whenever as an individual and go shooting since we have to carry insurance and that insurance has limitations on use. I'm putting my name out there as the front man on this and should anything go wrong I'll end up taking the brunt of the damage right now. There's a lot of caveats that need worked out, but I'm sure we'll get something going so access won't be limited by lack of availability. I'm going to spend the next week focusing on seeing what it takes to start a "Precision Rifle Sports Group" of some form and how we're going to do memberships, dues, etc to maintain it with minimal costs so we can put our money towards the sport itself. I'll be upfront though in that I have no clue on how to start this so please be patient as I try and work it out. We also still need the the Green Diamond Group to get management approval also.

Feel free to throw out group name suggestions. I'm thinking...
"Puget Sound Precision Rifle Group"

 

[cloudy]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Feel free to throw out group name suggestions. I'm thinking...
"Puget Sound Precision Rifle Group"
</div></div>

Iol I like that name. The machine shop I work at is called Puget Sound Precision.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Great work Broker, I am proud of you. Would starting a trust club membership work?

 

[Unknown]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Puget Sound Precision Rifle Group = PSPRG
Puget Sound Precision Shooters = PSPS
Sound Area Precision Shooters = SAPS (I don't think so)

I'm fine with Brokers initial suggestion of Puget Sound Precision Rifle Group

If we are trying to gain access to various locations, I think it would be smart to avoid using "hot words" like "tactical", "combat" ,"sniper", "hunters", "militia", "partisans", and so on. Using words that seem less likely to get someone thinking negative things will probably help us out.

A group with a name like Puget Sound Tactical Snipers Group would be far less likely to get past the first hurdle than the name Broker suggested.

 

[AtOne]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Good job Broker !

I would think that instead of offering up a bunch of keys as an open show up anytime you want to shoot deal.
It may be better as a group to determine a schedule of days to shoot each month and who ever has the key has to make sure to either show up or give it to someone who's going to be there.

I'm sure that proposing scheduled and organized shooting times to them would also show that this isn't just a bunch of good old boys with six packs who want to tear shit up.

I like the idea of the range that the Leo's are using, My question to the Green Diamond company is what are they using for bullet traps ?
If they do have something out there already would they be willing to let us use it in exchange for some maintenance days or some other time invested help ?

Bullet traps from what I'm reading would be difficult to do especially at the distances we're talking about, that and the fact that we'll be shooting steel which wants to splatter the lead when it hits. Containment could be tough to work out.

Here's a interesting read on bullet traps.

http://www.actiontarget.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Bullet-Trap-Comparisons.pdf

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I'll donate my time and probably more importantly, my equipment. I have a pretty big generator welder and I weld, so if someone is willing to load my welder, myself and my other equipment into their truck, I will be happy to head out and weld up target stands, etc... on site. If the lead trap is something that needs to just catch the dross from hits against the plates, I'm sure I could weld something up on site if we could get the metal purchased and out to the location.

I'd also be happy to build some benches, overhanging covers, etc... as needed.

One other thing we should think about is how to setup a "do not shoot" marker (eg. something that can be flipped or something so that if someone is hiking down to the targets, anyone who shows up in the meantime knows not to shoot down range.

Just let me know...I'm in and heck, I'll even cover the $200 group fee just to get us going.

--Wintermute

 

[bottom_gun]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Broker,
Many thanks. I'm in. Just let me know how I can help. I'm off all weekend and have a rangefinder and a pair of boots if anyone's going scouting.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I don't think the LEO are using traps. We're not LE though, so they need to cover their ass legally since they already have been dealing with a suit which none of us can blame them lol. The Rep knows that on impact the bullets liquify and vaporize. He mentioned something like a "Sand Trap" maybe which leads me to believe they're looking for something like an angled steel target and large basin under to catch the falling frags.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

This is a Forum so... lol...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3197138&#Post3197138

 

[Unknown]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

I like AtOne's ideas about setting a specific day to be there because of the "stability, responsibility" etc that being regular would show. Giving some time back to do maintainence, paint, or something for the property owner also shows that we are not just a "one way" group only out for what we can get out of the deal.

The lead issue has come up before, and it is a very serious, and valid concern. Douglas Ridge rifle club outside of Estacada, Oregon had to deal with a similar issue.

If we built some kind of trap, it would have to completely surround the steel we shoot on as on impact the bullets would liquify and spread out over 360 degrees of the impact.

1. At long distance, it would be unreasonable to expect every bullet to hit inside the bullet trap unless it was huge.
2. A bullet trap that would cover 360 degrees around the steel target would weigh more than what we would want to carry.

It would make more sense if we could work out with the owners an agreement that we only shoot at certain impact areas. This way, of course would limit our target placement, but it would get around the bullet trap issue.

I would be willing to help out with the work that would be done to generate good will between us and the property owner.

 

[Muttt]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Bullet traps need to catch the misses too??????


My fear would be them wanting to sue us after we have shot there for a year or two or have us do some kind of environmental impact study or some crap like that and then stick the shooters with the bill/law suite/environmental bill.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like AtOne's ideas about setting a specific day to be there because of the "stability, responsibility" etc that being regular would show. Giving some time back to do maintenance, paint, or something for the property owner also shows that we are not just a "one way" group only out for what we can get out of the deal.

The lead issue has come up before, and it is a very serious, and valid concern. Douglas Ridge rifle club outside of Estacada, Oregon had to deal with a similar issue.

If we built some kind of trap, it would have to completely surround the steel we shoot on as on impact the bullets would liquify and spread out over 360 degrees of the impact.

1. At long distance, it would be unreasonable to expect every bullet to hit inside the bullet trap unless it was huge.
2. A bullet trap that would cover 360 degrees around the steel target would weigh more than what we would want to carry.

It would make more sense if we could work out with the owners an agreement that we only shoot at certain impact areas. This way, of course would limit our target placement, but it would get around the bullet trap issue.

I would be willing to help out with the work that would be done to generate good will between us and the property owner. </div></div>

This isn't a goodwill issue but a business liability issue in which the business at hand has already been sued and lost to the tune of a million dollar+. We don't have a choice in the lead trap other than shooting only copper bullets which is definitely not a cost effective option.

 

[Unknown]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

At the cost of copper only bullet ammo, it would almost be cost effective to buy and build our own range! Of course, that is an exaggeration, but at around $2 per shot, a match could get really spendy fast.

I wonder if we had a bullet trap that was close to the size of our targets would be acceptable. Sure, if the trap was 12x12 inches and we had a 10 inch circle plate inside it, technically we have a bullet trap. However, if we put the trap and target out at 850 yards, I am pretty sure that a few bullets would miss the trap.

A 10 inch plate could fit inside a box 12x12. If the box were assembled with slots and tabs, and a slit in top to mount the target, it would be fairly easy to put together.

JCvibby's 12x12 plates are $40 each. If we asked to have the plates cut so with slots and tabs it would understandably increase the cost...5 of the 12x12 plates would cost us $200 before having any custom modifications, and they would be heavy too. So, each plate and trap box would run around $300 for the smaller plates. But that is only one plate, and having 5-10 for a course of fire gets really spendy.

I think maybe if we keep looking, it might be lots cheaper.

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Here's an idea. What about a gravel burm. Targets would be setup in front of it and we could put a lead catch under the targets? Something relatively simple to assemble on site made out of long slats of steel which would bolt to a steel box...I'll draw a picture shortly

.

That way the burm could be pulled out to remove the lead stuck in it if need be. The pan underneath could be cleaned out as needed in order to remove lead dross from it.

That would be relatively portable (say three guys to carry the steel out to assemble the pan). We'd have to be able to get at least a bobcat out to the target point in order to build the burm though.

What do you think?

--Wintermute

 

[Wintermute]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Here's what I'm thinking. Made out of hot rolled steel this should cost around $200 (if you're buying 20' sticks of it direct from a supplier like I would). It's not shown here, but each slat and the box itself would bolt together so that they'd be transportable to the site and then assembled. The slats themselves are 1/4" thick. This could also be used tilted up behind the targets as a catch, but you'd have to change the material to actually handle a hit from a round. Probably A36 steel at minimum and move it up in thickness to 1/2".

This whole thing would be pretty easy to make. Probably figure around 2 hours to cut everything, maybe another couple of hours to weld up ends and then an hour of drilling holes.

--Wintermute

 

[Unknown]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

It isn't just the lead that many environmentalists complain about. It is also the water runoff from rain that goes over the lead. That means that we would have to assemble, clean out, and disassemble the traps every time they are used.

I would really like a place to shoot, but having to deal with bullet traps seems like it is a convenient way to say they will grant permission, while the reality of it is that requiring bullet/lead traps makes the logistics of such devices a nearly impossible to meet requirement.

I think we might be better served by finding a different place to shoot, or word our request in a different manner.

If we request permission for a large gathering (match), they might want lead traps. If we request a place for a few people to shoot, we might get away from the requirement.

Then, once the property owners realize that we aren't bubbas who show up with firearms, beer, and appliances to destroy and leave there, the owners might ease up on requirements for traps, or the size of the gatherings.

Has anyone heard from the people who said they had places to shoot near Allen, and Belfair yet?

I'm wondering if such a place exists, or if they are places where we would have to hike in a significant distance with all our gear. It could also be possible that although one or two fellows manage to get away with shooting there, these are actually areas where no one is supposed to be shooting. I would be very interested to find out more about these areas, but so far, no one has been willing to come forward with the information. Hence my wondering if these are lawful sites that actually exist.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

We'd have to hike into the areas suggested earlier.

We aren't going to change their opinion based on who we are since their opinion of us isn't negative. They have no choice but to request some form of lead trap to avoid a future suit against them. The gentleman I'm working with is well aware of what we do and endorses it, but he's limited by what his company can allow to protect themselves legally which he rightfully should be. I'll call him again this week and bring up the issue regarding the lead traps and misses. Unfortunately we're in an area where developers want to push out shooters to sell houses and they'll use the EPA at every corner to get their way. Of course the EPA never seems to notice illegal activities from the developers...

I still need to speak with DNR. We're allowed to shoot on their land, but the only safe and appropriate areas are past gates.

 

[Unknown]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Then the trick is to figure out how to get a key to the gates. We have scouted the area, and know which gates we want access through. The next problem is getting access through the gates.

If we did get the gate key for an informal shoot, we could all meet at the gate at the proscribed time, go through the gate, then lock it behind us. Post the warning signs that Broker says he can get for us, then set up the steel to shoot. As long as we post the signs at every road or train into the area and continually monitor it to insure no living creatures are endangered, it might work out.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wintermute</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's what I'm thinking. Made out of hot rolled steel this should cost around $200 (if you're buying 20' sticks of it direct from a supplier like I would). It's not shown here, but each slat and the box itself would bolt together so that they'd be transportable to the site and then assembled. The slats themselves are 1/4" thick. This could also be used tilted up behind the targets as a catch, but you'd have to change the material to actually handle a hit from a round. Probably A36 steel at minimum and move it up in thickness to 1/2".

This whole thing would be pretty easy to make. Probably figure around 2 hours to cut everything, maybe another couple of hours to weld up ends and then an hour of drilling holes.

--Wintermute </div></div>

Looks nice W. I'll try and get better logistics on what we need exactly later this week. I hadn't thought about the flyers and such when I spoke to him earlier. Hopefully I can get an idea of exactly what they want as far as area covered. If we need to make berms then I don't think that will be allowable since they don't want it to look like we're using it as a range but more as a recreational shoot.


Everyone needs to bare with me on the logistics of everything. This has become more complicated than I had hoped, but I'm willing to put in some time from my schedule to try and work it through so we can get some nice honey holes that were unreachable previously...

 

[Muttt]

Re: Puget Sound Area Shooter's Group

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't faulting the company that owns the land. I would probably want the same thing if I were them. I was just thinking about what could happen later if we were to form some kind of formal group. We (anyone shooting there) could easily find ourselves on the hook for lead contamination or the like (if our lead trap isn't up to par).

A thought about catching the flyers would be to set up a wall of sorts made from stacked logs that are thick enough to catch all bullets that don't hit the targets. That way, when all is said and done, all you have to do to get rid of the lead is cut up the logs and hall them away. Split them up off site and toss them into a bon fire somewhere. That way, it doesn't look like a range and still prevents flyers contaminating the area.