Rantings of a lunatic....or audiophile ?

[n2ishun]

Just working on a new project that I probably shouldn't be, but fuck it, I'm doing it anyway.

It all started because I needed to put in a back-up camera in my truck because I can't turn my head so easily these days to see what's in my blind spots....and shit.
So, I got a Kenwood Excelon DMX709S head unit and installed it, it's capable of running 3 separate camera inputs.
It's also very high powered and let me know right away that my existing speakers, well, sucked the drippings from a decayed donkey dick.
So then, shopping my ass off found a set of Morel Virtus component speakers for the front (no, not the "nano" flat ones, the real Morel MW classic drivers made in Israel).
Those speakers should be arriving tomorrow.
Been spending an hour or two here and there getting everything sound dampened.....crazy amounts of it.
I found some Siless branded shit on Scamazon for pretty much dirt cheap and bought about 90 sq ft of both 50 and 80 mil (1 box of each) for right at $100.
The same in Dynamat would have cost an easy $500 so it was a no brainer.....but it's made in Kazakhstan ? WTF, never seen anything made there...whatever.
After probably 4-5 hours of installing the damping shit....well, I have the drivers door done.
No kidding, it's a very time consuming thing to do.
I'm not going to rush this, it will be a flawless install by the time I'm done....whenever that is.

I've installed a flush mounted USB port from the head unit so I don't have a dangling cord to either connect my cellphone to for Android Auto/Nav, or use for a jump drive filled with audio files.
I updated the firmware and software in the head unit.
I installed the Sirius/XM unit that mates with the head unit but don't know if I'll get the activation for it, whatever, it's installed and working.

I'd like to get a class A/B 4 channel amp to use 2 channels for the Morels and bridge the 2 rears for a sub.
JL Audio no longer makes a class A/B that I can find (they were outstanding amps as I've had a 300/4 back in the day) so, well, fuck JL I guess.
What I'm currently looking at is *maybe* Zapco, the Morel 4 channel, Mosconi (?), or something similar in class A/B 4 channel with ~about~ 70-100 watts RMS @ 4 ohms for the fronts and ~about~ 200 watts RMS bridged for the sub.
Will be building my own sub box and am thinking about 2 of the Dayton 7" "Epique" drivers wired to a 4 ohm load.
Since those are dual voice coil with each coil 4 ohm I'll be able to wire them to 8, 4, or 1 ohm load on the amp....I might be able to even get a 2 ohm if I get sneaky.

Anyone have any input on a GOOD 4 channel amp that's class AB, doesn't cost a bazillion bucks, sounds good, and isn't some whimpy "mini" amp with those cheezy snap in connections ?
Because class D amps sound like ass IMHO, no headroom, no dynamics, not worthy of being in my vehicular escape mechanism.

 

[Serenitynow]

What vehicle ?
Where's the sub box going ?
Stock alternator and wiring ? What size power and grounds for the amp ? What size inline fuse ?
Why 7" " subs " instead of something else ?
What specific model of Morel speakers ? I assume you're going to run them passively ? You'll probably be happier giving them more than 70-100 watts whichever model they are. Remember, headroom is a GOOD thing.
Why a single 4-channel amp instead of separate amps for fronts and sub stage ?
How are you mounting the speakers ? IB ( in doors ) ? Enclosures ?
I'm sorry - but your headunit is by no means " high powered " . No offense. No headunit is.

Lots of things to consider here.

 

[Cardboard55]

A pair of these plus a stout inverter.

Amp Camp Amp

The world famous Amp Camp Amp kit!

diyaudiostore.com

 

[Makinchips208]

You are worried about a class a/b amplifier and you are running cheap Daytons from china?

Why not buy a turn key system from Focal or something like that?

One top quality sub will sound way better than 2 cheaper subs of the same size.

 

[n2ishun]

What vehicle ?

[/QUOTE]
Mine, of course.
Doesn't matter if it's a Lambo, a cuz worthy Escalade, or a double sleeper Semi truck.
I'm not building the vehicle.

Where's the sub box going ?

[/QUOTE]
Inside, obviously.......or is it ?

Stock alternator and wiring ? What size power and grounds for the amp ? What size inline fuse ?

Now how would I know the wiring size if I don't have the amp....or for that matter, the fuse size ?

Why 7" " subs " instead of something else ?

[/QUOTE]
Because I'm not 14 years old and I don't need thump.
I also do not listen to ghetto Nigerian music.
Fast and clean with plenty of extension, quality, not quantity.

What specific model of Morel speakers ? I assume you're going to run them passively ? You'll probably be happier giving them more than 70-100 watts whichever model they are. Remember, headroom is a GOOD thing.

I listed the model twice.
Never heard of Morel before huh ?

Why a single 4-channel amp instead of separate amps for fronts and sub stage ?

Because I'm not 14 years old as I stated.
A single 4 channel amp is plenty for me.
I do not want Nigerian ghetto shit.....got it ?

How are you mounting the speakers ? IB ( in doors ) ? Enclosures ?

With the correct fasteners, be serious will you ?

I'm sorry - but your headunit is by no means " high powered " . No offense. No headunit is.

Then you know nothing about the Kenwood Excelons.
A very conservative 20 watts RMS (real RMS) amp section resides within with plenty of headroom, check spewtube or something, more real power than any other head unit I know of.
It also has 3 sets of 5V outputs.
It is not a WalMart model.

Lots of things to consider here.

Indeed

If I could find a Peerless 12" XLS sub I would already have it
A Morel ultima is way out of my budget.
Maybe a ScanSpeak...dunno yet.

 

[Maggot]

Spending money on car stereo?

Lunatic.

 

[Cardboard55]

Spending money on car stereo?

Lunatic.

But the babes dig it!

 

[AngryKoala]

Just working on a new project that I probably shouldn't be, but fuck it, I'm doing it anyway.

It all started because I needed to put in a back-up camera in my truck because I can't turn my head so easily these days to see what's in my blind spots....and shit.
So, I got a Kenwood Excelon DMX709S head unit and installed it, it's capable of running 3 separate camera inputs.
It's also very high powered and let me know right away that my existing speakers, well, sucked the drippings from a decayed donkey dick.
So then, shopping my ass off found a set of Morel Virtus component speakers for the front (no, not the "nano" flat ones, the real Morel MW classic drivers made in Israel).
Those speakers should be arriving tomorrow.
Been spending an hour or two here and there getting everything sound dampened.....crazy amounts of it.
I found some Siless branded shit on Scamazon for pretty much dirt cheap and bought about 90 sq ft of both 50 and 80 mil (1 box of each) for right at $100.
The same in Dynamat would have cost an easy $500 so it was a no brainer.....but it's made in Kazakhstan ? WTF, never seen anything made there...whatever.
After probably 4-5 hours of installing the damping shit....well, I have the drivers door done.
No kidding, it's a very time consuming thing to do.
I'm not going to rush this, it will be a flawless install by the time I'm done....whenever that is.

I've installed a flush mounted USB port from the head unit so I don't have a dangling cord to either connect my cellphone to for Android Auto/Nav, or use for a jump drive filled with audio files.
I updated the firmware and software in the head unit.
I installed the Sirius/XM unit that mates with the head unit but don't know if I'll get the activation for it, whatever, it's installed and working.

I'd like to get a class A/B 4 channel amp to use 2 channels for the Morels and bridge the 2 rears for a sub.
JL Audio no longer makes a class A/B that I can find (they were outstanding amps as I've had a 300/4 back in the day) so, well, fuck JL I guess.
What I'm currently looking at is *maybe* Zapco, the Morel 4 channel, Mosconi (?), or something similar in class A/B 4 channel with ~about~ 70-100 watts RMS @ 4 ohms for the fronts and ~about~ 200 watts RMS bridged for the sub.
Will be building my own sub box and am thinking about 2 of the Dayton 7" "Epique" drivers wired to a 4 ohm load.
Since those are dual voice coil with each coil 4 ohm I'll be able to wire them to 8, 4, or 1 ohm load on the amp....I might be able to even get a 2 ohm if I get sneaky.

Anyone have any input on a GOOD 4 channel amp that's class AB, doesn't cost a bazillion bucks, sounds good, and isn't some whimpy "mini" amp with those cheezy snap in connections ?
Because class D amps sound like ass IMHO, no headroom, no dynamics, not worthy of being in my vehicular escape mechanism.

"Decayed donkey dick"

That's a new one to add to the book.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Neither lunatic or audiophile are mutually exclusive.

 

[Serenitynow]

I was going to try to help with this.
You have it all figured out tho it seems.
I'M OUT

 

[Bullfrog08]

I was going to try to help with this.
You have it all figured out tho it seems.
I'M OUT

He didn't really want anyone's help, just posting to flex his geriatric knowledge of car stereo shit he probably did in the early 80s.

 

[chevy_man]

He didn't really want anyone's help, just posting to flex his geriatric knowledge of car stereo shit he probably did in the early 80s.

The high powered head unit was the dead giveaway.


I have an infinity 125x2 on a pair of audio frog 6.5s, and a JL500/1 on an infinity kappa 10".

I consider that a "low powered" driving around system at a low cost.


For wiring I ran 2ga welding cable from Napa. Slightly lower strand count than "car audio" cable, but actually measures true to size. Distribution blocks within 8" of each amp keep the voltage drop basically non-existant. Voltage never bounces like my last truck with a 4ga stereo shop kit.

 

[IronSkillet]

Have you tried Soundstream Technologies for that amp?

 

[Maggot]

The high powered head unit was the dead giveaway.


I have an infinity 125x2 on a pair of audio frog 6.5s, and a JL500/1 on an infinity kappa 10".

I consider that a "low powered" driving around system at a low cost.


For wiring I ran 2ga welding cable from Napa. Slightly lower strand count than "car audio" cable, but actually measures true to size. Distribution blocks within 8" of each amp keep the voltage drop basically non-existant. Voltage never bounces like my last truck with a 4ga stereo shop kit.

Though not a likely factor in car audio, in true high end audio the quality of the copper makes a large difference. What you get in those welding cables is large diameter but low quality. Ok for voltage but not good for signal. I have some old wire from early (1920-30's) Western Electric phone boards. the copper has an reddish color to it, (not .oxidation). The sound is smoother than what you get today except in rare instances. It's not just the copper, they would pull it through the reducing dies at a slower speed which reduced skin heat/crystallization. The signal actually travels along the surface of the wire. Today you can get pure copper but still not the quality of the old stuff. They improve it by coating it with a thin layer of pure silver which adds speed, or more accurately doesnt reduce the speed, or the signal as much. It aslo extends the high frequencies, or again, doesnt reduce them.

I've got a box of popcorn waiting thats says specifically 'i2ishun' ready and waiting.

 

[vinniedelpino]

You are worried about a class a/b amplifier and you are running cheap Daytons from china?

Why not buy a turn key system from Focal or something like that?

One top quality sub will sound way better than 2 cheaper subs of the same size.

A lot of audiophiles are running multiple Dayton Ultimax 18"+ subs with rave reviews.

Subs are weird. Trying to get uniform bass response with a single sub isn't easy. Two or more significantly improve phase cancellation issues in a less than ideal listening space with less than ideal speaker placement. I don't know a damn thing about car audio, but in a room I'd usually opt for multiple cheaper units over a single unit at the same price point.

Also... there's no replacement for displacement. I'd rather have a mid tier 15" or 18" over a top of the line 10" any day.

 

[The D]

Will all this fancy schmancy stereo lingo make my Audible books sound amazeballs?

 

[Makinchips208]

A lot of audiophiles are running multiple Dayton Ultimax 18"+ subs with rave reviews.

Subs are weird. Trying to get uniform bass response with a single sub isn't easy. Two or more significantly improve phase cancellation issues in a less than ideal listening space with less than ideal speaker placement. I don't know a damn thing about car audio, but in a room I'd usually opt for multiple cheaper units over a single unit at the same price point.

Also... there's no replacement for displacement. I'd rather have a mid tier 15" or 18" over a top of the line 10" any day.

I agree with you, and I know very little about home audio.
However, In car audio one JL Audio 8W7 is gonna sound leaps and bounds better than a couple Dayton epique 7 that the op wants.
30% more excursion, 250% more RMS power capacity.

8W7AE-3

10th Anniversary Edition - W7 8-inch Subwoofer (500 W, 3 Ω) This Subwoofer has been called the "best damn 8-inch subwoofer ever made" for its remarkable performance capabilities and design attributes. An impressive linear excursion envelope that exceeds 0.75 in. (19 mm) one-way allows it to...

www.jlaudio.com

But yeah I’m a dual 12s kind of guy myself.

 

[chevy_man]

Though not a likely factor in car audio, in true high end audio the quality of the copper makes a large difference. What you get in those welding cables is large diameter but low quality. Ok for voltage but not good for signal. I have some old wire from early (1920-30's) Western Electric phone boards. the copper has an reddish color to it, (not .oxidation). The sound is smoother than what you get today except in rare instances. It's not just the copper, they would pull it through the reducing dies at a slower speed which reduced skin heat/crystallization. The signal actually travels along the surface of the wire. Today you can get pure copper but still not the quality of the old stuff. They improve it by coating it with a thin layer of pure silver which adds speed, or more accurately doesnt reduce the speed, or the signal as much. It aslo extends the high frequencies, or again, doesnt reduce them.

I've got a box of popcorn waiting thats says specifically 'i2ishun' ready and waiting.

Funny thing, the welding cable I bought is actually fairly red. Always wondered why I'd get wildly different colored copper.

And none of that matters to power the amps with 14v DC...




I have silver plated oxygen free 10ga and 8 ga speaker cable from the amps to the speakers.

 

[chevy_man]

I agree with you, and I know very little about home audio.
However, In car audio one JL Audio 8W7 is gonna sound leaps and bounds better than a couple Dayton epique 7 that the op wants.
30% more excursion, 250% more RMS power capacity.

8W7AE-3

10th Anniversary Edition - W7 8-inch Subwoofer (500 W, 3 Ω) This Subwoofer has been called the "best damn 8-inch subwoofer ever made" for its remarkable performance capabilities and design attributes. An impressive linear excursion envelope that exceeds 0.75 in. (19 mm) one-way allows it to...

www.jlaudio.com

But yeah I’m a dual 12s kind of guy myself.

Their 13w7 actually sounds awesome and smooth with sane power. With stupid power it will rattle your teeth loose.

Great sub to put in a well designed ported enclosure if you can spare the space.

 

[Makinchips208]

Their 13w7 actually sounds awesome and smooth with sane power. With stupid power it will rattle your teeth loose.

Great sub to put in a well designed ported enclosure if you can spare the space.

Haha! Yeah it will knock body parts loose!

 

[Jigstick]

The JLw7 series sound phenomenal. Crisp snappy kick with the ability to grunt low and loud. Clarity is fantastic. The Sundown subs seem slightly louder but more muttled

 

[n2ishun]

I agree with you, and I know very little about home audio.
However, In car audio one JL Audio 8W7 is gonna sound leaps and bounds better than a couple Dayton epique 7 that the op wants.
30% more excursion, 250% more RMS power capacity.

8W7AE-3

10th Anniversary Edition - W7 8-inch Subwoofer (500 W, 3 Ω) This Subwoofer has been called the "best damn 8-inch subwoofer ever made" for its remarkable performance capabilities and design attributes. An impressive linear excursion envelope that exceeds 0.75 in. (19 mm) one-way allows it to...

www.jlaudio.com

But yeah I’m a dual 12s kind of guy myself.

The thing is, I actually understand the "Thiele-Small" parameters and know how to utilize them.
The "FS" (or frequency of resonance) on that sub is about 35 hz.....I want, and need something much lower, 28hz or less with a "VAS" of under 30 litres or so. QTS and QMS do not matter to me as they can be manipulated via cabinet design....you can't change the FS or the VAS by trickery.
2 of those Epique 7" subs will hang with that JL on power all day long, and can use a smaller cabinet, dig ?
I could give a flying fuck about a companies reputation, what matters is how they perform.

As I stated earlier, if money was no object I would buy a 12" Morel Titanium Ultima and call it a day.
It is the best SQ sub made that is available.....unlike Adire, which is never available.
You do know about Adire subs, right ?
They invented long stroke subs and are the innovators of the design and make shit like...

CLEARANCE Adire Audio ADBX15D2 BrahmaX 15" XBL DVC Subwoofer

Adire Audio ADBX15D2 BrahmaX 15" XBL DVC SubwooferAdire Audio ADBX15D2 BrahmaX 15" XBL DVC SubwooferThe ultimate solution for ultra high excursion, linearity and low distortionThe 2021 Brahma X Mk2, previously known as the Brahma Extreme, has a rich history of setting records many years ago in...

www.parts-express.com

Space is a concern for me, I want small.
1 cu ft is larger than I want, .4 or less is where I want to be with the box.
Yea I could get fancy and build a folded horn enclosure or a 7th order bandpass....but why ?
K.I.S.S. ya follow ?

I could also go multiple amps and run a stand alone DSP and I am very comfortable tuning one.
Again, why ?
I can manipulate a passive crossover just as well....time alignment, simple a few caps and resistors, done....change the slope, add an inductor and another cap, done.
I am in no way new at this but I am unfamiliar with the current market of amplifiers out right now.
If I could find a McIntosh 4 channel I would be happy as hell.....likewise a gen 2 or 3 JL 300/4.
But alas, they don't currently make an amp that will hang with either of those.....and I can hear the difference.

BTW, wire.
You're looking for OFC (oxygen free copper) and it's available, but costs more.
Most of the shit you see is CCA or copper coated aluminum and it is for shit.
Welding cables like "Belden" are MUCH better for power cables than something like Monster or JL or even Focal.
Ya see, they are made for heat, are higher quality copper, are finer stranded (inductance matters) and don't jack the price because brand name.

 

[n2ishun]

Here's a cheat sheet for you guys to keep it simple.
Regarding VAS...
You can roughly figure the cabinet size by halving the VAS.....roughly, but it's a valid call.

FS
You can get a bit lower than the FS in output, but it's going to take a huge cabinet.
Figure FS as the lowest frequency the driver will hit.
Yes, I am aware of cabin gain.

Xmax
That is 1/2 of the full stroke distance, it is measured "1 way".
Xmax matters.

Watts RMS
Max wattage does NOT matter.
Watts RMS continuous (IEC) is the only thing that matters.

I'm not a kid, I probably will never exceed 100db even when I'm listening to a good song and am "cranking it".
That is loud enough for almost everyone. Yes 120 and up can get very painful....and I'm not into masochism.

 

[Maggot]

I'm not into masochism.

Then why do you keep posting here

 

[Jigstick]

Two 7in subs ain’t hanging with a properly powered JL 13 W 7. No fucking way.

 

[n2ishun]

Two 7in subs ain’t hanging with a properly powered JL 13 W 7. No fucking way.

I didn't say that 2 x $125 subs could hang with a 13" $1800 sub did I ?
I said 2 x $125 subs could hang with a 8" JL $500 sub....and they can, easily.

The Morel Ultimo 12" CAN hang with the 13" JL W7.
But, both take massive amounts of power, both take big bucks, and both take large cabinets to work.

I would personally take the Peerless XLS 12" over any of them.
It doesn't take the power levels, but will run flat to ~about~ 15hz in a tiny box....like .6 cu ft which is unheard of for a 12" sub.
Only problem, they no longer make them.
This is about as close to the Peerless as you'll find.....and it still takes a bigger box to run.

Seas L26RO4Y 10" Subwoofer - 4 Layer VC - (D1004-04)

Seas L26RO4Y-D0004 subwoofer used in Linkwitz Orion 3-way speaker.

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

 

[EddieNFL]

You kids and your loud stereos. I may be a boomer, but my Starkey hearing aids have the latest technology available.

 

[Maggot]

You kids and your loud stereos. I may be a boomer, but my Starkey hearing aids have the latest technology available.

LOL, I was just thinking what polar opposites Audio and things that make really loud bangs are. I had GREAT hearing until...Barrett m82-1

 

[Makinchips208]

The thing is, I actually understand the "Thiele-Small" parameters and know how to utilize them.
The "FS" (or frequency of resonance) on that sub is about 35 hz.....I want, and need something much lower, 28hz or less with a "VAS" of under 30 litres or so. QTS and QMS do not matter to me as they can be manipulated via cabinet design....you can't change the FS or the VAS by trickery.
2 of those Epique 7" subs will hang with that JL on power all day long, and can use a smaller cabinet, dig ?
I could give a flying fuck about a companies reputation, what matters is how they perform.

As I stated earlier, if money was no object I would buy a 12" Morel Titanium Ultima and call it a day.
It is the best SQ sub made that is available.....unlike Adire, which is never available.
You do know about Adire subs, right ?
They invented long stroke subs and are the innovators of the design and make shit like...

CLEARANCE Adire Audio ADBX15D2 BrahmaX 15" XBL DVC Subwoofer

Adire Audio ADBX15D2 BrahmaX 15" XBL DVC SubwooferAdire Audio ADBX15D2 BrahmaX 15" XBL DVC SubwooferThe ultimate solution for ultra high excursion, linearity and low distortionThe 2021 Brahma X Mk2, previously known as the Brahma Extreme, has a rich history of setting records many years ago in...

www.parts-express.com

Space is a concern for me, I want small.
1 cu ft is larger than I want, .4 or less is where I want to be with the box.
Yea I could get fancy and build a folded horn enclosure or a 7th order bandpass....but why ?
K.I.S.S. ya follow ?

I could also go multiple amps and run a stand alone DSP and I am very comfortable tuning one.
Again, why ?
I can manipulate a passive crossover just as well....time alignment, simple a few caps and resistors, done....change the slope, add an inductor and another cap, done.
I am in no way new at this but I am unfamiliar with the current market of amplifiers out right now.
If I could find a McIntosh 4 channel I would be happy as hell.....likewise a gen 2 or 3 JL 300/4.
But alas, they don't currently make an amp that will hang with either of those.....and I can hear the difference.

BTW, wire.
You're looking for OFC (oxygen free copper) and it's available, but costs more.
Most of the shit you see is CCA or copper coated aluminum and it is for shit.
Welding cables like "Belden" are MUCH better for power cables than something like Monster or JL or even Focal.
Ya see, they are made for heat, are higher quality copper, are finer stranded (inductance matters) and don't jack the price because brand name.

Good deal Shaquille. I made the mistake of thinking you wanted input. Didn’t know you were only looking to brag about the new system you are building. But good for you, I do wish you the best.
From the sounds of it why don’t you save yourself a lot of time and money and just install a Bose Wave Radio on your dashboard and run it off an inverter, it would probably sound just as good. You have heard of Bose right?

 

[JBoomhauer]

Good deal Shaquille. I made the mistake of thinking you wanted input. Didn’t know you were only looking to brag about the new system you are building. But good for you, I do with you the best.
From the sounds of it I don’t know you didn’t save yourself a lot of time and money and just install a Bose Wave Radio on your dashboard and run it off an inverter, it would probably sound just as good. You have heard of Bose right?

The best system for him would be a mirror, some air pods, a keyboard, and a Bluetooth buttplug that vibrates every time someone comments on his thread.

 

[EddieNFL]

Bose? Wasn't that designed for disco?

 

[Maggot]

The best system for him would be a mirror, some air pods, a keyboard, and a Bluetooth buttplug that vibrates every time someone comments on his thread.

Brutal.

 

[Cardboard55]

These wimpy woofers are the 6.5 Creedmoor/Bud Light Dylan of woofers.



Time to step up to a man-sized woofer:

Fostex FW800HS, 31.5" Super Woofer

31.5" Super-Woofer! Features ♦800mm (31.5") cone ♦8 ohm impedance ♦fo to 1.5kHz frequency response ♦96dB sensitivity at 1W/1m (3.3ft)

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

 

[Maggot]

These wimpy woofers are the 6.5 Creedmoor/Bud Light Dylan of woofers.



Time to step up to a man-sized woofer:

Fostex FW800HS, 31.5" Super Woofer

31.5" Super-Woofer! Features ♦800mm (31.5") cone ♦8 ohm impedance ♦fo to 1.5kHz frequency response ♦96dB sensitivity at 1W/1m (3.3ft)

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

Electro Voice used to make one that size. It was recommended to rotate it 180% every 6 months to correct sag because of the wiegt of the cone itself.

 

[Cardboard55]

Electro Voice used to make one that size. It was recommended to rotate it 180% every 6 months to correct sag because of the wiegt of the cone itself.

If we had enough of them, we could bolt them to the American side of the San Andreas fault, crank up some JGW and watch the rest slide into the Pacific (the bass on that album is almost deep enough to be an audio Senekot.

 

[chevy_man]

Electro Voice used to make one that size. It was recommended to rotate it 180% every 6 months to correct sag because of the wiegt of the cone itself.

Hell no. Just mount it up or down facing.

 

[chevy_man]

Bose? Wasn't that designed for disco?

It was designed to extract the most money possible from the smallest speaker using plastic "horns" that cost $3 to injection mold.

The Bose speakers I pulled out of my Denali were just paper 1 way speakers. 2 ohm, for maximum power, and the magic was the time alignment and cabin specific EQ settings in the "amp". The infinity kappa 2 ohm 3 ways I replaced them with were way crisper and louder everywhere.

 

[n2ishun]

No highs, no lows.....must be Bose (blows?).

 

[AMGtuned]

Their 13w7 actually sounds awesome and smooth with sane power. With stupid power it will rattle your teeth loose.

Great sub to put in a well designed ported enclosure if you can spare the space.

13w7, slot ported, 1.5" thick mounting surface, and 1000/1 slash series minimum.

Broke a few windows that way, back when I worked at Tweeter. Love those friggin things

 

[AMGtuned]

The thing is, I actually understand the "Thiele-Small" parameters and know how to utilize them.
The "FS" (or frequency of resonance) on that sub is about 35 hz.....I want, and need something much lower, 28hz or less with a "VAS" of under 30 litres or so. QTS and QMS do not matter to me as they can be manipulated via cabinet design....you can't change the FS or the VAS by trickery.
2 of those Epique 7" subs will hang with that JL on power all day long, and can use a smaller cabinet, dig ?
I could give a flying fuck about a companies reputation, what matters is how they perform.

As I stated earlier, if money was no object I would buy a 12" Morel Titanium Ultima and call it a day.
It is the best SQ sub made that is available.....unlike Adire, which is never available.
You do know about Adire subs, right ?
They invented long stroke subs and are the innovators of the design and make shit like...

CLEARANCE Adire Audio ADBX15D2 BrahmaX 15" XBL DVC Subwoofer

Adire Audio ADBX15D2 BrahmaX 15" XBL DVC SubwooferAdire Audio ADBX15D2 BrahmaX 15" XBL DVC SubwooferThe ultimate solution for ultra high excursion, linearity and low distortionThe 2021 Brahma X Mk2, previously known as the Brahma Extreme, has a rich history of setting records many years ago in...

www.parts-express.com

Space is a concern for me, I want small.
1 cu ft is larger than I want, .4 or less is where I want to be with the box.
Yea I could get fancy and build a folded horn enclosure or a 7th order bandpass....but why ?
K.I.S.S. ya follow ?

I could also go multiple amps and run a stand alone DSP and I am very comfortable tuning one.
Again, why ?
I can manipulate a passive crossover just as well....time alignment, simple a few caps and resistors, done....change the slope, add an inductor and another cap, done.
I am in no way new at this but I am unfamiliar with the current market of amplifiers out right now.
If I could find a McIntosh 4 channel I would be happy as hell.....likewise a gen 2 or 3 JL 300/4.
But alas, they don't currently make an amp that will hang with either of those.....and I can hear the difference.

BTW, wire.
You're looking for OFC (oxygen free copper) and it's available, but costs more.
Most of the shit you see is CCA or copper coated aluminum and it is for shit.
Welding cables like "Belden" are MUCH better for power cables than something like Monster or JL or even Focal.
Ya see, they are made for heat, are higher quality copper, are finer stranded (inductance matters) and don't jack the price because brand name.

2nd time in the thread you mentioned the 300/4. Used to be my go-to for bi-wire.

450/4 FTW

 

[Cardboard55]

Back in the day, Bose was pushing the 901's, which were inefficient as hell, turned sound to mush and blew drivers.

JBL was in their golden age with the L100, L26 or Jubal's if one was loaded, east coast had AR3's, KLH and stacked double Advent's (which I had). Magnepans and DCM Time Windows were floating about. Source material was vinyl with tonearm/cartridge combos battling it out atop increasingly better (and more $$$$ turntables, as solid state controls improved. Or big Teac and Dokorder Reel to Reels.

Inevitably, Dark Side of the Moon would be tested, along with other classics.

 

[Maggot]

Back in the day, Bose was pushing the 901's, which were inefficient as hell, turned sound to mush and blew drivers.

JBL was in their golden age with the L100, L26 or Jubal's if one was loaded, east coast had AR3's, KLH and stacked double Advent's (which I had). Magnepans and DCM Time Windows were floating about. Source material was vinyl with tonearm/cartridge combos battling it out atop increasingly better (and more $$$$ turntables, as solid state controls improved. Or big Teac and Dokorder Reel to Reels.

Inevitably, Dark Side of the Moon would be tested, along with other classics.

If you want one of the best speakers ever mad and relatively inexpensive for what you get, find a pair of Altec 604E Super Duplex. Altec took over Western Electric's place in the audio industry. When they saw that sound recording and reproduction was becoming a huge industry, they told their engineers to build the best, cost no object speaker.

With the exception of the WE 555 this is likely the best Ive heard, and I've heard $750,000 speaker systems. THey only go about 35-16000 hz, but where the music lives, the midrange, they get it right. efficient at +/- 98 db depending on the cabinet volume. I have mine in custom made solid white oak cabinets with lots of bracing. You can get them on ebay for $2-4000 per pair.

 

[n2ishun]

Altec and JBL used to be almost next door neighbors in the Anaheim/Santa Ana area along side the I5 fwy in Socal.
I visited both places...and this was late 70's-early 80's when both were in their prime *hey days* or however you say it.

The cleanest speaker I've ever heard is a JBL L116A 8" driver with a Focal T120tdx tweeter.
Clean and simple and it ran from 30-25k and wasn't all that flat to be honest but they just have that "something" that brings music alive.
1.4 cu ft vented and stuffed....2 huge boards, 1 high pass, 1 low pass.
Yea, I made them and always wanted to tweak them so they were flatter.....but they just sound so damn good I don't think the tweaking would help, but it might hurt it.
Those Focal tweeters just sound so fucking good it's like the sound just floats out there and doesn't really come from a source point.

JBL used to make a "Sub 1500" but that's been quite some time ago.
Those seriously kicked the llamas ass.
About the only images I can find is ...

JBL 1500 Subwoofer Drivers only - pair - Photo1651379

www.usaudiomart.com

And yea, I've heard the Focal Utopia GM and the Wilson Audio WAMMs and Puppy's....I've even heard the *real* original Infinity Reference system with 2 sub towers that were about 8 foot tall and 2 arches of planar tweeters that were as tall and maybe 10 foot across (been a long time ago so if my estimates are off...whatever). Now Infinity is shit Chiwanese trash, and you can quote me on that.

Anyways, back to the question.
Does anyone have experience with a current 4 channel class AB automotive amplifier that is about 70-100 watts per channel.
And it has CLEAN power and sound?

 

[Makinchips208]

Altec and JBL used to be almost next door neighbors in the Anaheim/Santa Ana area along side the I5 fwy in Socal.
I visited both places...and this was late 70's-early 80's when both were in their prime *hey days* or however you say it.

The cleanest speaker I've ever heard is a JBL L116A 8" driver with a Focal T120tdx tweeter.
Clean and simple and it ran from 30-25k and wasn't all that flat to be honest but they just have that "something" that brings music alive.
1.4 cu ft vented and stuffed....2 huge boards, 1 high pass, 1 low pass.
Yea, I made them and always wanted to tweak them so they were flatter.....but they just sound so damn good I don't think the tweaking would help, but it might hurt it.
Those Focal tweeters just sound so fucking good it's like the sound just floats out there and doesn't really come from a source point.

JBL used to make a "Sub 1500" but that's been quite some time ago.
Those seriously kicked the llamas ass.
About the only images I can find is ...

JBL 1500 Subwoofer Drivers only - pair - Photo1651379

www.usaudiomart.com

And yea, I've heard the Focal Utopia GM and the Wilson Audio WAMMs and Puppy's....I've even heard the *real* original Infinity Reference system with 2 sub towers that were about 8 foot tall and 2 arches of planar tweeters that were as tall and maybe 10 foot across (been a long time ago so if my estimates are off...whatever). Now Infinity is shit Chiwanese trash, and you can quote me on that.

Anyways, back to the question.
Does anyone have experience with a current 4 channel class AB automotive amplifier that is about 70-100 watts per channel.
And it has CLEAN power and sound?

Yeah but you probably already know about them…

 

[n2ishun]

Yeah but you probably already know about them…

No, I honestly don't.
I haven't bothered to keep up with the market on them at all.
I've *heard* that Zapco and Mosconi, possibly Helix, should be in my consideration, but know nothing about them.
Somebody up above mentioned Soundstream that I've heard nothing about except that mention and there's Morel that I know does not make a low quality product....but like all of them has a low quality product made for them in China.
I *think* the Morel amps are made in Israel, but wouldn't swear to it, if they are made in Israel they will be top notch.

I live way out in the no where so there is not a store or shop I can even hear anything at these days.
It's good to live out here until you want something you can't find local.
Hence, this thread.
Obviously I can go to the grocery store and maybe find a car audio magazine....but it would be downright stupid to believe anything in print, the advertisers pay the bills after all......ya feel me ?

Any honest suggestions, or experience with anything currently on the market ?

 

[Maggot]

An industry udate.

Audio Research Corp is Sold; Or Is It? - ...​

Strata-gee.com
https://www.strata-gee.com › audio-research-corp-is-s...



May 18, 2023 — Although it doesn't specifically say Cora or Acora Acoustics is acquiring ARC, that is the clear intimation. The announcement goes on to add ...

 

[Makinchips208]

No, I honestly don't.
I haven't bothered to keep up with the market on them at all.
I've *heard* that Zapco and Mosconi, possibly Helix, should be in my consideration, but know nothing about them.
Somebody up above mentioned Soundstream that I've heard nothing about except that mention and there's Morel that I know does not make a low quality product....but like all of them has a low quality product made for them in China.
I *think* the Morel amps are made in Israel, but wouldn't swear to it, if they are made in Israel they will be top notch.

I live way out in the no where so there is not a store or shop I can even hear anything at these days.
It's good to live out here until you want something you can't find local.
Hence, this thread.
Obviously I can go to the grocery store and maybe find a car audio magazine....but it would be downright stupid to believe anything in print, the advertisers pay the bills after all......ya feel me ?

Any honest suggestions, or experience with anything currently on the market ?

The morel 5.950 is a class AB on the front and rear channels, class D on the sub channel. Super nice amp for under $800. I don’t know the country of origin, but the quality and reputation sometimes count for something, so I wouldn’t worry about where it was made. I mean the Dayton subs that you like are for sure made in China, and for probably less than $40, so honestly I'm sure the morel amp is good even if made in China.
That’s all I got for you. Best of luck!

 

[Makinchips208]

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-TteK41CqAvg/p_575P3001P/Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-P300-1.html

Add this one to the list. However it is from China or tiawan. And I did check with someone and 99% of Morel amplifier components are from tiawan, not sure where assembly and testing is done.

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

I can fully understand not liking that ghetto-ass boomy mush I always seem to hear (and feel) coming from almost everything these days from a beater Taurus, to what was once a classic, but is now sporting 26" wheels.

Having been a CO in a supermax for 10 years... I INSTANTLY associate that shit with criminal activity. (Yeah, I'm getting pretty judgy in my old age.
However, I myself do like the bottom end of the spectrum to be nice and deep, with a good solid thump. Only difference is, I want to hear that thump coming from all my 70s classic rock songs.

I'm currently doing a build on my 2011 Suburban. (OK, I'm currently driving around without a driver's side door panel waiting for the inspiration to get back to my install)

Kenwood Excelon head unit, the 3 way Infinity Kappa Perfect separates in the front doors, and a 6.5" JL Audio sub in a small sealed enclosure for each rear door, all powered by a single JL Audio Amp. Should sound nice, and I'll keep 100% of all that factory cargo space.

Did similar with my old Mercury Marauder, only doors, and deck were JL Audio C-3 separates, and the sub was a 10" JL... but again, in a small sealed down firing enclosure, AND in the same spot as the very weak factory sub.

System hit pretty hard down low, and was very clear for mids & highs. I also kept 100% of the trunk space. I used my trunk for what it was... no opening it to fins some huge ported box taking up all the room.

From the Marauder...

Sub enclosure held in place with bolts I welded to the trunk shelf floor. (didn't want to risk drilling through the gas tank)

 

[philly1010]

Funny to hear that OP wants "audiophile" level gear for a car. Never gonna happen.

Also: