Yep. This is the first time I used more than 1 full (360) wrap of .001" on an Ar. I didn't even have .002" shim stock before the sfar.
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Ruger SFAR small frame 308, 6.8 pounds
- Thread starter Ape_Factory
- Start date
Yep. This is the first time I used more than 1 full (360) wrap of .001" on an Ar. I didn't even have .002" shim stock before the sfar.
So handled the 20 inch at my local gun shop yesterday. Owned by a good friend cool place to hang out . But he offered a good price to bite on it after 4 or five trips to handle it .
Making my list - need to replace gas block- maybe buffer and spring played with- some shim stock and very possibly 1-3 trips back to Ruger mother ship . O and a hella ammo budget so get her cycling and running smooth on setting g 2 or 1 or super secret ludicrous.
And if I do all that or 12 or three of those things I’ll have a large ish type 308 that shoots good and is very light and has lots of AR 15 parts compatibility for less than some other boutique rifles .
And the I look at my 6.5 Grendel and my just planning stage 6arc build - and think- light weight kinda do all walking around hunting varmint rifle in a AR platform.
Fuck why am I so tempered to spend $900 something on a possible boat anchor that won’t check any boxes that something else don't already check?
Making my list - need to replace gas block- maybe buffer and spring played with- some shim stock and very possibly 1-3 trips back to Ruger mother ship . O and a hella ammo budget so get her cycling and running smooth on setting g 2 or 1 or super secret ludicrous.
And if I do all that or 12 or three of those things I’ll have a large ish type 308 that shoots good and is very light and has lots of AR 15 parts compatibility for less than some other boutique rifles .
And the I look at my 6.5 Grendel and my just planning stage 6arc build - and think- light weight kinda do all walking around hunting varmint rifle in a AR platform.
Fuck why am I so tempered to spend $900 something on a possible boat anchor that won’t check any boxes that something else don't already check?
Personally I'd skip any trips back to the Ruger mother ship unless it goes kaboom or there's something obvious wrong with it.
gas block, yes
shim stock, yes
ammo, 100 rounds minimum
jury is still out for me on Tubbs final finish lapping but hopefully I'll find out soon
I bought a heavier buffer, haven't used it yet.
I brought the springs from my AR-15 and LR-308 with me on my last range trip but did not feel the need to swap them in
ALSO ... if you can hold out another week or two I may know where you can get a slightly used one with most of those modifications already done for less than $800.
gas block, yes
shim stock, yes
ammo, 100 rounds minimum
jury is still out for me on Tubbs final finish lapping but hopefully I'll find out soon
I bought a heavier buffer, haven't used it yet.
I brought the springs from my AR-15 and LR-308 with me on my last range trip but did not feel the need to swap them in
ALSO ... if you can hold out another week or two I may know where you can get a slightly used one with most of those modifications already done for less than $800.
After all the troubles everybody else have listed.... I must be livin’ right!
Making my franken gun 308 is what brought me here - and it’s now my favorite rifle . I’ve shot several groups under half moa . It does everything I thought I wanted it to do.
Lots of the above checklist and three different optics and two different mounts and two different triggers and lots of ammo and components. I’m happy with it but it sure as hell isn’t light weight .
Another 16 inch that checks the boxes and weighs under 8 sounds like a dream . I think I’ll let some others do beta testing and wait for gen 2. Like the gen 2 Ruger Americans that just dropped.
Lots of the above checklist and three different optics and two different mounts and two different triggers and lots of ammo and components. I’m happy with it but it sure as hell isn’t light weight .
Another 16 inch that checks the boxes and weighs under 8 sounds like a dream . I think I’ll let some others do beta testing and wait for gen 2. Like the gen 2 Ruger Americans that just dropped.
If I get my "lightweight" 6.5 ar10 moved this coming year, I'm getting a 6.5 sfar. It's only money and I got to have something to fuss over.
You're a bad influence.
Didn't have a crow foot big enough to put the nut back on the SFAR and couldn't find one at the local places so ordered one off the interwebs.
Now I'm waiting for it so what do I do? I take apart the AR-15 that never quite delivered the precision I expected from the LaRue barrel that's what. It wiggles too (just a teeny bit) so I shimmed it. Got extra shim material so why not shim all the things! Wouldn't take a .0015" sheet but a .001" sheet seems to have made it nice and snug. As long as I'm going to the range may as well order some Tubb's for it too ... it's only money.
I finally had (made) time to get the SFAR out on the 1000yd range and ....... it certainly redeemed itself well and performed far better than expected. I think I've finally got a load/buffer/spring combo that works! Out of 140 rounds I only had one fail to feed (boogered up the meplat and a bit of a gouge on the neck) and the brass is in the best shape it's been, not perfect but way better than previously.
We have steel from 300 to 1000yd. From 400 to 800 there is a silhouette and an MOA popper, silhouette at 900 and 1000 plus a 10" at 1000. Despite very 'challenging ' wind , 5 rounds on each out 900 without dropping one. I REALLY didn't expect that level of accuracy out of it. Very pleased. 1000 was a bit of guess work. Hit indicator not working and almost impossible to hear the hits with all the wind in the trees. The wind was 10 gusting 20 from my 6-7 o'clock, at 800 it was from 2-3 o'clock, at 900, 9-10 o'clock and at a thousand the flag spent most of it's time pointing straight up to the sky!
So with this refreshed interest in this rifle I may start looking into the bedding etc some of you are trying. It's a shame it takes so much work/experimentation with parts and ammo to get it to run right, but it's do-able.
I've only used 6.5cm at longer distances (and this is probably not news to most of you!) but I was surprised that my 6.5cm needs 31 moa dial up at 1000 whilst the 308 needed 47.8 ! Quite a difference.
Anyway, the rifle is back at the front of the safe and will get a lot more use now!
We have steel from 300 to 1000yd. From 400 to 800 there is a silhouette and an MOA popper, silhouette at 900 and 1000 plus a 10" at 1000. Despite very 'challenging ' wind , 5 rounds on each out 900 without dropping one. I REALLY didn't expect that level of accuracy out of it. Very pleased. 1000 was a bit of guess work. Hit indicator not working and almost impossible to hear the hits with all the wind in the trees. The wind was 10 gusting 20 from my 6-7 o'clock, at 800 it was from 2-3 o'clock, at 900, 9-10 o'clock and at a thousand the flag spent most of it's time pointing straight up to the sky!
So with this refreshed interest in this rifle I may start looking into the bedding etc some of you are trying. It's a shame it takes so much work/experimentation with parts and ammo to get it to run right, but it's do-able.
I've only used 6.5cm at longer distances (and this is probably not news to most of you!) but I was surprised that my 6.5cm needs 31 moa dial up at 1000 whilst the 308 needed 47.8 ! Quite a difference.
Anyway, the rifle is back at the front of the safe and will get a lot more use now!
Lol! You need a receiver lapping tool! For 15s and 10s. JK, my favorite thing is finding a forgotten Ar in the back of the safe to pull out and start working on. Maybe it didn't meet accuracy expectations or it just needs updated. A year or two ago I did the same thing with two larue barreled rifles. The first barrel didn't shoot that great so I bought another one and it was the same. Split a ff kit between the two. Dont remember if it did much but I think they both went back into the safe thinking meh.
Tubbs flatwire ( as per discussions had on page 4 or 5 , I think, of this thread) and Odin buffer with 2 tungsten and one steel (maybe aluminum, can't recall) giving 6.3oz, shooting 168gn Sierra MKs over 41.4 gn of Varget. That load gave an average of 2462fps over my magnetospeed on a 60+ degree day. At the range on Tuesday it was high 30s and Strelok corrected that to 2488fps. (something to do with a strong tail wind maybe??)
A while back I used 3 tungsten weights and my brass was pretty much perfect but the recoil was outrageous.
ETA: I know the gas tube length was the main reason for bendigo's offset so I added snaps of the orginal SFAR tube and my new tube length at the end of this post. My 20" SFAR of course.
Just for grins since I had it apart for shimming when I put the AGB back I snapped some low quality images with my Teslong that sorta back up my math a little but also provided a small surprise. I just like the idea that it sorta matched my earlier math.
From what I remember the Ruger AGB port was pretty much dead center in all the bore pics I took of it, I'd have to dig them up again but they are in one of the earlier posts in this thread or the other SFAR thread.
One or the other, betting on Ruger, might be a tad non-standard in the distance from the port to the shoulder.
The pictures ... all my 20" SFAR or course so no idea what variations there may be between models or rifles in general.
Superlative Adjustable Gas Block mounted flush against the shoulder. Surprise! It's actually partially obstructed with a flush SAGB install at the muzzle side of the barrel port.
To get the ports to line up exactly it requires almost, not quite, the SAGB to be a dime thickness off the shoulder. Note, the SAGB inlet is smaller than the 1/8" port drilled by Ruger.
Applying the BOAGBM™ (the Bendigo Offset Adjustable Gas Block Method) the restriction is very similar to the flush mount restriction just on the chamber side of the barrel port. This is using a quarter as a spacer between the AGB and the shoulder. This is also, more or less, perfectly centered so depending on Bendigo's OCD the restriction may be more from a slightly off center mount.
And a nickel just for grins ... barely but not much thicker than a quarter. Sorry it's not as centered as the others.
SFAR tube left/silver, new tube right/black
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Clean the bajeezus out of the bore before you try the FF rounds. And, check it with a bore scope- don’t rely on clean patches coming out of the end.
The lands on my rifle are polished shiny after the FF treatment, as is a stripe down the center of the grooves. But, the edges of the grooves were “protected” by persistent fouling that I did not observe, relying on clean patches to tell me the bore was clean. Now clean, I can see a lot of residual chatter where that fouling was located. Kind of a bummer, but I haven’t shot the rifle since FF, so maybe it worked anyway…
The lands on my rifle are polished shiny after the FF treatment, as is a stripe down the center of the grooves. But, the edges of the grooves were “protected” by persistent fouling that I did not observe, relying on clean patches to tell me the bore was clean. Now clean, I can see a lot of residual chatter where that fouling was located. Kind of a bummer, but I haven’t shot the rifle since FF, so maybe it worked anyway…
All,
Short of reading all 821 posts, are there any summaries to be found on the current state of this platform? I was somewhat in the loop for the introduction and a few months afterwards but had stopped keeping up with the daily input from the crew here.
Are the current production examples trouble-free? Anyecommended mods, fixes, etc.
TIA,
Keith
Short of reading all 821 posts, are there any summaries to be found on the current state of this platform? I was somewhat in the loop for the introduction and a few months afterwards but had stopped keeping up with the daily input from the crew here.
Are the current production examples trouble-free? Anyecommended mods, fixes, etc.
TIA,
Keith
Maybe the ff kit will knock that burr off the front of that port.
Yeah, I don't know that I have a barrel that doesn't have a similar chip/burr on the muzzle side of the port ... don't know that I've ever seen a borescope picture of a port that doesn't show similar wear except maybe new and unfired.
But the FF can knock it down and smooth it over so it doesn't catch copper boogers that might be a win. Stole this from some other post.
1 minor kaboom from @Twinsen that I know of with a 20"
mine is giving me semi-crap accuracy but it stopped chewing brass after swapping out the gas block and a couple hundred rounds of ammo ... also a 20"
2 here (@Bendigo78 and @Southernspeed ?) are getting very good precision/accuracy bendigo swapped out the AGB and put some Tubbs through the barrel southerspeed swapped out the spring and the buffer (gas block I forget) ... honestly I've lost track but quite a few people claim their SFAR performs flawlessly with no modifications counter to numerous u-toob videos on the topic ... I think @sparky702 is getting sub-moa groups using nothing but lube and WWB 150gr ammo
Oh ... and shimming ... @Bendigo78 shimmed his barrel to provide the current level of precision/accuracy with a 0.002" shim, I'm trying 0.0025"
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My 20“ SFAR is happy as long as I give it decent ammo. A couple of different factory loads will produce sub-MOA groups if the guy behind the trigger and scope does his part. Call me one of the happy campers.
I’m still on the stock gas block but can only get sub MOA accuracy from hand loads.
Having sat through a 15+ student class for around 300 rounds, the only real issues were a bad gasblock, some kind of boogered up trigger, and super underwhelming accuracy (albeit, with Aguila M80 clone). Accuracy with mine has been pretty poor - need to borescope and assess copper in mine.
Anyone gotten a 6.5 yet? If so, have you pulled it apart yet? Is the gas port still oversized? Looks like it has rifle length gas ..would have liked to at least see +1".
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It is funny that there is zero reports of them in the wild yet. Brownells lists them available for sale.
From a parts compatibility and economy of scale perspective I would expect so....but I guess if the pressure didn't play nice, and they had to redesign something, you never know!
Well I have been wanting an ar10 in 6.5 creedmoor for quite some time . I have been setting on some money waiting for the right opportunity . I thought about the psa sabre But was a bit Leary so I held off . I seen rumors of the 6.5 sfar But that was all just rumors . So I was shopping the daily deals at PSA and run acrosss an armalite 6.5 creedmoor for an exceptional price . I bought it and 2 day's later guess what showed up with a buy it now LOL . I'm sure somebody will come along and tell me I was stupid for buying the armalite . It is what it is .
It would be pretty crazy if the 6.5 had a different barrel extension and or receiver than the 308.
I need another 6.5 creed like a hole in my head but there's an already unneeded 6.5 ar10 in the safe. If that one was to wander down the road, then maybe the 308 sfar needs a 6.5 sibling.
Back to the SFAR gas block for a second. IIRC you went with a clamp on block.
Do you have any clearance between the bottom of the block and the handguard? I've been so focused on the clearance between the top of the block and the top of the guard I only just noticed I've got virtually no clearance between the bottom of the block and the bottom of the guard ... literally like 1/16th of an inch between the screw heads and the guard. Pinching it between one finger and a thumb I can create contact.
Did you modify your handguard or replace it?
Why not build a light weight AR 10, this one came out at 6 lbs 3 oz without a pencil barrel but a heavier fluted SS barrel. It shoots great and functions great. Carbon fiber handguard, titanium bolt carrier, home built titanium muzzle brake, SA adj gas block, magnesium upper. The lower is standard Areo Precision with 2 lb aftermarket trigger. It's possible to get well into 5 lb area with magnesium lower & pencil barrel...at more cost.
This cost me $1150, as I looked for sales and tried to find the best deals. It also runs 208eldms at 2460 fps, or single feed 225 eldm at 2442 fps. 155s got 2850 to 2900 fps in a 16" barrel. Shoot the same power level as the bolt guns.
This cost me $1150, as I looked for sales and tried to find the best deals. It also runs 208eldms at 2460 fps, or single feed 225 eldm at 2442 fps. 155s got 2850 to 2900 fps in a 16" barrel. Shoot the same power level as the bolt guns.
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Dude, seriously, take the hint. If you want to crow about your build, with all it's exotic materials rather than mostly engineering to get it down to weight, then start a new thread. You've already shown it here. This is a thread about/for the SFAR. It's as annoying as the guy in the AI thread who has a trued 700 in a AI chassis and thinks he belongs..... "jUst as gUud"
Would be interesting to see the S/N ranges of those who are having so many issues.
Neither if mine have had the issues most elude to here & are rack stock.
The 16" is 563-20xxx
The 20" is 563-15xxx
either will shoot under moa w/the 16 out shooting the 20.
Neither if mine have had the issues most elude to here & are rack stock.
The 16" is 563-20xxx
The 20" is 563-15xxx
either will shoot under moa w/the 16 out shooting the 20.
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Yep the clamp on SA adjustable. I did have to clearance the bottom when i did the top of the original handgaurd. The clamp screws stick out a bit.
You can add me to the list of folks that are pretty happy with the SFAR. I sent mine back before even shooting it because the gas block was cocked and in contact with the rail. Since it's come back I've worked up a few loads with some blem bullets I have that are ~0.9 - 1.3 moa for 5 shots, best load has been factory Win Deer Season XP weirdly enough, which is in the 3/4" range for 5.
I haven't messed with loads for the rifle in several months due to a move and carrying it as is for most of hunting season (pretty pleased with that application), but I'll probably try some new loads in the spring. I do have an Aero AGB that I plan on experimenting with to dial the gas down a bit more since it is basically only shot suppressed, but honestly thats no different from any AR I buy or build, so I don't have any heartburn about doing that kind of stuff to my rifles.
The only thing I would do without a doubt to "fix" the rifle if it were possible is go with a longer gas system. I've been through a few AR10s and small frame .308 ARs, and would not use a mid-length if I were putting one together. It's not the end of the world, but it's a sub-optimal variable to have to work around if you shoot suppressed.
I haven't messed with loads for the rifle in several months due to a move and carrying it as is for most of hunting season (pretty pleased with that application), but I'll probably try some new loads in the spring. I do have an Aero AGB that I plan on experimenting with to dial the gas down a bit more since it is basically only shot suppressed, but honestly thats no different from any AR I buy or build, so I don't have any heartburn about doing that kind of stuff to my rifles.
The only thing I would do without a doubt to "fix" the rifle if it were possible is go with a longer gas system. I've been through a few AR10s and small frame .308 ARs, and would not use a mid-length if I were putting one together. It's not the end of the world, but it's a sub-optimal variable to have to work around if you shoot suppressed.
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His lack of relevance, in this thread and elsewhere, is really getting tiresome,
My 20 inch is a 563-15xxx and I have had no issue's other than relieving some metal in the hand guard . I have changed nothing else . and I plan to leave it as it set's . it fit's my needs perfect I wanted a light semi-auto that had enough punch to drop a black bear or hog and harvest deer .
Yeah, I ground those stupid spurs/fangs off the top inside of the guard above the gas block.
The thickness at the base of the factory block is ~0.21", the thickness at the base of the SA clamp block ~0.25" and then there's the screw head that hangs ~0.14" (maybe more) off to one side and it's the screw that is hovering ~1/16" off the rail that touches on one of the internal "ribs" at the bottom when I pinch it.
I have a SA set screw block on another rifle and the thickness at the base is ~0.19" so I'm swapping them out. The width of the base on either SA blocks is also hella fatter than the width of the base on the factory block but still skinnier than the width between the "ribs". It's only the screws of the clamp block that overhang the ribs.
I'm tempted to just get a shorter guard and leave the block exposed cuz IDGAF about pretty.
I have been tempted to go with a different hand guard ,but everything is working as it should right now and I am doing my best to not fix what's not broken .
I was thinking the same. Took my guard off and there’s witness marks on the left side of GB at the top.
Maybe get a shorter one or cut this one down. Only negative would be my Mlok bi pod legs would have to move back some.
Yep, cause I don't have those problems...
I'd rather carry a little heavier AR 10 that works, and mine is actually lighter and it works
You can have the same success. Just dump this boondoggle, and let the manufacturer come up with a fix.
Why put up and struggle with a rifle that has so many issues?
A whole tread on a rifle that doesn't work, and some not so smart people continue to purchase them.
If Ruger can not fix these issues, the average guy has little chance.
Factory warranty? Lemon Law for cars comes to mind. Lot of people loved the Ford Pinto too.
But you keep on chooglin... your failing rifle, your life.
An intelligent person would purchase something that works...without constant issues.
I didn't look for marks but accuracy tanked even though function improved after I swapped the block. The set screw version has more clearance so I swapped that one in. My barrel is 20", I was assuming the 20" is more susceptible to handguard interference, one more reason to chop it down if I can ever get it to start behaving.
He's a total douchebag, I've had him on ignore for maybe a year and only know he posts when someone replies to him to tell him what an asshole he is.
Before ignoring him I did read a couple posts about his magic 308s that all work perfectly. Fantasy, bullshit ... don't care ...
You are free to have an opinion about how superior your pieced together AR10 is to a factory built and warranted rifle, and even think of yourself as oh so intelligent also. That’s absolutely fine. We don’t mind. But you might also take into account that you mainly never hear from or about all the thousands of SFAR owners that are happily using their rifles - and are trouble-free.
If you look at the serial number spread - it’s readily apparent that the folks with issues with their SFARs is a pretty small number. When people are unhappy with something - they are way more likely to make it known, and be very vocal about it. That’s their right as well. If that’s how you want to frame your argument - feel free.
For the record, mine shoots sub-MOA now that I know what ammo it likes.
It has zero issues, and I am happy with it.
It works.
Great, ..maybe Ruger should fix the problems. And I hope that noone has any further problems in the future, with this rifle.
Yours is working to your standards...excellent, that's what everyone, expects and hopes from every firearm manufacturer. And problems should be corrected quickly or pulled from the market.
But it seems like more than a few problems, posted here.
A factory warranty? Why then haven't they all been sent back and corrected, or replaced?
That is clearly not the case.
I have never used a factory warranty, much of which is a joke...I've seen them returned in the same condition, many times, with a note, it meets factory specifications. A few corrected.
I do not care what brand or type of rifle anyone cares to run, but if persistent problems arise, for those, who keep experiencing such, then...Why not choose something else?
Want light you can build light..or accept a heavier platform that works ...don't matter to me. Just saying, there are options for those frustrated, with the status, of fair amount of problematic firearms.
You do realize some people are paid to poo-poo any product that is not from xyz shipping doc. Plus any new product that is taking market share away from gravy trains & making others step up is a huge target.
My son reminded me of an adage that is very apt to this thread, and all others discussing problems with mass produced goods. “Bad news will travel around the world before good news gets its pants on.” Why is this apt here? Because even if there are 100 negative “reviews” of a product, most people are out enjoying their perfectly trouble free “whatever it is.” It is a truism in life that you have to pay for praise, but complaints are free…
I love hearing about SFARs that work.
I like to think the people who are complaining or have complained about the SFAR here are still looking for solutions that work.for the
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