Sierra problems

[blue_ridge]

Have heard rumors that Sierra screwed over some of their contract customers, like Black Jack and Tubb, to name a couple. Curious to hear any relevant details confirming the rumors to be true or false. Did they kick these customers to the curb? Causing Blackjack to go out of business. Did they have major production flaws, like shipping incorrect bullets out? I’m a Berger loyalist but have always held Sierra in high regard. Considering dropping Sierra from consideration for any future purchases…

 

[pineoak]

 

[blue_ridge]

I just want the facts. Not interested in speculation or opinions. Usually the Hide has industry insiders who know the facts.

 

[atepointer]

I just want the facts. Not interested in speculation or opinions. Usually the Hide has industry insiders who know the facts.

On that same token can you provide any facts? Or is this just speculation and your opinion? Seems a wee bit disingenuous to level a thread title and supposition like this w/o providing more than 'have heard rumors'. From who and where? Heck it may end up being true, but at least let us know where you heard the info that'd be a start.

 

[davere]

On that same token can you provide any facts? Or is this just speculation and your opinion? Seems a wee bit disingenuous to level a thread title and supposition like this w/o providing more than 'have heard rumors'. From who and where? Heck it may end up being true, but at least let us know where you heard the info that'd be a start.

Read the 4th paragraph here, regarding BlackJack Bullets demise and Sierra's involvement... - that was April 4th, 2022. As a small business, it's kinda hard to keep rolling when you can't deliver any product. Now... Sierra is only part of the problem (a big part, but not the whole story) in BlackJack's death. Based on the fact that around this time the owner also stopped returning phone calls, and won't refund money for any outstanding orders, it seems probable that he didn't have the money to pay for an order in the April 4th timeline even if the bullets didn't show up (ie, he spent his Accounts Payable trying to stay afloat in that year waiting on bullets).

I traded a message with them (well, with the social media guy, who later quit in the post above) on May 21, 2021 - at that point, Sierra was about two months overdue on their order promise date, but was telling Blackjack that the order got bumped due to "gigantic military contracts". On Jan 17, 2022, I pinged BlackJack about a rumor floating around that Tubb was also getting screwed by Sierra (because I was concerned about *my* backorder with BlackJack, and wanted to gauge where it might be at at the same time) - they responded "I heard today he should have them in March but that’s just a rumor too. The only certainty is with demand this high things are volatile. The biggest contracts win out." BlackJack folded 3 months later.

I don't have any other data on Tubb than the above.

 

[pineoak]

DTAC was the most consistent .223 ammo I've ever used.

 

[atepointer]

Read the 4th paragraph here, regarding BlackJack Bullets demise and Sierra's involvement... - that was April 4th, 2022. As a small business, it's kinda hard to keep rolling when you can't deliver any product. Now... Sierra is only part of the problem (a big part, but not the whole story) in BlackJack's death. Based on the fact that around this time the owner also stopped returning phone calls, and won't refund money for any outstanding orders, it seems probable that he didn't have the money to pay for an order in the April 4th timeline even if the bullets didn't show up (ie, he spent his Accounts Payable trying to stay afloat in that year waiting on bullets).

I traded a message with them (well, with the social media guy, who later quit in the post above) on May 21, 2021 - at that point, Sierra was about two months overdue on their order promise date, but was telling Blackjack that the order got bumped due to "gigantic military contracts". On Jan 17, 2022, I pinged BlackJack about a rumor floating around that Tubb was also getting screwed by Sierra (because I was concerned about *my* backorder with BlackJack, and wanted to gauge where it might be at at the same time) - they responded "I heard today he should have them in March but that’s just a rumor too. The only certainty is with demand this high things are volatile. The biggest contracts win out." BlackJack folded 3 months later.

I don't have any other data on Tubb than the above.

Ok thanks for putting that up I was not aware of any of that ongoing story from April. I can't speak to the internal workings of Sierra and it's unfortunate about BlackJack I love small business America. As you alluded to the volatility....the environment is not going to be without carnage and I'd expect an established company to fare far better. Companies with high leverage/floating rate loans will struggle and this is not a time to be an indentured slave to the bank(and that may not be BlackJack at all no idea on what their status was). Sadly I have a friend in that arena who lost it all over the summer. High leverage is always one interest rate fiasco from financial ruin.

Thanks for posting

 

[blue_ridge]

Read the 4th paragraph here, regarding BlackJack Bullets demise and Sierra's involvement... - that was April 4th, 2022. As a small business, it's kinda hard to keep rolling when you can't deliver any product. Now... Sierra is only part of the problem (a big part, but not the whole story) in BlackJack's death. Based on the fact that around this time the owner also stopped returning phone calls, and won't refund money for any outstanding orders, it seems probable that he didn't have the money to pay for an order in the April 4th timeline even if the bullets didn't show up (ie, he spent his Accounts Payable trying to stay afloat in that year waiting on bullets).

I traded a message with them (well, with the social media guy, who later quit in the post above) on May 21, 2021 - at that point, Sierra was about two months overdue on their order promise date, but was telling Blackjack that the order got bumped due to "gigantic military contracts". On Jan 17, 2022, I pinged BlackJack about a rumor floating around that Tubb was also getting screwed by Sierra (because I was concerned about *my* backorder with BlackJack, and wanted to gauge where it might be at at the same time) - they responded "I heard today he should have them in March but that’s just a rumor too. The only certainty is with demand this high things are volatile. The biggest contracts win out." BlackJack folded 3 months later.

I don't have any other data on Tubb than the above.

Thanks, that clears it up for me. It seems blackJack was just too small and too new to weather the storm. It’s pretty sad that the government can strong arm the firearms industry using our tax dollars to keep ammo and components scarce. It’s more effective than passing legislation to regulate commercial ammo sales. Is this by design or coinidenc? Is there an ammo company anywhere who would turn away government contracts to make commercial ammo sales a priority? You know, make supporting the 2nd Amendment a priority over pure profit.

 

[davere]

High leverage is always one interest rate fiasco from financial ruin.

And that's true even when you have product to sell... that situation with zero income leads to bad things, obviously...

 

[Maverick3009]

Is there an ammo company anywhere who would turn away government contracts to make commercial ammo sales a priority?

For the life of me I can't remember what company it was but I know I've heard of places that have specifically stated that they will not sell to gov't/LE contracts for the reason of being up to keep production for the regular consumer. If I happen to remember I'll update this post. Might have to do some google-fu