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Swatted
- Thread starter Maggot
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The gamer/s are complicit in murder. Just like in a robbery, you only drove the car, but if murder is committed your just as guilty as the person who pulled the trigger. Any action that precipitates from an illegal act!
Then again if most of today's cops were competent, mentally stable, well paid, an not living on food stamps, we might have seen a difference. When you are forced to hire the bottom of the barrel, do to pay scale, working environment ect, do you still expect professional's to hire on?
For him to be complicit in "Murder" the cop has to be charged and arrested for murder. Right now they are complicit in making a guy get called out of his house in the middle of the night to first get blinded by flood lights, then yelled at with all the clarity of an airport PA system and gunned down for moving his hands to shield his eyes, nobody seems to be calling it murder from the police side, just that he moved his hands. In effect, he caused a guy to move his hands. Shooter not charged, you cant charge the gamer.
Even if the guy hadn't been killed, swatting is still a crime and the gamer can/will be arrested.
Hopefully, the FBI takes this case to a federal prosecution and sets some good precedent. It needs to be done. If the US Attorneys office in LA won't pick it up, I bet the USAO in KS will....
Hopefully, the FBI takes this case to a federal prosecution and sets some good precedent. It needs to be done. If the US Attorneys office in LA won't pick it up, I bet the USAO in KS will....
Swatting is a crime, so is gunning down pajama clad citizens on their own porch in the middle of the night,
Nobody ever said the gamer pulled the trigger. Nobody ever said the cop didn't. But I, unlike you, apparently, believe in innocent until proven guilty, by a jury and not internet blowhards.
The he gamer is already in jail because he immediately went back online claiming responsibility for the call.
Im not shifting blame, or reaching for shit. I'm just not an emotional volcano.
The he gamer is already in jail because he immediately went back online claiming responsibility for the call.
Im not shifting blame, or reaching for shit. I'm just not an emotional volcano.
Why is the cop not in jail??? he is on film murdering a American citizen? You are not even equivocating you are just going to denial of responsibility and guilt even after watching the video of a cop shooting a pajama clad American on his porch for no reason at all other than what must be a murderous intent or manslaughter in the least. You are concerned about a douche that called the cops and not the cops gunning down a citizen, that says a lot about you.
You are shifting blame here , equivocating, or you are doing devious denial to move the focus off the perp, who is the cop, in this case.
I wonder now, if someone calls the cops for a noise complaint and the cops end up shooting someone can the caller be held responsible for the responding police actions?
You are shifting blame here , equivocating, or you are doing devious denial to move the focus off the perp, who is the cop, in this case.
I wonder now, if someone calls the cops for a noise complaint and the cops end up shooting someone can the caller be held responsible for the responding police actions?
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All, I'm saying is that there are two different, though related, investigations to be done here.
Incident 1, cause of death or not, is the call. Federal crime.
Incident 2, death of homeowner.
The he cop is not in jail yet because he was there, at that time, in performance of his duty, under color of law. If he went, as you say, with intent to shoot/kill someone, that will need to be proven.
Just be consistent, Jerry. You're on this website all the time talking about due process and accountability and how cops should be held to the same standard as everyone else. I could not agree more! You may not believe it, but that's the truth. If the cop was negligent or criminal, he should be held accountable. But, that cop also deserves his right to due process and a fair trial. Be consistent.
Incident 1, cause of death or not, is the call. Federal crime.
Incident 2, death of homeowner.
The he cop is not in jail yet because he was there, at that time, in performance of his duty, under color of law. If he went, as you say, with intent to shoot/kill someone, that will need to be proven.
Just be consistent, Jerry. You're on this website all the time talking about due process and accountability and how cops should be held to the same standard as everyone else. I could not agree more! You may not believe it, but that's the truth. If the cop was negligent or criminal, he should be held accountable. But, that cop also deserves his right to due process and a fair trial. Be consistent.
Perhaps I am an emotional volcano. I do understand that in our little corner of the universe we discuss issues based on the information available to the public and our assessment of the reliability of that information. We do this to express our opinions about the issues of the day with our peers here on the snipershide. Every single person reading one of these threads understands that:
(1) we have not heard any sworn testimony
(2) none of the information we are using has been subject to cross examination
(3) that a quite high percentage of the information available through conventional journalistic sources would fail when tested by a competent cross examination
(4) We are a group of people exercising our first amendment right to have a conversation and exchange ideas
(5) we are not a court and any sentence we proclaim (however appropriate to the crime) will not be carried out against anyone
So when somebody comes in and tells us: " I, unlike you, apparently, believe in innocent until proven guilty, by a jury and not internet blowhards." That seems much like Orwell's pigs making a new law saying "only required speech is permitted."
I don't think you have come to the right place to behave like an Orwellian pig.
My apologies, I thought this was adults conversing and expressing our opinions. See number 4, above.
Alright, I'm on an iPad, so excuse the brief answers...
the cop had a duty to be there, in response to a 9-1-1 call..
had he made his shot and then turned and said something like, "ha, I blasted that fucker for moving his hands an inch!" he would be in jail already....
whatever, you guys keep on ranting. I'm going hunting...
the cop had a duty to be there, in response to a 9-1-1 call..
had he made his shot and then turned and said something like, "ha, I blasted that fucker for moving his hands an inch!" he would be in jail already....
whatever, you guys keep on ranting. I'm going hunting...
You use duty like it is an excuse. It is not. Duty is a burden. His duty is to protect the innocent not kill them.
This whole bin of shit sickens me. Yesterday we lost a LEO in Denver to a nutcase but the Cops got a shot on him after quite a bit of time to assess the situation and all is good as far as I am concerned. The LEOs did it right. The only thing I question about that is why was a Castle Rock Police Dept. officer there 25 miles north of Castle Rock to be one of the LEOs wounded? Time will tell.
Looking at other videos of things like the Mesa, AZ shooting and the shooting of the homeless bum in ABQ in the past gives me pause to know that the justice system is very broken.
Those videos are of better quality and show me what I need to make an opinion. Who went to prison in either of those cases?
Judges that redact or not allow all evidence to be seen by the jury are just as guilty as the shooters and they too need to be in prison. They are part of the twisted broken system.
I have not seen enough nor heard enough of this Wichita case to completely make my mind up but I am feeling that it is really a bad shoot by a LEO and he will have to live with that for the rest of his life.
I too feel that things like that are eroding our trust in the Police and I firmly believe that the Police need to do a better job of thinning their ranks within of people that are just not of the caliber that they need nor want and are failing miserably at that.
I also agree that if they don't do it it may be done for them by the People and that would be very ugly and good Officers would be painted by the same broad brush. Something does need to be done though.
I will wait for more evidence before making up my mind on the Wichita case but from what I have seen it is not good.
I will predict that the LEO will walk Scot free. FM
Looking at other videos of things like the Mesa, AZ shooting and the shooting of the homeless bum in ABQ in the past gives me pause to know that the justice system is very broken.
Those videos are of better quality and show me what I need to make an opinion. Who went to prison in either of those cases?
Judges that redact or not allow all evidence to be seen by the jury are just as guilty as the shooters and they too need to be in prison. They are part of the twisted broken system.
I have not seen enough nor heard enough of this Wichita case to completely make my mind up but I am feeling that it is really a bad shoot by a LEO and he will have to live with that for the rest of his life.
I too feel that things like that are eroding our trust in the Police and I firmly believe that the Police need to do a better job of thinning their ranks within of people that are just not of the caliber that they need nor want and are failing miserably at that.
I also agree that if they don't do it it may be done for them by the People and that would be very ugly and good Officers would be painted by the same broad brush. Something does need to be done though.
I will wait for more evidence before making up my mind on the Wichita case but from what I have seen it is not good.
I will predict that the LEO will walk Scot free. FM
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Yep, another dead citizen, the armed agents of the state walks free, there is no justice and the laws only apply to the lemming. The family is now left without a father/husband. Wonder what his kids are thinking right now? Fend for yourselves, do not ever call the cops, your safety and ife is in grave jeopardy every time you have a interaction with the police, treat them with appropriate caution.
Unfortunately this is the message I get out of the defenders of these actions , and I know you all are mostly the cream of the crop (no sarcasm, I actually believe that)
Unfortunately this is the message I get out of the defenders of these actions , and I know you all are mostly the cream of the crop (no sarcasm, I actually believe that)
Really, awwww, feel bad bro? Nobody hating here, just pointing out injustice, and the murdering actions of one cop and the whole "justice" system that is allowing him to get away with it. Losing your job in LE and still walking aint much of a deterrent or a penalty for taking a life of a citizen who was on his porch getting blinded and screamed at over a bullhorn in the middle of the night. Thant is adding insult to injustice.
What I saw from LE agencies was that they would hammer an officer for misconduct up to a point. What was ironic was that the more egregious the misconduct the MORE willing they were to cover up the conduct. Big fuckups lead to big news stories and big lawsuits, so at that point the Agency would choose to protect the officer purely out of its own self interest.
There are absolutely different rules and in fact laws for LE than for civilians. That is by pure necessity:
A civilian can't typically Use force on another citizen or deny them freedom of movement
A civilian can't purchase or transport narcotics
A civilian can't violate traffic laws
etc
This is why we at least used to teach recruits and rookies that what separates their actions from crimes is the legal and Constitutional basis of what they're doing and that they can easily commit a crime by making bad decisions.
Citizens also don't get called in the middle of the night to investigate men with guns, men selling drugs, men beating their wives, etc. It would literally be impossible for LE to exist without common sense exemptions.
I am NOT condoning nor in any way justifying the abuse of LE powers, but LE is judged by a different standard under the law because they are by necessity placed in situations well outside the realm of what a law abiding citizen faces. The process of judgement is basically the same, but the standard applied is in fact different.
Again, a bad shoot is a bad shoot, and I'm not defending them by anyone.
There are absolutely different rules and in fact laws for LE than for civilians. That is by pure necessity:
A civilian can't typically Use force on another citizen or deny them freedom of movement
A civilian can't purchase or transport narcotics
A civilian can't violate traffic laws
etc
This is why we at least used to teach recruits and rookies that what separates their actions from crimes is the legal and Constitutional basis of what they're doing and that they can easily commit a crime by making bad decisions.
Citizens also don't get called in the middle of the night to investigate men with guns, men selling drugs, men beating their wives, etc. It would literally be impossible for LE to exist without common sense exemptions.
I am NOT condoning nor in any way justifying the abuse of LE powers, but LE is judged by a different standard under the law because they are by necessity placed in situations well outside the realm of what a law abiding citizen faces. The process of judgement is basically the same, but the standard applied is in fact different.
Again, a bad shoot is a bad shoot, and I'm not defending them by anyone.
Maybe its time to take away the special laws cops operate under and have them operate under the same laws everyone else does. Another thing has to be mentioned here, police are not obligated to respond at all, this has been ruled on by the SCOTUS, and there is no duty to shoot someone. Really, with CCW in 40 states do we really need as many armed cops as we have? It seems the free pass is abused and seems to have attracted many that should be unfit to carry a gun and a badge. Jail time is in order for the cop that shot this guy, too many police are trigger happy, and even more are scaredy cats so easily frightened it should make the average citizen frightened to deal with them at all.
I've read all seven pages here. Nobody here hates the police. But some of us think that the police need to be accountable to the same laws as everyone else when they murder someone.
Having seen the shit from the inside I can certainly agree that there is a massive problem within LE that largely mirrors the larger society. You're recruiting from today's youngsters, then applying hiring quotas to that group. You ain't getting the best candidates on the streets. I also opposed the increased emphasis on college education for candidates. I had MUCH better luck with high school grads that had spent 5-10 years in the real world dealing with people than with 22-25yr olds out of college with no understanding of real people's problems. Those same dipshits tend to get promoted well beyond their levels of incompetence, creating a lack of true leadership.
As for the obligation to respond, I believe SCOTUS ruled that LE is not liable for its failure to protect someone from harm, if we're talking about the same case? My dept had a policy that every single call that came through communications had to be dispatched ,whether it was an LE matter or not, or referred to another appropriate agency. Every dispatch had the weight of a direct order from the Chief. Deciding not to answer a call, regardless of how ludicrous it may be simply wasn't an option. On maybe 2 occasions I had a supervisor with the nuts to put his ass on the line and tell a dispatcher that we weren't going to service a call.
I am not implying that LE should be above the law, but I think it's fairly obvious why there has to be different filter applied. Otherwise, every time I drove narcotics to the evidence locker I'd be in unlawful possession of a controlled substance. And that's a benign example.
Dune Boer, Unfortunately there are far too many cases where a shooting took place and as you put it,"the po po" walked and not only was he not out of LE but retained in some position or another. Maybe a desk job or back on the streets. Who knows?
A case in mind; There was a botched no knock warrant in Denver several years ago where the Police showed up to serve that no knock warrant and they used a ladder to get up to the roof of the porch leading into the second floor of the house. PoPo came through the window and saw a person on a bed with a "shiny"object in hand and shot him deader than a wedge,"I thought it was a gun."came out in the investigation. He walked, did not lose his job, just went through a whole bunch of hassles, but there were some problems with the case.
#1 They were at the wrong address. What they were actually after was down the street a ways and did in fact probably needed busted. The proper address was on the warrant.
#2 The "Perp" that was shot and killed was an old Mexican guy with a "shiny"can of Diet Coke in his hand laying on his bed,but that got him killed.
Nobody was held accountable for that. All retained their jobs.
Is that what you would call good Police work and would you want them backing you up? I think not.
As I posted before, the LEO community needs to Police their own ranks. You guys know who belongs and who doesn't, just like in an Infantry Platoon. Weed them out before someone weeds them out for you if you take no action yourselves. It ain't happening but needs to.
At some point in time if you continue to fail at Policing your ranks someone will take over for you and do what needs to be done and that is not how it how it should go down.
Don't defend officers that do wrong, kick them out and start over. The Badge is not that big.
You should at least know right from wrong and if you don't you are in the wrong profession.
A case in mind; There was a botched no knock warrant in Denver several years ago where the Police showed up to serve that no knock warrant and they used a ladder to get up to the roof of the porch leading into the second floor of the house. PoPo came through the window and saw a person on a bed with a "shiny"object in hand and shot him deader than a wedge,"I thought it was a gun."came out in the investigation. He walked, did not lose his job, just went through a whole bunch of hassles, but there were some problems with the case.
#1 They were at the wrong address. What they were actually after was down the street a ways and did in fact probably needed busted. The proper address was on the warrant.
#2 The "Perp" that was shot and killed was an old Mexican guy with a "shiny"can of Diet Coke in his hand laying on his bed,but that got him killed.
Nobody was held accountable for that. All retained their jobs.
Is that what you would call good Police work and would you want them backing you up? I think not.
As I posted before, the LEO community needs to Police their own ranks. You guys know who belongs and who doesn't, just like in an Infantry Platoon. Weed them out before someone weeds them out for you if you take no action yourselves. It ain't happening but needs to.
At some point in time if you continue to fail at Policing your ranks someone will take over for you and do what needs to be done and that is not how it how it should go down.
Don't defend officers that do wrong, kick them out and start over. The Badge is not that big.
You should at least know right from wrong and if you don't you are in the wrong profession.
BB,yes, same case. Appreciate your insight here as well as the others of experience, even the overly defensive ones, I do respect all the opinions and thoughts around this, Gotta emphasize Dons statement above, Nobody here is hating the police, I and many others here are pointing out a major issue we are seeing. I been watching this close since the Albuquerque shooting and the situation is getting worse. If the ship aint turned we will see the violence against cops like never before, the police are losing the middle/working class support that they need to survive.
Foul Mike , I agree, but read my post a few up. We sometimes knew of a major issue with certain officers on the Dept, but the bosses won't act because it's a "scandal" against them. So typically what they would so is cover for the true criminals and wait for a pretty decent officer of the proper demographic to have a fairly minor "oops" and publicly fire his ass as a show of "integrity" on the PD.
There's very few incidents that subject a Dept and administration to greater civil liability than a police shooting. An agency is simply not going to come out and say that they fucked up, nor or they going to fire an officer before at least a grand jury indictment. To do otherwise is basically forfeiting the civil case, which to the bosses is a much bigger deal than the actual legality of the shooting. Once that shot is fired, right or wrong, a Dept is going to back it until they don't have to.
For our part, every single LE shooting we had was presented to a grand jury. That was the citizens' voice in whether the officer should face criminal prosecution.
There's very few incidents that subject a Dept and administration to greater civil liability than a police shooting. An agency is simply not going to come out and say that they fucked up, nor or they going to fire an officer before at least a grand jury indictment. To do otherwise is basically forfeiting the civil case, which to the bosses is a much bigger deal than the actual legality of the shooting. Once that shot is fired, right or wrong, a Dept is going to back it until they don't have to.
For our part, every single LE shooting we had was presented to a grand jury. That was the citizens' voice in whether the officer should face criminal prosecution.
I'm with you ArmyJerry . I was in a few spontaneous riots and use daily it as a tool for the younger guys to understand what happens if you truly lose the public you're supposed to serve.
also agree 100% that NO ONE should invite the police into their lives unnecessarily. Even as a former cop I do not have dealings with the police other than to say hello to someone who has recognized me and called me over by name. The number of times I had to arrest the complainant on a call was comical. I would usually ask them if they felt silly about calling me to their home to end up arresting them but a massive portion of the population (and the demographic may surprise some of you) calls the police all day every day for all manner of silly shit. I would beg them not to bring me into their lives, because at that point I'm often obligated to get involved.
also agree 100% that NO ONE should invite the police into their lives unnecessarily. Even as a former cop I do not have dealings with the police other than to say hello to someone who has recognized me and called me over by name. The number of times I had to arrest the complainant on a call was comical. I would usually ask them if they felt silly about calling me to their home to end up arresting them but a massive portion of the population (and the demographic may surprise some of you) calls the police all day every day for all manner of silly shit. I would beg them not to bring me into their lives, because at that point I'm often obligated to get involved.
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
Good thing you missed this one, and the tens of thousands of others. http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-24466
This is the case that made me not want to be a cop.
Can't find the article now, but some parents called the cops on their son for smoking pot or something and he was beaten to death on the way to jail by another inmate. They sure learnt him a lesson he won't soon forget.
Cops are not toys, or baby sitters, or principals or people you call when you don't need something incapacitated in some form or another. My neighbors called the cops on me when I first moved in because I was in the bed of my truck at 3am rummaging around with a flashlight. They didn't even say anything to me, just drove passed when I perked up to see who was lighting me up then went back to looking for my drill. I might have died if I lived somewhere with panicky cops like in South Houston or something.
I did the wtf arm gesture at my neighbor who was peering through the blinds.
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That is a BIG problem.
Nobody will admit that they did wrong or made a mistake. Tarnishes their name or reputation yet the problem persists and we can't have that but tarnished they are and no better than the criminals they defend.
I am not above making a mistake myself but when I do, I know it, and will use it to my advantage and not do that again.
That is what I am getting at. Sometimes the problem is at the top and sometimes at the bottom, some you can deal with on your own but some you can't.
Leadership comes from the top but sometimes it comes from the bottom if the top is fucked up.
That is when you upset the apple cart. It has to come from within and you have to stick with your guns if you know you are right.
I worked a Govt. job for 30 years, not in LE, and saw some bad shit and stood against it. It was not easy but when you are right you are right and sometimes have to fight your way to the top of the Chain of Command to change things but change them I did,
We all know right from wrong even when the top doesn't or pretends not to and just goes with,"This is how we have always done it." and you know that is wrong.
In the end you may reach the top of the Chain of Command, to no advantage, but if you are right you will persist even if it has to go to Congress or the Courts and if that doesn't work it goes to the People that you serve and they will be with you if you are right.
It seldom goes that far as someone with a brain will step in and say, "This just needs to be dealt with," and guess what, You just won if you were right to begin with. FM
Nobody will admit that they did wrong or made a mistake. Tarnishes their name or reputation yet the problem persists and we can't have that but tarnished they are and no better than the criminals they defend.
I am not above making a mistake myself but when I do, I know it, and will use it to my advantage and not do that again.
That is what I am getting at. Sometimes the problem is at the top and sometimes at the bottom, some you can deal with on your own but some you can't.
Leadership comes from the top but sometimes it comes from the bottom if the top is fucked up.
That is when you upset the apple cart. It has to come from within and you have to stick with your guns if you know you are right.
I worked a Govt. job for 30 years, not in LE, and saw some bad shit and stood against it. It was not easy but when you are right you are right and sometimes have to fight your way to the top of the Chain of Command to change things but change them I did,
We all know right from wrong even when the top doesn't or pretends not to and just goes with,"This is how we have always done it." and you know that is wrong.
In the end you may reach the top of the Chain of Command, to no advantage, but if you are right you will persist even if it has to go to Congress or the Courts and if that doesn't work it goes to the People that you serve and they will be with you if you are right.
It seldom goes that far as someone with a brain will step in and say, "This just needs to be dealt with," and guess what, You just won if you were right to begin with. FM
I agree that the police should be held accountable for everything they do. I see the police where I live accountable. The ex Portland OR police chief shooting comes to mind. The reason he was held accountable for shooting his friend in the ass was a po-dunk local county Deputy called him on his shit and his Sheriff backed him all the way. I see large shithole municipalities PD's with communist mayors as the biggest violator of citizens rights. This whole thing is fucked. I wasn't there. They're investigating the officer isn't off Scott free. If a florist fucks up the flowers go to the wrong address. If a cook fucks up you get too much mayo. If a cop fucks up someone dies.
Police our own ranks? Get some fucktard that barely passes the academy barely passes their FTO they keep them on because they are Target Species. Years of paperwork reams of documentation and they stay on. You file complaints but they are sucking the big bosses dick. Word gets out you got a hardon for them and they come after you. You get put on the beach because you said "fuck" to some piece of shit millennial prosecutor who is afraid of his own shadow. One of your peers shoots someone he shouldn't have or shoots someone he should have and the whole world takes a giant shit on you. Management don't fucking care, public don't get it and you got 2 years left so you hide out try not not to lose your retirement by saying "fuck" to a prosecutor or giving screen test to some methed out freak who just pissed in your back seat. Time for some blu flu. I mean fuck it. Public thinks they can doit better have at it. I mean fuck.
Go ahead and blue flu all you want. Its a shit job at times but people been doing it, and doing it with less ammo than Barney Fife for a long goddam time, The go to approach today seems to be shoot first to avoid a breakin fuking finger nail and going home all safe without getting stressed. Looking at the firearm death numbers, if you take out suicides you have an 1 in 10 chance of being killed by the police then you do a criminal. Out of control shooting by cops needs to be addressed asap, he moved his hands is not a goddamn excuse to slaughter someone on the floor of a hotel halway, fk I cant even conjure an excuse for this murder of a citizen on his porch in the middle of the night in his pajamas. Shit is out f control, we need to reissue 38 cal police specials to a select few, get rid of the goddam swat teams, see what happens with police shootings.
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
Yes get rid of the swat teams. But first you should turn in your assault rifles. Obviously you can do everything with a .38 so you don’t need one.
I am not an armed agent of the state, I have rights, the state does not have rights they have citizens permission, you get how that works here or is this the crux f the problem?
DuneBoer, I feel your pain and frustration and honestly, I understand, especially Target Species.
All you can do is do your best and be honest. It is hard to be from the Old Guard and know how things should be but aren't, so do the best you can and change things for the better wherever you can.
You may think that no one knows or cares but that really does not matter as YOU know you did your best and when you retire or leave the bulb will come on for many as to how much you really did do and all they can do is try to do as good of a job as you did,
I was very unpopular where I worked and known as a nasty hardass but fair and honest with everyone I worked with and quick to criticize a foreman or two when I thought that they were fucking up or doing something wrong straight to their faces.
All of my annual reviews showed that but as to how my job was done all of them showed me at the top. I worked hard all of my life but was known to take no bullshit.
Something that I feel really good about, is that after I retired my replacement could not carry the work load that I did and they hired another man to help out and it keeps them both busy.
Neither is known as a hardass or grumpy, just busy trying to keep up with the work load and as far as I am concerned brown nosers that don't work hard enough.
It was hard for me to not treat everyone as an old Grunt Army Sgt. would and demand the best from them in all ways. I never was able to make that transition. I failed at that.
Do the best that you can do and don't back down when you know you are right and by all means be honest. If nothing else, you will be able to sleep well at night. Regards, FM
PS Jerry as far as I know it was a LE sniper/sharpshooter that put an end to the latest situation in Denver so I can't agree with you on doing away with all SWAT stuff. These guys just did it the right way with some thought behind what they did. Maybe call that training?
All you can do is do your best and be honest. It is hard to be from the Old Guard and know how things should be but aren't, so do the best you can and change things for the better wherever you can.
You may think that no one knows or cares but that really does not matter as YOU know you did your best and when you retire or leave the bulb will come on for many as to how much you really did do and all they can do is try to do as good of a job as you did,
I was very unpopular where I worked and known as a nasty hardass but fair and honest with everyone I worked with and quick to criticize a foreman or two when I thought that they were fucking up or doing something wrong straight to their faces.
All of my annual reviews showed that but as to how my job was done all of them showed me at the top. I worked hard all of my life but was known to take no bullshit.
Something that I feel really good about, is that after I retired my replacement could not carry the work load that I did and they hired another man to help out and it keeps them both busy.
Neither is known as a hardass or grumpy, just busy trying to keep up with the work load and as far as I am concerned brown nosers that don't work hard enough.
It was hard for me to not treat everyone as an old Grunt Army Sgt. would and demand the best from them in all ways. I never was able to make that transition. I failed at that.
Do the best that you can do and don't back down when you know you are right and by all means be honest. If nothing else, you will be able to sleep well at night. Regards, FM
PS Jerry as far as I know it was a LE sniper/sharpshooter that put an end to the latest situation in Denver so I can't agree with you on doing away with all SWAT stuff. These guys just did it the right way with some thought behind what they did. Maybe call that training?
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If the price to pay for having a police force is to have murderers walk free and just find another line of work........I'd rather have no police.
As I've said before, the only thing that keeps many of us from taking justice in our own hands is the consequences from the "justice" system. Remove those consequences and criminals will soon know what fear really means.
Just imagine if you had found your drill and stood up with it in hand as the cops rolled up..........
Change "rats" into "rights", and well, we get the gist... Southern boys buried above the MD who fought..... could be a reminder there are people willing to travel and fight for "rats"... just sayin... not putting words in any mouths....
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Damn your a semi nut job in my opinion. Do you not realize that the news blows everything up? Violent crime is down but if you watch the news you would think otherwise. A few bad cops and the news blasts it for a week and you think we should disband all cops.
"Misleading stats really, how many of the sworn in the UK or the other countries are armed? How many killing b government agents there vs here. I been to all those countries many many times and they do not have the presence of armed cops like we do.
as far a dirt bag pos gamer being used as a wedge to take rights away I am okay letting the gamer go, rather restrict the police before I give up any more rights."
Most of those countries that you quote not having cops around also BANNED GUNS. How do you feel about that? Should we follow England, Australia, Japan, etc and ban guns so we can have less cops out and about to make you happy?
"Go ahead and blue flu all you want. Its a shit job at times but people been doing it, and doing it with less ammo than Barney Fife for a long goddam time, The go to approach today seems to be shoot first to avoid a breakin fuking finger nail and going home all safe without getting stressed. Looking at the firearm death numbers, if you take out suicides you have an 1 in 10 chance of being killed by the police then you do a criminal. Out of control shooting by cops needs to be addressed asap, he moved his hands is not a goddamn excuse to slaughter someone on the floor of a hotel halway, fk I cant even conjure an excuse for this murder of a citizen on his porch in the middle of the night in his pajamas. Shit is out f control, we need to reissue 38 cal police specials to a select few, get rid of the goddam swat teams, see what happens with police shootings."
I have served 18 years as of right now in the military and never met a military guy with as twisted views as you. Based on your sermon, we should disband the army because of all the POS grunts that shot up innocent women and children in Afghanistan and Iraq, or the Army soldiers in Vietnam that mini gunned up surrendering women and children, or the Army soldiers at Abu Ghraib torturing and pissing on enemy combatants.
Also your numbers on being killed by cops is ridiculously off. Stop reading Wikipedia some time. http://www.startribune.com/police-shootings-the-risk-is-lower-than-you-probably-imagine/428044703/
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This thread is mostly about a particular individual who was wrongfully killed by police and the issues and facts surrounding that particular case. If you have something to contribute it would be most welcome. If I might be so bold, I'll suggest that your quoted post (while well written) adds little to the topic of this thread. Perhaps you would like to start a new thread where your post might fit better and stand on its own merits.
Most of mine is quoting ArmyJerry's 5 pages of ranting and hating on cops. I think you've confused the wrong person and need to message him.
I've read your anti-Jerry diatribe twice and I still can find nothing that pertains to the topic of this thread, the man who was killed while being swatted.
In that case none of his comments pertains to this thread as I did nothing more than quote and respond directly to multiple posts of his. And in the end, take my last sentence for what its worth which is directly applied to this topic about actual numbers of people being killed in the U.S by cops.
But this thread is not about Jerry or your dislike of him. Do you have an actual opinion about, this father who died from a police bullet? Do you think, the police officer was justified in taking the shot? Do you think, that the officer should have had his finger on the trigger? Do you think, better training could have prevented this? Do you think, police higher ups are ass covering? Do you think affirmative action hiring contributed to this incident?
All I have been able to determine from your content this far is that you think Jerry is an ahole.
Did you ask him the same thing when he rambled on for 5 pages about mostly nothing related to the topic? I get that you hate cops just as much as him and believe that 1 in 10 Americans are dying from cops even though I provided other information saying otherwise. I can post 12 stories from the past 2 weeks of innocent cops being shot for no reason as well but you would probably not give 2 shits about it or say its "their job". Anyways, to answer your questions, not all of the facts are out yet and I hate to Monday morning quarterback a cop on his decision making to pull the trigger. What I will say is if he was in the wrong, then he needs to be held criminally liable for taking an innocent persons life. Because of the media, cops get shit on around the clock. 99.99% are good cops and that .01% that is bad is like getting the one shitty doctor the one time you need one that makes a mistake on you.
Now you are full of shit! I do not hate the police. I support the police. I believe in law and order. But this thread is not about twelve irrelevant stories about some other topic. .01% really? The police officers I know think at least 1% of officers have some kind of problem. I think this man being shot in his home is unacceptable. I think the reason you have never heard an opinion like Jerry's in your 18 years in the service is because everyone knows you repete everything you hear up the chain of command as part of your routine ass kissing.
