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Swatted
- Thread starter Maggot
- Start date
I kinda agree, but do we truly think the police bear no responsibility? I don't. I think they ought to have a lot better reason before they storm someones house. It could be any one of us dead because of this hoax. I think the police should have to have a much better reason than "he was answering the door when we knocked" to kill someone.
Admittedly we are coming to that conclusion based on information from a journalist, but if I were on a jury and that was the information presented and the defense attorney could not disprove any of it, I would send him and his boss to jail.
Maggot, I know that you like keeping us abreast of goings on, but underlining this in fluorescent marker here probably isn't a good idea.
I can think of at least one rat-shit fuck-brain here who would do this if he could.
I can think of at least one rat-shit fuck-brain here who would do this if he could.
In negligence, the cops are the ones with the deep pockets. It is very hard to sue the gov, but my friend did it when his son was killed by a perp going around a poorly constructed road block.
This looks like one of those cases.
This looks like one of those cases.
i'll also say the little bastard that called in needs to do a shit ton of time. or better yet, hand him over to the family of the slain father.
Thats why I didnt mention the cop. We dont have enough info to make a call. It doeant lool goof for him though.
Article I read this morning said the victim "moved a hand toward the waistline" when ordered to put his hands up. It also mentioned the shithead who made the call is now under arrest in LA.
I bet the cop was standing right exposed in the middle of the doorway with almost all the slack out of the trigger. I haven't seen a house yet where you could not find a corner for at least concealment from which to see who comes to the door.
What a shitshow all around.
We shall see.......
I bet the cop was standing right exposed in the middle of the doorway with almost all the slack out of the trigger. I haven't seen a house yet where you could not find a corner for at least concealment from which to see who comes to the door.
What a shitshow all around.
We shall see.......
If indeed this is the only reason that the father and home owner was shot then this was murder.
This is just bad shit, all around. The cop and the victim...smdh...a bad combination of events to be sure. The kid who called this shit in, should go to jail for a long time...
Cop gotta go to jail. Cops are seeing guns everywhere, like funing haily joe osmuth seen dead people, maybe its time to start disarming the pussy cops and leaving the non pussy cops with guns to handle actual bad situations, Either way, cops are killing citizen at an alarming rate. probably teh same murder rate as always but just seeing evidence and hearing about it now with technology.Something tells me you will see a direct rise in cops murdering citizens with the implementation of inclusion and diversity hires, no more filter for the weak ones. Citizens will start shooting back if this continues, reasonable fear goes both ways.
I'm pro police, and very pro law and order. But for some police officers there could come a day when they should stay home. If a police officer wakes up in the morning and thinks: "hmmm today if we get a 911 call about some serious shit (hense forth to be written as SSS) I'm just going to go kick down a door and shoot the first motherfucker I see." Then he should stay home that day. If he thinks that too often he should begin to consider that he might be more suitable for a different kind of work. Possible a kind of work where he need not deal with SSS, but only RMS (really minor shit.)
I sure hope we find a way to stop this short of that. History shows that citizens attempting to defend themselves against the armed forces of the state do not generally succeed. At Ruby Ridge Randy Weaver won the law suit in the end but it cost him his wife and son. He should have just gone to court. The Branch Davidians were more typical. When the government lost got tired of waiting they just burned them all to death, men women and children, then went on TV and smirked about the poor construction of their home.
I 100% agree that the police need to be restrained from harming innocent civilians. But I do not believe that it would be good to use the threat of deadly force to restrain them. We must use the rule of law. This officer (if the facts are as reported) must be convicted of murder.
That Arizona execution is still fresh in my mind, that shooting of the homeless bum in ABQ a few years back got me looking harder at this subject and I gotta say I think we have a serious issue with police, who are armed agents of the state, murdering citizens. I very well could be conditioning of the population for things to come outta the establishment as they get nervous. Good cops got to speak out and self select who stays in the profession.
At least the Swatter is an adult. Most of the time, they're kids and the respective justice system chooses to do nothing. Hopefully, that's not the case here....
The only thing the body cam footage revealed to me it that the police knocked very loudly bringing the homeowner quickly to see wtf was going on then killed him. More or less what the stories so far have said.
Anyone hoping for a quick resolution should remember the case where the Minnesota mayor hired a Somali to go kill who ever he felt like who then went and murdered a woman in her PJ's. No charges there yet.
Anyone hoping for a quick resolution should remember the case where the Minnesota mayor hired a Somali to go kill who ever he felt like who then went and murdered a woman in her PJ's. No charges there yet.
We should start a business. We could call it :
Magogt-Skunk Enterprises.
Or if you insist of first billing:
Skunk-Maggot Enterprises.
bet we'd be popular.
Hmm. Interesting thought. But, a business doing what? Injecting reason and objectivity into discussions of law enforcement shootings...? Furtherance of the premise of Innocent until Proven Guilty...?
I don't think we'd make much money on the Hide!
I don't think we'd make much money on the Hide!
Glad I took time to read your second line before replying.
And fuck, Navy beat the hell out of us.
Yeah the bodycam footage doesn't show much, but it does show the officers were barricaded behind vehicles on the other side of the street. If you feel threatened that easily by a guy staring into half a dozen flood lamps and rifles pointed at him as he walks out his front door, that could potentially have a handgun in his waistband, police work isn't for you.
When I read the story this morning I instantly started running it through my head on how I would best respond to a call like that back when I was on the job. A lot depends on Dept SOP, but I'm genuinely curious to get some ideas from you guys on how you as a cop would literally approach this call? That is not bait, it's is not rhetorical, it is a genuine request for ideas on how you'd deal with that call if you were dispatched.
Before I even start, there will be the wave of people who will be all upset about "How can you be against the police, you either have to be for them unquestioningly or your one of the evil police haters".
NO, I am one of the most dedicated to law and order people there is and I fully support having a well paid, well equipped, well trained, well educated professional police force and treat them with respect anytime I can and am happy to assist in any way I can if they need my assistance.
BUT I'm not one of these head up my backside, blinders on, refusing to see the actual truth people who are living in some "righteous" fantasy world. I can clearly see how the honorable profession and good name of the police are being systematically destroyed by their own unions, their own command structure & politically correct politicians, as they refuse to harshly and immediately deal with those officers that loose it and refuse to enforce professional standards for conduct and respecting citizens proper constitutional rights, and remembering that the police are the watchmen hired by the citizens rather than control force for the local government to use at their whim. Not to mention the utter corruption of using the police as revenue collectors to bolster local budgets. (Which Oklahoma just took to a new level of evil with draining peoples credit cards / debit cards / gifts cards on the side of the road, in a crooked deal with some greedy "service" company.)
Most times by the time an out of control police officer murders someone & creates a public uproar, possible riots and a multimillion dollar set of lawsuits, they have a long history of excessive force and brutality complaints against them, but are still somehow employed. They should have been kicked out of the police department years ago.
The trigger happy police officer that killed the innocent unarmed man shouldn't be having a paid vacation, he should at the very least be suspended without pay if not cooling his heels in jail. WATCH THE VIDEO, the police are in NO danger at all (except for themselves), The one police person yelling commands wasn't even through screaming a command when somebody decided they wanted to get a kill in. The poor father was stumbling out of his door in the pitch dark into a bunch of lights shining in his eyes and voices screaming, If your hands are at your sides as they normally are when walking, you have to raise them up past your waist to get them above your head. The police were in NO danger whatsoever from anyone but themselves.
Ask yourself if one of your kids or relatives was sound asleep and then was woken up suddenly by a bunch of noise and opened the door to blinding lights shining in their face and different hoarse screams with all different commands being yelled at them, how long would it take them to actually understand what is happening, have all their faculties kick in and then begin to try to comprehend if they should do what the one hoarse voice yelling at them to step forward first, or the other hoarse voice yelling at them to stand still & raise their hands, or another raspy voice screaming to freeze and not make any moves. Oh sorry time's up 2 seconds later one of the voices decided to just kill them... happy now are you?
The police were totally out of control and hugely unprofessional in this situation, not even doing the slightest bit of checking to see if this is actually a valid call, just rolling up to some poor innocent family sleeping soundly for the night and gunning down a father in cold blood. The Police caused the local issue and were the only danger to anyone at that time, they don't get to claim they were "scared". They didn't call an ambulance for him immediately or try any life saving steps, they WANTED HIM DEAD, then forcing the kids to step over the body of their dying relative as men with guns terrorize them. "Some prankster kid from across the country scared us" is NOT an excuse to go killing people in cold blood.
I am so sick and fed up with all the excuses that people who refuse to see the truth keep saying. This is what WE THE PEOPLE hire the police to protect us from. WE THE PEOPLE are the ones who have a Constitutional right to be safe and secure in our own houses, persons and papers from government excesses. But if the police are going to be acting no better than this, it might be time we just ditch them and have our own civilian militia of local citizens, till we can rebuild a well paid professional police force of stable officers.
I'm sure there will also be a bunch of apologists as normal who will say "well there was a call that came in so, the police just had to come in and couldn't take any chances so of course they had to kill someone" That is such garbage, NO attempt was made to see if it was a false call, no attempts to determine if the idiot on the phone actually was there, no verification that the call was coming from a number or a cell phone in the area, NO scouting the area out and listening for any noises in the house, NO attempts to be anything other than a bunch of rampaging thugs. "Swatting" is a well known issue (at least 100 times more common than "terrorism") and there is no excuse not to do basic checks. If you listen to the 911 audio, there are so many clues in the idiots voice and words, that this is quite possibly a fake.
Too many people who claim to be the "good decent ones" seem to think it's fine for the police to go around executing people in cold blood because "Well they didn't obey whatever command I was shouting fast enough" or "Well they made me nervous and my roid shrunken balls felt a twinge" or "when in doubt just start shooting first and check out the situation later". That kind of garbage doesn't cut it for a moment when a normal civilian uses deadly force to defend themselves, so it shouldn't be allowed for people who are supposed to be well trained, well armed, well armored, well backed up professionals.
The root of this problem however is that the police are not held personally criminally & financially responsible for their actions when they step out of line like they should be. Because they know they will get away with murder, and their buddies, their department, their union will all cover for them. And if there is any civil suits, the taxpayers get to fork out more of their hard earned money for it and nothing comes out of the pockets of those responsible. Just look at the example ongoing of that Somali thug in uniform with a long history of brutality complaints, false arrest complaints, extortion, violence to women, and general African level thuggery that somehow was still employed in Minneapolis (probably because he was a darker skin toned & maybe Muslim for bonus politically correct stats) when he murdered the little snowflake. The prosecutor says "Well he won't say anything to us, so we don't have any information to decide about charges"???? Since when could you not bring charges against a clear cut case of murder because the suspect refuses to talk?
I'm sure there will be a whole pile of people going on about "so many good police officers... only one or two bad" Well when the supposed "good" ones cover for the "bad" ones, and their unions blatantly try to spin unbelievable piles of excrement in statements supporting officers who long ago should have been fired, they all become tainted with the same crime. YES most of the police officers are fine dedicated upstanding caring individuals, but by their refusal to demand that those unworthy of the uniform are removed swiftly, they let themselves and their profession become tainted.
As for the stupid gamer, how about after we deal Strongly, Publically and Immediately with the police officer that did the killing, we let any of his fellow officers or friends who feel the punishment is unfair, express their "displeasure" directly to the waste of humanity who got the whole thing started, if they happen to still be breathing afterwards, we can lock them up in jail for life. Perhaps if the little punks doing the "swatting" calls realized they would get a bit of direct justice and an immediate and public world of hurt on them, they might think twice about the whole idea.
You may wonder why I'm more upset about the wrong actions of the police than the stupid gamer (who deserves very harsh and immediate punishment)... it's simple, if some stupid little prankster can call up your vaunted great local police department from across the country and have them go rampaging out and killing innocent people in their own homes, it's not a matter of "oops well mmm... stuff happens... we'll get the prankster" It means there is something hugely wrong with the police department and it is more important to sort them out and then get to dealing with the evil prankster, because there will always be evil people trying to do pranks.
Hopefully at least the family of the victim will sue the city in federal court for enough bankrupt the city & make the local citizens ask why all their tax money is gone, which might make the politicians worried about the next election and might make the politicians decide to actually force some reforms of the local police department. It's about all the family of the victim can hope for these days since actual justice is almost always denied one way or another.
NO, I am one of the most dedicated to law and order people there is and I fully support having a well paid, well equipped, well trained, well educated professional police force and treat them with respect anytime I can and am happy to assist in any way I can if they need my assistance.
BUT I'm not one of these head up my backside, blinders on, refusing to see the actual truth people who are living in some "righteous" fantasy world. I can clearly see how the honorable profession and good name of the police are being systematically destroyed by their own unions, their own command structure & politically correct politicians, as they refuse to harshly and immediately deal with those officers that loose it and refuse to enforce professional standards for conduct and respecting citizens proper constitutional rights, and remembering that the police are the watchmen hired by the citizens rather than control force for the local government to use at their whim. Not to mention the utter corruption of using the police as revenue collectors to bolster local budgets. (Which Oklahoma just took to a new level of evil with draining peoples credit cards / debit cards / gifts cards on the side of the road, in a crooked deal with some greedy "service" company.)
Most times by the time an out of control police officer murders someone & creates a public uproar, possible riots and a multimillion dollar set of lawsuits, they have a long history of excessive force and brutality complaints against them, but are still somehow employed. They should have been kicked out of the police department years ago.
The trigger happy police officer that killed the innocent unarmed man shouldn't be having a paid vacation, he should at the very least be suspended without pay if not cooling his heels in jail. WATCH THE VIDEO, the police are in NO danger at all (except for themselves), The one police person yelling commands wasn't even through screaming a command when somebody decided they wanted to get a kill in. The poor father was stumbling out of his door in the pitch dark into a bunch of lights shining in his eyes and voices screaming, If your hands are at your sides as they normally are when walking, you have to raise them up past your waist to get them above your head. The police were in NO danger whatsoever from anyone but themselves.
Ask yourself if one of your kids or relatives was sound asleep and then was woken up suddenly by a bunch of noise and opened the door to blinding lights shining in their face and different hoarse screams with all different commands being yelled at them, how long would it take them to actually understand what is happening, have all their faculties kick in and then begin to try to comprehend if they should do what the one hoarse voice yelling at them to step forward first, or the other hoarse voice yelling at them to stand still & raise their hands, or another raspy voice screaming to freeze and not make any moves. Oh sorry time's up 2 seconds later one of the voices decided to just kill them... happy now are you?
The police were totally out of control and hugely unprofessional in this situation, not even doing the slightest bit of checking to see if this is actually a valid call, just rolling up to some poor innocent family sleeping soundly for the night and gunning down a father in cold blood. The Police caused the local issue and were the only danger to anyone at that time, they don't get to claim they were "scared". They didn't call an ambulance for him immediately or try any life saving steps, they WANTED HIM DEAD, then forcing the kids to step over the body of their dying relative as men with guns terrorize them. "Some prankster kid from across the country scared us" is NOT an excuse to go killing people in cold blood.
I am so sick and fed up with all the excuses that people who refuse to see the truth keep saying. This is what WE THE PEOPLE hire the police to protect us from. WE THE PEOPLE are the ones who have a Constitutional right to be safe and secure in our own houses, persons and papers from government excesses. But if the police are going to be acting no better than this, it might be time we just ditch them and have our own civilian militia of local citizens, till we can rebuild a well paid professional police force of stable officers.
I'm sure there will also be a bunch of apologists as normal who will say "well there was a call that came in so, the police just had to come in and couldn't take any chances so of course they had to kill someone" That is such garbage, NO attempt was made to see if it was a false call, no attempts to determine if the idiot on the phone actually was there, no verification that the call was coming from a number or a cell phone in the area, NO scouting the area out and listening for any noises in the house, NO attempts to be anything other than a bunch of rampaging thugs. "Swatting" is a well known issue (at least 100 times more common than "terrorism") and there is no excuse not to do basic checks. If you listen to the 911 audio, there are so many clues in the idiots voice and words, that this is quite possibly a fake.
Too many people who claim to be the "good decent ones" seem to think it's fine for the police to go around executing people in cold blood because "Well they didn't obey whatever command I was shouting fast enough" or "Well they made me nervous and my roid shrunken balls felt a twinge" or "when in doubt just start shooting first and check out the situation later". That kind of garbage doesn't cut it for a moment when a normal civilian uses deadly force to defend themselves, so it shouldn't be allowed for people who are supposed to be well trained, well armed, well armored, well backed up professionals.
The root of this problem however is that the police are not held personally criminally & financially responsible for their actions when they step out of line like they should be. Because they know they will get away with murder, and their buddies, their department, their union will all cover for them. And if there is any civil suits, the taxpayers get to fork out more of their hard earned money for it and nothing comes out of the pockets of those responsible. Just look at the example ongoing of that Somali thug in uniform with a long history of brutality complaints, false arrest complaints, extortion, violence to women, and general African level thuggery that somehow was still employed in Minneapolis (probably because he was a darker skin toned & maybe Muslim for bonus politically correct stats) when he murdered the little snowflake. The prosecutor says "Well he won't say anything to us, so we don't have any information to decide about charges"???? Since when could you not bring charges against a clear cut case of murder because the suspect refuses to talk?
I'm sure there will be a whole pile of people going on about "so many good police officers... only one or two bad" Well when the supposed "good" ones cover for the "bad" ones, and their unions blatantly try to spin unbelievable piles of excrement in statements supporting officers who long ago should have been fired, they all become tainted with the same crime. YES most of the police officers are fine dedicated upstanding caring individuals, but by their refusal to demand that those unworthy of the uniform are removed swiftly, they let themselves and their profession become tainted.
As for the stupid gamer, how about after we deal Strongly, Publically and Immediately with the police officer that did the killing, we let any of his fellow officers or friends who feel the punishment is unfair, express their "displeasure" directly to the waste of humanity who got the whole thing started, if they happen to still be breathing afterwards, we can lock them up in jail for life. Perhaps if the little punks doing the "swatting" calls realized they would get a bit of direct justice and an immediate and public world of hurt on them, they might think twice about the whole idea.
You may wonder why I'm more upset about the wrong actions of the police than the stupid gamer (who deserves very harsh and immediate punishment)... it's simple, if some stupid little prankster can call up your vaunted great local police department from across the country and have them go rampaging out and killing innocent people in their own homes, it's not a matter of "oops well mmm... stuff happens... we'll get the prankster" It means there is something hugely wrong with the police department and it is more important to sort them out and then get to dealing with the evil prankster, because there will always be evil people trying to do pranks.
Hopefully at least the family of the victim will sue the city in federal court for enough bankrupt the city & make the local citizens ask why all their tax money is gone, which might make the politicians worried about the next election and might make the politicians decide to actually force some reforms of the local police department. It's about all the family of the victim can hope for these days since actual justice is almost always denied one way or another.
Ive not been in the situation but from what Ive read, domestic violence calls are the most explosive LEO have to deal with. A man will do more stupid shit over a woman than anything, drugs, booze, money. Pussy just makes ya stupid at times. So:
Very carefully. With body armor on. Maybe ask the one in question to step outside from A DISTANCE.
Im not throwing rocks but this one just seems wrong. He will no doubt scakt because of "We thought we sas a gun" but it appears to me the cop was in the wrong.
This shows nothing but the lack of competence by the police an 911. If it were me when I filed the lawsuit I would include the 911 system, the police, an the caller. Everyone of them are equally responsible in the chain of events that led to the mans death. Do we as a nation now take anyone/everyone's word for any event ? I don't I assure you. If I would have 100% believed "the story" it would have went wrong many times. You are the only one responsible for your action if you are provoked into action w/o doing your own do diligence. The door kickers of today are turning an have turned into mindless robots, basing their reactions on untruths. You have to be locked an cocked but, when events do not fit the narrative you better keep the safety pin in place, or get out of the venue all together.
Regardless of your training, or what you are told. It's your ass on the line after you pull the trigger, an that is pure court room fact. LE an 911 is supposed to be stocked with professionals only, but it seems basement dwellers are rapidly, taking over.
Regardless of your training, or what you are told. It's your ass on the line after you pull the trigger, an that is pure court room fact. LE an 911 is supposed to be stocked with professionals only, but it seems basement dwellers are rapidly, taking over.
For whatever reason the body cam won't play for me, so I'm going from description, and it sounds about how I'd picture this situation: no way does a call like that go out on the air without a LOT of cops showing up. That already makes it a "thing" in terms of trying to de-escalate. With the threat of killing your family and burning down the house, someone walking up to the door and knocking probably isn't in the cards. Very, very quickly the prank has to be taken seriously because of the ramifications if it isn't.
The issue here seems to be that an officer shot because he "could" and not necessarily because he "should". Distance and cover always factor into perceived threats.
You are 100% correct about the 911 system being full of idiots these days.
And that is before people start trying to prank or fool them.
There was a case over here in Fort Worth, TX where an officer recently got fired for his unprofessional conduct during an encounter, and while I support his firing (if nothing else for the cause of trying to stack BS charges that stretch the limits of credulity), the real problem was the 911 operator and their total and utter ineptitude and downright unbelievable levels of stupidity.
The police officer should be suing the 911 operator and contractors for ruining his career.
911 call comes in: "My ex boyfriend has gone crazy and is smashing up my car and might be about to come after me. I have a knife and I might have to stab him if he attacks me to defend myself.. can you get someone over here right away"
911 idiot operator tells the police officer "Woman is threatening to stab her boyfriend"... nothing else...
It is really hard not to mess up when you are given the totally ass backwards story.
I managed to see the video. The Axon cam footage was from an officer next to the one who took the shot. They were across the street from behind the barricade of a patrol unit. It looked to be no less than thirty yards ... *CoUgH*
The body cam video is not from the cop who did the shooting or from someone else standing next to him at the doorway. The video is from some cop across the street. So there's not much one can see for sure.
What I did see was one, maybe two, cops by themselves knocking on this guy's door. If the situation is that explosive, is that really the smartest fucking thing to do? Knock and then have the door opened to be standing face to face with someone who allegedly is very violent? Common sense says no.
Either stand off and call the occupants out or get armored up and bust that door down and get in there as fast as possible to control the situation. Those are the first two options that jump into my layman's mind.
I cannot imagine the adrenaline going through someone breaching a door into the kind of violence that has been (falsely) reported, but RESTRAINT must be exercised. Shooting someone over the slightest of movements is fraught with all kinds of problems (mostly for the guy who gets shot) as shown here and in Arizona where some other cop wasted a guy who was doing his best to comply and made one wrong (in the mind of the cop) hand move.
Alleged guy is dead on floor already, surround house and wait, or knock on door stand back and wait, not shooting the first person that opens the dam door. I think the hero complex has got our of control with "first" responders, everyone wants to be Dirty Harry but they dont have the balls for it and shoot at the first thing they see once frightened. Many cops do have this coolness but you never hear about a cool hand luke not shooting someone. You hear about the ones murdering innocents and even unjustly murdering guilty ones. My gut and experience hanging out with cops tells me that most are the cool ones but they cool ones stopped weeding out the pussies a decade or two ago and we are seeing the results now.
Note to self, never tell 911 that I am armed (if I am) when calling to report a violent confrontation. I'd rather control how and when that is made known.
Wait a minute, now that I look at it again I think you may be right. That's even more inexcusable.
That's straight up execution.
never call 911 , its dangerous to have interactions with the police evidently. handle shit yourself or walk away, do not ever call the police. This is how ghetto police relations work. The ghetto people might have a point here.
The department chief (I'm assuming? He had birds on his collar.) identified the camera as being on an officer next to the shooter.
I heard that and I couldn't begin to imagine how many slack-on-the-floor jaws there were at that presser.
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Before I handed a gun to my seven year old he understood that he needed to be sure of his target. Is it really too much to ask a cop in another mans house to be sure he is a bad guy doing a bad thing before you kill him. If you are out deer hunting and you see something brown moving, can you shoot it? NO! You must be sure it is a deer not a dog or a lady in a brown jacket walking her dog. Let me return your question with another question. Even if this guy did have a gun would it have been ok for the police to kill him in that situation?
For me the answer is that he should not have been killed, even it he answered the door of HIS HOUSE with a gun in his hand. Absent factual evidence that they did not have, they should not have been much slower to resort to lethal force.
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
Well, I'd arrive on scene quietly, look around, see what the situation looks like, listen, try to hear something, and if I didn't get that eery feeling like shit is about to go down, I'd probably go knock on the door somewhat authoritatively and see where that gets me. Maybe dead, maybe injured, but that's life.
If I did get that eery feeling, I'd probably try to establish contact from a better vantage point than the front door, but my main concern would be the hostages, so it'd be close enough to get in somehow if things escalated.
Hypothetically speaking, that is.
