Rifle Scopes Target blurry when parallax set perfectly. NF ACTAR 7-35x56 F1

[adventuresnortheast]

Hi everyone,

Going through mounting, fitting, and zeroing a new NF 7-35x56 F1 TReMoR3.

For each of my scopes, I like to take notes on precise parallax settings for given ranges, 50, 100, 200, 300 etc.

After setting the diopter and reticle against the sky, at max zoom, at infinity parallax, I set about determining the parallax setting at different ranges (just out to 200 at my home range, but it’s a start)

Although I was able to get the radical pinned to the target at each range as expected, to my surprise the target was blurry at the best parallax setting at 50 and 100 yards (got so stuck on this I didn’t even check 200 yards). This occurred at 35x and 20x. Didn’t check at lower. At each magnification setting and it both distances, the optima parallax setting was just a little bit off from the setting that would leave the target in the sharpest focus. The setting that left the target in sharpest focus allowed the reticle to move as much as .4 MIl when nodding my head.

All parallax observations made with the rifle in bags and both with my head in normal position behind the rifle and also with my cheek off the rifle to make sure cheek pressure want moving the rifle giving a false impression of reticle movement.

I haven’t experienced this with any of my other scopes, several Vortex, including Razor HD Gen2 4-27x56, and two Athlon.

I reperformed they diopter adjustment with no improvement. I never thought this setting had impact on the target focus, just the radical, but I wanted to be sure.

I’ll phone NF support on Monday, but thought you folks would like to hear about this, and might have run into it before, hopefully discovering a solution.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Happens. If it’s far enough off that it’s annoying, send it back and they will adjust it so that parallax and focus is closer to one another.

 

[JFR]

I have seen this with two scopes, two different brands. Returning them and waiting is all I know to do.

JFR

 

[Steel+Killer]

That is the problem I had with my 5-25 ATACR and from what I have read on this and other forums seems to be a pretty common experience with NF I got tired of fighting it and sold mine.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

That is the problem I had with my 5-25 ATACR and from what I have read on this and other forums seems to be a pretty common experience with NF I got tired of fighting it and sold mine.

NF is not the only Mfg out there with this problem, but you mostly see it more in scopes of 14X or better, an at closer ranges when the power is dial way up.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Adjust the rear eye piece?

 

[adventuresnortheast]

Adjust the rear eye piece?

I did try to adjust it. No setting seems to allow for a sharp target with no parrallax.

 

[adventuresnortheast]

NF is not the only Mfg out there with this problem, but you mostly see it more in scopes of 14X or better, an at closer ranges when the power is dial way up.

Sounds like I’ll probably need to send it in then.

 

[Baner]

I have no issues with mine, just have to turn the parallax until i have a sharp sight picture and it's perfect.

Would send it in and let them adjust it.

 

[Steel head]

I can remember only one scope out of maybe a dozen or more where it was perfectly crisp and parallax free for me.

It was a Hensolt 4X16.

I just dial out parallax and shoot.

I just shot a brand new Atacr F1 5X25 today and it was slightly off focus to get it parallax free.

 

[JFR]

The two I had problems with were blurry at every parallax setting except one (past 100 yds). For example: when shooting anywhere between 200-2000, all parallax knob settings would result in too blurry an image to clearly see the target or hits unless the knob was set at 300.

JFR

 

[Nik H]

I had this same issue with my NF 7-35. There is nothing wrong with the scope unless it is super far off. My scope never would have perfect parallax when image was focused at optimal clarity.

I ended up sending it back...came back as no issue found.

I finally got it dialed in and it is a consequence of the long travel diopter adjustment. The Euro scopes have a diopter adjustment that can focus in less than a single turn. NF scopes have a HUGELY long diopter adjustment. In fact, if you look closely you will see that the reticle focus may not change for a complete turn or more depending on your eyesight. However, that is not really the case.

Long and short of it is that setting diopter correctly on a NF is nothing like doing so on my S&B or Khales. Lot more work and a lot of back and forth. Need to pay attention to the focus on the outer edges of the reticle versus the center of the reticle. If you’re patient, it will converge and you will be all set. My parallax and focus is now as good as with any other scope. There is a reason why NF did it that way or so I am told.

BTW, forget the range numbers on the parallax knob as they are not too accurate.

 

[918v]

Also went through this with NF5-25 and NF said there wasn’t anything wrong with it so I upgraded to S&B and the problem went away.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

So I've seen this same thing with NF and SB. I will crank the power to +15-20x and dial the parallax then at the best setting the parallax knob is way off and the target is still somewhat blurry. The way it was explained to me is that it has a lot to do with smaller exit pupils at higher mags and just being too high of a magnification for the distance you are on. A lot of these higher end scope will pick up so much atmospheric noise that it will be hard to get a perfectly crisp image. The range I shoot at also has an overhang so there is also less light coming into the objective. Like Nik said above, ignore the numbers on parallax. I have no idea why some companies insist on printing numbers on them.

 

[HDWRENCH]

I did try to adjust it. No setting seems to allow for a sharp target with no parrallax.

Funny I dealt with this and to honest ZERO reason for a scope that cost as much as they do to have this issue then get some smart ass guy on the phone acting like your the dumb ass that has no idea how to use the scope got it back same issue back to them again they did repair it ( not before trying to make me feel stupid and it was my issue ) I sold it TO me NF is a over priced scope and with a great warranty that you get to use way too often . I know this is against the norm as there seems to be a ton of NF guys that will use nothing but that brand to me you can keep them .

Maybe at some point they will understand that they could in fact have a bad scope before acting the way they do . But maybe I just had one bad experience ?? could be but the attitude I got I am done

 

[98Vandal]

I contacted NF about this issue some time ago and they told me that the numbers indicated on the parallax knob don't necessarily correlate to that specific distance. They recommended that I just adjust the parallax knob until the parallax is eliminated and don't remain focused on the numbers on the knob. It works but it definitely begs the question of, "Why put a number there if it's irrelevant?"

Interestingly enough, I have a S&B PM II and a Vortex Razor HD that "behave" in a similar manner.......

 

[Nik H]

Funny I dealt with this and to honest ZERO reason for a scope that cost as much as they do to have this issue then get some smart ass guy on the phone acting like your the dumb ass that has no idea how to use the scope got it back same issue back to them again they did repair it ( not before trying to make me feel stupid and it was my issue ) I sold it TO me NF is a over priced scope and with a great warranty that you get to use way too often . I know this is against the norm as there seems to be a ton of NF guys that will use nothing but that brand to me you can keep them .

Maybe at some point they will understand that they could in fact have a bad scope before acting the way they do . But maybe I just had one bad experience ?? could be but the attitude I got I am done

There is no issue. It is just different from the Euro scopes so people have no clue how to deal

 

[hk dave]

There are scopes that I can’t set the diopter using infinity and the sky. Half the range of the diopter is perfectly sharp to me.

In those situations I place a target at 100 yards with very obvious shapes and letters and such, then I get the image parallax free and then adjust the diopter until the reticle is sharp. I go back and forth between the two until the reticle is sharp and there’s no parallax error.

I then verify at multiple distances until I’m happy. Works for me.

 

[McMillan]

I had this on another scope brand

 

[odoylerules]

My Leupold mark 5 has this issue too. It’s not terrible, but still there

 

[HDWRENCH]

There is no issue. It is just different from the Euro scopes so people have no clue how to deal

Funny the last one they sent was spot on . so there is a issue . I have a few other FFP that are fine , i have not run into this with my others . Your opinion my opinion I know what I dealt with and it was very bad . again if you like NF great keep it I will never spend my hard earned money on that brand that simple

 

[Fig]

I’m not following the idea of the parallax being “best” AND blurry...? Are you talking about the hash marks on the parallax knob not correlating to the clearest picture at a given range?

 

[918v]

There is no issue. It is just different from the Euro scopes so people have no clue how to deal

No problem with 3-15 F1. No problem with numerous Leupolds. I know how to adjust the diopter.

 

[Nik H]

Funny the last one they sent was spot on . so there is a issue . I have a few other FFP that are fine , i have not run into this with my others . Your opinion my opinion I know what I dealt with and it was very bad . again if you like NF great keep it I will never spend my hard earned money on that brand that simple

No other FFP scope has the same long travel diopter adjustment as NF does.

You keep buying what you want. NF will do fine without your “hard earned” money

 

[wade2big]

I’m not following the idea of the parallax being “best” AND blurry...? Are you talking about the hash marks on the parallax knob not correlating to the clearest picture at a given range?

He is saying that when he dials out parralax to where the reticle doesn’t move around on the target when he is moving around the scope’s eyebox, the target is blurry. If he adjusts to where the target is clear, the reticle will move when he moves his eye around.

Me personally I just clear the image and pull the trigger. Parallax to me is a non issue. An internet issue at best.

 

[Nik H]

No problem with 3-15 F1. No problem with numerous Leupolds. I know how to adjust the diopter.

I generally respect all of your posts so I’ll take your word on it. I own a few NF scopes and it took a bit to figure it out. I am happy with them and I’ll take my 7-35 over any of my Benders

 

[Nik H]

He is saying that when he dials out parralax to where the reticle doesn’t move around on the target when he is moving around the scope’s eyebox, the target is blurry. If he adjusts to where the target is clear, the reticle will move when he moves his eye around.

Me personally I just clear the image and pull the trigger. Parallax to me is a non issue. An internet issue at best.

Bingo

 

[HDWRENCH]

No other FFP scope has the same long travel diopter adjustment as NF does.

You keep buying what you want. NF will do fine without your “hard earned” money

BWHAHAHA you funny .

 

[JFR]

I'm not sure who you are asking, Fig, but, in my case with two scopes of different brand, wherever you decided to look across the horizon, the image would only be clear on a particular parallax knob setting (such as 300).

JFR

 

[FourT6and2]

It means your diopter isn't set properly. The parallax knob is simply a focus control. Diopter adjustment sets the focal plane of the reticle. Parallax sets the focal plane of the target. When both are adjusted properly, both focal planes intersect at your eye. Therefore there is no parallax error.

So why is your target blurry?

Because the whole thing about setting reticle focus at infinity against the sky or a wall is a bit misleading. Do that as a first step. But then you need to get out at distance and look at a target. Set your parallax control to eliminate parallax like what you've done. If your target is now blurry (and not from mirage), then you need to slightly adjust the diopter to bring your target in focus. Then re-adjust your parallax. Do this a few times and it will fine tune everything. Do it at different distances as well.

NOTE: When you adjust your diopter, do not try to focus your eye on the reticle. Your eye needs to be relaxed (i.e. not using eye muscles to try to focus on something). This means you need to be looking at "infinity." Look at the horizon for 5-10 seconds so your eye relaxes. Then move behind your scope and get sight picture while still focusing your eye at infinity. Adjust diopter. Now look at the horizon again. Back behind rifle and adjust diopter. Back and forth a few times.

If you do all of this, your parallax setting will always give you a sharp target, sharp reticle, and zero parallax error. And you will reduce eye fatigue.

You should be able to have a cheek weld with your eyes closed, like you're sleeping on your rifle. Then open your eyes and immediate have a clear sight picture without trying to refocus or strain your eyes. Then you know it's all set right.

 

[FourT6and2]

What that all means is when you look at your reticle through the scope, you shouldn't be focusing on the reticle like it's 3" in front of your face. This will strain your eyes and lead to a blurry target. It should seem like the reticle is 600 yards away or whatever.

 

[hk dave]

FourT6and2 is the one that turned me onto his method of diopter adjustment.

I point my scope at the sky and infinity and get my diopter set as close as I can.

I setup a target at 100 yards... I let my eyes focus on the target... I disregard the reticle altogether.

Once the target is sharp using the parallax knob, I move my diopter until the reticle is razor sharp WHILE focusing on the target with my eye.

I confirm parallax free at multiple distances and run with it.

 

[hk dave]

Looks like he beat me to it.

 

[jakelly]

So what you’re saying 46-2 is that sharp focus and zero parallax error are always simultaneously possible?

For those that had the problem fixed, there is/was something off inside the scope? Did you move through the entire diopter range?

 

[VegasHKShooter]

Also went through this with NF5-25 and NF said there wasn’t anything wrong with it so I upgraded to S&B and the problem went away.

I absolutely do not think the S&B 5-25 PMII is an upgrade at all. In fact, I traded my PMII for my ATACR. Now, as crazy as that sounds to YOU, is as silly as your statement sounds to me.
Point is: everyone’s eyes see and focus different. One person’s “OMG” might be another’s “meh.”

Some Other considerations in this debate are: time of day, how tired are your eyes, what is the ambient lighting, how are the shadows falling, etc. There are many factors that go into how our eyes see and focus and perceive images. Seldom is EVERYTHING going to be perfect the second you look at it.

 

[918v]

I absolutely do not think the S&B 5-25 PMII is an upgrade at all. In fact, I traded my PMII for my ATACR. Now, as crazy as that sounds to YOU, is as silly as your statement sounds to me.
Point is: everyone’s eyes see and focus different. One person’s “OMG” might be another’s “meh.”

Some Other considerations in this debate are: time of day, how tired are your eyes, what is the ambient lighting, how are the shadows falling, etc. There are many factors that go into how our eyes see and focus and perceive images. Seldom is EVERYTHING going to be perfect the second you look at it.

I get your point, just that the ATACR was the first and only scope that was giving me this kind of trouble.

 

[Aaron47pb]

It means your diopter isn't set properly. The parallax knob is simply a focus control. Diopter adjustment sets the focal plane of the reticle. Parallax sets the focal plane of the target. When both are adjusted properly, both focal planes intersect at your eye. Therefore there is no parallax error.

So why is your target blurry?

Because the whole thing about setting reticle focus at infinity against the sky or a wall is a bit misleading. Do that as a first step. But then you need to get out at distance and look at a target. Set your parallax control to eliminate parallax like what you've done. If your target is now blurry (and not from mirage), then you need to slightly adjust the diopter to bring your target in focus. Then re-adjust your parallax. Do this a few times and it will fine tune everything. Do it at different distances as well.

NOTE: When you adjust your diopter, do not try to focus your eye on the reticle. Your eye needs to be relaxed (i.e. not using eye muscles to try to focus on something). This means you need to be looking at "infinity." Look at the horizon for 5-10 seconds so your eye relaxes. Then move behind your scope and get sight picture while still focusing your eye at infinity. Adjust diopter. Now look at the horizon again. Back behind rifle and adjust diopter. Back and forth a few times.

If you do all of this, your parallax setting will always give you a sharp target, sharp reticle, and zero parallax error. And you will reduce eye fatigue.

You should be able to have a cheek weld with your eyes closed, like you're sleeping on your rifle. Then open your eyes and immediate have a clear sight picture without trying to refocus or strain your eyes. Then you know it's all set right.

A fun way I’ve done this is looking at the moon. It’s easy with a tripod. Parallax to infinity and adjust diopter until reticle is clear and all the detail of the moon is clear and popping. Done.

 

[Fig]

I’ve never had the problem across a lot of different scopes. I always set the diopter first thing, and then it’s of to the races and parallax and focus become synonymous.

 

[918v]

Another way to do it is to go to a dark place with your scope. Turn on the illumination in the scope. Adjust the diopter until it is crisp and you’ll see that the scope does not really have a broad range of adjustment like some people claim.

Go to the field and fine tune as described earlier, but understand that by fine tuning with the parallax knob and diopter in the field you end up compromising either the image focus or the reticle focus or both.

Because when you return to your dark place you’ll see the reticle is no longer crisp under illumination.

 

[Nik H]

FourT6and2 is the one that turned me onto his method of diopter adjustment.

Once the target is sharp using the parallax knob, I move my diopter until it is razor sharp WHILE focusing on the target with my eye.

When you adjust the diopter, what is the “it” that you are trying to get razor sharp? I am assuming that you are referring to the reticle

 

[hk dave]

Sorry, “it” is referring to the reticle.

 

[Clearlight]

I have noticed the disconnect between target focus and parallax elimination in a lot of allegedly
high end optics. Some designs criticised for ‘shallow depth of field’ have excellent parallax
elimination, some with deep depth of field not so much. Lack of thermal stability is another issue.
I guess all that counts at the end of the day is is it repeatable and reliable.

 

[Squibbler]

Lack of thermal stability is another issue.

Could you elaborate more.... Dealing with mirage....???

 

[FourT6and2]

So what you’re saying 46-2 is that sharp focus and zero parallax error are always simultaneously possible?

Yes (besides mirage). If there's no parallax error, then by definition the target's focal plane and the reticle's focal plane MUST be the same. That's how a rifle scope eliminates parallax error.

• If reticle is sharp and target is sharp, by definition you have zero parallax error.
  
  
• If target is sharp and reticle is sharp, but you have to back off slightly on the parallax control to 100% get rid of error, then diopter is not adjusted properly.
  
  
• If reticle is sharp but target is blurry, and there is no parallax error, then reticle isn't actually sharp. Your eyes are just straining/focusing to make it sharp. And that throws off your target's focus. After a while your eyes will start to hurt. Readjust your diopter.

 

[FourT6and2]

A fun way I’ve done this is looking at the moon. It’s easy with a tripod. Parallax to infinity and adjust diopter until reticle is clear and all the detail of the moon is clear and popping. Done.

That's interesting lol.
Except the moon is very far away. And you're looking at it through many miles of atmosphere. But whatever gets the job done

 

[Yote Klr]

Yes (besides mirage). If there's no parallax error, then by definition the target's focal plane and the reticle's focal plane MUST be the same. That's how a rifle scope eliminates parallax error.

• If reticle is sharp and target is sharp, by definition you have zero parallax error.
  
  
• If target is sharp and reticle is sharp, but you have to back off slightly on the parallax control to 100% get rid of error, then diopter is not adjusted properly.
  
  
• If reticle is sharp but target is blurry, and there is no parallax error, then reticle isn't actually sharp. Your eyes are just straining/focusing to make it sharp. And that throws off your target's focus. After a while your eyes will start to hurt. Readjust your diopter.

This is great info thanks.
BTW, I take it you're a fan of Maynard James Keenan?

 

[FourT6and2]

BTW, I take it you're a fan of Maynard James Keenan?

Tool is my fave band. Can't wait for the new album to finally arrive!

 

[goosed]

Lots of good info in your posts, but I'm a bit confused about one point...

The parallax knob is simply a focus control. Diopter adjustment sets the focal plane of the reticle.

The parallax knob is only a focus control? So it doesn't dial out parallax (i.e. reticle and target on same focal plane)?

 

[JFR]

I'm not wrong in what I experienced with two scopes and I did not have anything adjusted improperly. I adjusted diopter and parallax knob back and forth and up and down over three days at the range with one of my scopes. Another experienced shooter got behind the wheel and had the same problem. All my other scopes get adjusted initially and need very little adjustment thereafter. I believe some scopes come from the factory with something out-of-whack (technical term). I don't think it has anything to do with a particular company. YMMV.

JFR

 

[goosed]

I'm not wrong in what I experienced with two scopes and I did not have anything adjusted improperly. I adjusted diopter and parallax knob back and forth and up and down over three days at the range with one of my scopes. Another experienced shooter got behind the wheel and had the same problem. All my other scopes get adjusted initially and need very little adjustment thereafter. I believe some scopes come from the factory with something out-of-whack (technical term). I don't think it has anything to do with a particular company. YMMV.

JFR

You're not wrong!

Ilya did a video last year explaining what you are seeing