Range Report Testing the 7mm 190’s.

[Steel head]

Tested the 190 A Tip today from 530 to a bit over 2000.
Ran some 190 hybrids and 185RDF’s as well for comparison.
Pretty decent wind as I was holding up to 3 mills today.

All three were running a safe 2850 to 2865

the RDF did pretty Good considering the price but the bullet consistency was not in the same league as the hybrid and ATip.
24 mils to 2020 at 2865 and the advertised BC is really close.


190 Hybrids were the slowest at 2850 but still a full mil less come up than the RDF.
The new hybrid is an excellent bullet.
23 mils to 2020 and once again trueing was easy as the BC is really close.

The new 190 A-tip’s stupendous BC had me doubtful as I generally have to fiddle with Hornandy BC’s consistently.
Slapped the speed and BC in the kestrel and it was basically spot on at 530, 1115, 1365, 1930 and only .3 low at 2020!
That could easily be wind related as wind was switchy all day.
Running at a leisurely 2866 it only took 21.4 to 2020.
I put 6 in a row in a 3’ painted circle with at least one hitting the gong in the middle with the A Tips holding 3 mils for wind.
That amazing BC appears legit!

 

[calshipbuilder]

Nice to hear on the ATIP BC. I believe the advertised BC is for 200 yards. Based on their published bc data for other bullets, a drop in BC is to be expected at long range.

Ballistic Coefficient - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

A-Tip®, ELD® Match, and ELD-X® Ballistic Coefficient Values Hornady originally published “800 yard”* average Ballistic Coefficient (BC) values for ELD-X and ELD Match bullets. This was done to provide the most usable BC from a trajectory prediction st...

www.hornady.com

It will be nice when the litz values get published for this and the LRHT.

 

[Steel head]

Nice to hear on the ATIP BC. I believe the advertised BC is for 200 yards. Based on their published bc data for other bullets, a drop in BC is to be expected at long range.

Ballistic Coefficient - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

A-Tip®, ELD® Match, and ELD-X® Ballistic Coefficient Values Hornady originally published “800 yard”* average Ballistic Coefficient (BC) values for ELD-X and ELD Match bullets. This was done to provide the most usable BC from a trajectory prediction st...

www.hornady.com

It will be nice when the litz values get published for this and the LRHT.

I was honestly expecting to have to monkey with the BC.
According to the kestrel It just barely still supersonic and honestly it acted like it still was.

The A tips at 1520 yards was basically easy mode

It solidly beat the 190 hybrids as far as drops.

The Litz value for the 140 hybrids and 147 eldm is pretty close to spot on from my findings.

I think once I shoot all my 168 Berger’s I’m gonna use the RDF as a regular load and the A tips for those special occasions.

 

[Schw15]

So the .422 held up pretty well. Glad to hear now i might have to try them lol was the atips constants bullet to bullet like bergers? And any special seater stem

 

[Steel head]

So the .422 held up pretty well. Glad to hear now i might have to try them lol was the atips constants bullet to bullet like bergers? And any special seater stem

Yea
It’s appears to be totally legit.
It was .3 off at 2020 and I’m not correcting that till I try it again because I was in a pretty good wind with an occasional head wind element.

Consistency between it and the Berger 190’s is so close I’m not confident I could distinguish a difference.

Out of curiosity I measured oal on every tip I seated.
All were within 1 thou!!!!


21 and change mils to over 2000 burning around 60 grains of powder!

My 7 saum Forster micrometer clears the tips on the A Tip just barely.

I loaded a short ladder around the charge I use for the 190 hybrids and it was 15 FPS faster( A tip has a bit more bearing area) an ES on all three charges was 12 or better on all three charges in ten shots.

 

[Schw15]

Yea
It’s appears to be totally legit.
Consistency between it and the Berger 190’s is so close I’m not confident I could distinguish a difference.

Out of curiosity I measured oal on every tip I seated.
All were within 1 thou!!!!


21 and change mils to over 2000 burning around 60 grains of powder!

Man that is impressive im sure in the 7 mm mag i could get 2950 28 inch barrel. Happy to hear

 

[alfmoonspace]

I might need to slap some of these in my 7-300. Glad they stayed true.

 

[calshipbuilder]

Here's my testing from Saturday.

I think the 190LRHT, 190ATIP, and 183SMK are all very excellent bullets and viable choices. From a statistical perspective, their performance is pretty much identical at the distance I test (1284 yards on paper). My performance measurement is vertical standard deviation.

I will likely go with the 190LRHT as it looks like a safe bet. I had good results before with the 184F-open Hybrids, but now with the 190s there is no need to point them myself. The A-TIP is a clear leader in BC, but its interesting to note that the 183 SMK is not very far behind on drops when put in front of the same powder charge. Also, on the LRHT I sorted by length and SMK was sorted by weight and length. I did not sort the ATIPs, so I may be leaving a bit on the table with them - but for their cost and marketing - I shouldn't have to sort them.

My velocity numbers are derived from BC. I found myself playing around too much with the labradar and magnetospeed to get inconsistent results - so I test on paper as the bullet tells the truth.

I had one questionable shot that went into either of the 183SMK groups, the rest of the numbers I'm fairly confident in - although I'll need to re-check my zero with each of these bullets next time I go out to confirm drops.

Target

Powder

Charge

Shots

Bullet

Dialed

Vertical Offset

Actual Drop MOA

Vertical SD

Group Size Inches

Group Size MOA

Mean Radius

DA

G7 BC

Est. Velocity

Notes

2​

H4831SC

61.5​

10​

190 LRHT

33​

-0.723​

33.723​

0.257​

13.5​

1.006​

0.309​

3200​

0.384​

2897​

3​

H1000

64.5​

10​

190 LRHT

30.5​

-1.338​

31.838​

0.238​

12.633​

0.94​

0.27​

4000​

0.384​

2954​

4​

H1000

64.5​

9​

190 ATIP

29​

-0.364​

29.364​

0.382​

16.23​

1.207​

0.405​

4200​

0.422​

2993​

5​

RE23

60.8​

9​

190 ATIP

28​

-1.253​

29.253​

0.26​

11.825​

0.88​

0.317​

3800​

0.422​

2998​

6​

RE23

60.8​

9​

183 SMK

29​

-0.773​

29.773​

0.246​

11.834​

0.88​

0.273​

4000​

0.377​

3046​

questionable shot

7​

RE23

60.8​

9​

190 LRHT

30​

-0.643​

30.643​

0.28​

13.778​

1.025​

0.261​

4000​

0.384​

3003​

8​

H1000

64.5​

10​

183 SMK

30.5​

0.034​

30.466​

0.276​

18.632​

1.386​

0.432​

3800​

0.377​

3017​

questionable shot

Averages	Vertical SD	Group Size Inches	Group Size MOA	Mean Radius
190 ATIP	0.32​	14.03​	1.04​	0.36​
190 LRHT	0.26​	13.30​	0.99​	0.28​
183 SMK	0.26​	15.23​	1.13​	0.35​

*Load data here is over max book loads for 7 SAUM, I use TBN coating and have a custom throat to allow an OAL up to 3.2 - do not attempt to use these loads, I don't take any responsibility for your reloading practices - and would you really trust a guy that shoots MOA?*

 

[Steel head]

I’m still on the fence.
A tip or 190 lrhb.
I still have most of the box left and I’ll decide when they’re gone.
Going out tomorrow
Hopefully the wind will be a bit milder but their performance in the wind was pretty excellent last time.

 

[Steel head]

Just an update
I just realized (cuz my brain is foggy with age and abuse) is that the scope on my 7 saum is 99% at 20 mils.
That pretty much perfectly accounts for the extra elevation needed at my furthest targets.

 

[Deleted member 110994]

I’m still on the fence.
A tip or 190 lrhb.
I still have most of the box left and I’ll decide when they’re gone.
Going out tomorrow
Hopefully the wind will be a bit milder but their performance in the wind was pretty excellent last time.

Have you ever tested the 197 SMK? Curious about that bullet with a SAUM... Thanks

 

[Schw15]

Have you ever tested the 197 SMK? Curious about that bullet with a SAUM... Thanks

I'm waiting on almost 500 of them but I'm going to use them in a 7 Mag but we might test them out in my buddies 7 Saum 2

 

[Deleted member 110994]

I'm waiting on almost 500 of them but I'm going to use them in a 7 Mag but we might test them out in my buddies 7 Saum 2

Very interested in your range report.

 

[Steel head]

Have you ever tested the 197 SMK? Curious about that bullet with a SAUM... Thanks

I haven’t tried them.
I’m thinking I’d need more powder capacity or longer barrel to do them justice.

 

[Deleted member 110994]

I haven’t tried them.
I’m thinking I’d need more powder capacity or longer barrel to do them justice.

That's what I was wondering if the SAUM had enough gas to take advantage of that big of a pill. Been thinking about building a 7mm Sherman Max, SAUM improved. He states it'll push a 195 at 3000 fps, which should be enough to push the 197.

 

[Steel head]

That's what I was wondering if the SAUM had enough gas to take advantage of that big of a pill. Been thinking about building a 7mm Sherman Max, SAUM improved. He states it'll push a 195 at 3000 fps, which should be enough to push the 197.

I’m sure the Saum could safely get them to 2825-2875 and possibly 2900.
I’ve had the 190’s at 2950 but I’m not sure that’s feasible in the summer.

At this point the performance I’m getting with both the 190’s is plenty.
To shoot further I’d want a bullet a good bit bigger.

 

[Schw15]

That's what I was wondering if the SAUM had enough gas to take advantage of that big of a pill. Been thinking about building a 7mm Sherman Max, SAUM improved. He states it'll push a 195 at 3000 fps, which should be enough to push the 197.

Thats what my plan kind is in the future

 

[Deleted member 110994]

I’m sure the Saum could safely get them to 2825-2875 and possibly 2900.
I’ve had the 190’s at 2950 but I’m not sure that’s feasible in the summer.

At this point the performance I’m getting with both the 190’s is plenty.
To shoot further I’d want a bullet a good bit bigger.

The SAUM is a very impressive little case IMHO. And your numbers prove that. I am curious if RL26 would be a better option with that heavy of a bullet. I know its just about impossible to find though

 

[Steel head]

The 197 has a similar G1 as the A Tip but what you spend on powder and expensive brass and dies for just a bit more performance has me thinking the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

 

[Steel head]

The SAUM is a very impressive little case IMHO. And your numbers prove that. I am curious if RL26 would be a better option with that heavy of a bullet. I know its just about impossible to find though

I’m using R26
Thankfully I have a good stash of it.
Enough to kill my next 7 saum barrel as well as my current one.

Loaded long H1000 and 7977 get great speeds but with R26 I get the same speed with 3 grains less.

I do have another set of charges higher to find pressure with the Atips but honestly at this point my Barrel should probably be starting to slow down.

 

[Deleted member 110994]

I’m using R26
Thankfully I have a good stash of it.
Enough to kill my next 7 saum barrel as well as my current one.

Loaded long H1000 and 7977 get great speeds but with R26 I get the same speed with 3 grains less.

I do have another set of charges higher to find pressure with the Atips but honestly at this point my Barrel should probably be starting to slow down.

Where did you say you live.... JK. I take it you are running a long action? What freebore do you recommend?

 

[Schw15]

The 197 has a similar G1 as the A Tip but what you spend on powder and expensive brass and dies for just a bit more performance has me thinking the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

I thought the G1 for the 197 was 780

 

[Schw15]

I’m using R26
Thankfully I have a good stash of it.
Enough to kill my next 7 saum barrel as well as my current one.

Loaded long H1000 and 7977 get great speeds but with R26 I get the same speed with 3 grains less.

I do have another set of charges higher to find pressure with the Atips but honestly at this point my Barrel should probably be starting to slow down.

I have heard that reloder 26 toast throats faster Ben Hodgins 1,000 have you seen any results like that

 

[Steel head]

I have heard that reloder 26 toast throats faster Ben Hodgins 1,000 have you seen any results like that

I haven’t put the bore scope in my barrel but I did check the throat depth recently and it’s grown a lot less than expected.
This is my first cut barrel and my first magnum but it’s maybe slightly more than normal growth I see in my buttoned 260 barrels.
70% percent R26 in over 1100 rounds

 

[Steel head]

Where did you say you live.... JK. I take it you are running a long action? What freebore do you recommend?

I’m in SW Washington.
Regular Sammi reamer and a short action but I do single feed the 190’s
For hunting bullets around 160-170 my reamer is easily short action friendly but for 180-190’s to get on the lands OAL is a bit over 3” but you’ll need that OAL with H1000 and 7977.
I ran the ELD 180 at mag length with a good jump at 2960 with R26 for quite a while and that load was awesome till they started blowing up.
You absolutely couldn’t fit enough H1000 to get that speed at SA mag length.

I thought the G1 for the 197 was 780

Your right
I was thinking the G1 was .780 on the ATips.

 

[Schw15]

I’m in SW Washington.
Regular Sammi reamer and a short action but I do single feed the 190’s
For hunting bullets around 160-170 my reamer is easily short action friendly but for 180-190’s to get on the lands OAL is a bit over 3” but you’ll need that OAL with H1000 and 7977.
I ran the ELD 180 at mag length with a good jump at 2960 with R26 for quite a while and that load was awesome till they started blowing up.
You absolutely couldn’t fit enough H1000 to get that speed at SA mag length.




Your right
I was thinking the G1 was .780 on the ATips.

I have heard some guys were claiming 8:23 to 8:36 but I haven't got them to do any testing yet

 

[Steel head]

Comparing my new barrel to my old barrel(same smith and reamer) with 190 hybrids my throat has moved .035.

I’m actually surprised at that.

 

[Steel head]

I have heard some guys were claiming 8:23 to 8:36 but I haven't got them to do any testing yet

For the G1?

 

[Schw15]

For the G1?

Yes g1 for the 197 smk. Seirra says .780 other guys have claimed .823

 

[Steel head]

Yes g1 for the 197 smk. Seirra says .780 other guys have claimed .823

That certainly changes things for the price if you have the horsepower
Seems odd they’d underestimate it so much considering what a selling point BC is

 

[Schw15]

That certainly changes things for the price if you have the horsepower
Seems odd they’d underestimate it so much considering what a selling point BC is

Yes I agree but when I get them I for sure test it out

 

[Deleted member 110994]

That certainly changes things for the price if you have the horsepower
Seems odd they’d underestimate it so much considering what a selling point BC is

The extra case capacity in the Sherman max with the 197 seems like a good match...

 

[Steel head]

The extra case capacity in the Sherman max with the 197 seems like a good match...

Yea, I’m sure it would be impressive.

 

[Deleted member 110994]

Yea, I’m sure it would be impressive.

But your right, the fire forming and die cost are a definite down side to the Sherman Max. Guess the fire forming would be a good break in period for a new barrel.

 

[Steel head]

But your right, the fire forming and die cost are a definite down side to the Sherman Max. Guess the fire forming would be a good break in period for a new barrel.

Yea
I just found out you can fire form 7 saum to 7 max.
that’s smart.
Just dies.
If I could just get a body die I might entertain it as I cut my own Lee collets for the neck.

 

[Schw15]

Yea
I just found out you can fire form 7 saum to 7 max.
that’s smart.
Just dies.
If I could just get a body die I might entertain it as I cut my own Lee collets for the neck.

Not sure if the body die works on those because it blows the body out along with the shoulder i could be wrong but if not that would be a great idea for cheaper dies

 

[Steel head]

Not sure if the body die works on those because it blows the body out along with the shoulder i could be wrong but if not that would be a great idea for cheaper dies

7 7 max body die of course.

 

[Schw15]

7 7 max body die of course.

Do they make a 7 max body die? I love them short fat cases great performance out of them I want to go to 1 but then I think price of brass goes up then you got to fire form and the dies cost twice as much LOL

 

[Steel head]

Do they make a 7 max body die? I love them short fat cases great performance out of them I want to go to 1 but then I think price of brass goes up then you got to fire form and the dies cost twice as much LOL

I don’t mind the fire form but I’m particular on what dies I use and that was a major consideration why I didn’t go 7 SS
I doubt a 7 max body die would be available.
I doubt I’d go that route anyway.
I’m quite smitten with 7?saum at the moment.

 

[Schw15]

I don’t mind the fire form but I’m particular on what dies I use and that was a major consideration why I didn’t go 7 SS
I doubt a 7 max body die would be available.
I doubt I’d go that route anyway.
I’m quite smitten with 7?saum at the moment.

Yes and I believe he offers Hornady dies which I have come to like actually still like Forrester dies the best though. A long throated long action 7mm Saum is very intriguing to me that's what my friend did I let him test it out before I build me one LOL

 

[Deleted member 110994]

Yes and I believe he offers Hornady dies which I have come to like actually still like Forrester dies the best though. A long throated long action 7mm Saum is very intriguing to me that's what my friend did I let him test it out before I build me one LOL

I believe all his new dies are Whidden. I maybe wrong though

 

[Schw15]

Oh man big money lol don't they have to take a special press or am I thinking of the wrong ones

 

[Deleted member 110994]

I think they are $250-$300... Not for sure. same press

 

[Schw15]

I think they are $250-$300... Not for sure. same press

Alright man not sure its worth the extra speed you get lol

 

[Deleted member 110994]

Max die set.

Whidden Die Set - Medium Action

Sherman Max cartridge sizing and seating die sets are custom made by Whidden Gunworks and include a full length bushing sizing die and micrometer seating die.6.5 Sherman Max Dies - Expected May 2020

shermanwildcatcartridges.com

 

[Deleted member 110994]

Alright man not sure its worth the extra speed you get lol

Thats not a bad price for basically custom die set... buy once, cry once

 

[Schw15]

Haha yes cry

 

[dustingaunder]

He’s got Hornady dies for 7 max now. He’s been talking about it on LRH. I got the Whidden dies for my 7 max and they are meh.

https://shermanwildcatcartridges.com/online-store/ols/products/hornady-match-grade-bushing-2-die-set

 

[Steel head]

He’s got Hornady dies for 7 max now. He’s been talking about it on LRH. I got the Whidden dies for my 7 max and they are meh.

https://shermanwildcatcartridges.com/online-store/ols/products/hornady-match-grade-bushing-2-die-set

Your not the first to say that about the Whidden.
I’ll have to look and see if the Hornandy dies are bushings.
If so there’s my body die.

 

[dustingaunder]

They are.