Sometimes they schedule a gradual pullback of heavy weapons [tanks/ tube /rocket] and let little ados work it out .
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The war in Ukraine and Donbas
- Thread starter Darayavaus
- Start date
They tried this with Minsk 2 times and here we are.
Need some real guarantees of lasting peace, not just a stop gap.
It stalled out ages ago, Ukraine pushed pretty hard during daylight to make gains and we seen the cost of that. Once it lost momentum in the first couple days that was the start of a slog match like the rest of the war, if you look at the terrain than you can see that what Ukraine captured was mostly low laying fields and they were stopped in front of elevation tree lines.
The support there was only there for the world's largest money laundering operation. With that ending, the lost solderers is just the cost of doing business.
Wonder if destroying the US dollar was worth it? Likely for those involved as they have more than enough to handle the massive inflation it caused and able to invest it elsewhere to avoid the looming crash.
Non negotiable for Russia is Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson oblasts which is doable IMO, Kharkiv they probably want and if it was me personally and able to be done, Odesa, as land locking Ukraine would try it into a real rump state while protecting Crimea from basic bitch surface drones which fuck ships.
Ideal situation for Russia IMO is all the way to the dnieper as that gives them two solid defensive lines of terrain before Moscow. Terrain limits where you can jam a division and south of Moscow is open as fuck, it's one of the few place you could even have a corp level advance.
Two things to think about. First, why does Russia not give a fuck about NATO on it's northern boarder? It's swampy as fuck and there is a few shitty roads, no one is attacking that way with any sizeable force.
Second, why were the majority of the most intense battles of WW2 fought in this exact same region and even the same towns or cities?
Ideal situation for Russia IMO is all the way to the dnieper as that gives them two solid defensive lines of terrain before Moscow. Terrain limits where you can jam a division and south of Moscow is open as fuck, it's one of the few place you could even have a corp level advance.
Two things to think about. First, why does Russia not give a fuck about NATO on it's northern boarder? It's swampy as fuck and there is a few shitty roads, no one is attacking that way with any sizeable force.
Second, why were the majority of the most intense battles of WW2 fought in this exact same region and even the same towns or cities?
i think zelensky, soros and the nwo got part of what they wanted...the decimation of christian white men, akin to the genocide that the bolsheviks wreaked upon ukraine almost 100 years ago.
odd how everything is a reverse now...with the communists on "our" side.
The communists are not on our side.
Russia is not communist.
It’s not a republic but it’s not communist.
the nwo, democratic party, elites in brussels...certainly have authoritarian communist tendencies imho.
i accept that others may not agree.
people think they are electing their governments...i would suggest otherwise...and when the government takes half of what you earn...to give to others that didn't earn it...i think it is already communism.
hey if you would care to explain how they've assisted in the deaths of Christians I'd appreciate it, as would other's I'm sure. I only get up to speed on foreign politics every other year.
the overwhelming majority of people dying in the conflict are white christian men. there are some muslims...
so imho, money spent to perpetuate rather than end this conflict is spent with the goal of killing a white christian man.
/i'm not a white christian man, so this is just me looking at is as a third party.
do you think there is any validity to putin's claims that he is "de-nazi-fy'ing" Ukraine?
I've always been curious just how much of what he says is bullshit.
Putin does not want any more nato members closer to russia's borders....its that simple .....no sane US president is going to start ww3 in the uke . As for christian white people in the US while they aint killing us but just look at TV [any channel/ad] its like " hey i saw a straight white person"
it is hard to say to what extent the anti-russian "nazi" elements have survived since wwii, when ukrainians fought with the nazis.
the bolsheviks had starved millions of ukrainians in the early 30s in retaliation for the (white christian) ukrainians wanting independence from soviet rule. look up "holodomor" if you're unfamiliar.
there were jewish pogroms in poland and ukraine (the slaughter of jews) decades before the nazis rose to power, mostly because the poles and ukrainians blamed jewish folks for the bolsheviks.
many of the survivors of the holodomor and their descendants still have great hatred and resentment towards "russians", because they see moscow as the source of their pain (even though the soviet union doesn't exist anymore).
this is why ukrainian nazi battalions had no qualms about slaughtering ethnic russian civilians in the donbas (which led to this war).
thats what i was after. cant find much legit news about it because Russia bad.
the "azov brigade" was so notoriously associated with neo-nazis, we actually had a ban on arms we gave them going to that group.
US lifts weapons ban on Ukraine's Azov brigade
The brigade, whose origins were mired in far-right controversy, hails the move as blow to Russia's propaganda.
www.bbc.com
kind of makes it hard to deny...but they still try.
Yeah. Patrick Deegan.
Most Military and Police know of me in Canada.
I am a drunken Millenial BTW....not an old Gen X'er.
i think/hope trump would have told Z to sign the deal that he almost had with putin that UK and biden killed. trump seemed to have no interest in pushing nato on russia's border. he also had kim under control to a decent extent. wasn't a rino,neocon war monger.
Hey good for you. You know the actual history of that region!!
Eastern Ukraine was ethnically cleansed from 1917-1922 and replaced with Russians.
Plus it has infrastructure and minerals that Moscow needs.
East Ukraine should be a write off in any peace settlement.
What had read is that what is now southeastern ukraine was part of Russia until Lenin made it part of ukraine. I believe he did that to prevent a unified ukraine from trying to declare independence again.
Yes.
Even if you go 100 years before that....it was a Ottoman-Empire versus Russian battleground.
Ukrainians are probably a good percentage Turkish by blood.
Before that it was Poles and Mongols and Vikings.
This explains why some of the refugees in my area look like Chinamen, Native Americans, Russian, and or German.
Mixed bag. Lots of battle.
Here we go again.... that part is "a new" history.
Holodomor wasn't "Bolsheviks starving freedom loving Ukrainians"...
- Ukraine, that was first formed as "an independent state" for a short time in 1917 was about half the size of modern Ukraine - West belonged to Poland and Hungary. East was mostly former Russia, that Lenin "gifted" to Ukraine.
So, in effect, more then half of the population of 1930 Ukraine was Russian. In "holodomor" narrative they are all counted as Ukrainian.
- and it wasn't just Ukrainian famine. It was SOVIET famine. Areas affected -Kazakhstan, Russia, Belorussia, Northern Caucasus, South Urals and Siberia.
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Also funny blaming Soviets for “holodomor” while doing “suicide by Jew”. As irony being communists were Jews exported to Tzarist Russia by France, England and Germany to do what they try to do today, get stuff for free and survive its own decades of mismanagement. So Russian people can be blamed for being idiots for 70ish years but i wonder what will history write about new age idiots like US (walking proudly into the same trap its just being called differently) and Europe (already up to a neck in shit). For Europe the counter has already started for US it will in November (cant see Trump winning as they will do everything possible to steal the elections). To note being mostly backward peasant illiterate person in 1917 in the failed WW times without multiple or any news sources and being promised a communist paradise vs being overeducated spoiled brat with numerous sources of news and historical examples being promised the same shit again should make a huge difference - will it?
As to the Nazis yeah there be plenty of nazis as in real deal originale and not some neonazi skinhead music listening beer drinking helterskelter american history x fake shit. Why? Because granps was helping Wehrmacht and cleaning land of filth since wwi in that area and left job unfinished (in their eyes). And when Putin speaks of denazification it means just that kill all willing to die for swastika, god knows communists after Wwii killed many but clearly not enough (were more focused on grabbing power and offing competition than really cleaning scum) as their children and grandchildren (google about relatives od major eu politicians like von Leyen etc.) want old glory back. “Liberalism-globalism” is rebranded communism but only for the masses and to keep useful idiots motivated to bring change about real agenda is good old Feudalism with Hunger games type of global rule. The core of this movement or “elite” doing stuff from the shadows plays various “isms” against each other in classic divide and conquer to cause enough upheavals to enable a transition in what they see as global rule over the mobs, slaves or whatever you want to call the “new man” nor white nor black a mindless consumer with no morals, values or stand. Without the mass of the latter type such rule is impossible.
Sorry for longwinded “rant” but issue of Ukraine is not isolated event from other events and far from being simple “squabble about some mineral deposits and use of language between two white christian societies”
As to the Nazis yeah there be plenty of nazis as in real deal originale and not some neonazi skinhead music listening beer drinking helterskelter american history x fake shit. Why? Because granps was helping Wehrmacht and cleaning land of filth since wwi in that area and left job unfinished (in their eyes). And when Putin speaks of denazification it means just that kill all willing to die for swastika, god knows communists after Wwii killed many but clearly not enough (were more focused on grabbing power and offing competition than really cleaning scum) as their children and grandchildren (google about relatives od major eu politicians like von Leyen etc.) want old glory back. “Liberalism-globalism” is rebranded communism but only for the masses and to keep useful idiots motivated to bring change about real agenda is good old Feudalism with Hunger games type of global rule. The core of this movement or “elite” doing stuff from the shadows plays various “isms” against each other in classic divide and conquer to cause enough upheavals to enable a transition in what they see as global rule over the mobs, slaves or whatever you want to call the “new man” nor white nor black a mindless consumer with no morals, values or stand. Without the mass of the latter type such rule is impossible.
Sorry for longwinded “rant” but issue of Ukraine is not isolated event from other events and far from being simple “squabble about some mineral deposits and use of language between two white christian societies”
Keep your super power hidden.
No need to share and allow them to try and know your systems.
I feel all alone in the straight white christian male camp here
I don't think Russia's Government/Putin like the idea of a pro western Kiev. I think we are so far in its going to take some sort of "persuasion" to keep Russia from continuning their push, if not its going to fall. Just like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. That said, I think a peace agreement that some what represents current ground held is about as fair as it can be. But how to make it last, very curious what Trumps plan is here, only thing I see him able to do is " plopping his preverbal balls on the table"
I was talking with a retired LT. Col friend of mine and he was bringing up the point that the USA is so invested in this, after all the sacrifice it would be stupid to walk away. Even as much as he disagrees with how we got here, here we are, if we drop them, they are totally fucked, and all that sacrifice gets pissed down the drain, he being a Vietnam vet, brought up the fall of Hanoi. Compares us not giving them long range weapons to not being allowed to cross into Cambodia and Laos to hit supply shipments. He thinks we should push them back to pre 2014 borders. Thats his argument and I have been thinking about it lately. As much as I disagree with his overall thinking on it I see where he is coming from. BTW, he is a staunch Trump supporter.
This has made me wonder, even if they sign a peace deal, similar to the one that you mentioned. Some thing has to be a deterrence to maintain that peace. Its gotta be more than wishful thinking.
Ukraine is fucked either way, might as well pull that Band-Aid off.
Pro-west pre 2014 boarder Ukraine is viewed by Russia as an existential threat IMO, nukes will fly before that is allowed.
We are looking at a border that is the key to what could be an actual successful invasion of Russia, by contrast the US freaks the fuck out if a second rate power even thinks of putting forces in the same fucking hemisphere.
I don’t think nukes will fly but don’t understand Russia’s resolve or it’s willingness to spill Russian blood to reach primary goals like the Siversky Donetsk river.
Bark all you want this dog has lost its bite. US did what it could there is nothing else to do or can be done. All in you say with what exactly there is nothing of substance left? Swoop in with F35 and F22 well good luck with that, bring US troops to Ukraine? They are already there and it aint turning well for neither “expert” nor “meat”. Emperor is naked and world has already realized that its just its serfs that fail to acknowledge the truth as it hurts too much and dissonance is too big.
Best you can do is focus on own problems and fix your own house but that would take quite a few bitter pills to swallow. Some of your more intelligent people firstly warned you right after wwii and some are warning you now but majority fails to listen.
Best you can do is focus on own problems and fix your own house but that would take quite a few bitter pills to swallow. Some of your more intelligent people firstly warned you right after wwii and some are warning you now but majority fails to listen.
nope,always been a straight christian white boy so i have no need or desire for your guidance on transitioning ....."butt" glad it all worked out for you and nancy
I was going to be a smartass and say "Hands Across America". But done a little research instead.
Interesting.
Not sure that it applies to Ukraine today though. Russia will stop when the Uke's quit letting themselves be used as cannon fodder for Nato and the MIC, or WWIII happens.
Interesting.
Not sure that it applies to Ukraine today though. Russia will stop when the Uke's quit letting themselves be used as cannon fodder for Nato and the MIC, or WWIII happens.
The Germans made him walk through blood, brains, and bone to find treasure?
No wonder he is a misfit.
He is probably anti Central European Christian to the core.
Well the Bolsheviks tried jamming Communism down western Europe's throat.
When elephants fight....it is the little George's that suffer.
Also, most secular Jews have no idea about history, Communism, or anything else.
That's not fair to say that 99% are scum.
Probably less.
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