Thorroclean & Bronze Brush Bore Cleaning Result.
- Thread starter Ronin22
- Start date
Depends. He's seen more barrels than you ever will, he makes them for a living, so I would consider him a professional. His opinion is based on his experience and expertise.
You? You have had good results using an abrasive, up to this point, so, based upon this anecdotal circumstance, he's biased and has to be wrong.
Go ahead with your quest, Don Quixote, may you succeed in your investigation of the Cueva de Montesinos.
If it's either of the guys I'm thinking of... I honestly don't think they had any sort of chicanery in mind. They probably honestly *believed* they were doing everything right. They were just notoriously... misguided. Half a bubble off level, etc. Even by the standards of 'back when'.
Since you aren't a moderator, I'll stop when I feel like it and now ain't it.
It isn't human worship.
He has expertise in this area.
What's yours?
Besides tilting at windmills, that is.
If I have a cat in this fight, it is curiosity. I like to learn. Bring on the tar & feathers. Point and laugh at my junk. You might need a microscope first, though.
Maybe ronin’s experiment will provide an interesting insight. Or maybe it will be a colossal waste of time. Only one way to find out.
We can usually learn something about skinning cats from other people if we’re open to learning.
If you’re not curious, that’s fine. I know plenty of people who aren’t.
I’ll withhold my ad hominem attacks for the time being. Unless, of course, @Ronin22 has proven himself to be a moron already and I missed it.
Have you?
Maybe ronin’s experiment will provide an interesting insight. Or maybe it will be a colossal waste of time. Only one way to find out.
We can usually learn something about skinning cats from other people if we’re open to learning.
If you’re not curious, that’s fine. I know plenty of people who aren’t.
I’ll withhold my ad hominem attacks for the time being. Unless, of course, @Ronin22 has proven himself to be a moron already and I missed it.
Have you?
It absolutely is. I wont dispute that. Im not sure what they are suspending it in though and I cant find an MSDS on it either. Ive used a mix of Kroil and Iosso mixed to a thinner consistency than what Thoroclean is in the past for troublesome barrels. I didnt use a brush for that either, I used a mop jag. But like Ive said before, use good judgement and you wont have issue. I do deviate slightly from the instructions, but that mostly to minimize the amount of strokes I need to run when I do use it. My MO is to just clean the barrel with Hoppes or Boretech to get the easy to get stuff out. Then I will use iso alcohol to get it as clean as I can. Ill scope it at this point to see how bad it is. If it looks OK, good enough, light coat of Balistol in the barrel, lightly grease the lugs and put it away. If it needs more, then I will do a handful of strokes with the Flush, then using a NYLON brush, give the barrel 10-15 strokes with the Clean, and maybe use a little bigger brush to remove the carbon ring. From there is a good rinse with the Flush, followed up with iso alcohol to make sure it all gone. From there I scope it to make sure I have all the abrasive out as I think that leaving anything in there is probably a recipe for a bad day. On a side note, using felt pellets to clean out the abrasive is the easiest way Ive found. I will also add, I dont expect the barrel to be 100% clean, as I just dont think its necessary in the grand scheme because Im not a good enough shot to tell the difference.
As far as levels of abrasive? I honestly dont know, but I do know Iosso is far less abrasive than blue JB. You can feel the difference between your finger tips. I do believe the red JB is finer, but not as fine as Iosso.
Guys have been using abrasives for decades to clean barrels. You dont hear about the 10s of thousands of barrels that have been successfully maintained with an abrasive but ONLY WHEN ITS NEEDED by guys that make a living shooting at the highest levels. I will never advocate for using abrasives every time out as thats just asking for problems. You WILL hear about the idiots that messed their barrels up, complain about it and expect the manufacturer to replace it at no charge.
Can you destroy a barrel with abrasive? Damn right you can. Ive done it, more or less intentionally. I bought a 6 Grendel barrel from a fairly well known manufacturer, and they had issues with the gas port location, they drilled thru the lands, and the port was absolutely jagged so it was cheese gratering every bullet. I have pics somewhere, it was terrible. They argued with me about it, until I sent them photos of my gas block and bolt soaking in copper remover that was absolutely dark blue due to the gun getting fed copper as well as pics from another AR that was at about 10k rounds fired that looked better. They agreed to make me a new barrel. The new one was just actually worse. The throat was way to tight, causing pressure issues with just above starting powder charge. At this point I had nothing to lose, so I busted out the blue JB and tried to polish the poorly cut gas port down which by the way is a losing proposition. I probably did at least 250 strokes and it did help the port but only slightly. It still cut bullets, and now it coppered up worse than a factory Savage barrel. I cut my losses at this point, swallowed my pride and ordered a new barrel from McGowan which was less expensive and only took them 60 days to get to me and it actually shoots. I turned the problem child into a $500 paper towel holder on my workbench. So what Frank is saying is 100% correct. I played the role of the ham handed idiot, and proved you can ruin a barrel with abrasives.
Dude, you are sounding more and more like a shill.
Good old Sayre's law at work.
Paraphrasing here: “The lower the stakes, the more vicious the argument.”
Paraphrasing here: “The lower the stakes, the more vicious the argument.”
Bias is what I just saw in your reply. Cool do you love the stuff, Great, your toys, your process. Frank passes on his experience with abrasive cleaners and if you and your crack lickers read what he said it was far more than just a couple of moss covered jerks. You have your evidence that it is harmless but effective, wonderful. He is also free to pass judgement on the use of metal brushes and abrasive cleaners. He has as much, actually a much broader set, of experiences and example than you. We are free to do with our toys as we see fit and discuss it. You seem determined to gain approval for you product or kill every dissenting voice, well, stick it and twirl.
Iosso is abrasive shit!
Recently had a friend turn down a barrel stub for a new insert in my full form die for my smokeless muzzleloader. Adjustable full form die cuts the rifling into the bullet as well as sizing the OD of the bullet.
The guy didn’t put quite enough leade into the barrel insert so the bullet was hard to start into the die and was chewing the bullets up pretty bad. Talking small slithers of copper jackets every time I sized a bullet.
It took 10 bullets, 5 passes each, coated with Iosso to smooth out the leade in and getting the die to work properly. Night and day difference before Iosso and after.
I have talked to Mark and Frank from Bartlein, very appreciative of them taking time out of their busy day to answer questions from someone they couldn’t have known was a customer. Mark told me how he trashed possibly the best barrel he has ever had with abrasives. Both iterated, if you are going to use abrasives, use sparingly and absolutely no brushes.
Another well known smith, has said you can change your touch point with minimal use of abrasives, and you are basically taking the sharp edges off the lands and throwing away accuracy over the life of the barrel. If you have a barrel that shoots in the 0’s and low 1’s you want to prolong the life of that barrel as long as possible, because they all don’t shoot like that! This guy is making his living off replacing barrels so he isn’t doing himself any favors divulging that kind of info.
Another guy claims his touch point isn’t moving using Thorroclean and he monitors it religiously, no brushes.
I despise cleaning and want to grab an abrasive every time I scope the barrel and see hard carbon in the corners of the grooves. I don’t because I know how easy Iosso gets rid of the hard baked on carbon that other well known solvents won’t touch. If it takes a barrel down to new looking with minimal effort I have to question how good it is for the barrel over the long run.
Thorroclean looks like the real deal and I am pleased to see someone post an accuracy and cleaning report with actual pictures and hope the OP follows up as the life of the barrel progresses. I for one am always looking for something better and faster when it comes to cleaning.
Recently had a friend turn down a barrel stub for a new insert in my full form die for my smokeless muzzleloader. Adjustable full form die cuts the rifling into the bullet as well as sizing the OD of the bullet.
The guy didn’t put quite enough leade into the barrel insert so the bullet was hard to start into the die and was chewing the bullets up pretty bad. Talking small slithers of copper jackets every time I sized a bullet.
It took 10 bullets, 5 passes each, coated with Iosso to smooth out the leade in and getting the die to work properly. Night and day difference before Iosso and after.
I have talked to Mark and Frank from Bartlein, very appreciative of them taking time out of their busy day to answer questions from someone they couldn’t have known was a customer. Mark told me how he trashed possibly the best barrel he has ever had with abrasives. Both iterated, if you are going to use abrasives, use sparingly and absolutely no brushes.
Another well known smith, has said you can change your touch point with minimal use of abrasives, and you are basically taking the sharp edges off the lands and throwing away accuracy over the life of the barrel. If you have a barrel that shoots in the 0’s and low 1’s you want to prolong the life of that barrel as long as possible, because they all don’t shoot like that! This guy is making his living off replacing barrels so he isn’t doing himself any favors divulging that kind of info.
Another guy claims his touch point isn’t moving using Thorroclean and he monitors it religiously, no brushes.
I despise cleaning and want to grab an abrasive every time I scope the barrel and see hard carbon in the corners of the grooves. I don’t because I know how easy Iosso gets rid of the hard baked on carbon that other well known solvents won’t touch. If it takes a barrel down to new looking with minimal effort I have to question how good it is for the barrel over the long run.
Thorroclean looks like the real deal and I am pleased to see someone post an accuracy and cleaning report with actual pictures and hope the OP follows up as the life of the barrel progresses. I for one am always looking for something better and faster when it comes to cleaning.
Try this experiment:
Clean your barrel the way you normally do with the Thorroclean system, bore scope your barrel to confirm you have removed all carbon/copper then use some more Thorroclean like you normally would for a fouled barrel and then push a patch through.
What do you think all that black is if all carbon has already been removed?
Clean your barrel the way you normally do with the Thorroclean system, bore scope your barrel to confirm you have removed all carbon/copper then use some more Thorroclean like you normally would for a fouled barrel and then push a patch through.
What do you think all that black is if all carbon has already been removed?
It reminds me of the thread on structured barrels. It hasn't got to the point of Bear Pit yet as there is no profanity.
Sorry, but this ^^ is just dumb. “Human worship”? GTFO
It appears the sauce wore off as of post #122. A good thing if you’d like to continue posting in the technical forums, I’m guessing. Just ask DbD.
You were just fine up to the point of post #100, where you accused Frank of “ratfucking” abrasive manuf., for Pete’s sake.
Rat. Fucking.
You are apparently a grown-ass man…
At post #100 and afterwards, you’re just relying on weak @DeathBeforeDismount-level* comebacks, using zero tact. It seems you really don’t like it if people don’t automatically take you as seriously as an actual high-end barrel manufacturer.
Heck, I don’t have a solid opinion on the matter you’re discussing, other than someone with pretty impeccable credentials suggests to not to combine brushes with abrasives (but Frank is ok with occasional use of abrasives with patches).
Perhaps you are right. Maybe you are wrong.
But rhetorical style matters. Street cred, like Frank has, matters. Coolheadedness matters.
You’re off to a poor start.
*I actually like @DeathBeforeDismount because if one ignores the insults, he sometimes provides useful information and is sometimes right. Like most of us.
Except bow kills/bench press/concrete-bruh @Buddly. He’s never right. Lol
DbD, too, is overly sensitive to challenges to his authority/knowledge, but he can sometimes control himself.
I think he’s getting better, slowly. We all have our demons.
It’s hard for some to acknowledge someone like DbD (and now, you) is right if the manner in which they present the info is distasteful.
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You guys really over think things don’t you.
At the end of each shooting session take 1 cartridge, coat the projectile in red JB paste, shoot it.
Patch out the carbon with CLR and done.
At the end of each shooting session take 1 cartridge, coat the projectile in red JB paste, shoot it.
Patch out the carbon with CLR and done.
I've used ThorroClean for the last 2 seasons and have had good results with it.
I typically don't use it with every cleaning regiment. Maybe every 2-4 matches (clean with BoreTech), then ThorroClean.
I use an oversized Iosso brush (6.5 for 6mm, 7mm fo 6.5, etc) and follow the directions.
My results have been good. I usually do about 30-40 passes, then flush out with the liquid ThorroClean, followed by a few patches of BoreTech C4 until dry.
This is my experience only. So far, I'm pleased with the cleaning aspect of ThorroClean.
I typically don't use it with every cleaning regiment. Maybe every 2-4 matches (clean with BoreTech), then ThorroClean.
I use an oversized Iosso brush (6.5 for 6mm, 7mm fo 6.5, etc) and follow the directions.
My results have been good. I usually do about 30-40 passes, then flush out with the liquid ThorroClean, followed by a few patches of BoreTech C4 until dry.
This is my experience only. So far, I'm pleased with the cleaning aspect of ThorroClean.
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