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I've shot nearly 300 rounds of PPU 168gr HPBT match ammo and have come to the conclusion that my rifle just doesn't like it. I thought a lot of it was me causing problems, but finally got in 200 rounds of FGMM 168gr and it loves it.
Trying to find a good sub-moa practice ammo @ 100 yards, just so I can practice drills, and not cost myself $1/rnd on FGMM. Anything you guys find in the ~50-60c range that your T3X .308 likes?
Trying to find a good sub-moa practice ammo @ 100 yards, just so I can practice drills, and not cost myself $1/rnd on FGMM. Anything you guys find in the ~50-60c range that your T3X .308 likes?
Hey all, I'm new to the forums but have been lurking for a while. I was planning on waiting until next year to pick up a bolt gun but found a never-used 20" Tikka CTR in .308 at my local gun shop at an exceptional price. I also scored a really good deal on an (Gen 1) Atlas Cronus with the APLR reticle. This rifle is intended to perform double-duty as a learning platform and also for light hunting.
I'm aware that the factory rail on the CTR is not 20 MOA, but I also don't plan on shooting beyond 600 yards for quite some time. Would it be worthwhile to go ahead and change out the rail for a 20 MOA rail? Secondly, what would be the best scope ring set for the Cronus and CTR? I've saved a lot of money just by purchasing the glass and rifle second hand, so I can splurge a little more on the rings, but I would like to keep it under $200.
I'm also looking at having Tikka dropped into a KRG Bravo chassis. Would that be a worthwhile upgrade or should I stick with the factory stock until I have a few thousand rounds through the barrel?
I'm aware that the factory rail on the CTR is not 20 MOA, but I also don't plan on shooting beyond 600 yards for quite some time. Would it be worthwhile to go ahead and change out the rail for a 20 MOA rail? Secondly, what would be the best scope ring set for the Cronus and CTR? I've saved a lot of money just by purchasing the glass and rifle second hand, so I can splurge a little more on the rings, but I would like to keep it under $200.
I'm also looking at having Tikka dropped into a KRG Bravo chassis. Would that be a worthwhile upgrade or should I stick with the factory stock until I have a few thousand rounds through the barrel?
Leave the OEM rail alone right now, it’s easy to change later.
MDT Premier rings are good quality for less than $100.
Put that $100 that you budgeted for the rail towards Ammo, A new chassis, magazines, trigger ( or Yo Dave spring if you like a single stage trigger ), bolt handle / knob.
Trigger time is more important than parts at this stage of the game.
MDT Premier rings are good quality for less than $100.
Put that $100 that you budgeted for the rail towards Ammo, A new chassis, magazines, trigger ( or Yo Dave spring if you like a single stage trigger ), bolt handle / knob.
Trigger time is more important than parts at this stage of the game.
And see how you like the stock stock, before spending on a chassis.
Thanks for the feedback. The MDT rings look good to go. What height would you suggest for the Cronus optic? The research I've done indicate that, given the size of the objective lens, a 1.25" mounting height would be most appropriate. I'll also budget toward that Sterk bolt handle and shroud.
What would be the advantage of sticking with the CTR mags over a more conventional AI style mag? I would imagine the CTR mags feed clean and are more reliable? The $85 price point on Tikka mags is a little bit of a turn-off, but I think it's preferable to stick with the factory mags if there's a compelling reason to do so.
Also, Sterk shroud and bolt-handle look great. Would I be picking up the Gen 2 titanium shroud and the swept ball-handle? Looks like they're hella sold out everywhere though.
I'll probably be putting in an order today for a KRG Bravo stock if only because I have Gumby-like proportions and the adjustability offered by the chassis is going to be a must.
Thank you all for the feedback. This is extremely helpful.
Thanks for the feedback. The MDT rings look good to go. What height would you suggest for the Cronus optic? The research I've done indicate that, given the size of the objective lens, a 1.25" mounting height would be most appropriate. I'll also budget toward that Sterk bolt handle and shroud.
What would be the advantage of sticking with the CTR mags over a more conventional AI style mag? I would imagine the CTR mags feed clean and are more reliable? The $85 price point on Tikka mags is a little bit of a turn-off, but I think it's preferable to stick with the factory mags if there's a compelling reason to do so.
Also, Sterk shroud and bolt-handle look great. Would I be picking up the Gen 2 titanium shroud and the swept ball-handle? Looks like they're hella sold out everywhere though.
I'll probably be putting in an order today for a KRG Bravo stock if only because I have Gumby-like proportions and the adjustability offered by the chassis is going to be a must.
Thank you all for the feedback. This is extremely helpful.
I was in the exact same boat as you... except I didn't know about buying used and ended up buying everything new ~ 10% off. Ended up with the Athlon Ares ETR instead of the Cronus, couldn't swing the extra $400 for the Cronus. The ETR is 2.5" objective diameter, and the Cronus is 2.6"? I know then Gen 2 is.
I have 1" rings, and the scope is almost touching the barrel with the scope caps on... if I end up switching to a pure bull barrel I'd probably need higher rings, so yeh I'd suggest you going 1.1" rings. Vortex PMR has 1.1" rings. I have seekins 1" rings which I really like, but they don't make a 1.1.
I put my rifle in a Bravo. I couldn't get enough cheek rise out of the CTR stock...
It's now in a Bravo, swept back handle, seekins 1" rings.
The CTR mags are nicer than the AICS mags a few ways. #1, the CTR 10 rounder double stack is still a bit shorter than the MDT double stack mags. Feeding, once my AICS mag was broken in was fine, at first it was hard to load that 10th round in, and it was also a bit of effort to load the first round. Once broken in everything was great. The CTR mags were smooth right off the bat. But I wanted the Bravo, and didn't want to wait another 3 months for them to build a CTR inlet. Sold the CTR Inlet, Magazine for $150 to pay off some of the cost off the Bravo and AICS mags.
The Sterk swept back handle is very nice. A huge upgrade for my Tikka T1X which had the crappy small metal knob. The CTR knob, to be very honest isn't bad. In terms of spending $100, there would be other things I possibly would buy first. The titanium shroud, has zero performance benefits so I didn't get that... maybe one day I'll spend some more $ for improved looks, but it didn't do anything functionally for me getting better as a shooter.
Other things...
- Limb Saver Air Recoil Pad... the T3X one fit my bravo. I had to double up on the little spacers to have the screw fit tight, but it worked.
- Hellfire 419 Brake... it's great, but after learning how to get behind the rifle properly and have it recoil straight back, I can shoot with or without it. With it, the recoil is barely noticeble. A lot of prone matches around here don't allow me to have a brake, so I've been doing it on/off.
- I had a 1lb using yodave, or tikka performance spring (it's just a spring, $10 from like 4 different vendors. I used Elay Precision). I then wanted to try out 2-stage, so bought a Timney Tikka trigger on sale, and have it 0.5lb stage 1, and 1lb total break, and I enjoy shooting my 2-stage more.
- Bipod, not good enough to really tell the difference between Atlas, Harris, Cheapo bipod. I can admire the quality difference, Atlas is definitely a whole lot nicer built, but they all take my load fine when in prone, and I haven't done many PRS where I need fancy spiked legs yet, I'm sure one day I'll start really enjoying the bipod more.
- Rear bag. They're not all created equal. After 2 relatively cheap rear bags, I splurged on a Precision Underground ELR bag $50. HUGE difference... I love that thing. That'd probably be my first purchased upgrade
+1 on not needing 20moa rail upgrade. With your Cronus, you'll be 12mil dialed for 1000 yards at a 100 yard zero. I have 15mil left on my Ares ETR with my 100 yard zero, so I should be fine reaching 1000 w/o holdovers.
Thank you for the detailed response! You answered all of my questions and then some. That's a great looking rifle and the setup looks very functional.
Little update on my T3 LH shorty build. Finally got my Grayboe Terrain stock in (after 4 month wait). Tikka T3 action inlet, CTR DBM inlet, Sendero barrel channel, finished in gray w/black web.
I like the Grayboe stock. It feels light, is well finished, everything fits nice and snug, the flush cups are nice. Grip and cheek weld will fit me nicely I think.
Have the action with A419 20MOA rail, CTR DBM, Mountain Tactical bolt stop (to convert to short action) metal shroud, and trigger spring. Have my optic ready (Steiner PXi 4-16), now just waiting on my 17” 6.5CM CarbonSix barrel.... should only be a couple more weeks on that one.
I like the Grayboe stock. It feels light, is well finished, everything fits nice and snug, the flush cups are nice. Grip and cheek weld will fit me nicely I think.
Have the action with A419 20MOA rail, CTR DBM, Mountain Tactical bolt stop (to convert to short action) metal shroud, and trigger spring. Have my optic ready (Steiner PXi 4-16), now just waiting on my 17” 6.5CM CarbonSix barrel.... should only be a couple more weeks on that one.
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For your viewing pleasure. Tikka T3x 300 win mag - Manners T4, Mountain Tactical bottom metal, Murphy Precision 20 moa rail, Bartlein bull sporter 1/10 twist (#4 I think?), Sterk bolt handle and shroud, and Remington style recoil lug. Didn't really know what I was getting myself into when I decided to buy a Tikka in 300WM w/ the magazine limitations and 1/11 twist rate so I just went all out. The bottom metal allows me to use an AICS style magazine (Accurate Mag) that will hold a round chambered up to around 3.7" COAL, but required a slight trimming of the trigger housing and notching the feed ramp. The different colored stock is a grayboe terrain I had to ditch because the LOP wasn't enough for me. Might get Manners to install an adjustable cheek piece like they have on their CS2 stock. Just getting to the point where accuracy is starting to improve after breaking it in, have not handloaded for it yet but getting around 3/4" 5 round groups w/ factory Nosler 190 grain ammo (tighter groups shooting just 3 rounds). Doesn't seem to like Hornady 200 gr ELDX as much, those are closer to 1" groups. I do have a box of Hornady's 200gr eldx bullets, and I measure an OAL of around 3.65" to the lands so factory ammo is jumping quite a bit. Bought some berger 215 grain factory loaded ammo to test as well as Nosler's match grade 210 gr so testing to resume once those arrive. Initial impressions are good though the magazine has slop/play I don't care for and need to figure out if I can tighten it up. Looks good at least!
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You’re a savage dude. That gun is awesome. The 215 grain Berger ammo shoots awesome out of my Desert Tech (SAC chambered Bartlein Barrel). It seems like great stuff.
Went out this weekend and did more shooting 100/200. Verified my Tikka T3X 308 absolutely loves FGMM 168gr. It does not like PPU 168gr, where I'd get random flyers by .5-1", not as bad as I've seen some other people talk about their rifles hating ammo and making 3" flyers. I've consistently shot 1" with PPU, but 1/2" with FGMM.
Question -- anyone have experience with the Australian Outback ammo? 168gr SMK, I've heard it's very, very similar in performance to FGMM. I see they go on sale for every month or so for a good deal cheaper than FGMM. I bought a few hundred rounds to test, didn't want to double pay shipping cost, so hopefully it works out (fingers crossed).
Question -- anyone have experience with the Australian Outback ammo? 168gr SMK, I've heard it's very, very similar in performance to FGMM. I see they go on sale for every month or so for a good deal cheaper than FGMM. I bought a few hundred rounds to test, didn't want to double pay shipping cost, so hopefully it works out (fingers crossed).
I have had terriable luck with the PPU 308 ammo. A friend and I went out to zero his rifle. We would get one shot to hit the bullseye and the next wouldn’t even be on paper. We though it was his scope mount or rifle at first. On a whim I gave him some of my reloads and all the sudden the rifle was shooting sub MOA. I took the PPU ammo home and pulled the bullets to see if I could figure out what was going on and to just reload the brass. The necks were crimped so hard that they had crushed the bullets. There was also a huge variation in the powder weight. I believe it was close to 3 grains of powder variance across 10 round. That is a huge variation. I was seeing huge velocity variations on my chronograph but figured the numbers must be wrong. I was seeing something around 150 FPS swing in velocity between a few rounds. I’m guessing these were the last rounds loaded on Friday before a long weekend but that ruined my confidence in PPU 308 ammo.
You should give Spark munitions a try. They are $49 for 50 rounds. On top of that it comes loaded with Tipped SMK bullets and in Peterson brass now I believe. If you don’t reload you can sell your once fired brass in the PX and recoupe a good portion of the cost. It is probably the best factory ammo I have shot. Honestly the 308 ammo shot just as good as my hand loads and the 6.5 Creedmoor was pretty close. The velocities I was getting with it were fantastic too.
You should give Spark munitions a try. They are $49 for 50 rounds. On top of that it comes loaded with Tipped SMK bullets and in Peterson brass now I believe. If you don’t reload you can sell your once fired brass in the PX and recoupe a good portion of the cost. It is probably the best factory ammo I have shot. Honestly the 308 ammo shot just as good as my hand loads and the 6.5 Creedmoor was pretty close. The velocities I was getting with it were fantastic too.
Nice work! That looks very tidy on the notching of the feed ramp. Do you have any more photos of the area in front of the trigger? I've been thinking about putting together a 300 PRC and If these mods give enough room for close to a 3.7" OAL it's looking like a Tikka will be the go.
Thanks! Well luckily I hit a few sales during July 4th, and I managed to snag 280 rounds of FGMM for about 85c shipped. It was $16 a box before shipping costs. So far I've been at 0.5 moa at 100, and 200 which is far as my range goes. I'm going to take it out to 500 at an f-class prone competition in a few weeks. First time shooting > 200 so it'll be fun to sight in (I get 2 sighters, then 10 scorers lol).
I haven't taken the PPU apart, or chrono'd it, but my first 340 rounds I kept wondering WTF I was doing wrong. I'd try to follow all my fundamentals, npoa, parallax, breathing, trigger pull, pull the trigger and it would go 1/2 inch left, up right, or down. And I'd be like WTF did I do wrong. 1/2 inch deviation isn't horrible... nothing like your experience. So I'm getting basically .7-1" inch 5 shot groups with it. Not bad for I guess 70c a round. My last 60 rounds I'll let my fiance shoot
since she's still trying to get unscared of the 308... she's barely doing 6" groups, whereas she's able to do 2" on the 22.With FGMM, every miss I can account for. Like where I saw the reticle, every miss I know it was me, and that is so great for understanding what I did wrong, versus some random unknown I couldn't figure out. If I feel off, it'll shoot off. Where as even with the PPU if I might've shifted 1/2 inch due to improper fundamental, it might shoot bullseye, and then I'd wonder hmm....
So my googling around, so far the 4 accounts I saw on the Aussie ammo, said it's on par as FGMM, so fingers crossed I ordered 600 rounds at $12.50 a box, and ordered 2 boxes of 165gr Game King at $13.50 a box incase I wanted to go hunting... we'll see. Even if it's bad, it's still cheaper than PPU, and I can practice positional shooting with it. If it does end up shooting equally as well as FGMM I'll probably order another 1000....
Unfortunately that's all I took, and I'm not apt to pull the bottom metal off and change any of the torque settings my gunsmith set. I'll see if I can take a better photo but check out the manufacturer's video on youtube and scroll to about 8 minutes in where they explain the process. Now I have to inform you, I like my rifle, but I dumped a ton of money into it. In fact, I bought the thing before I realized the limiting factors of the 300wm in a tikka platform. Many other tikka lovers would disagree with my sentiment, but I would not do it again - I'd much rather pony a few more hundred for a custom action. This is my feeling on a large caliber rifle like the 300wm only, I think a short action tikka build is absolutely worth it. The reason being, my magazine is sloppy and as you noticed, I had to trim parts of the action down to make the modification work properly. I contacted Mountain Tactical about this once and their disclaimer was that this kit was meant for a factory tikka stock. If you try to find this bottom metal on Mountain Tactical's website, you'll be sorely disappointed as it doesn't appear to be for sale anymore for reasons unknown to me. It was a fun project, but it's an uncomfortable feeling to have a limited number of options to really get the most out of your rifle.
Thanks for the extra info. I have a machine shop so it's not an issue around getting the work done by someone else. Being in Australia and left handed kind of limits the availability of actions to easily build on. I make my own stocks so I can fit the magazine wherever it needs to be, just seeing the magic 3.7" number pop up has got the brain ticking over, I might knock up a dummy round and have a bit of a play.
Awesome man, I’m sure that’ll help get things figured out and you won’t spend half the money on gunsmithing. I need to take my rifle back to my gunsmith to get this magazine slop figured out and I think it’ll be gtg. The other thing is is the mountain tactical mag release spring (at least the one in mine) was pretty weak and I had to get a stiffer spring for it. Recoil would cause the mag to drop. Anyway good luck, would love to see you work something upThanks for the extra info. I have a machine shop so it's not an issue around getting the work done by someone else. Being in Australia and left handed kind of limits the availability of actions to easily build on. I make my own stocks so I can fit the magazine wherever it needs to be, just seeing the magic 3.7" number pop up has got the brain ticking over, I might knock up a dummy round and have a bit of a play.
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We fit Atlasworx LA T3 mag systems. They are not made for a particular stock which has it's good point because the 300wm is a bit tricky. The angle & position must be just right. No need to mill off the trigger housing. I think the trick with the little cut out in the front of the action is the way to go.
Best is to bed action first then free float bottom metal with mag inserted into it's natural position sitting in the action … and bed bottom metal in that position.
edi
Best is to bed action first then free float bottom metal with mag inserted into it's natural position sitting in the action … and bed bottom metal in that position.
edi
Got a new stock for my T3 PVA barreled 22-250, my photo skills suck so please bear with me. Vortex HST 4-16, mountain tactical bottom metal, timney two stage trigger. German gun stock.
Tikka T3 .223, timney two stage 
trigger, vortex HST 4-16, mountain tactical bottom metal. Mcmillan hunter edge stock.
trigger, vortex HST 4-16, mountain tactical bottom metal. Mcmillan hunter edge stock.Tikka T3X CTR, MDT LSS-XL, 6.5CM, Stock trigger with yo dave spring. Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 5-25x50 FFP, PVA brake
Ok gents. Finally got my stock from Iota.
I present the Kremlin.
12.5” length of pull for my short arms
YMMV
I present the Kremlin.
12.5” length of pull for my short arms
YMMV
Looks great. How do you like it? How does it compare to EH1 or like?
It feels good on a bench and prone. I’ll be shooting it as soon as tomorrow. I’ll take some photos and let y’all know what it compares to.
@HolyCity73
Which stock was that? An extra for the reduced LOP? I have the same LOP, wondering for reference.
Which stock was that? An extra for the reduced LOP? I have the same LOP, wondering for reference.
That’s the Kremlin. They charged me $30 with a pad. Best price I’ve ever paid for a lop reduction with a pad. They did a stellar job.
They took the bottom metal off of the website because they are doing a re-design after getting feedback from me and a few other PRS shooters. The bottom metal before this new generation had the action bolt mounting holes deepened and the magwell re-cut for ARC mags. They put the disclaimer there because they can't control the tolerances from aftermarket stock companies ( I have a McMillan A5 that took quite a bit of modification to get the bottom metal to work right). Not sure what they have in store for the newest generation, we will see once it is released.
Hi everyone,
I'm looking to buy a used Tikka Tactical 300 win. I just love them. Any feed back would be great.
Thanks again
I'm looking to buy a used Tikka Tactical 300 win. I just love them. Any feed back would be great.
Thanks again
I received my 215gr Berger ammo recently and it comes loaded at a COAL of 3.6" as advertised. I took my calibers out and started measuring things. With my feedramp notched, the ammo is able to load properly but I don't think there's much room left. I realized I may have misquoted some information - the internal box dimensions on my accurate mag AICS magazine are at about 3.64" w/ an OD of 3.715", so that ammo just fits. I am also not sure if these 215s are pushing up into the lands - I took my hornady oal guage and the hollowed out cartridge and w/ the hornady 200 grain eldx bullets, was touching lands at ~3.58". These berger bullets are .02" longer than what the hornadys allow me but I'm not sure how the ogive plays into this so I might be ok.
Regarding Mtn Tactical's update, would love to see what they come out with. Tried posting a video of the wobble but I don't think the website allows the file type.
Regarding Mtn Tactical's update, would love to see what they come out with. Tried posting a video of the wobble but I don't think the website allows the file type.
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Took some screenshots of the video at each extreme left to right. Hard to tell how much this thing swings but it's not insignificant. I use a very reputable gunsmith and have little doubt this was user error. The trigger guard creates an optical illusion, the bottom metal is very much centered in the stock without any weird inletting.
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Updates.
Sterk
...SNIP...
Have you ever used the RDS above the scope? Does it have enough adjustment to compensate for height over bore?
I've seen this done on Mk12's and the likes of which but never on a bolt gun! Gives me excuses to go spend money.
Have you ever used the RDS above the scope? Does it have enough adjustment to compensate for height over bore?
I've seen this done on Mk12's and the likes of which but never on a bolt gun! Gives me excuses to go spend money.
It's not for direct fire, at least that's not what I use it for. I have it aligned with a 5-600m impact to help me get on target at a match faster. Basically move the red dot onto the target then drop into the scope and the target is in the view. No fiddling with zoom to switch between targets.
Have you ever used the RDS above the scope? Does it have enough adjustment to compensate for height over bore?
I've seen this done on Mk12's and the likes of which but never on a bolt gun! Gives me excuses to go spend money.
I use red dot only for short range shooting, if i need to do it quick, but mostly i dont use it.
Just got back from the range after getting in the Australian Outback Ammo for my T3X CTR .308. It's 168gr SMK bullets with ADI brass. Good news! Performs as well if not better than FGMM! Had my tightest groups ever with a .25" and a .4" group @ 100 yards.
So that's actually 2 different loads. Up until recently my match load was 140gr ELD-M, 42.5gr of H4350, CCI BR-2 Primers, at 2.825 COAL (first image)
Once I hit 1,500 I noticed my throat grew quite a bit and accuracy went to shit so I redid my ladder test. Images 2 and 3 are 41.5 gr of H4350 at a COAL of 2.900" which put me 0.030 off the lands due to throat erosion. I've since opted to pull the barrel off and it's actually at a smith getting a Benchmark put on as we speak.
Yeah, Hornady brass. I think my SD/ES would improve if I used higher quality brass, but for PRS matches Hornady seems to work just fine.
